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GOM got guts , and i am pretty sure they do care more about their Korean audience then their forgein audience , so they had to do it and frankly i hope Naniwa learns his lesson from that and works for his money
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On December 14 2011 19:48 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:46 Coca Cola Classic wrote:On December 14 2011 19:45 Tachion wrote:On December 14 2011 19:43 hahaimhenry wrote:On December 14 2011 19:39 hjop wrote:On December 14 2011 19:04 billz wrote:
If this was any other sport then lawyers would be consulted right now about lodging legal proceedings against Gom. Pretty scandalous behaviour from them - can you really imagine Manchester United getting banned from a tournament for fielding a weakened team in a game that doesn't matter? Great comparison, except a 6 probe rush has a ZERO % chance of winning at all, where as a WEAKENED Manchester United team always has a chance of winning AND they are giving lesser experienced players an opportunity to get some experience. I think you'd be better off comparing it to Manchester United not showing up at all, because then they'd have a ZERO % chance of winning. Such an out of place comparison. Naniwa could have just proxy 2 gated, cannon rushed or 4 gated. Actually, probe rush beats someone going 6 pool. no it doesn't lol. all you do is run your drones around till your pool finishes i'm glad you responded to this. unbelievable. I'm glad you responded too. I'm sure you agree?
Completely agree.
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On December 14 2011 19:47 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:41 Yami_no_cosmos wrote:
I do not have a personal grudge against NaNiwa cause when I've meet him he was actually quite a sweet guy.
But I most say that I'm super exited to see Mr Idra. ♥ <3
EG fan what can you expect hu?
I secretly wish that this happens again so that I can see Jinro in code S. Don't tell anyone.... xD Haha thx, but I would turn down the seed, again... I really dont want to go back there without earning it -_-;; I would never feel good about myself. It's different from IdrA and Sen who you can at least look at some recent results and go, yeah, they did pretty good - for me it would be a joke to accept (not that it's actually going to happen, just saying in theory).
Wow . . . what a bad ass.
Just making that statement puts you at a step mentally above all of the foreigners that take GSL spots offered to them from performance in foreign tournaments . . . regardless of skill.
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On December 14 2011 19:48 babo213 wrote:
I'm surprise that there haven't been any temp/perma bans yet for a lot of the posts in here.
As far as comparing this to the NFL/NBA/any other sport, there's a risk of injury for players and that's a reason why some team's put in their backups or if they're doing terribly they want to evaluate their players for the future.
Naniwa essentially threw a game and is very unprofessional. If any other player threw a game they'd get a punishment as well.
Again, there's plenty of examples of thrown games in the GSL. Hero did it against DRG just this monday. Throwing the game is not the issue.
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ONCE watch for example any european soccer league when its the last play day. You will see SO effin many teams which played very unmotivated because the result wont change a fuck.
... In basketball (NBA) when seeding no longer is effected teams often times don't even put their best players on the floor for a single minute...
You just proved my point, they don't give their all or play their best.
In basketball do you see players throwing to their own basket?
In football do players score a own goal?
They are not giving their best but they are not doing their absolute best to lose. They still play.
Naniwa played to lose as fast as possible. Proxying or cannon rushing would have been "not putting best players" or "playing unmotivated".
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On December 14 2011 19:46 Ktk wrote:
reading some posts above mine. vague rules, yes. but it's a rather reasonable committee deciding this, so why are you mad? do you dislike the supreme court too? or general law that is to be intepreted?
Actually, yes, many times I do.
