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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 21:49 crowbar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:41 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 21:40 crowbar wrote:
good now i dont have to pay for GSL
thank you gom.
And to add this is what i think naniwa was thinking:
Naniwa wouldnt even be able to bring an entertaining match. His mind was set on forfeit before the match and he forfeited. He saw that the match would not help him towards his goals in any way so he ignored the match and set his mind on the next challenge. that extra 15 minutes really made a huge difference in dealing with the next challenge I'm sure Well it doesnt have to do anything with time at all just the mindset and the ability to move on to the next game and dont let urself be dragged down by some bad games. I just think it was how naniwa handled him moving on to his future goals.
he couldn't move onto the next game, he let the 3 games from before it get into his head enough that he threw the game.
what you're saying makes sense if you're talking about leaving a game where you're behind in a series where you'll have chances to come back, not in this case.
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On December 14 2011 21:40 FaRess wrote:
How hard is it for people to understand "don't bite the hand that feeds you", seriously guys, it's not even about culture, he didn't want to play those games, they asked him to do it and he throw the game. How can people not see the disrespect in here, I'm not from korea and I can easily see it.
If you believe that the punishment is too strong, that's something else and I will tend to agree with you, but saying he did nothing wrong really blows my mind.
Respect is something you need to deserve not expect. Politeness is something you expect. Naniwa was impolite, not disrespectful, because GOM did not deserve any respect by wanting meaningless pretend game immediately after three actual exhausting games that mattered. Of course in many Asian countries politeness is mistakingly considered the same as respect. Naniwa should have known that pretend appearances and not honesty are quite valued in Korea so what he did was not only impolite but also stupid.
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On December 14 2011 21:47 Vari wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:45 ander wrote:On December 14 2011 21:42 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 21:40 Zandar wrote:On December 14 2011 21:39 baoluvboa wrote:
You're an idiot if you think this is a race issue. A korean would have been punished just as much, if not more. They are forcing Korean moral standards upon a foreign player in an international tournament. it's the rules of the tournament and it's a tournament run by koreans in korea. it's international because anyone can participate, that doesn't mean that have to somehow find a standard that is equal parts of every country on earth... that would be psychotic to attempt and never get anywhere. Link me this rule. This is i think the 5th time i've asked you to link me this rule. it's been posted plenty of times in this thread I haven't seen every single post so sorry if it seems like I'm ignoring you. the rule has been posted repeatedly though.
Fair enough, BUT:
The only rules i've seen are basically to the effect of: progamers should act as expected of progamers.
??????????
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Okay, let's look at the whole thing from the perspective of fairness.
1: NaNiWa almost-wins MLG providence, earning CODE S spot, goes back to training for a few weeks and gets an invite to a one-off tournament also hosted by the Gretech.
2: At said tournament he has a bad day losing to two cheeses and another due to the balance issues surrounding terran infantry vs protoss gateway units. He is demoralized, flips and throws the last game, which has no effect on his fate in the tournament.
3: Koreans flip for reasons of etiquette breach.
4: NaNiWa is penalized, under a completely arbitrary decision by the gretech corp boss, by having his earlier EARNED achievement revoked.
Honestly, if you aren't going WHAT THE F* Over this, then you can not call yourself a person of decent values.
An ATHLETE was just robbed of money, face and his greatest career opportunity yet, by a completely arbitrary business decision by a corporate business manager.
I mean, it is completely in line with the forced conformity of Korean culture, where everyone has to conform to strict arbitrary molds thought up by old men in fancy suits.. But this is supposed to be a SPORT and NaNiWa is an ATHLETE. You can make the case that he is an entertainer first and an athlete second, and this is definitely how the Gretech Corporation sees it. But that is not something NaNiWa signed up to. As someone said earlier in this thread: Do you really think he would have done that if he knew it could possibly cost him his code S spot?
How can you people possibly support the case that corporate business interest should be allowed to arbitrarily penalize athletes who don't maximize the entertainment value of their performance?
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lay off him.
who cares, he threw a game, made no difference. I dont see why he should be punished like this. GOM will end up losing in this situation imo.
