EPTTerrans vanishing from the ladder. - Page 43
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Logros
Netherlands9913 Posts
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
if there is any style that you feel is overpowered, and you haven't played 1000 games trying to overcome it, then you are not as good as you feel you are. period. race is irrelevant. there are some balanace issues but if you get good enough you can overcome them until the highest levels of play. anything to avoid hard work... right guys? carry on terran qq thread. | ||
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allerion
62 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:56 Tollhouse1 wrote: In my honest opinion the only fault that I see with Terran once you hit the Diamond-Masters is the APM requirement. By which I mean unless your a Mecher in TvT you have a multitude of things that need to be done. TvP for example is almost unwinnable without great unit control w/amazing macro at home AT THE SAME TIME. Now this isnt a whine about imba or anything but its a skill gap that has arisen since the new nerfs and Toss buffs. Plus, the warp in mechanic for toss puts a buffer to macro vs micro. Where you have to leave a battle to warp in while its going on which compartmentalizes these things in your brain letting you focus on one or the other not both at the same time. (as long as you have good enough mechanics to check when you need to warp in) Terrans though have no such thing and therefore get punished severely for not having the APM to both micro large army engagements, or control a drop with the attack and macro at the same time. This creates a skill gap for players like me who get stuck in Diamond along with no other option viable atm with only mmm to work with since mech isn't very tested or used ever and air Terran is either very all in or you die early on. You mean terrans need to do multiple things as once to be successful? Well golly gee, no other race need to do that, terran must require 10x the apm than any other race. If you cant win a TvP.... you're a very very dense person. If you are in masters/diamond and dont realize that every protoss has certain handicap that come with the race, and dont know how to exploit it, youre not mentally ready to be in higher leagues. I dont see how you consider stimming and stutter stepping "GREAT UNIT CONTROL" when its just basic micro. Do you really want to argue that it is better to leave the battle, momentarily incapable of micro, than watching your units while you press 5ggggdddddaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? In case you actually want to argue that, while terrans are in the middle of holding that a key, if they need to move their units, they can. if protoss is in the middle of warping in zealots, the proxy pylon isnt always right next to the battle, which means they cant do something if its needed for several seconds. If you are in diamond, there are tons of things that YOU are doing to lose yourself the game. it is not your race, its not the race youre playing against. YOU lost. figure out what YOU did and fix it. | ||
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:08 Hider wrote: Mvp allins almost every game vs toss. So nah, I dont really think anyone after patch can play tvp late game. Prepatch it was fine at korean level, now even there late game tvp is toss favored. TvP was HEAVILY Terran favoured at the Korean level before at all times during the game. Nowadays it's pretty even  . Terrans complain about being weaker lategame, but that's actually not true, you just have to be careful with your unit composition and spot-on with your micro (which is mechanically more demanding than playing Protoss in this matchup and you won't hear anybody sane argue anything else). It's HARD for Terran but they have all the tools required to beat Protoss in late game - if they play well enough. Right now we have bad Terrans settling down to where they actually belong. Also keep in mind a lot of top-level Terrans said they didn't even practice TvP, which is gunna hurt because PvT has CHANGED.Disclaimer: I love TvP and now that warp-prisms are made out of cardboard instead of paper, also the reverse . Not fond of PvZ (but it's not imbalanced) or ZvT (also not imbalanced). | ||
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syllabic
29 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote: Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7434 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284293 | ||
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allerion
62 Posts
Really Really. | ||
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zimms
Austria561 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:18 multiversed wrote: the level of self-delusion in this thread is astonishing. the more i see things like this in society the more i am convinced that people will literally tell themselves anything without regard to facts or the truth to justify anything that they do, or do poorly. perhaps the reason that you guys are platauing and race switching is because you are telling yourself that you are good enough that your race is the thing that is limiting you, as apposed to developing a multifacted style of gameplay that requires effort to achieve. the race shouldn't be handing you fee wins, that is why people get angry with terran players... they can be outplayed all game and still win. the same can be said for protoss. while zerg can beat himself countless times. it simply requires a much more refined and flawless effort to win as zerg. if there is any style that you feel is overpowered, and you haven't played 1000 games trying to overcome it, then you are not as good as you feel you are. period. race is irrelevant. there are some balanace issues but if you get good enough you can overcome them until the highest levels of play. anything to avoid hard work... right guys? carry on terran qq thread. Your level of self-delusion is astonishing. Seriously, you complain about the terran qq in this thread, so you go ahead and do the exact same thing with zerg... (I take it you play zerg). | ||