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On December 14 2011 19:49 Snorkle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:45 Kiarip wrote:On December 14 2011 19:44 epicdemic wrote:On December 14 2011 19:39 hjop wrote:On December 14 2011 19:04 billz wrote:
If this was any other sport then lawyers would be consulted right now about lodging legal proceedings against Gom. Pretty scandalous behaviour from them - can you really imagine Manchester United getting banned from a tournament for fielding a weakened team in a game that doesn't matter? Great comparison, except a 6 probe rush has a ZERO % chance of winning at all, where as a WEAKENED Manchester United team always has a chance of winning AND they are giving lesser experienced players an opportunity to get some experience. I think you'd be better off comparing it to Manchester United not showing up at all, because then they'd have a ZERO % chance of winning. Such an out of place comparison. Naniwa could have just proxy 2 gated, cannon rushed or 4 gated. GOMTV isn't criticizing the build order, but the attitude of Naniwa. He didn't take the match seriously. So when Manchester United doesn't take a match seriously by fielding their worst players, that's a good comparison  And what's the punishment for manchester united when they do that? because in the NBA there's no punishment but I don't follow euro soccer Great Decision by GOM. We expect sportsmanship like conduct in every sport. If SC2 is to be considered an esport then hell sportsmanship being required is a no brainer.
Every sport has penalties against unsportsmanlike conduct. Technical fouls in the NBA, yellow cards in football for diving, etc., There is no defense for Naniwa. It was unsportsmanlike. Looks like Naniwa needs to learn a few things about how to conduct himself when he is representing the foreigner community, Quantic, Startale, and his own country. except in the NBA meaningless games are thrown all the time, and no one gets suspensions or technicals for them. The difference is that in the NBA it is understood that you are giving your up and coming players a chance to gain experience and maybe even gain exposure for a good performance. Naniwa didn't even take advantage of the chance to play against an amazing zerg in a televised match. If an NBA team just showed up and stood on the court while the other team played by themselves, then you would have an analogous situation to what Naniwa did. And trust me if a team did that they would get their asses fined into oblivion.
Erm no? They would only get sued for match-fixing. And that only because there is a big-ass betting-lobby.
Dont bend facts.
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On December 14 2011 19:49 Snorkle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:45 Kiarip wrote:On December 14 2011 19:44 epicdemic wrote:On December 14 2011 19:39 hjop wrote:On December 14 2011 19:04 billz wrote:
If this was any other sport then lawyers would be consulted right now about lodging legal proceedings against Gom. Pretty scandalous behaviour from them - can you really imagine Manchester United getting banned from a tournament for fielding a weakened team in a game that doesn't matter? Great comparison, except a 6 probe rush has a ZERO % chance of winning at all, where as a WEAKENED Manchester United team always has a chance of winning AND they are giving lesser experienced players an opportunity to get some experience. I think you'd be better off comparing it to Manchester United not showing up at all, because then they'd have a ZERO % chance of winning. Such an out of place comparison. Naniwa could have just proxy 2 gated, cannon rushed or 4 gated. GOMTV isn't criticizing the build order, but the attitude of Naniwa. He didn't take the match seriously. So when Manchester United doesn't take a match seriously by fielding their worst players, that's a good comparison And what's the punishment for manchester united when they do that? because in the NBA there's no punishment but I don't follow euro soccer Great Decision by GOM. We expect sportsmanship like conduct in every sport. If SC2 is to be considered an esport then hell sportsmanship being required is a no brainer.
Every sport has penalties against unsportsmanlike conduct. Technical fouls in the NBA, yellow cards in football for diving, etc., There is no defense for Naniwa. It was unsportsmanlike. Looks like Naniwa needs to learn a few things about how to conduct himself when he is representing the foreigner community, Quantic, Startale, and his own country. except in the NBA meaningless games are thrown all the time, and no one gets suspensions or technicals for them. The difference is that in the NBA it is understood that you are giving your up and coming players a chance to gain experience and maybe even gain exposure for a good performance. Naniwa didn't even take advantage of the chance to play against an amazing zerg in a televised match. If an NBA team just showed up and stood on the court while the other team played by themselves, then you would have an analogous situation to what Naniwa did. And trust me if a team did that they would get their asses fined into oblivion.
no it's nothing like that actually. In fact it is the play-off teams that do this the most, and they do it because they want to REST THEIR STARTERS... because the game isn't worth winning...
so the situation is completely similar. The only difference is that in starcraft you can end a game very fast and in all sports it has to last a set amount of time.
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On December 14 2011 19:50 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:48 babo213 wrote:
I'm surprise that there haven't been any temp/perma bans yet for a lot of the posts in here.
