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NaNiwa not invited to Code S - Page 125

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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.

Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
December 14 2011 12:48 GMT
#2481
On December 14 2011 21:47 Galactus52 wrote:
After what happened to CoCa this doesn't really surprise me. I think GOM is wrong though.


His team forced him to resign from Code S, Gom did nothing.
crowbar
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden21 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2482
On December 14 2011 21:41 Vari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:40 crowbar wrote:
good now i dont have to pay for GSL

thank you gom.

And to add this is what i think naniwa was thinking:
Naniwa wouldnt even be able to bring an entertaining match. His mind was set on forfeit before the match and he forfeited. He saw that the match would not help him towards his goals in any way so he ignored the match and set his mind on the next challenge.

that extra 15 minutes really made a huge difference in dealing with the next challenge I'm sure



Well it doesnt have to do anything with time at all just the mindset and the ability to move on to the next game and dont let urself be dragged down by some bad games. I just think it was how naniwa handled him moving on to his future goals.
shadymmj
Profile Joined June 2010
1906 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2483
On December 14 2011 21:43 comar wrote:
Yet in professional soccer it's totally ok not to play with a single regular when the team already qualified for the next round in FIFA World Cup, UEFA Euro Cup, UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League....

I think it's very unprofessional of GOM to be 'culturally offended', yet don't giving a fuck about Naniwas cultural background.
Calling Naniwa unprofessional, but having vague as shit rules, plays obviously into this as well

That being said, Naniwa should have learned the lesson the day he got disqualified from ESL Pro Series for penalty points.

Anyhow I'm disappointed because I like watching protoss, especially a foreigner protoss versus koreans


he did not bring a b-team. bringing a b-team would be something roughly like going 2 base carriers or mass dt.

what he did was get on the field, handed the opponent the ball, and walk off before 2 minutes had elapsed. do you see any team do this for non-crucial matches?
There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.
Majynx
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1431 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2484
Unfortunate for Naniwa. However, since GOM considers what Naniwa did a breach in their rules, there is nothing that can be done but accepting their decision. While it sucks that Naniwa and NesTea had to play a match that had no tournament meaning, as a programer he should have known the rules and followed them. Hope he continues to participate in future GSL tournaments.

On a side note, excited to see that Sen will be in the GSL!
turamn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1374 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2485
On December 14 2011 21:47 Aydeini wrote:
dumbest move ever, why did he have to play the game in the first place? and now people want him to go all out show his best strategies for nothing?


This arguement is so worn out. I have to do things at work or in real life daily that 'don't have a purpose or reward' but guess what, you've still got to do them. IT IS HIS JOB TO PLAY THE GAMES. SHUT UP AND PLAY THEM.
kcbgoku
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland156 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2486
On December 14 2011 21:34 Phobbers wrote:
He took his hands OFF the keyboard, ZERO EFFORT. For someone who payed to watch that game, I was pretty offended.


I know 100% there was situation when a player made his army, pressed a-move on opponent's base and left his booth. How did his opponent feel? I'm not sure if he was disqualified or punished but I doubt it. Would you be offended by this? Cuz I'd love it.

6 probe is unwinnable? As far as I know they regenerate shield "a bit faster" than drones regenerate health so it is theoreticly possible to win that with godlike micro i think.
Ace.Xile
Profile Joined June 2011
United States286 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:52:16
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2487
On December 14 2011 21:45 Vari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:43 Ace.Xile wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:40 Vari wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:38 semm wrote:
You can really tell how many young people there are in this thread. For the ones saying 'He didn't break any of the official rules!' Listen up: Naniwa is a professional gamer, being in tournaments like the GSL is his JOB. For those of you who have never had a real job let me give you a tip: if you go around disrespecting the business's customers, not showing up for the work and generally having a bad attitude, then when you get called into the boss's office say 'I don't see any rules I broke in the employee handbook!' you will be laughed out of the building and you will get fired I assure you. The ban is completely in keeping with any type of pro-gaming scene that wants to be professional in the least.


