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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 21:52 BackSideAttack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:43 Ace.Xile wrote:On December 14 2011 21:40 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 21:38 semm wrote:
You can really tell how many young people there are in this thread. For the ones saying 'He didn't break any of the official rules!' Listen up: Naniwa is a professional gamer, being in tournaments like the GSL is his JOB. For those of you who have never had a real job let me give you a tip: if you go around disrespecting the business's customers, not showing up for the work and generally having a bad attitude, then when you get called into the boss's office say 'I don't see any rules I broke in the employee handbook!' you will be laughed out of the building and you will get fired I assure you. The ban is completely in keeping with any type of pro-gaming scene that wants to be professional in the least. well said it blows my mind that the argument is basically "he should be allowed to ignore what he said he would do and throw it in the face of everyone watching if he doesn't want to play" 'wah mommy I don't wanna!!!!' grow up This is obnoxious to me. It's the NFL teams job to play games, when it comes down to borderline playoff time NFL teams will take off their 1st string players and place in their 3rd, effectively forfeiting their chances at any serious game (assuming they have won their playoff spot) because their 3rd strings are that much worse than their 1st string. It's exactly what naniwa did, stop being narrow minded. Terrible analogy and here's why. NFL teams do so because there's a highly probable chance for injury that comes with every additional game you play. Look at historical precedence. Even teams with things to win for STILL put in their backups for their final games. Look at the Colts during 2009, they let go of a perfect season because they feared Peyton Manning would get injured. Also factor in that it's a team game. When you let in your backups, you are giving them invaluable game time experience. If something does happen in the playoffs, then your backups are going to be more ready to face the dilemma. Now look at sc2. First it is not a team sport. By forfeiting the game you are not benefiting anyone else. Also there is next to no risk of injury in playing sc2. In 99% of the situations, one game will not cause you to become so injured that you can no longer play in the playoffs.
I think tyler made the general argument of not revealing good gameplans. Guarantee that Naniwa had a set strat for Nestea, there was no point in using it against naniwa in a game that didn't matter so he could find a way around it next time they met for something important.
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On December 14 2011 21:52 NGrNecris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:47 Emnjay808 wrote:On December 14 2011 21:43 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 21:42 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 21:40 Zandar wrote:On December 14 2011 21:39 baoluvboa wrote:
You're an idiot if you think this is a race issue. A korean would have been punished just as much, if not more. They are forcing Korean moral standards upon a foreign player in an international tournament. it's the rules of the tournament Show this rule, please. Show me the rule where it says its okay to throw games. Are you serious?
He hasn't heard yet that by default people are FREE and rules limit their abuse of others freedom, not the other way around. Rules don't tell you what you can do but what you can't do. Unless rule 1 is "You are not allowed to do anything".
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As others have pointed out i believe, in the group stage of code S if the results of who was going to win the group was already known before the final set was played of the losers, they would simply not play it and let them leave. perhaps gom should implement this in other instances or at least change the payoff for getting second to last and last for there to be an incentive for players to play a good game
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GomTV are the amateurs here; kicking people out they don't like. There has to be some security for players if this tournament is to be taken seriously, they can't just kick out players even if they didn't even break any rules. All he in fact did was a worker rush in a completely unrelated tournament.
Instead they give out free seeds to players like Idra for popularity reasons. Feels like a complete insult to the entire foreign scene and I bet a lot of people will stop watching GomTV because of this.
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On December 14 2011 21:53 shadymmj wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:50 oban wrote:
Way too harsh of a punishment. GOM really are amateurs in every way possible and not worthy of hosting internatoinal tournaments. They fucked over Stephano last time when MC seemed to play to have DRG move to the next round. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the issue is racism. yes swedish genius disqualify a misbehaving white dude and invite another white dude to play totally racist
Sen is white? That must mean I'm white too, holy shit
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Meh, too much drama.
My +1 goes to GSL's decision. GSL has too many good matches for me to care too much about one player.
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On December 14 2011 21:54 zanga wrote:
*Ban MC from all the (seemingly FUNNY, previously that is) things he's done. Including Thumbs down, Dancing outside the booth, Waving his finger at the camera.. and many more.
*Ban Bomber for having such a BM game against MC in some MLG (dont remember which). Putting down tons of command centers in the middle of the map, doing an "orange" with 10+ CC Scans and dropping mules so many times over.
*Ban NesTea since in the Blizzcon finals he so obviously threw his game away and was just trolling around.
*Ban Coca for match-fixing. He didnt get disqualified as far as I know - he simply left the spot because of decisions in their team. I can assume GOM would've cared, but so far had theyve said anything?
..more examples?
They didn't ban him from anything.