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On December 14 2011 21:47 Emnjay808 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:43 nimdil wrote:On December 14 2011 21:42 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 21:40 Zandar wrote:On December 14 2011 21:39 baoluvboa wrote:
You're an idiot if you think this is a race issue. A korean would have been punished just as much, if not more. They are forcing Korean moral standards upon a foreign player in an international tournament. it's the rules of the tournament Show this rule, please. Show me the rule where it says its okay to throw games.
Are you serious?
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well, tbh: i don´t appreciate the ban. i would gladly see naniwa perform there. it is an overreaction and the rule quoted is too simply and easily to be abducted.
i´m honestly disappointed.
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On December 14 2011 21:43 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:40 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 21:38 semm wrote:
You can really tell how many young people there are in this thread. For the ones saying 'He didn't break any of the official rules!' Listen up: Naniwa is a professional gamer, being in tournaments like the GSL is his JOB. For those of you who have never had a real job let me give you a tip: if you go around disrespecting the business's customers, not showing up for the work and generally having a bad attitude, then when you get called into the boss's office say 'I don't see any rules I broke in the employee handbook!' you will be laughed out of the building and you will get fired I assure you. The ban is completely in keeping with any type of pro-gaming scene that wants to be professional in the least. well said it blows my mind that the argument is basically "he should be allowed to ignore what he said he would do and throw it in the face of everyone watching if he doesn't want to play" 'wah mommy I don't wanna!!!!' grow up This is obnoxious to me. It's the NFL teams job to play games, when it comes down to borderline playoff time NFL teams will take off their 1st string players and place in their 3rd, effectively forfeiting their chances at any serious game (assuming they have won their playoff spot) because their 3rd strings are that much worse than their 1st string. It's exactly what naniwa did, stop being narrow minded.
Terrible analogy and here's why. NFL teams do so because there's a highly probable chance for injury that comes with every additional game you play. Look at historical precedence. Even teams with things to win for STILL put in their backups for their final games. Look at the Colts during 2009, they let go of a perfect season because they feared Peyton Manning would get injured. Also factor in that it's a team game. When you let in your backups, you are giving them invaluable game time experience. If something does happen in the playoffs, then your backups are going to be more ready to face the dilemma.
Now look at sc2. First it is not a team sport. By forfeiting the game you are not benefiting anyone else. Also there is next to no risk of injury in playing sc2. In 99% of the situations, one game will not cause you to become so injured that you can no longer play in the playoffs.
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There is one major sc2 league in korea and it is pretty much a joke t.t.
First I was upset that they made me watch a silly match in middle of a tournament, and now this.
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On December 14 2011 21:47 pookadin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:44 Psychobabas wrote:On December 14 2011 21:40 pookadin wrote:On December 14 2011 21:38 Psychobabas wrote:
So, can I ask for a refund from GOM or what. So you buy GSL ticket for a player like naniwa? What do you do when he gets kicked out after round 32 every tourney? You just dont watch for 4 weeks? Sounds like a stupid move anyway... Not really, it's just my way of retaliating against GOM by asking for my money back, which I will fully pursue. Of course I would watch all players but in this case, I'll just stick to the free-stream. GOM was wrong and I will ask for a full refund, which should be done due to consumer rights etc etc We shall see. So...you are boycotting GOMTV but you are still going to use the free stream? Whuuuuu? And you people call GOM Hypocrites? Consumer Rights? LOL I think you will promptly find that you are not entitled to anything because GOMTV makes no assurances that assholes wont be kicked out of their league when they act like brats.
I'll find other sites that uploads HQ VOD's and share them amongst my friends instead of paying for HQ pass, just because I'm disgusted by GOMTV doesn't mean I can't enjoy the games.