well said

it blows my mind that the argument is basically "he should be allowed to ignore what he said he would do and throw it in the face of everyone watching if he doesn't want to play"

'wah mommy I don't wanna!!!!'

grow up


This is obnoxious to me. It's the NFL teams job to play games, when it comes down to borderline playoff time NFL teams will take off their 1st string players and place in their 3rd, effectively forfeiting their chances at any serious game (assuming they have won their playoff spot) because their 3rd strings are that much worse than their 1st string. It's exactly what naniwa did, stop being narrow minded.

naniwa wouldn't have risked injury by playing that game.

and this comparison isn't fair anyway. I'd say putting in 3rd strings is comparable to trying to win with a weak strategy, say 4 gate, for which it has been repeatedly said naniwa wouldn't have gotten any shit. what naniwa did is comparable to not putting any players on the field at all. handing the other team the ball and laying down.


The driving reason behind why teams can put in their 3rd string is because the game doesn't matter period, there's no reason to play it, and it's better to take rest and not to reveal strategies. The whole argument of 4gate vs probe rush is stupid, because they both end in the same result, same as putting a 3rd string team in against laying down and just giving them the game, no team with 1st string players in will likely ever lose a serious game to a 3rd string team, period ever. At this point the only thing you're arguing is that naniwas an ass because his strat took 3-4 less minutes. Naniwa would have lost just the same if he 4 gated, hell he even saved everyone time by ending it early.
Obelix
Profile Joined October 2011
United Kingdom11 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:50:59
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2488
This feels like a knee jerk reaction from GOM and something of a culture clash. I'm not condoning it, but I think I can understand where they are coming from. If a Korean had done this, they would get the same "punishment", as it's completely against their culture. Therefore one can imagine GOM feeling pressured into doing something quickly in order to satisfy the home audience.

Then there is the question, of whether they have taken something away from him that was already given, or whether they are not awarding him a spot because that isn't clear. Here's what Google makes of the twitter comment cited earlier:

Code S NaNiwa seed was not the first place. "If you had yesterday, such an act may have been able to give the seed" is right. Many of MLG S seed code came from Providence, but did you know that. # GSL # SC2


There is a big difference between taking something away from someone, or choosing not to award something to someone.

However, despite all this, I side with Naniwa 100%. It was never made clear to him, his team or anyone else that worker rushing in this match, regardless of whether it matters, would result in punishment or forfeiture from future competitions. If that had been stated, and he had chosen to do it anyway, then fair enough. But that's not the case.

It's being treated as a red card offense, which is punishment unbefitting of the crime. A slap on the wrist and a warning: "do it again and you're punished", would have been acceptable and appropriate. He already admitted he regretted doing it.

Let's just hope this doesn't cause a rift in an otherwise very tight knit community.
EU Obelix.803 Terran [Platinum]
ptz
Profile Joined January 2005
Romania251 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2489
while i agree that naniwa should get some kind of punishment for his unprofessional behaviour, i dont think gom went the right way about it. Especially not with giving free code S seeds somewhat randomly to foreigners afterwards, even if it is the gracken.
Even if it was an unimportant match for qualifying and money, there are people that pay 10 dollars to see those games, its naniwa vs nestea ffs. Even if they dont give a shit about it, they still have to be professional and play it, cuz their actions still reflect on their sponsors and on the tournament. I think the analogy about soccer teams sending their B team to nonimportant games is bad, because nani could've played a B match and 4 gate or something if he did not care about the outcome.
Instead he chose to score the ball in his own goal, this is the right analogy. What he did basically would be showing up and not playing just to somehow prove a point, that he does not care about unimportant matches. If a soccer team would go in and just noncombat, measures would be taken everywhere, and GOM took em. I mean even if its nonimportant, it has exposure, people pay to watch it, show something. Try something new, like a practice game, at least treat it somehow.

Naniwa threw a slap in the face to Gom in it's end of the year, best of the best tournament. You really cant expect them to do nothing about it. However you want to find an excuse for him and throw bad analogies, he was in the wrong here. Its true the format is bad, so are most leagues where some teams play unimportant games, but they still send young players, try new things, they dont just throw in the towel in protest, because they would get punished.