He was a strong favourite to be wildcard invited, he fucked around and showed shitty attitude. Gom didn't feel like they should wildcard invite someone like him?
Problem?
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Well that's completely retarded, and another reason for me to not watch GSL. When IdrA ragequit vs Jinros bunker-wallin and
6pooled in GSL he didn't get shit or anything, but in a game where nothing mattered and Naniwa acted like a child (it was a
dick move but not a huge dick move) it all of a sudden becomes a shitstorm? Don't really know how I feel about GOMs decisionmaking behind this, It'll just impact the scene negatively, a warning would have been better.
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I think GOMs punishment is their choice and we should respect that. It is their league and they want it to have a certain image.
But to call Nani money grabbing is wrong. He could not be more opposite! If i was to pick one foreign pro gamer who wasnt in it for the money it would be him!
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On December 14 2011 21:41 Ghanburighan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:36 boxturtle wrote:
Completely justified. If he can't show respect for the money fans paid to see these matches, in the format they were set out, he doesn't deserve his invited spot. I always stayed up late to watch GSL, but that will now change. The anti-GOM reactions have prompted me to show my support by buying a ticket.
This was a player's blatant disregard and complete flouting for the rules coming back to bite him in the butt. Nothing more, nothing less. It's also absurd that the format should be "bad" now, and no one pointed this out before. If someone had pointed this out, people probably would have found a justification for this format such as "hey these are the best players in the world and GOM's going to give us more matches, including the Naniwa v Nestea centerpiece."
The people using sports comparisons to support Nani are way off base. If you paid money for a season ticket and watched a game where a team sat down on the field because the match "didn't matter" would you think it was "funny?"
If anyone thinks that refusing to buy a GSL ticket because of this action alone will help them prove a point, they can try thinking about what would happen if they did nothing and showed that any match, any anticipated event, could be flouted by an angry player in a bad condition. Athletes don't do this, and if E-sports is going to be anything but a fetish-y footnote in the internet age section of a history book, actions like this are necessary.
I have a feeling that no one that's supporting Nani right now actually bought a ticket.
I hope Mr. Chae reads this (I know he has posted on these forums before) and understands that some people support him, with our wallets as well as our words. Great first post!  I agree with the sentiment, in fact, there are very few forum veterans that seem to be posting in favour of Nani, and that's probably because people that actually compete in tournaments know they themselves wouldn't act like Naniwa did.
I completely agree with this post, as well as those saying that it's completely unprofessional. Footballers who sit down and don't play actually have something to complain about, Naniwa didn't.
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On December 14 2011 21:54 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:53 jojo311 wrote:
GUYS, you missed a point.
Naniwa was not confirmed for Code S spot. (as MLG Providence had nothing with the Code S spot. )
how is that called revoked??
The truth is just that Nani did not get the spot and he can still qualify GSL for the next season.
HE IS NOT BANNED.
Its the same gosh damn thing getting un-invited for his 'Earned' Code S Spot is essentially the same thing as revoked.
HE did not earn it.
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On December 14 2011 21:53 SedativeDev wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:35 Tommylew wrote:
Idra left Korea to win money in all the tournaments and then Nani mvoes to korea to be a pro gamer and they kick Nani and reinvite Idra and they they call Nani the Moneygrabber??? WTF
HAHA the irony Have to agree with this.
^This.
GOM epic fail.
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On December 14 2011 21:54 careohx wrote:
I wonder which court would this hold in?All he did was do a stupid strategy on paper. I think there is room for legal action maybe Quantic has the balls.
what he did was blatantly throw the game
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Apparently attacking with probes is abusive behavior lol. I remember what kind of clusterfuck the whole Jinro "fuck" situation was back in Korea, and there was no punishment at all, but if Naniwa attack with probes HOLY SHAIT THE WORLD IS GONNA END.
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On December 14 2011 21:53 Hopelessnoob wrote:
i dont understand why people are saying that they payed to watch that...
In most GOM events they would NOT even play that... Would you rather see a proxy 2 gate or a cannon rush or something... It is a useless match. If you played a dollar just to watch that match and he probe rushed, i would agree with you. But it was meaningless and nani was forced to play it and he would NOT play it well
If that match was for seeding, i would say it was unacceptable too.
because it was an eagerly anticipated grudge match? tbh i dont give a shit about either player, but i can fully understand that a lot of people were keen to watch it, even though it probably would not have been completely serious. nestea wanted to play a good game at last for his fans after his embarassing losses. naniwa took that chance away.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50611 Posts
On December 14 2011 21:55 NGrNecris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:53 shadymmj wrote:On December 14 2011 21:50 oban wrote:
Way too harsh of a punishment. GOM really are amateurs in every way possible and not worthy of hosting internatoinal tournaments. They fucked over Stephano last time when MC seemed to play to have DRG move to the next round. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the issue is racism. yes swedish genius disqualify a misbehaving white dude and invite another white dude to play totally racist Sen is white? That must mean I'm white too, holy shit
greg fields.
