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On December 15 2011 21:18 multiversed wrote:
the level of self-delusion in this thread is astonishing. the more i see things like this in society the more i am convinced that people will literally tell themselves anything without regard to facts or the truth to justify anything that they do, or do poorly. perhaps the reason that you guys are platauing and race switching is because you are telling yourselves that you are good enough that your race is the thing that is limiting you, as apposed to developing a multifaceted style of gameplay that requires effort to achieve. the race shouldn't be handing you fee wins, that is why people get angry with terran players... they can be outplayed all game and still win. the same can be said for protoss. while zerg can beat himself countless times. it simply requires a much more refined and flawless effort to win as zerg.
if there is any style that you feel is overpowered, and you haven't played 1000 games trying to overcome it, then you are not as good as you feel you are. period. race is irrelevant. there are some balanace issues but if you get good enough you can overcome them until the highest levels of play.
anything to avoid hard work... right guys? carry on terran qq thread.
theres no reason to write all that when you just can write
this is a terran qq thread
zerg is harder to play
you guys should stop thinking its your races fault that you are not in grandmaster
nice generalization bro
you disgust me
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I think Terran is incredibly boring 
T basically stays on the same unit composition from the 7 min mark to the end of the game, adding in ghosts at certain times depending on the matchup / build. Blizz kind of fucked up T's tech tree so you can get T3 tech in like 8 minutes, so they had to nerf all of T's T3 units. It's just boring....
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On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it.
Terran has the highest skillcap. That doesn't mean its the hardest race to play. So lategame is harder for terran? Well early game is harder for protoss. So you can't split your army and dodge storms, and thus lose the game? I miss a forcefield by a hex, and my 1gate FE goes from safe to game lost. Starcraft is a punishing game and if you make a mistake, or are incapable of doing something, you deserve to lose. 4gate hasn't EVER been a freewin in the last year. The only things I can recall from release til now that could be potentially be considered that was reapers and 1/1/1.
People can think whatever they like, but ultimately they should look to improve themselves, not whine. When I started playing sc2 again after a month off you know what happened? I played 20 games and lost 18 of them, about 10 of them were against terran, and 8 of them did some sort of pressure/allin pulling scv's. I lost to every single pressure/allin, and won only one macro game. Did I get frustrated? Absolutely! Is the game imbalanced? No, I just need to remember and refine my openings to be more safe against the pressures and allins.
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On December 15 2011 21:31 Tollhouse1 wrote:
@allerion I would much rather leave a battle to momentarily gain a micro advantage over a mid to late game toss army that has to a-move storm maybe feedback than lose a 30 supply lead to 3 collosi and 1 storm then die to a warp in of stalkers besides my post wasnt to bitch (while this thread seems to be nothing BUT THAT). It was only to share my opinion on why the game has been seeing a reduction in Terran players in general. (not that i mind anyways TvT sucks) The game is fine and the players that lose now at least in diamond are just doing it to themselves. Besides I have went from a good enough win rate to a shitty one with TvP just because all I used to do was just go ahead and smash a toss with an early to mid game push. Besides I have only been in Diamond for like 2 weeks I havent played at this level for very long and my APM + mechanics are shitty at best so I have a lot of things to work on and I understand why I lose dont worry about that its just very difficult with a shitty late game is all.
EL OH EL
Youve been in diamond for two weeks, so the reason you lose MUST be that terran requires more skill to play, not that the players you are playing are better than you're accustom to.
You see, theres the problem in your thinking. You say that terran has a "shitty" lategame. So when you lose lategame, your mind thinks its ok to say "whelp, terran is bad lategame, nothing i could have done" when that is the absolute worst thing you could do. Every race is fine at every point in time if you play it correctly, ESPECIALLY at a diamond level.
Oh, and not watching your units at the wrong time can lead to insta-gg's, which is why being able to watch your units while macroing is slightly important.
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On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it.
Blizzard MMR system = everyone have 50% of winrate, no matter what, until High masters/GM.
Then, for more than year, Terran had more than 50% winrate in TvP and TvZ in High Masters/GM/Tournaments.
Saying that Terran has "ALWAYS" been the hardest race to play and stating it like it's a know fact, is utter bullshit, because there is absolutly nothing to back that up.
Don't tell me that Terran have higher APM or lower average unspent ressources, because it's not true.
