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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 21:44 NHY wrote:
People need to stop saying "Naniwa earned Code S spot."
No he did not.
MLG Providence had no Code S seed. In case you didn't notice, there weren't GSL invites or Code A seeds either.
I know some casters were saying thing like that, which is why many people are confused.
He was, however, going be one of 2 foreigners invited for Code S.
Now, GOM has 'uninvited' him.
As it stands, Naniwa can still qualify for Code A like everyone else (*cough* Jinro *cough*)
You know I totally overlooked this. Looked it up on Liquipedia and you're right, there were no GSL invites for Providence and no one was awarded Code A seeds, so it seems like everyone missed this and just assumed Naniwa won a Code S seed.
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Well i just thought that:
- If Naniwa did most stupid thing in situation he found himself vs Nestea match
- GOMTv just made most stupid decision they could to punish Naniwa. If they really need to punish him there was at least dozens of better and more respectfull decisions.
Also to add Mr.Chae is a money loving monkey who just invited Idra based on his popularity to Code S. Not on his performance results (No offense to Idra - but lets be honest he did not perform well in past month)
User was temp banned for this post.
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How dares GOM revoke the free invite they were considering giving to the guy. How unfair of them.
/sarcasm
The guy friggin says the biggest invite tournament of the year 'is just another chance to win some money' for him, throws a game - no matter how meaningless it was - and you whine about him not getting a FREE PASS into the next season? Yeah, clearly GOM.tv is stupid.
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Regardless of whether you think he violated the rule or not, and based on him pattern of actions it was clear that Naniwa had this coming. If he was not banned for this specific instance he would have be banned for something else at some point.
Along the same lines, what his intentions are / whether he is really a nice guy or not are irreverent until he can consistently display a base level of professionalism. This is especially pertinent in Korea where the culture exemplifies respect (or lack thereof).
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On December 14 2011 21:55 ImperialTea wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:41 Ghanburighan wrote:On December 14 2011 21:36 boxturtle wrote:
Completely justified. If he can't show respect for the money fans paid to see these matches, in the format they were set out, he doesn't deserve his invited spot. I always stayed up late to watch GSL, but that will now change. The anti-GOM reactions have prompted me to show my support by buying a ticket.
This was a player's blatant disregard and complete flouting for the rules coming back to bite him in the butt. Nothing more, nothing less. It's also absurd that the format should be "bad" now, and no one pointed this out before. If someone had pointed this out, people probably would have found a justification for this format such as "hey these are the best players in the world and GOM's going to give us more matches, including the Naniwa v Nestea centerpiece."
The people using sports comparisons to support Nani are way off base. If you paid money for a season ticket and watched a game where a team sat down on the field because the match "didn't matter" would you think it was "funny?"
If anyone thinks that refusing to buy a GSL ticket because of this action alone will help them prove a point, they can try thinking about what would happen if they did nothing and showed that any match, any anticipated event, could be flouted by an angry player in a bad condition. Athletes don't do this, and if E-sports is going to be anything but a fetish-y footnote in the internet age section of a history book, actions like this are necessary.
I have a feeling that no one that's supporting Nani right now actually bought a ticket.
I hope Mr. Chae reads this (I know he has posted on these forums before) and understands that some people support him, with our wallets as well as our words. Great first post!  I agree with the sentiment, in fact, there are very few forum veterans that seem to be posting in favour of Nani, and that's probably because people that actually compete in tournaments know they themselves wouldn't act like Naniwa did. I completely agree with this post, as well as those saying that it's completely unprofessional. Footballers who sit down and don't play actually have something to complain about, Naniwa didn't.
Also agreeing. Too much nonsense in this thread as is. Need to highlight the better argument.
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On December 14 2011 21:55 Confuzzled wrote:
Well that's completely retarded, and another reason for me to not watch GSL. When IdrA ragequit vs Jinros bunker-wallin and
6pooled in GSL he didn't get shit or anything, but in a game where nothing mattered and Naniwa acted like a child (it was a
dick move but not a huge dick move) it all of a sudden becomes a shitstorm? Don't really know how I feel about GOMs decisionmaking behind this, It'll just impact the scene negatively, a warning would have been better.
idra gave up fast in a game he actually had been trying to win
nani never even tried to give the illusion that he cared about a game these people paid him to play and were televising.
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On December 14 2011 21:56 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:54 careohx wrote:
I wonder which court would this hold in?All he did was do a stupid strategy on paper. I think there is room for legal action maybe Quantic has the balls. what he did was blatantly throw the game
there's no room for legal action, most private companies reserve the rights to do w.e. they want in terms of who they allow to compete.
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Its funny, if he threw the game by cannon rushing none of this would have happened. This is pretty much a HUGE joke.
Kind of ridiculous to be honest.
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United States10660 Posts
On December 14 2011 21:51 Kontys wrote:
Okay, let's look at the whole thing from the perspective of fairness.
1: NaNiWa almost-wins MLG providence, earning CODE S spot, goes back to training for a few weeks and gets an invite to a one-off tournament also hosted by the Gretech.
2: At said tournament he has a bad day losing to two cheeses and another due to the balance issues surrounding terran infantry vs protoss gateway units. He is demoralized, flips and throws the last game, which has no effect on his fate in the tournament.
3: Koreans flip for reasons of etiquette breach.
