EPTIf everybody who didn't stand to gain anything threw their matches, there would be a lot less opportunity for a return on investment for the people who are paying for this. If I was running the event, I would have been furious that Nani threw it like that.
NaNi vs NesTea (SPOILERS) - Page 52
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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. | ||
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FaZe
Canada472 Posts
If everybody who didn't stand to gain anything threw their matches, there would be a lot less opportunity for a return on investment for the people who are paying for this. If I was running the event, I would have been furious that Nani threw it like that. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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iG.Forever
Korea (South)148 Posts
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:52 Wipples wrote: Theres a few things wrong with that Edit. For one the players don't skip. They get fined if they skip. The coach sits them for rookies to play. Also, the teams that are out of the playoffs usually do not sit their stars, they play it out and play to win even if it doesnt matter. When the stars are sat out, it is usually the top teams that do it to avoid injury to their top guys before the important games. Naniwa doesnt have that excuse. Ok so they don't skip, they sit on the side without wearing their full uniform. Sorry. And playing a game out to win means you use your best players. If you deliberately keep your stars out, you are no longer playing a game to win. Having bad players try their hardest does not mean a team as a whole is actually taking the game seriously or they wouldn't have fielded their bad players to begin with. Regardless, my main point was simply that the matches didn't matter at all. Why would Gom keep completely pointless matches in their tourney? It's absolutely absurd and I don't think Nani should be receiving criticism for "throwing a game" that doesn't make any difference. The end result is the same. If I stole $100 from your wallet and put another $100 in it without you noticing, no one would give a shit. The end result would be the same and the fact that I stole while I replaced wouldn't make any difference. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
While I don´t this deserved this kind of crapstorm naniwa is a pro gamer. Time to show the pro in progamer, if he can´t do that then he shouldn´t be surprised when people call him out. While I don´t really like to talk #esports crap like this is why western esports will never be like Korean esports in BW, Koreans got a serious scene because they expected seriousness and all player and that is why they had esports on TV for 10 years.Again this shows how different we see the whole thing, for Koreans this is a sport where we excpect players to at least give us a show, foreigners see it as just a game where the other guy can just give up as if it was us playing ladder. Now lets talk about the real losers here, Gomtv and his sponsors who were made look like a joke, Quantic and its sponsors who again, were made look like a joke, the fans who were denied a game. And all because of what? Because naniwa felt like not playing. Again I am not really upset,I just hope this serves as a growing opportunity for naniwa and western esports in general. Hell I don´t even know why people compare this to real sports, when if in real sports a team refused to show up to the field would be bashed by its fans, hell teams are bashed when they perform badly. This apologist crap does not help anyone | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
In my mind I compare his attitude to someone like John the translator or the BW commentators. So much endless passion. And then there's people like Naniwa who, when he's on tilt and can't see a dollar sign at the end of it, just pisses on the game and competition. | ||
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softan
Sweden113 Posts
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:52 hmunkey wrote: If the NFL could, they would hire bums on the street. The thing is, they have a minimum salary and a pretty stringent process to field players, so they're stuck putting their worst players out. It's basically the same thing -- they put out the guys who they don't consider to be good for anything but practice. Oh, and there's the whole thing about how those games, as insignificant as they are, still have a slight effect on the team's standing. The Nani/Nestea game literally had no effect on anything and it's idiotic that it even had to be played. You know very well that they wouldn't. Those games are good practise for the benchwarmers and that is why they are often seen playing such games. That is a false analogy. Naniwa played not to win at all. The B-teamers will still play to win and despite not being that good, they are quite competent. It did have effect on Nestea as he wanted revenge and Naniwa even went as far as to taunt him in the interviews. Why are these points so hard to understand? | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:49 Shodanss wrote: This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something. they didnt ban Bitbyebit for goign marine scv allin five times in a row, so i rather doubt it | ||
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Secret05
United States342 Posts
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Switchy
343 Posts
