EPTand don't rule's exist to prevent things like this from happening?
and is it bad i don't have a really strong opinion about who is right and who is wrong?
What happened in Korean stream just now. - Page 49
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
and don't rule's exist to prevent things like this from happening? and is it bad i don't have a really strong opinion about who is right and who is wrong? | ||
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Littlemuff
United Kingdom301 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:59 Velr wrote: What Naniwa did is like.. A Gold player playing whiteout a Bat. A Tennis player playing whiteout a Bat. A Skier starting with only 1 ski. It was losing on purpose by utilising only 1 hand and chosing a strategy that won't win no matter what. Naniwa did show up BUT HE DID NOT PLAY. However, unlike those non-strategy based sports you cannot reveal something important in a match. Skiers? They just ski, Tennis and Gold? (did you mean Golf?) is the same way. NaNi 100% prepared something special and meta-game-y for NesTea should they meet. However since the match they met in had ZERO VALUE TO ANYTHING, yes that is right, ZERO VALUE, why would NaNi reveal his new strat and be forced to find a new way to beat NesTea? While his behavior was culturally unfit, it shows how narrow minded and one-way the Koreans are. They aren't willing to admit that their format was stupid and poorly thought out, even though they are the "best e-sports show on the planet" MLG doesn't do silly amatuer tournament shit like that. Also, a professional level tournament should be able to understand professional level strategy. Players have been throwing matches in Starcraft, and RTS in general since its competitive birth. The same goes for chess. You don't want to reveal something new that you have found within the metagame to the world until it can win you a prize pool. Claiming that this offends the fans, and has 'ruined eSports' or whatever the fuck is childish, and insulting. The fans should have been smart enough to realize that the last games for the Blizzard Cup groups meant NOTHING, how many tournaments can you think of that have completely useless games in them. GSL, and then scrubby amateur tournaments. The fans should be smart enough to call GOM out for this kind of action, and to point out to them that its completely their fault that this situation arose. The reason they aren't is because in the past Koreans have just 4gated or 6pooled or proxy gated, etc. Strats that have very low win-rates at top level, but at least put a 'show' on. Personally these games are more offending to me as a fan because I feel like iIve been tricked. Ever watch a Protoss not micro his Stalkers in a 4gate? Or a Zerg just a-move his lings? That's because they are throwing the match, but trying to trick you into thinking they are actually trying. NaNiwa threw that in GOMs face, and more power to him. So what if they remove his seed? He'll just win another MLG, Korean Daily, some intelligently designed tournament to get a seed back. This kind of punishment doesn't prove anything. Not letting someone compete is only going to drive them to compete more. Calling NaNiwa an "amateur prize money hunter" is pretty silly imo. He is someone who works harder than 98% of the Koreans, and beats 99% of them. I think that GOM is just pissed at NaNiwa for exposing the harsh truth about throwing matches, which is that it happens all the time. Players throw matches, however, a professional player knows what matches to throw. When the match you are in means nothing, and you are up against someone who requires a specific strategy to beat, if you had 1/4 of a brain you wouldn't use that strat and just throw the match. Get off NaNi's ass, and tell GOM to stop being babies. They need to realize its their fault a player acted this way. If the format wasn't poorly designed, then this whole episode wouldn't have happened. The tournament is ALWAYS responsible for the actions of a player at their tournament, this carries over from all sports. The tournament should be appologizing not only to NesTea, NaNiwa, and the community, but should also be promising to not let this happen again. Making NaNiwa into a scapegoat is just a way to distract from all the other thrown matches in GSL history. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 14 2011 18:44 Manifesto7 wrote: GOM TV, sinking to Naniwa's level. Sweet sweet drama. Sums up my thoughts exactly. -_- When will the rodeo end? | ||
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Reppin405
United States9 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
Neither of them were going to play anywhere close 100% anyways, don't you realize that? | ||
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Eury
Sweden1126 Posts
Also I suggest Chae gets suspended for one season of GSL. | ||
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UBavarice
Sweden358 Posts
It's a reasonable response from GOM. Naniwa will learn from it (hopefully). Other players will also learn from it. And I hope GOM has learned that they shouldn't force players to play meaningless matches after they just got knocked out. | ||
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BlindSight754
Canada156 Posts
GOM should realize that they never explicitly told Naniwa he couldn't probe rush. Take some friggen responsibility for your own terrible tournament format. | ||