I was really looking forward to see Nani and toss in code S this season, even tho im not a fan of his because of his personality. I am sad for him as he went to Korea basically for this and now cant prove himself, but he needs to stare at himself in the mirror for a while and realise that he has a part of the blame, and he needs to act proffessional in a world that strives to be proffessional. If he wants a salary and accomodations and to be treated like a pro he needs to act like it.

Blind fanboys blindly defending him and hammering Gom are not good for Nani right now. The worst thing for him would be to feel persecuted and feel like he was right with this. He needs to change his demeanour.

DrGreen
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland708 Posts
December 14 2011 12:49 GMT
#2490
On December 14 2011 21:45 jojo311 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:44 NHY wrote:
People need to stop saying "Naniwa earned Code S spot."

No he did not.

MLG Providence had no Code S seed. In case you didn't notice, there weren't GSL invites or Code A seeds either.
I know some casters were saying thing like that, which is why many people are confused.

He was, however, going be one of 2 foreigners invited for Code S.

Now, GOM has 'uninvited' him.

As it stands, Naniwa can still qualify for Code A like everyone else (*cough* Jinro *cough*)



THIS IS CORRECT.

Naniwa was not confirmed for Code S spot.



He was confirmed code S spot, you should do some research before posting.

Also suspending from GSL when he "broke" the rule of BLIZZARD CUP is just retarded and makes no sense.
discw
Profile Joined April 2010
United States122 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2491
On December 14 2011 21:38 semm wrote:
You can really tell how many young people there are in this thread. For the ones saying 'He didn't break any of the official rules!' Listen up: Naniwa is a professional gamer, being in tournaments like the GSL is his JOB. For those of you who have never had a real job let me give you a tip: if you go around disrespecting the business's customers, not showing up for the work and generally having a bad attitude, then when you get called into the boss's office say 'I don't see any rules I broke in the employee handbook!' you will be laughed out of the building and you will get fired I assure you. The ban is completely in keeping with any type of pro-gaming scene that wants to be professional in the least.


You should go read the 'handbook' for your job, you'll find every one of those things you listed in there. There's a reason they're so damn long.

There's plenty of decent arguments one can make to try to defend some of gom'e behavior here(other than insulting him, that's obviously inexcusable). "Haha you stupid kids don't know anything, come back when you grow up" isn't one of them.
oban
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden18 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2492
Way too harsh of a punishment. GOM really are amateurs in every way possible and not worthy of hosting internatoinal tournaments. They fucked over Stephano last time when MC seemed to play to have DRG move to the next round. Wouldn't surprise me at all if the issue is racism.
nekoconeco
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia359 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2493
On December 14 2011 21:40 Vari wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:38 semm wrote:
You can really tell how many young people there are in this thread. For the ones saying 'He didn't break any of the official rules!' Listen up: Naniwa is a professional gamer, being in tournaments like the GSL is his JOB. For those of you who have never had a real job let me give you a tip: if you go around disrespecting the business's customers, not showing up for the work and generally having a bad attitude, then when you get called into the boss's office say 'I don't see any rules I broke in the employee handbook!' you will be laughed out of the building and you will get fired I assure you. The ban is completely in keeping with any type of pro-gaming scene that wants to be professional in the least.


well said

it blows my mind that the argument is basically "he should be allowed to ignore what he said he would do and throw it in the face of everyone watching if he doesn't want to play"

'wah mommy I don't wanna!!!!'

grow up


Comparing sportspeople to being a salary-man is pretty dumb frankly. It is closer to if your boss asked you to work for free and then you did a bad job at it so they fired you (unpaid work is illegal in many countries btw). Pro sports people play tournaments to win money Naniwa isn't a full time employee of GOMTV. Also he completed his work obligation which is to play the match out (since he did play albeit not very well). Also it is a lot more difficult to fire an employee than you think you cannot just terminate someone arbitrarily.
My Photoshop stream (requests welcome) --> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=304143
Quintum_
Profile Joined May 2011
United States669 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2494
On December 14 2011 21:42 Xax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:37 Alpino wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:34 Losthorn wrote:
This would have gotten a similar reaction in any professional sport so I cant see where all the crying is coming from....