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:59 iG.Forever wrote: tourney might have been a little flawed but i feel like this tourney was more about publicity of sc2 than anything else. They chose top 10 sc2 players that they believed to be the best and made it so they made sure the top players played each other at least once in their groups. And plus another reason why i think this is for publicity is because Gomtv is bring IU, probably one of the most popular singers atm in korea to perform at the finals. coincidence i think not. If that's the case, the tourney is a marketing tool. Pay every player based on their performance then -- you know, the same way all ads pay actors. At least that way the game's result wouldn't have been 100% worthless since there would be some money on the line. As it stands, the game shouldn't have even been in the tourney. FWIW: I think Nani was being an asshole, but that shouldn't really matter. We should use this opportunity to address a bigger issue than one player acting stupid. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
"dont have meaningless matches if you want players to take them seriously." People need to get over themselves on this one. When there's no incentive to perform well, why the hell would a player waste valuable time and energy? Naniwa is a results driven player. When there are no more results within his grasp, it should come as no surprise to anyone that he stops trying. I don't really blame him either. He's kept us all well informed about why he plays Starcraft 2 and why he practices (hint: he wants to win). | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:02 Geo.Rion wrote: they didnt ban Bitbyebit for goign marine scv allin five times in a row, so i rather doubt it Dude won a tonne of games doing that. They were designed to win and they did. When they stopped winning, he was knocked out. Nothing similar to Naniwa at all. | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:56 Subversive wrote: The thing is, the game was only meaningless to him. Getting to show you can beat one of the best in the world in a rematch is important to most people (players included). Guy has no respect or class. I agree that from the standpoint of one's prestige/respect as a player, a game is never truly "meaningless", and that many people share this viewpoint, but it's important to empathize with people who see things more pragmatically (i.e in terms of tournament winnings and such). I still hold that there's no reason why GOM or any other tournament for that matter can't come up with formats that simply prevent players from feeling like a match is meaningless. Then, players have no excuse to not always give it their all (when there's real hope of a comeback of sorts rather than seeing that they're 0-3 in this group format style and knowing that absolutely nothing will save them). Tournaments will also likely suffer less embarrassing spectacles like this, and viewers will be happier with the better games that are produced overall. Everybody wins. | ||
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Dexington
Canada7276 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:02 Geo.Rion wrote: they didnt ban Bitbyebit for goign marine scv allin five times in a row, so i rather doubt it HAHAHAHA what? He was WINNING with that strategy. Naniwa can't win past bronze with a probe rush. | ||
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Lorch
Germany3682 Posts
Neither nestea nor naniwa got anything from that game the only bad thing I could see is that the fans didn't get to see an epic pvz, but got damn it both are players first and that game didn't matter at all, hell I would have probably done the same or done some stupid cheese. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:05 Lorch wrote: Please what? Why the fuck does this cause an uproar? The game didn't matter whatsoever and he threw it. I don't see the problem here. All nestea had to do was a move his drones, free win for him I don't see why that would upset anyone. Did anyone bitch about bitbybit doing that shit all the time in games that actually mattered? Neither nestea nor naniwa got anything from that game the only bad thing I could see is that the fans didn't get to see an epic pvz, but got damn it both are players first and that game didn't matter at all, hell I would have probably done the same or done some stupid cheese. Hahahaha lol.. Bitbybit actually was trying to win those games... And it actually worked out pretty damn fine for him | ||
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
On December 14 2011 03:04 HolyArrow wrote: I agree that from the standpoint of one's prestige/respect as a player, a game is never truly "meaningless", and that many people share this viewpoint, but it's important to empathize with people who see things more pragmatically (i.e in terms of tournament winnings and such). I still hold that there's no reason why GOM or any other tournament for that matter can't come up with formats that simply prevent players from feeling like a match is meaningless. Then, players have no excuse to not always give it their all (when there's real hope of a comeback of sorts rather than seeing that they're 0-3 in this group format style and knowing that absolutely nothing will save them). Tournaments will also likely suffer less embarrassing spectacles like this, and viewers will be happier with the better games that are produced overall. Everybody wins. Agreed, he should have won something more, the format wasn't thought out. Having said that, players do showmatches all the time with little financially on the line (not to mention he's already being paid to play these matches). At the least he could have gone a quirky strategy, made it fun for the fans. This is the difference between someone like Boxer and someone like Naniwa. And it is a big difference. | ||
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Chytilova
United States790 Posts
On December 14 2011 02:42 mordk wrote: You go to NesTea and GOM and say, "I want to forfeit". It's pretty simple actually, it's called TALKING! QFT. If Nani didn't want to play because he was upset he should have said something. Letting people think a legitimate game was going to happen then just (basically) leave the game isn't right. | ||
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