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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
On December 14 2011 02:48 fwaaahh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:46 Doodsmack wrote:
It's pretty clear that Naniwa can't control his emotions after a loss. This is about the 50th time it's been demonstrated. Funny how some progamers are so odd. after 3 straight losses that he poured his heart and soul into. i don't get the simplicity of this community. this will be my last time posting.
Again I'm connecting this incident to past ones. It doesn't only happen after "3 straight losses that he poured his heart and soul into." There's the "CHILL GET OUT," blaming his loss on the map in an on-stage interview during the Blizzard Europe invitational, etc.
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On December 14 2011 02:49 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:34 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:32 Rassefrasse wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Poisonblack wrote:
I feel sorry for Quantic... lol I really do too. I would love to have their take on this incident. In my opinion Naniwa disrespected sports in general. You never see a professional soccer-team ignore the ball during a soccer match just because they cannot pass the group stage. It's a sportmans duty to play a game if there are resources being spent toward casting the game. Seriously, why is it after an incident, we have all these 1-5 post nubs posting on TL? Look, NFL team towards end of the seasons generally send out their bench players for majority of the games, if they don't stand to win anything, (move up in playoff spot, or what not). I don't see how this is any more different than Naniwa probe rushing... You count very much as a newbie too. Then perhaps you should get glasses to help you see better. If Naniwa had played but not used his best strategies, say, something he had prepared for Nestea. That would be comparable to fielding a B-team. The B-teamers will still try their best to win, as this is their chance to shine. In similar way Naniwa could've played a normal game without anything fancy. If the team had hired some bums from the street to wear their jerseys to play the match that would be comparable to what Naniwa did (to a greater extent at least).
If the NFL could, they would hire bums on the street. The thing is, they have a minimum salary and a pretty stringent process to field players, so they're stuck putting their worst players out.
It's basically the same thing -- they put out the guys who they don't consider to be good for anything but practice.
Oh, and there's the whole thing about how those games, as insignificant as they are, still have a slight effect on the team's standing. The Nani/Nestea game literally had no effect on anything and it's idiotic that it even had to be played.
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On December 14 2011 02:51 striderxxx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:49 Shodanss wrote:
This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something. I don't know about a 1yr ban, but some sort of punishment must be handed out to make an example of him to deterrent others from doing the same. Perhaps remove his just earned Code S this one time.
Oh that's right... urgh great.
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On December 14 2011 02:47 hmunkey wrote:
How is this even a big deal? He was already out.
If a tournament includes matches that do not matter in any way whatsoever, of course people will do bullshit. It just so happens that most pros bullshit in ways that entertain fans more than what Nani did.
If you're knocked out of a tournament, you shouldn't still have to play other pointless games. It's stupid and there's nothing on the line. At the very least use placements for seeding or give prize money to the players based on their performance regardless of how far down the line they are.
Edit: This same stuff happens in every professional sport that has pointless games after the regular season. Look at any football team -- every top player just skips the game and the 2nd and 3rd strings are basically just practicing. Obviously the coaches don't give a shit.
Theres a few things wrong with that Edit. For one the players don't skip. They get fined if they skip. The coach sits them for rookies to play. Also, the teams that are out of the playoffs usually do not sit their stars, they play it out and play to win even if it doesnt matter. When the stars are sat out, it is usually the top teams that do it to avoid injury to their top guys before the important games. Naniwa doesnt have that excuse.
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He really shouldn't have done this. It's just too bad.
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On December 14 2011 02:51 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:48 fwaaahh wrote:On December 14 2011 02:46 Doodsmack wrote:
It's pretty clear that Naniwa can't control his emotions after a loss. This is about the 50th time it's been demonstrated. Funny how some progamers are so odd. after 3 straight losses that he poured his heart and soul into. i don't get the simplicity of this community. this will be my last time posting. Again I'm connecting this incident to past ones. It doesn't only happen after "3 straight losses that he poured his heart and soul into." There's the "CHILL GET OUT," blaming his loss on the map in an on-stage interview during the Blizzard Europe invitational, etc.
wait are you really gonna bring up the whole "chill" thing? Thats was chill lagging massively in the final of a 50k tournament. Nani wrote it in middle of the game, and probably just had CL activated and couldnt be bother to write it again.
That is just so irrelevant that i dont even know where to begin.