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On December 14 2011 21:38 semm wrote:
You can really tell how many young people there are in this thread. For the ones saying 'He didn't break any of the official rules!' Listen up: Naniwa is a professional gamer, being in tournaments like the GSL is his JOB. For those of you who have never had a real job let me give you a tip: if you go around disrespecting the business's customers, not showing up for the work and generally having a bad attitude, then when you get called into the boss's office say 'I don't see any rules I broke in the employee handbook!' you will be laughed out of the building and you will get fired I assure you. The ban is completely in keeping with any type of pro-gaming scene that wants to be professional in the least.
And I personally don't like being insulted based on a wrong preconception. I am probably older than you, have a job and mortgage and don't share your view. I don't know what you do for a living that you're so scared of your boss but I have never seen a good employee getting pissed on for small mistakes.
In the end its pretty simple, they said his behaviour was abusive.
The letter and spirit of the rule condemns abuse (yelling, insults, physical violence). At most what Naniwa did was offensive but nowhere near abusive.
Let them add a proper rule and enforce from now on, what they did was trying to cover up the outrage from Korean players (removal of seed, insults, faking he never had a seed etc). It's like they spit in your face then try to sell it as a shower.
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Awesome, people need to see beyond "players play to win" ideology.
Sponsors are funding the tournaments to spread their brand etc....players are to provide what viewers like and enjoy and thus make the cycle complete.
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Probe rushing is abusive according to the rules? What?
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Really bad move on GOM's part. Bullshit if you ask me.
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On December 14 2011 21:51 Kontys wrote:
Okay, let's look at the whole thing from the perspective of fairness.
1: NaNiWa almost-wins MLG providence, earning CODE S spot, goes back to training for a few weeks and gets an invite to a one-off tournament also hosted by the Gretech.
2: At said tournament he has a bad day losing to two cheeses and another due to the balance issues surrounding terran infantry vs protoss gateway units. He is demoralized, flips and throws the last game, which has no effect on his fate in the tournament.
3: Koreans flip for reasons of etiquette breach.
4: NaNiWa is penalized, under a completely arbitrary decision by the gretech corp boss, by having his earlier EARNED achievement revoked.
Honestly, if you aren't going WHAT THE F* Over this, then you can not call yourself a person of decent values.
An ATHLETE was just robbed of money, face and his greatest career opportunity yet, by a completely arbitrary business decision by a corporate business manager.
I mean, it is completely in line with the forced conformity of Korean culture, where everyone has to conform to strict arbitrary molds thought up by old men in fancy suits.. But this is supposed to be a SPORT and NaNiWa is an ATHLETE. You can make the case that he is an entertainer first and an athlete second, and this is definitely how the Gretech Corporation sees it. But that is not something NaNiWa signed up to. As someone said earlier in this thread: Do you really think he would have done that if he knew it could possibly cost him his code S spot?
How can you people possibly support the case that corporate business interest should be allowed to arbitrarily penalize athletes who don't maximize the entertainment value of their performance?
Your first point is already wrong.
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On December 14 2011 21:50 Ace.Xile wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 21:49 turamn wrote:On December 14 2011 21:47 Aydeini wrote:
dumbest move ever, why did he have to play the game in the first place? and now people want him to go all out show his best strategies for nothing? This arguement is so worn out. I have to do things at work or in real life daily that 'don't have a purpose or reward' but guess what, you've still got to do them. IT IS HIS JOB TO PLAY THE GAMES. SHUT UP AND PLAY THEM. it's his job to compete, something that the nestea/naniwa scenario was entirely devoid of? - real competition with substantial rewards
it's his job to play the games
playing the games is a competition. he could be playing you in a custom and it would be competition.
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On December 14 2011 21:47 Aydeini wrote:
dumbest move ever, why did he have to play the game in the first place? and now people want him to go all out show his best strategies for nothing?
no one asked him to show his best strats.
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GUYS, you missed a point.
Naniwa was not confirmed for Code S spot. (as MLG Providence had nothing with the Code S spot. )
how is that called revoked??
The truth is just that Nani did not get the spot and he can still qualify GSL for the next season.
HE IS NOT BANNED.
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On December 14 2011 21:52 DrunkenTemplar wrote:
Probe rushing is abusive according to the rules? What?
throwing a game blatantly
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EPT