Look at tournaments level replay and put them into SC2 gears...
Here is my results :
Some Terran have high APM, some Protoss have high APM, some Zerg have high APM... it's pretty much equal. I would even say that Orlando was a good example of Protoss having higher APM than Terran. And for the Average unspent ressource/ressource collection rate, Zerg have the lowest most of the time... Then Terran and finally Protoss.
If you wanna back your claim, I invite you to do the same. Download replay pack from pro-players and MLG and show us your results.
I may be wrong, Terran may be the hardest race to play since I only checked so much replay... but some numbers is better than none. And you have none.
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I seen this happening in the beginning. Protoss has extremely good capabilities mid game+, there is still a ton more. Like Hallucinating zealots to take dmg first while your real group flanks, hallucinate air units to fly with warp prism, FF mineral patches, etc.
People who say Protoss takes the lowest amount of skill to play, i highly disagree. You have to get all your spell casting, and unit control down pat to stand any chance. Units and buildings cost the most as Protss, therefore every loss is more unforgiving. You can't queue WG units, so you in order to maximize production you have to wait for (sometimes different) cool downs. Now that every one has the hang of the core mechanics that make Protoss prosper, people are starting to really show what Protoss can do. Whether its too strong, i won't go into that.
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On December 15 2011 21:30 allerion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Well, considering terrans and zergs didnt make bunkers/spines for a while, theres a difference. Ok, let me add that if the build is scouted with sufficient time to respond properly, and still lose because they opponent decided to do that build, then yes, it is a free win. Maybe not 5, but definitely more than 2. And you confuse arrogance with confidence. Terran was the hardest race. Then SC2 came out, and that changed, and since I really doubt you played BW at a very high level, I don't see why you're complaining. Really? What is that reason? Anyway, QXC and Demuslim, to name two very apparent foreigners, have had quite a bit of success with terran.
DeMuslim won the HomeStory Cup in 2010 (when Terran was OP) and has not placed top 3 in a major tournament since. This was way before he broke his arm and he is far from being a top tier pro right now, although he is trying to get back in shape, I watch his stream regularly and nearly every mid-high tier pro foreigner player he bumps into wrecks him, and I say that as a fan . The last tournament QXC came in the top 3 of was the SK Champions Trophy back in May, not really the most prestigious tournament around, and before that the EG Masters Cup in 2010 (when T was OP). Please stop talking out of your ass if you can't be bothered to do the research. The best foreign T around right now is probably Kas (most of the Empire T's are pretty good), who is an online tournament monster but is yet to really perform well in a major LAN tournament, except possibly the WCG where he arguably played weak players then got beat 2-0 by MVP.
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On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran.
Name me all those foreigner terrans that were winning tournaments left and right getting free wins because of the imbalanced and other imba things...
Oh wait..
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I wonder.. looking at the past two months:
What are the best three tournament results for a foreigner Terran/Zerg/Protoss respectively?
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Alright allerion you have trolled enough for one day when responding in the future while trolling please at least give an example of what i could do Thors? BC? mass air? none of these are a valid option in the current meta game these all die to HT and stalker instantly. Just saying your shitty deal with it and your race is op isnt a valid troll response it needs so kind of substance other than LOL YOU THINK YOUR RACE KIND OF SUCKS CHECK OUT HOW BAD MINE IS
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On December 15 2011 21:35 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Not sure why people are responding to allerion, since he's trolling with a total of 4 posts... I do agree with your point about Protoss all-ins though. Terrans have had a great number of all-ins patched out of the game before a proper response was found on the grounds that it was too hard to stop for the opponent. However, sentry all-ins, void ray all-ins, immortal all-ins, and straight up 4 gate are still much harder to stop compared to the effort required to execute. In fact, the only nerf any of those received on those grounds was the void ray back in November of last year.
I guess it would be easier to ignore valid points than argue against them, wouldn't it? Im not even trolling, fyi.
Wait a minute.... let me get this straight.... you want to take the position that sentry allins (which have been figured out), void ray all ins(which require a bit of micro and scouting to hold), immortal all-ins(micro) and a 4gate(lol, terrans losing to 4gate) are better than some of the stuff terran could do right after release? Ask any zerg about speed reapers, or a 2 bunker wall, or what about when a rax didnt require a supply depot?