As far as comparing this to the NFL/NBA/any other sport, there's a risk of injury for players and that's a reason why some team's put in their backups or if they're doing terribly they want to evaluate their players for the future.
Naniwa essentially threw a game and is very unprofessional. If any other player threw a game they'd get a punishment as well.
Again, there's plenty of examples of thrown games in the GSL. Hero did it against DRG just this monday. Throwing the game is not the issue.
How did Hero do it against DRG?
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This must be scary for the players. Can't help to wonder who's going to be next.
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On December 14 2011 19:44 Aech wrote:
Man this seems to be an entirely polarizing event from the comments. Seems pretty much everyone is never watching another GSL match again in total outrage or thinks GOM is good for standing up for themselves.
Personally, I think Naniwa was disrespectful and deserved some form of punishment. If he didn't like the format of the tourney, he didn't have to play in it. Also, I can totally see how probe rushing is "abusive" behavior to both nestea and the audience. We were all deprived of a great, high level ZvP and a match with some history behind it. I would have been disappointed with a proxy or something from Naniwa, but at least it would have been a legitimate game. Notice, he didn't even micro his probes in that rush... had his hands off the keyboard... he just boxed and a-moved pretty much. Completely disrespectful and deserved a mild punishment IMO.
Also keep in mind, this is for one season, not the end of the world.
The point is that he loses his code S spot that he had obtained in a perfectly legitimate way. It's incredibly hard to get a code S spot, which is why this punishment is very harsh. If he had not had the code S spot and they simply told him that he would not be allowed to participate in the upcoming code A January qualifiers I would have been fine with that. I think him being punished in some way is perfectly reasonably, but this is way over the top.
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On December 14 2011 19:42 Kiarip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:41 Demonace34 wrote:On December 14 2011 19:35 Neelia wrote:On December 14 2011 19:14 Grettin wrote:On December 14 2011 19:12 PET wrote:
Ok. I'm curious.
What strategies are for GOM ... ok? Is it ok to do a 6 pool? Is it ok to take 4 drones and attack? We clearly see we can't probe rush ...
Soon we will see that the minimum game requirement is 30 minutes and we get 15 minutes to "evolve" like playing on Big Game Hunters 10 years ago.
Do you understand that you can't win with a strategy like probe rush in a competition like GSL. You might not win straight-up with 6pooling, but you can follow it up and win. That is the difference between these. Do you think you can win a GSL match with Nexus first in PvP? I'm quite certain that the chances to succeed with nexus first is about as high as the 7 probe rush. Does anyone think HerO should be punished? I don't think so. The difference is that a 7 probe rush is a failure 99.9% of the time, Nexus first against a player who doesn't scout can actually work and be a strategy. 12 drone rush actually can work on Steppes of War back in the day, the difference is that the player doing the drone rush is trying to win, the 7 probe rush is saying, "fuck this tournament, see ya later". probe rush against a player that doesn't micro can also win.
Okay, so you are saying that if GSL is a joke competition(without the other person microing) you can win... So in this case, GSL says, Naniwa has disrespected the tournament and isn't fit to be a competitor because the tournament is suppose to be the best in the world. If you put out a product and people are paying to watch the best players in SCII, why would you let someone throw a game on purpose? It is one thing to just FF or make an excuse, it is another thing to worker rush and GG.
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On December 14 2011 19:50 vjee32 wrote:Show nested quote +
ONCE watch for example any european soccer league when its the last play day. You will see SO effin many teams which played very unmotivated because the result wont change a fuck.
Show nested quote +
... In basketball (NBA) when seeding no longer is effected teams often times don't even put their best players on the floor for a single minute...
You just proved my point, they don't give their all or play their best. In basketball do you see players throwing to their own basket? In football do players score a own goal? They are not giving their best but they are not doing their absolute best to lose. They still play. Naniwa played to lose as fast as possible. Proxying or cannon rushing would have been "not putting best players" or "playing unmotivated".