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Although i understand korean netizen's reactions for the biggest part, i still don't feel naniwa should have his CODE S spot taken from him..
It lacks any form and proportion in my opinion.
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On December 14 2011 21:37 mTw|NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:34 kickinhead wrote:On December 14 2011 21:22 mTw|NarutO wrote:On December 14 2011 21:18 careohx wrote:
Not only this but i also question giving free code S spots for popular players without them having to qualify. At least Naniwa did qualify. He didnt cheat or use any exploit. Korea needs to realize that SC2 is not only theirs like SC1 was and is now a global phenomenon. Things like these do not fly. Fans need to realize its a Korean Product, the GSL. Even if foreigners can play in it, its their league. They run it and talk to sponsors. As mentioned before, a Korean would have suffered a way harsher penalty than that. But do you really want another Institution like KeSpa running the whole e-Sports-World of one game? Do you want a player to get an instant-loss in a very high-profile-game cuz he typed in "pp" instead of "ppp" and paused the game? Do you want the fake-emotions with ridiculous and embarrassing (okay, sometimes also awesome) ceremonies and ban ppl that show true human emotions, like naniwa did? Do you want a System that prides itself with being politically correct, fair and does everything to look shiny in the outside, but on the inside, they basically exploit teenagers and young adults and have 100% control over who is allowed to play, who gets how much money etc.? We need to show GSL right now that this is a direction we won't accept! I've deinstalled GomTV-player and deleted my Bookmarks for GSL until they revoke their decision. I don't care much for GSL atm anyways, cuz it gets upstaged by far by foreign tournaments, which also often have much better quality streams, free VoD's and a more multicultural playing-field. This was just the last straw for me... If it helps eSports to grow and be a profession than yes, bring fucking KeSPa. We need to stop and fuck around if we want eSports to be something globally accepted and not just a fucking nerd time hobby. KeSPa was too harsh in a lot of aspects, but that doesn't mean they were wrong with everything they did. People just fail to realize that KeSPa also did help eSports A LOT and even if I hate the late-days KeSPa and banning for 'g' or 'pp' etc, they certainly did help eSports a lot more than they did harm.
KeSpa are no e-Sports-saints that brought us the joy of SC:BW out of the goodness of their hearts - they are a business. They saw a great investment-opportunity in SC:BW and went for it. Because it was successful, it grew into quite a big thing. If it wasn't for KeSpa, sth. else would've stepped in, cuz lucrative Ideas have a way of finding themselves sm1 that exploits them (in case of KeSpa).
KeSpa was a business that ran with a concept and their business-concept may entail supporting e-Sports, but the way they did this was absolutely horrible. Their way of doing things only worked, cuz they had abslutely no competition and got big enough before ppl realized how bad they really are.
The whole KeSpa business-model was rooted in total control over everything: Who is allowed to play? what is allowed to be shown? who gets the money?
Why? Cuz their whole operation was heavily dependant on Sponsoring and advertisement-deals: Sponsors wanted to be sure that nothing could happen that would shed a bad light on their product, so just like in a well-orchestrated hollywood-movie riddled with product-placement, they had to ensure that they were able to control how their product is perceived and in what context it is shown.
Why is it different in EU/US? Cuz the sponsoring deals are totally different - fast-food and gaming-hard/software. It's also way younger than in Korea on such a big scale, so the sponors probably don't expect as much control and are more aware that thy might take a smaller risk with sponsoring e-Sport-events.
Also, the Korean culture in general has a lot to do with it I guess. For them, Naniwas incident was an attack on his fans and the credibility of their tournament and faced them with the fact that they can't control everything they want. In a western tournament, commentators would've just shook their heads and maybe even joked about it, but would've probably also understood what lead Nani to such an action.
remember when sm1 wrote like "penis" in the chat in the korean TV-Show à la Battle-Net-Attack or sth? They had to stop the show and apologize afterwards and the pro run out of the building crying in utter shock. They just aren't used to stuff like that.... ^^'
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Oooh
Snap
Well, i guess he got what he deserved, didn't he?
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Nania pulling the stupid stunt he did, it was just stupid, he could have easily just tried to cannon rush and the game would have lasted what? An extra minute or so?
He could have AT LEAST used the game as a chance to try a new strat, some super risky all in, I think it could possibly highlight a problem that these foreigners in Korea are somewhat isolated and in need of some more help and advice?
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EPT