Soccer teams don't field their A team in non important matches. Don't pretend you know something about all the sports in the world son.

(Actually other teams pay them to "give their best" in non important matches when the "other" team thinks that the team without motivation to win will be good for them.)


http://www.tribalfootball.com/articles/wolves-receive-25000-fine-fielding-weakened-side-651901


Lol ouch, got owned hard right there. I put what nani did like an NFL team that has no chance of making the playoffs going out onto the field and tossing the ball to the other team every possession they had, would we ever see that, i think not.. While his punishment might be a little on the harsh side i dont see how people can defend his actions.
♠ (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ ♠ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ♠ (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ ♠
MasterBlasterCaster
Profile Joined October 2011
United States568 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2495
On December 14 2011 21:49 shadymmj wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:43 comar wrote:
Yet in professional soccer it's totally ok not to play with a single regular when the team already qualified for the next round in FIFA World Cup, UEFA Euro Cup, UEFA Champions League, UEFA Europa League....

I think it's very unprofessional of GOM to be 'culturally offended', yet don't giving a fuck about Naniwas cultural background.
Calling Naniwa unprofessional, but having vague as shit rules, plays obviously into this as well

That being said, Naniwa should have learned the lesson the day he got disqualified from ESL Pro Series for penalty points.

Anyhow I'm disappointed because I like watching protoss, especially a foreigner protoss versus koreans


he did not bring a b-team. bringing a b-team would be something roughly like going 2 base carriers or mass dt.

what he did was get on the field, handed the opponent the ball, and walk off before 2 minutes had elapsed. do you see any team do this for non-crucial matches?

That is such bullshit.

He did not insta-gg out. He used a losing strategy. Playing with your worst players is using a losing strategy.

Not playing to win=not playing to win. Stop splitting hairs.
Ace.Xile
Profile Joined June 2011
United States286 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2496
On December 14 2011 21:49 turamn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:47 Aydeini wrote:
dumbest move ever, why did he have to play the game in the first place? and now people want him to go all out show his best strategies for nothing?


This arguement is so worn out. I have to do things at work or in real life daily that 'don't have a purpose or reward' but guess what, you've still got to do them. IT IS HIS JOB TO PLAY THE GAMES. SHUT UP AND PLAY THEM.


it's his job to compete,


something that the nestea/naniwa scenario was entirely devoid of? - real competition with substantial rewards
LunaSea
Profile Joined October 2011
Luxembourg369 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2497
GOM = Starcraft II KespA !!!
"Your f*cking wrong, but I respect your opinion" --Day[9]
XRaDiiX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Canada1730 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2498
Wtf are you people talking about he never had the Code S Spot he was only invited.

Even if he was only invited uninviting him from the Code S Spot is the same thing as Revoking his Code S Spot. Isn't it?
Never GG MKP | IdrA
bikefrog
Profile Joined September 2011
Norway451 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2499
On December 14 2011 21:47 Emnjay808 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:43 nimdil wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:42 Vari wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:40 Zandar wrote:
On December 14 2011 21:39 baoluvboa wrote:
You're an idiot if you think this is a race issue. A korean would have been punished just as much, if not more.


They are forcing Korean moral standards upon a foreign player in an international tournament.

it's the rules of the tournament

Show this rule, please.

Show me the rule where it says its okay to throw games.


There aren't rules about everything that's allowed but rather things that aren't allowed or there would be an infinite amount of rules. Logic fail.
Foreigners fighting! Ovethrow our Korean overlords!
Weltenfeind
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark6 Posts
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#2500
"- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"

What the hell does that mean? Isn't every kind og all-in pretty abusive?
I sure as hell feel effing offended everytime I have to watch those all-ins in the GSL .. Or their Kpop bands for that matter.
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