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I agree that professionalism is definitely a virtue and that Naniwa should have at least tried to put on a better show (although admittedly, the resulting controversy from this is ironically a good deal more entertaining than just watching a 4gate would have been), but I also can easily see where people like Naniwa and IdrA (and perhaps a few other pros as well) are coming from when they say that it's difficult to have the mentality to play at your best in meaningless games. As in many cases where something goes wrong, I don't think the fault lies solely with Naniwa, and we must also acknowledge that a format that has players play "meaningless" games is a flawed one from the point of view of quite a few people. Would it be so hard for people to put their heads together and come up with some awesome tournament format that gets rid of this issue?
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On December 14 2011 02:51 striderxxx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:49 Shodanss wrote:
This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something. I don't know about a 1yr ban, but some sort of punishment must be handed out to make an example of him to deterrent others from doing the same. Perhaps remove his just earned Code S this one time.
I don't think they would ban him from Code S, as there aren't any meaningless games in that tournament. However IMO they should probably fine him a small amount if anything.
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On December 14 2011 02:53 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:51 striderxxx wrote:On December 14 2011 02:49 Shodanss wrote:
This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something. I don't know about a 1yr ban, but some sort of punishment must be handed out to make an example of him to deterrent others from doing the same. Perhaps remove his just earned Code S this one time. What rules did he break again?
Coca didn't break any written rule by throwing a game. It was just obviously unethical. Same thing, with attitudes, albeit of a different magnitude.
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On December 14 2011 02:51 striderxxx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:49 Shodanss wrote:
This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something. I don't know about a 1yr ban, but some sort of punishment must be handed out to make an example of him to deterrent others from doing the same. Perhaps remove his just earned Code S this one time.
Yeah please, could you be so kind to tell off which rule he broke so that he deserves to be punished?
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What I don't get is why they even played the game. With the old up/down format once the winners were determined they did not play out the rest of the games. What changed?
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On December 14 2011 02:55 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:53 zeru wrote:On December 14 2011 02:51 striderxxx wrote:On December 14 2011 02:49 Shodanss wrote:
This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something. I don't know about a 1yr ban, but some sort of punishment must be handed out to make an example of him to deterrent others from doing the same. Perhaps remove his just earned Code S this one time. What rules did he break again? Coca didn't break any written rule by throwing a game. It was just obviously unethical. Same thing, with attitudes, albeit of a different magnitude.
But that wasnt GOM decision, that was slayers kicking him out. Completely different.
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I think the comparisons to professional sports i.e. football basketball etc. are way off base. Yea a team can hold back their "stars" by limiting their time but any 3rd, 4th teamer is dying for that opportunity to show what they can do. They may not be good but you could bet your ass they will leave it all out on the field/court etc.
As for the main issue, its down to either one of two things.
1) He knows what he is doing and he just wants to stick it to some people for the attention. Which I find somewhat hard to believe because in the interviews it honestly seems he is confused on why people think he has poor gamesmanship(i.e. the 1min video with him and squirtle talking about how people loved when mc did the throat slit/thumbs down to idra)
or option
2) That he really doesn't understand why people perceive him as "BM" or a poor sport. Its bad for him as he lacks the swagger and the confidence. Players like Idra/Destinty can pull off the bm role because they have the charisma and confidence to do it.
I can kind of understand why he want to play it out, finishing 4th or 5th at that position whats the point. However you were a invite to a very stacked and exclusive tournament. He should have played it out and showed why he was selected to begin with.
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On December 14 2011 02:54 HolyArrow wrote:
I agree that professionalism is definitely a virtue and that Naniwa should have at least tried to put on a better show (although admittedly, the resulting controversy from this is ironically a good deal more entertaining than just watching a 4gate would have been), but I also can easily see where people like Naniwa and IdrA (and perhaps a few other pros as well) are coming from when they say that it's difficult to have the mentality to play at your best in meaningless games. As in many cases where something goes wrong, I don't think the fault lies solely with Naniwa, and we must also acknowledge that a format that has players play "meaningless" games is a flawed one from the point of view of quite a few people. Would it be so hard for people to put their heads together and come up with some awesome tournament format that gets rid of this issue?
The thing is, the game was only meaningless to him. Getting to show you can beat one of the best in the world in a rematch is important to most people (players included). Guy has no respect or class.