4: NaNiWa is penalized, under a completely arbitrary decision by the gretech corp boss, by having his earlier EARNED achievement revoked.
Honestly, if you aren't going WHAT THE F* Over this, then you can not call yourself a person of decent values.
An ATHLETE was just robbed of money, face and his greatest career opportunity yet, by a completely arbitrary business decision by a corporate business manager.
I mean, it is completely in line with the forced conformity of Korean culture, where everyone has to conform to strict arbitrary molds thought up by old men in fancy suits.. But this is supposed to be a SPORT and NaNiWa is an ATHLETE. You can make the case that he is an entertainer first and an athlete second, and this is definitely how the Gretech Corporation sees it. But that is not something NaNiWa signed up to. As someone said earlier in this thread: Do you really think he would have done that if he knew it could possibly cost him his code S spot?
How can you people possibly support the case that corporate business interest should be allowed to arbitrarily penalize athletes who don't maximize the entertainment value of their performance?
So you want GOMtv to support his actions? Give him a second chance right? When there are a ton of other players who are able to handle themselves in a proffessional conduct insteald? Ya, fat chance. Not in this world.
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On December 14 2011 21:55 Paladia wrote:
GomTV are the amateurs here; kicking people out they don't like. There has to be some security for players if this tournament is to be taken seriously, they can't just kick out players even if they didn't even break any rules. All he in fact did was a worker rush in a completely unrelated tournament.
Instead they give out free seeds to players like Idra for popularity reasons. Feels like a complete insult to the entire foreign scene and I bet a lot of people will stop watching GomTV because of this.
I don't even like Naniwa much myself but what you say is truth and GomTV totally out-of-line here...
"Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment"
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On December 14 2011 21:56 xBillehx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:44 NHY wrote:
People need to stop saying "Naniwa earned Code S spot."
No he did not.
MLG Providence had no Code S seed. In case you didn't notice, there weren't GSL invites or Code A seeds either.
I know some casters were saying thing like that, which is why many people are confused.
He was, however, going be one of 2 foreigners invited for Code S.
Now, GOM has 'uninvited' him.
As it stands, Naniwa can still qualify for Code A like everyone else (*cough* Jinro *cough*) You know I totally overlooked this. Looked it up on Liquipedia and you're right, there were no GSL invites for Providence and no one was awarded Code A seeds, so it seems like everyone missed this and just assumed Naniwa won a Code S seed.
They would have called us out on it if we were wrong, GOM is trying to clean up their mess after seeing majority of the people think it is not a proportional punishment.
Come on guys you really think he had a chance of not getting the seed?
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Too harsh punishment for a small mistake.
Idra forfeited a MLG match and he wasn't banned from Province. Maybe Naniwa should have forfeited that much too, but that was his only mistake. It shouldn't have cost him the Code S seed.
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I love Naniwa as a player, but in a community where we're trying to become respected as a legitimate sport/business in the mainstream, I think it's important to send a message to players that they need to act with a certain level of professionalism and tact.
In an online world, where players have grown up able to hide behind their computers and act however they want behind a veil of anonymity, it needs to be shown that in a public forum you're not allowed to act like this and that you need to take things seriously.
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I really had hopes that after Artosis said: "Don't get behind the players, get behind the tournament", people would take this piece of advice. Naniwa showed unprofessional behaviour and got punished for it, it's as simple as that.
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Let's look at this from another perspective... What if Naniwa and Nestea played their normal game and Khaldor just refused to cast because the game was 'meaningless'? Don't you think he would have been fired?
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On December 14 2011 21:58 tombola wrote:
I really had hopes that after Artosis said: "Don't get behind the players, get behind the tournament", people would take this piece of advice. Naniwa showed unprofessional behaviour and got punished for it, it's as simple as that.
Yes, fuck the players and don't criticize the tournaments.
On December 14 2011 21:58 vthree wrote:
Let's look at this from another perspective... What if Naniwa and Nestea played their normal game and Khaldor just refused to cast because the game was 'meaningless'? Don't you think he would have been fired?
Doesn't make sense he gets paid for every cast he does.
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On December 14 2011 21:58 tombola wrote:
I really had hopes that after Artosis said: "Don't get behind the players, get behind the tournament", people would take this piece of advice. Naniwa showed unprofessional behaviour and got punished for it, it's as simple as that.
Way to go and misquote Artosis on a completely different matter.
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On December 14 2011 21:56 Larde wrote:
Apparently attacking with probes is abusive behavior lol. I remember what kind of clusterfuck the whole Jinro "fuck" situation was back in Korea, and there was no punishment at all, but if Naniwa attack with probes HOLY SHAIT THE WORLD IS GONNA END.
You must not have watched the game or read the posts. Its not that be probed rushed its that he took his hands off the keyboard and let them die and then after he said he was throwing the game cause it didn't matter.
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GOM tv basically pays the players to produce content for their production. If all Korean players would GG their matches as soon as they were in an unwinnable position lots of games would end 5 minutes earlier than they do, and the production would suffer as many of the viewers wouldn't understand why the game ended. For this reason matches are played out until its obvious who is winning. The proberush was extremly unprofessional for a televised event where you are expected to produce matches for you fans. In any other situation where the match isnt televised or expected to generate income from VODs, this behavior might be accepted. In this case, I think Naniwa is done in the GSL.
To bad, since I love to see him play.
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EPT
