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Razbu
Croatia10 Posts
 i check out my division from time to time (amongst my friends divisions also) the lack of terrans is well...rather medium to large i'd say (EU - Dia-Mas) i mean sure it doesn't mean much by a sample of 5-10 divisions amongst who knows how many but still its noticeable atleast in my environment I must say though im sticking with terran all the way cause if one thing i know...some things are just worth fighting for <3 | ||
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Psycho-SoniC
Switzerland31 Posts
Another note about terran's (in)ability to replenish units. It's not only that it takes T the longest period to actually produce the units but also that T is a lot less flexible when changing unit compositions. Let's have a look at the typical production facilities by race: Z = Lots of Hatcheries P = Lots of Gateways plus a few Robos or Stargates T = Either lots of rax with reactors and tech labs or lots of factories with reactors and tech labs plus some Starports After having decided which units I need to build in order to adapt to my opponent I have to build new production facilities or at least adapt the configuration (add-ons) of my production facilities to adapt to my needs. Let's say i realize I need lots of marauders. Now I need Rax with Tech-Labs. That a) takes a lot of time to do b) costs ressources c) requires micro and finally d) is a cumbersome task. It's just so much more efficient and fun as Zerg or Toss to switch unit composition. This problem is even bigger because T has 3 upgrade paths (bio, armor, air) so switching from bio to armor or vice versa is hardly possible once the opponent has some upgrades. | ||
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fosho
Netherlands3 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:23 Pirat6662001 wrote: I stopped playing- Because currently TvP is unplayable for masters. At that level toss has a huge advantage. May be MVP can still win with current nerfs to terran and buffs to toss, but most Terrans in highest 2 leagues outside of Korea are having big problems. build ghost? User was warned for this post | ||
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Manimal_pro
Romania991 Posts
TOP 3 control | ||
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Machiavellii
Norway28 Posts
This problem is even bigger because T has 3 upgrade paths (bio, armor, air) so switching from bio to armor or vice versa is hardly possible once the opponent has some upgrades. meelee ranged air. just sayan | ||
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Riskr
Germany403 Posts
You either go mmvg in EVERY TvP,i mean the toss knows exactly that you only have this option. Or you can have another strat (mech) in TvT and TvZ. but to only have 2 options in your repertoire is ...let´s say limited at least. | ||
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teddyoojo
Germany22369 Posts
as simple as that | ||
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syllabic
29 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote: honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is. Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. | ||
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GzStrom
South Africa51 Posts
I think it boils down to 2 things, mostly because as you move into high level T play, you have to constantly be aggressive which lends itself to loads of stupid disheartening losses until you can find the balance for your aggression. The other of course is TvP, with most terrans having no real idea how to play the MU anymore | ||
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Nomag
Sweden10 Posts
protoss and zerg gains from the opponent being bad and/or not attacking efficiently. their army and economy gets scarier the longer the game goes. terran gains from controlling their opponent and limit their base count and economy which is rare below gm or masters i would say. terrans job is to not let their opponents build up that scary econ (vZ)or get a big dball (vP) which is hard for many i miss facing you terrans :D! so few in plat and dia | ||
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cvt
United States192 Posts
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Tollhouse1
United States80 Posts
Now this isnt a whine about imba or anything but its a skill gap that has arisen since the new nerfs and Toss buffs. Plus, the warp in mechanic for toss puts a buffer to macro vs micro. Where you have to leave a battle to warp in while its going on which compartmentalizes these things in your brain letting you focus on one or the other not both at the same time. (as long as you have good enough mechanics to check when you need to warp in) Terrans though have no such thing and therefore get punished severely for not having the APM to both micro large army engagements, or control a drop with the attack and macro at the same time. This creates a skill gap for players like me who get stuck in Diamond along with no other option viable atm with only mmm to work with since mech isn't very tested or used ever and air Terran is either very all in or you die early on. TvZ on the other hand has a much easier time for Terran. The high sect auto tracking up for turrets with correct timings and a nice push in the front or a drop kills mutas without babying from a zerg. Early infestors need excellent control to keep alive in low numbers. This is why the reactor hellion into +1 drop with combat shields is so effective or a seige tank push in the front with good positioning. These pushes are very hard for zerg to stop on two bases while a Terran can run over all Zergs in the lower leagues with just one. Since these are soooo good and the alternatives are very difficult to accomplish without good unit control and decent mechanics. The addition of a very shitty Terran late game in TvP or TvZ makes it very hard to get out of the higher leagues. While the reason the other races get to the higher leagues is figuring out these dumb one base timings. TvT very boring scan and tank fest enough said with an Air Terran finish while great to win the most frustrating thing in the world to lose a hour long game to bad Air unit control. Overall though the game is nice and balanced at the tippy top while down here we need to put in the time to smash out the hours to figure out how to marco and micro very efficiently while dropping and juggling chainsaws at the same time in TvP. TvZ is very amazing even in the lower leagues with a multitiude of fun and different strats that can get used. TvT will always suck and has sucked since BW dang mech fests. Alright that was my rant on why Terran is getting less and less players hope you enjoyed and see you on the ladder. | ||
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GzStrom
South Africa51 Posts
edit: (this was in repoly to cvt) | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:51 Nomag wrote: i thought of it like this: protoss and zerg gains from the opponent being bad and/or not attacking efficiently. their army and economy gets scarier the longer the game goes. terran gains from controlling their opponent and limit their base count and economy which is rare below gm or masters i would say. terrans job is to not let their opponents build up that scary econ (vZ)or get a big dball (vP) which is hard for many i miss facing you terrans :D! so few in plat and dia This is only your 4th post on TL but I feel you've hit it straight on for any level of play under mid-masters. Not only that, but all the strats/builds that you use to keep your opponent under control (2 rax, 1-1-1) are yelled at for being "cheesy" and "all in". Every Zerg gets angry at Terran but it's the only matchup where they are continuously going hatch first safely -- you don't see that shit in ZvP. Even in PvT you are seeing a lot of early Nexus builds and 1 base protoss builds like 3 gate proxy stargate are incredibly difficult to stop as Terran. | ||
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zimms
Austria561 Posts
This makes a total of 24 TvZ, 13 TvP and 7 TvT for me this season. I know that's a really small amount of games, but at least for me it's true that there aren't many terrans out there. Playing so many TvZs can get frustrating, because if you get impatient once and get caught unsieged you lose the game in a split second. | ||
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allerion
62 Posts
On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote: What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. | ||
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adrenaLinG
Canada676 Posts
On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote: Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. Uhh... really? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
Mvp allins almost every game vs toss. So nah, I dont really think anyone after patch can play tvp late game. Prepatch it was fine at korean level, now even there late game tvp is toss favored. | ||
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Tollhouse1
United States80 Posts
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PopcornColonel
United States769 Posts
On December 14 2011 10:16 Kharnage wrote: My mate doesn't enjoy terran anymore cause he feels they can be abusive and OP. He doesn't feel like his wins are because of his skill but because of his race. He's switching to Zerg season 5. Lolwat... I feel this way about zerg. So easy, units are so cost effective on an a-move. But yeah, Terran is definitely the hardest race to play, in both unit cost effectiveness and APM. | ||
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