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Sigh. Okay, this back and forth is getting pretty stupid. Some say he should be punished, others praise him for making his choice. The point is, don't expect any tournaments to take him seriously ever again with this continual behavior. Yes, it may not be fair, but people's perceptions of him for sponsors is not great at the moment.
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On December 14 2011 02:45 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:42 Subversive wrote:On December 14 2011 02:38 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:34 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:23 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:20 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 aebriol wrote:
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Again, what league are you in? And yes, I am sure you can win ... if you are master league against gold or bronze or some shit, but as a master league zerg - no you cannot win it is straight up impossible. Regardless of how insane your micro skills are - if the opponent isn't a moron with no skills ... which NesTea isn't.
There was 0% chance he could win that game regardless of what NesTea did. That is what people are annoyed about. theoretically a bot can out micro a human, I don't see why a human can't outmicro another human. in pure theory, a 7 probe rush could totally work. Theoretically I could win the lottery tomorrow and win 150 million. That is about the same chance as Naniwa winning that game ... probably higher, if you don't include NesTea having a sudden illness leaving him unable to control his units ... Is it the same chances as Naniwa winning with a double gate? Nah double proxy gate I'd expect have a 2-5% chance of winning ... either way, I am done arguing with you, because I cannot combat pure stupidity on this level by reasoned arguments. So by increasing his chances of winning from .01% to a 2-5% he's in the all-clear? lol, the hypocrisy. By actually attempting to win no matter how stupid the strategy, he would be. Everyone would know he didn't play his best, but he would have tried. Also, it's not 0.01%, it's not even 0.000001%, so it's more like giving himself more than 10 million times the chance of winning ... since it's going from 0 in 10 000 games, to 1 in 20. The intent is still the same, no matter how the math works out. Seriously, in a bo1, cheesing is pretty much an intent of "I don't really want to play this game, lets get this out of the way." Plus no one expects the 7 probe rush! When people cheese they usually want to win. Naniwa didn't try to win this game. Analogy dead. Yes, because everyone who double gates in professional tourneys in a Round Robin format, totally expect to win a a game against Nestea.... 7 probe rush, just as legitimate imo. Its just a different form. With that being said. I'm determined to figure out the fastest way to lose a game without prematurely GGing.
If you really want to continue this ridiculous wreck of an argument, you might consider to at least cook up a shady replay showing how you win a game with this "legitimate strategy" that is a 7-probe rush.
Otherwise you might as well drop the argument entirely, because 1000 posts or not, it does make you look like a troll.
Yes, cheesing in a game to win, is at least trying (maybe desperately) to win. Rushing with 7 probes (and then not even microing them) is not ...
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On December 14 2011 02:57 Reaper9 wrote:
Sigh. Okay, this back and forth is getting pretty stupid. Some say he should be punished, others praise him for making his choice. The point is, don't expect any tournaments to take him seriously ever again with this continual behavior. Yes, it may not be fair, but people's perceptions of him for sponsors is not great at the moment.
Exactly. I hope his punishment such as it is, shall be tournaments going out of their way not to invite him.
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On December 14 2011 02:56 lvent wrote:
I think the comparisons to professional sports i.e. football basketball etc. are way off base. Yea a team can hold back their "stars" by limiting their time but any 3rd, 4th teamer is dying for that opportunity to show what they can do. They may not be good but you could bet your ass they will leave it all out on the field/court etc.
As for the main issue, its down to either one of two things.
1) He knows what he is doing and he just wants to stick it to some people for the attention. Which I find somewhat hard to believe because in the interviews it honestly seems he is confused on why people think he has poor gamesmanship(i.e. the 1min video with him and squirtle talking about how people loved when mc did the throat slit/thumbs down to idra)
or option
2) That he really doesn't understand why people perceive him as "BM" or a poor sport. Its bad for him as he lacks the swagger and the confidence. Players like Idra/Destinty can pull off the bm role because they have the charisma and confidence to do it.
I can kind of understand why he want to play it out, finishing 4th or 5th at that position whats the point. However you were a invite to a very stacked and exclusive tournament. He should have played it out and showed why he was selected to begin with.
Yeah, I'm starting to believe this too. Something in his social skills sense doesn't work as intended apparently. He just doesn't seem to understand these things.
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i think he should be ban from gsl events. I payed to watch this ... really? SO childish!!!
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EPT