And you forgot the warpgate nerf. and Flux vanes was never used in a 3gate stargate all in.
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On December 15 2011 21:46 Treziel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:30 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Well, considering terrans and zergs didnt make bunkers/spines for a while, theres a difference. Ok, let me add that if the build is scouted with sufficient time to respond properly, and still lose because they opponent decided to do that build, then yes, it is a free win. Maybe not 5, but definitely more than 2. And you confuse arrogance with confidence. Terran was the hardest race. Then SC2 came out, and that changed, and since I really doubt you played BW at a very high level, I don't see why you're complaining. Really? What is that reason? Anyway, QXC and Demuslim, to name two very apparent foreigners, have had quite a bit of success with terran. DeMuslim won the HomeStory Cup in 2010 (when Terran was OP) and has not placed top 3 in a major tournament since. This was way before he broke his arm and he is far from being a top tier pro right now, although he is trying to get back in shape, I watch his stream regularly and nearly every mid-high tier pro foreigner player he bumps into wrecks him, and I say that as a fan . The last tournament QXC came in the top 3 of was the SK Champions Trophy back in May, not really the most prestigious tournament around, and before that the EG Masters Cup in 2010 (when T was OP). Please stop talking out of your ass if you can't be bothered to do the research. The best foreign T around right now is probably Kas (most of the Empire T's are pretty good), who is an online tournament monster but is yet to really perform well in a major LAN tournament, except possibly the WCG where he arguably played weak players then got beat 2-0 by MVP.
Sjow? Select? Major?
Demuslim is great and he will probably have great result in the future. Same with QxC... but they are not good examples, since QxC is back to school and Demuslim is just back on the scene from a super long break without a PC.
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On December 15 2011 21:41 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Terran has the highest skillcap. That doesn't mean its the hardest race to play. So lategame is harder for terran? Well early game is harder for protoss. So you can't split your army and dodge storms, and thus lose the game? I miss a forcefield by a hex, and my 1gate FE goes from safe to game lost. Starcraft is a punishing game and if you make a mistake, or are incapable of doing something, you deserve to lose. 4gate hasn't EVER been a freewin in the last year. The only things I can recall from release til now that could be potentially be considered that was reapers and 1/1/1. People can think whatever they like, but ultimately they should look to improve themselves, not whine. When I started playing sc2 again after a month off you know what happened? I played 20 games and lost 18 of them, about 10 of them were against terran, and 8 of them did some sort of pressure/allin pulling scv's. I lost to every single pressure/allin, and won only one macro game. Did I get frustrated? Absolutely! Is the game imbalanced? No, I just need to remember and refine my openings to be more safe against the pressures and allins.
Can't you see where the split in needed skills is though? You get 5 minutes into a game, and you have to hit that forcefield within that hex to ensure your survival. Requires attention and reaction in a part of a game where you have plenty to spare. Terran makes it to the late game though, and suddenly they have to do all sorts of micro acrobatics to survive, at a point in the game where you're expected to manage so much macro as well.
Of course, every race has these and they're a part of SC2. That's what makes this game fun to play for many. You overcome these hardships and frustrations and you can see yourself get better. However, the problem many Terrans are finding is that the overcoming of these hardships isn't enough to see improvement. They find ways to beat X, but then turn around and lose later to Y because they don't have an innate (or at least obvious) advantage in tech or economy. You look to improve yourself, but every improvement is shot down by the same level of play as before, just at a different stage in the game.
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On December 15 2011 21:46 Treziel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:30 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Well, considering terrans and zergs didnt make bunkers/spines for a while, theres a difference. Ok, let me add that if the build is scouted with sufficient time to respond properly, and still lose because they opponent decided to do that build, then yes, it is a free win. Maybe not 5, but definitely more than 2. And you confuse arrogance with confidence. Terran was the hardest race. Then SC2 came out, and that changed, and since I really doubt you played BW at a very high level, I don't see why you're complaining. Really? What is that reason? Anyway, QXC and Demuslim, to name two very apparent foreigners, have had quite a bit of success with terran. DeMuslim won the HomeStory Cup in 2010 (when Terran was OP) and has not placed top 3 in a major tournament since. This was way before he broke his arm and he is far from being a top tier pro right now, although he is trying to get back in shape, I watch his stream regularly and nearly every mid-high tier pro foreigner player he bumps into wrecks him, and I say that as a fan . The last tournament QXC came in the top 3 of was the SK Champions Trophy back in May, not really the most prestigious tournament around, and before that the EG Masters Cup in 2010 (when T was OP). Please stop talking out of your ass if you can't be bothered to do the research. The best foreign T around right now is probably Kas (most of the Empire T's are pretty good), who is an online tournament monster but is yet to really perform well in a major LAN tournament, except possibly the WCG where he arguably played weak players then got beat 2-0 by MVP.