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mastergriggy
United States1312 Posts
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djtopa
United Kingdom59 Posts
Besides throwing them out from GSL especially after this much drama is a horrible decision from buisness point of view. I'm sure he would have brought a lot of viewers. Interesting people are more fun to watch period. | ||
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Xiron
Germany1233 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:19 UBavarice wrote: Naniwa behaved very unprofessionally in the wrong arena. If you do stuff like this in real sports (football for example) you can have players banned for X amount of time, so it's definitely not unheared of. It's a reasonable response from GOM. Naniwa will learn from it (hopefully). Other players will also learn from it. And I hope GOM has learned that they shouldn't force players to play meaningless matches after they just got knocked out. Stop talking shit please. Have you ever seen a football player being banned for not running after the ball? No! Have you ever seen an ice hockey player being disqualified because he didnt hit the goal? No! It's complete nonsense you are talking. Yea. Now they have a rule. Use it for someone who actually breaks the rule. Naniwa did definetly and objectively not. | ||
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SoniC_eu
Denmark1008 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:19 UBavarice wrote: Naniwa behaved very unprofessionally in the wrong arena. If you do stuff like this in real sports (football for example) you can have players banned for X amount of time, so it's definitely not unheared of. It's a reasonable response from GOM. Naniwa will learn from it (hopefully). Other players will also learn from it. And I hope GOM has learned that they shouldn't force players to play meaningless matches after they just got knocked out. No it isn't especially when there were no rules about it prior. They are using Johan as a scapegoat. Only time players get punished is when it's ingrained in the rules and it wasn't even then fines and suspension are rare. You cannot change the rules on the fly. | ||
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:19 mastergriggy wrote: I think Naniwa acted in a disrespectful manner to the culture (I'm guessing the outcome would have been different if he had done that in the states or in europe), but at the same time revoking someone's code s status is kind of an extreme punishment. Curious to see how this will turn out? I'm guessing it'll have quite a backlash on some of the foreign viewership for GOM. In the States or Europe, this match wouldn't have existed since it was a waste of time to start with. The match people are so pissed about meant nothing to anyone anywhere as far as results. This means NesTea wasn't going to play anywhere near 100% of his game either. NaNiwa knew this and just said, fuck this stupid shit and left. | ||
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bobohobo
Canada69 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:24 bobohobo wrote: Good decision by GOM. Naniwa clearly broke a discretionary rule. Discretionary rules are neither arbitrary or made up on the spot. The rule has always existed. It's common for any tournament and organization to have discretionary rules in place for situations like this. What Naniwa did was more than offensive in Korean culture, not to mention a lot of fans are offended too. It's not the first time Naniwa received repercussion for his behaviour. It's no surprised that GOM ruled against Naniwa. People need to stop blowing it out of proportion, he was not banned. Sen and idra got their code s spots from sponsor seeds. It's two totally separate things. I will show my support for GOM and GSL by purchasing a season ticket. What GOM did was blow it out of proportion and this discretionary rule you speak of is hogwash. The Koreans feel their culture is threatened and took it to the extreme. Frigging ridiculous. | ||
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Hydrox911
United Kingdom261 Posts
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Chronald
United States619 Posts
On December 15 2011 01:26 StarStruck wrote: What GOM did was blow it out of proportion and this discretionary rule you speak of is hogwash. The Koreans feel their culture is threatened and took it to the extreme. Frigging ridiculous. The rule in question is to "not offend opponent" or whatever, but do you think NesTea was offended? No. He knew that the format was bad, the match worthless, and was just going to go through the 7 minute motions until it was over. Was the audience offended? Maybe only an audience that doesn't actually understand RTS or strategy. Anyone with half a brain can see that he was hiding a new anti-NesTea build for a match that is actually important. Koreans do this ALL THE TIME, but they are just better at hiding it. NaNiwa now knows to hide this kind of stuff and I'm willing to be we won't see this again. To revoke someone's offered seed for something like this is ridiculous and shows that the tournament isn't professionally minded and is just trying to get ratings. A truly professional tournament wouldn't have useless matches in it's format. | ||
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