Rofl, some guys in here should learn to build causality-chains:
Throwing own basket = Shooting at own goal = Attacking your own structres ... unless you cant get those things straight DONT USE ANALOGIES.
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On December 14 2011 19:50 TOCHMY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:46 Ktk wrote:
reading some posts above mine. vague rules, yes. but it's a rather reasonable committee deciding this, so why are you mad? do you dislike the supreme court too? or general law that is to be intepreted? Actually, yes, many times I do.
Then this isn't really an argument we can settle in the context of e-sports, is it. :/
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On December 14 2011 19:51 babo213 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:50 m0ck wrote:On December 14 2011 19:48 babo213 wrote:
I'm surprise that there haven't been any temp/perma bans yet for a lot of the posts in here.
As far as comparing this to the NFL/NBA/any other sport, there's a risk of injury for players and that's a reason why some team's put in their backups or if they're doing terribly they want to evaluate their players for the future.
Naniwa essentially threw a game and is very unprofessional. If any other player threw a game they'd get a punishment as well.
Again, there's plenty of examples of thrown games in the GSL. Hero did it against DRG just this monday. Throwing the game is not the issue. How did Hero do it against DRG?
Doesn't matter, the intention is the same. GOM doesn't ban people on what they do, but on how they do it. That's stupid.
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Resting starters = resting the builds you've slaved over in preparation for a match.
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On December 14 2011 19:49 Coca Cola Classic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:48 Tachion wrote:On December 14 2011 19:46 Coca Cola Classic wrote:On December 14 2011 19:45 Tachion wrote:On December 14 2011 19:43 hahaimhenry wrote:On December 14 2011 19:39 hjop wrote:On December 14 2011 19:04 billz wrote:
If this was any other sport then lawyers would be consulted right now about lodging legal proceedings against Gom. Pretty scandalous behaviour from them - can you really imagine Manchester United getting banned from a tournament for fielding a weakened team in a game that doesn't matter? Great comparison, except a 6 probe rush has a ZERO % chance of winning at all, where as a WEAKENED Manchester United team always has a chance of winning AND they are giving lesser experienced players an opportunity to get some experience. I think you'd be better off comparing it to Manchester United not showing up at all, because then they'd have a ZERO % chance of winning. Such an out of place comparison. Naniwa could have just proxy 2 gated, cannon rushed or 4 gated. Actually, probe rush beats someone going 6 pool. no it doesn't lol. all you do is run your drones around till your pool finishes i'm glad you responded to this. unbelievable. I'm glad you responded too. I'm sure you agree? Completely agree.
oh :| I actually thought you were being sarcastic. oops.
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To all these people comparing the situation to some professional sports. I think it´s most comparable to the Football WC. World´s best teams meet to represent their countries and decide who is the best team at the moment. But it´s not just that but also a big reason to celebrate the sport and have a great time, both for the fans and the players. So when in group stage there´s the third game to be played and 2 teams face who are already out (both lost first 2 games etc.) they give it their best nonetheless and usually also field their best players. Because it´s an honour to be one of the qualified teams and a pretty rare possibility for the fans to see their team compete against these other champions.
BlizzCup is a tourney that afaik GOM especially set up as a season closing event where fans get to see the best players from around the world showcasing there talents. That´s why Naniwa-Nestea game was played and in Up&Downs games like this aren´t.
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On December 14 2011 19:49 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 19:48 Clearout wrote:On December 14 2011 19:45 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 19:43 Weemoed wrote:On December 14 2011 19:42 zestzorb wrote:On December 14 2011 18:38 CryingPoo wrote:
Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter.
Very well put by Mr. Chae So, Stephano should not be in Code S as well then? He only cares about money (and I love him). Stephano didn't do something like Naniwa did. If he did that, yes he shouldn't be in code S. Actually someone posted in one of the other threads that Stephano did throw games in the group stages of DH(?) against Cloud when he couldn't make the group. Those games actually meant something as well. He did a 6pool two times in a row or something? Don't quote me on this  6 pools win you games. 7 probe rushes don't. If you intend to lose, what difference does strategy used make?
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EPT