QXC, during the summer, was playing very well, as displayed by his all-kill in GSTL
Demuslim was a team ace for EG, kinda hard to say he was "bad". anyway, how many pros play their best on stream?
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On December 15 2011 21:51 allerion wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:35 aksfjh wrote:On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Not sure why people are responding to allerion, since he's trolling with a total of 4 posts... I do agree with your point about Protoss all-ins though. Terrans have had a great number of all-ins patched out of the game before a proper response was found on the grounds that it was too hard to stop for the opponent. However, sentry all-ins, void ray all-ins, immortal all-ins, and straight up 4 gate are still much harder to stop compared to the effort required to execute. In fact, the only nerf any of those received on those grounds was the void ray back in November of last year. I guess it would be easier to ignore valid points than argue against them, wouldn't it? Im not even trolling, fyi. Wait a minute.... let me get this straight.... you want to take the position that sentry allins (which have been figured out), void ray all ins(which require a bit of micro and scouting to hold), immortal all-ins(micro) and a 4gate(lol, terrans losing to 4gate) are better than some of the stuff terran could do right after release? Ask any zerg about speed reapers, or a 2 bunker wall, or what about when a rax didnt require a supply depot? And you forgot the warpgate nerf. and Flux vanes was never used in a 3gate stargate all in.
I am pretty sure he meant the voidrays charged attack damage nerf rather than the flux vanes.
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So funny to see finally the terrans complaining, was about time :D
To the point of terran being harder to play, I tend to disagree. It depends on your skill level. When you start playing sc2 i think protoss and zerg are the hardest to play, simply because if protoss misses one singe forcefield they lose most of the time against early pressure and the young zerg lacks the decision making of either making units or drones. But I think in higher levels terrans have actually a hard time playing against the other races. Im protoss and I am not quite sure, but when i watch zvt with muta/ling/bling its a-move most of the time from the zergs point of view. To the issue of protoss having an easier time engaging terrans, that is not true, but terrans mistakes are a lot less forgiving. Staying in one storm and half your army is dead. Getting emped is not that serious. However, dealing with drop harassment is a pain in the **** , I feel like terrans are just staying in their base, macroeing up and then expect their more mobile force to stand up in a direct engagement, ignoring the fact, that protoss HAS to win every engagement or protoss is dead in the water most of the time. So in my opinion terran has to adapt, go double engi, fast third if they scout double upgrades and drop at multiple locations at once, thats were bio shines, not in a straight up engagement.
PS: I agree that protoss has a lower skill cap and sometimes i feel like that win didnt belong to me, especially against zerg. But if your opponent runs straight into a wall and complains about the wall being there i dont feel for him
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On December 15 2011 21:18 multiversed wrote:
the level of self-delusion in this thread is astonishing. the more i see things like this in society the more i am convinced that people will literally tell themselves anything without regard to facts or the truth to justify anything that they do, or do poorly. perhaps the reason that you guys are platauing and race switching is because you are telling yourselves that you are good enough that your race is the thing that is limiting you, as apposed to developing a multifaceted style of gameplay that requires effort to achieve. the race shouldn't be handing you fee wins, that is why people get angry with terran players... they can be outplayed all game and still win. the same can be said for protoss. while zerg can beat himself countless times. it simply requires a much more refined and flawless effort to win as zerg.
if there is any style that you feel is overpowered, and you haven't played 1000 games trying to overcome it, then you are not as good as you feel you are. period. race is irrelevant. there are some balanace issues but if you get good enough you can overcome them until the highest levels of play.
anything to avoid hard work... right guys? carry on terran qq thread.