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
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Treziel
United Kingdom123 Posts
On December 15 2011 19:11 K_Dilkington wrote: http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all Average win rate in GM: Random Protoss Terran Zerg 51.0% (7,855) 57.9% (123,236) 58.9% (92,726) 58.3% (101,757) The only thing you can draw from this is that on average GM players have the same winrate regardless of race, reliant on skill. A difference of 1% is not statistically significant and you can't draw any conclusions from it. However there are less T players in GM than either of the other two races which explains the lower number of games played by T. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:21 neoghaleon55 wrote: I thought everyone was happy with the state of terran just a few days ago... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284293 You're only a happy marine if your commander is a Korean pro.  | ||
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
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BoggieMan
520 Posts
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Treziel
United Kingdom123 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:23 zimms wrote: Your level of self-delusion is astonishing. Seriously, you complain about the terran qq in this thread, so you go ahead and do the exact same thing with zerg... (I take it you play zerg). Seriously what is wrong with you? I have seen barely any QQ in this thread - almost all the Terran players in here have agreed that at the top level the game is balanced. Compared to similar P or Z threads, this has been a very civilized discussion about the difficulties that T faces at amateur levels. I don't see anyone here calling for nerfs or buffs to anything, and most people have agreed that the nerfs to T that have already taken place were justified. Please learn some reading comprehension. I don't like how whenever a T thread that pops up in which T difficulties are discussed it is jumped on by P and Z players who start crying about T qq (hypocrisy at it's best right?) when there is nothing of the sort going on. | ||
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allerion
62 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote: And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Well, considering terrans and zergs didnt make bunkers/spines for a while, theres a difference. Ok, let me add that if the build is scouted with sufficient time to respond properly, and still lose because they opponent decided to do that build, then yes, it is a free win. Maybe not 5, but definitely more than 2. And you confuse arrogance with confidence. Terran was the hardest race. Then SC2 came out, and that changed, and since I really doubt you played BW at a very high level, I don't see why you're complaining. Really? What is that reason? Anyway, QXC and Demuslim, to name two very apparent foreigners, have had quite a bit of success with terran. | ||
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Tollhouse1
United States80 Posts
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
Than i saw Protoss whining and i laughed even louder. Than i saw Zerg whining again and short after that Protoss and Zerg whining together. Now i see my Terran brothers whining.... And finally, i realise: + Show Spoiler + There are no Zerg. Protoss and Terrans. There are only whiners and fighters. | ||
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multiversed
United States233 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote: And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Not sure why people are responding to allerion, since he's trolling with a total of 4 posts... I do agree with your point about Protoss all-ins though. Terrans have had a great number of all-ins patched out of the game before a proper response was found on the grounds that it was too hard to stop for the opponent. However, sentry all-ins, void ray all-ins, immortal all-ins, and straight up 4 gate are still much harder to stop compared to the effort required to execute. In fact, the only nerf any of those received on those grounds was the void ray back in November of last year. | ||
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neoghaleon55
United States7434 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:32 skeldark wrote: Long time ago i saw zerg whining, collect their tears and laughed over them. Than i saw Protoss whining and i laughed even louder. Than i saw Zerg whining again and short after that Protoss and Zerg whining together. Now i see my Terran brothers whining.... And finally, i realise: + Show Spoiler + There are no Zerg. Protoss and Terrans. There are only whiners and fighters. Great post. Although I do think this thread serves a purpose. I for one, did not know about how only Terran players from the proscene were getting wrist injuries. A lot of time, people disregard what terran players have difficulty with just because the race is so dominate in tournament. Anyway, if you think Terran is too hard to master with 60-80 apm...just pick another race. | ||
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