What a joke. I agree with the last part. It's just that terrans wants some respect instead of getting bm'ed on ladder. Terran is actually fucking hard and possibly the hardest race to play judging by the amount of terrans on ladder and how no foreigner terran has accomplished anything since TSL 3.
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On December 15 2011 21:48 Tollhouse1 wrote:
Alright allerion you have trolled enough for one day when responding in the future while trolling please at least give an example of what i could do Thors? BC? mass air? none of these are a valid option in the current meta game these all die to HT and stalker instantly. Just saying your shitty deal with it and your race is op isnt a valid troll response it needs so kind of substance other than LOL YOU THINK YOUR RACE KIND OF SUCKS CHECK OUT HOW BAD MINE IS
Im not even trolling. Im just pointing out fallacies in logic, which isn't trolling....
Figure out what you can do by yourself. Im not going to feed you all the answers you need like baby food. I was using zealot/immortal/storm/archon in pvt 2 months before any pro did it in a televised game because I didn't like how pvt was being played at the time. Maybe you could actually experiment with something, not just copy the pros on everything, and not think it sucks when you lose a few games. Destiny and CatZ rip on major for only copying korean builds, its kinda the same thing.
... I wasn't saying that Terran is OP or that Protoss is OP or either is weak. Frankly, thats kinda my point.
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On December 15 2011 21:41 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 21:21 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 21:02 allerion wrote:On December 15 2011 20:36 syllabic wrote:On December 15 2011 20:08 Sfydjklm wrote:
honestly terrans have been freewinning for so long that now when we finally see a somewhat balanced game its nothing short of amusing seeing how horrible your average american/european master+ player truly is.
Especially since half(not going for a hyperbole here) of the high ranked ladder terrans never(nor here) did anything but cheese. What a ridiculous statement. Terran have never gotten free wins. Your average american/european master+ terran player is just as good as the equvalent of zerg/toss, but the race is so demanding and so weak lategame that they have worse results with it. Terran has never gotten free wins? What? um.... did 2010 and at least the first half of 2011 not count or something? 2 months ago when all a terran had to do was 111 and a move... those werent free wins? No? then youre going to have to define a free win, because obviously you think it is something besides "Well, im going to do this, and theres actually nothing they can do about it even if they scout it." Now that terran requires the SMALLEST semblance of thought to play, all these derptastic kids lose, and cry so much, blaming the race, when in actuality they just got out-played or out-thought. Terrans lose because theyre stupid, not because the race is weak. There is a reason MC said he would have won 5 GSL championships by now if he chose terran. And when you could 4 gate to easy wins every game, was protoss getting free wins? So your definition of a free win is a strategy that is possible to win with even if scouted. That covers a very broad range of strategies for every race. Do you really think MC would have won 5 GSLs as terran? Is the reason he said that, because he is very arrogant? Terran has ALWAYS been the hardest race to play, regardless of what you want to believe. There's a reason that only korean pros who practice 12 hours a day have any success with it. Terran has the highest skillcap. That doesn't mean its the hardest race to play. So lategame is harder for terran? Well early game is harder for protoss. So you can't split your army and dodge storms, and thus lose the game? I miss a forcefield by a hex, and my 1gate FE goes from safe to game lost. Starcraft is a punishing game and if you make a mistake, or are incapable of doing something, you deserve to lose. 4gate hasn't EVER been a freewin in the last year. The only things I can recall from release til now that could be potentially be considered that was reapers and 1/1/1. People can think whatever they like, but ultimately they should look to improve themselves, not whine. When I started playing sc2 again after a month off you know what happened? I played 20 games and lost 18 of them, about 10 of them were against terran, and 8 of them did some sort of pressure/allin pulling scv's. I lost to every single pressure/allin, and won only one macro game. Did I get frustrated? Absolutely! Is the game imbalanced? No, I just need to remember and refine my openings to be more safe against the pressures and allins.
Hell yeah it was a fucking free win for some time. Just go through EVERY replay of Naniwa right when people figured out 4 gate after beta. He won every cup 4 gating. He even stated it's the reason he stopped playing for a while because the game was stupid with such an imbalanced build. Want more proof? Look at his MLG(anaheim??) run where he went 22-1 or something. Impressive right? but....
EVERY SINGLE GAME HE 4 GATED, in the open bracket. He won them all. Against terran, zergs, and protoss.
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EPT
