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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
On December 14 2011 03:16 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions. Teams do that all the time. The crowd doesn't boo, they just leave the stadium or don't even buy tickets in the first place. The whole reason teams aren't trying is because there are no repercussions. You just don't hear about it because traditional sports audiences are mature enough to understand the point of competition.
What? No they don't, and when they do it sucks. One of the reasons I love my favorite football club is because they'll play every match like it's the last in their lives.
And don't start with the "benching stars" and stuff. These matches are usually a great oportunity for young talents to show themselves and for tired players to rest and recover from exhausting seasons.
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On December 14 2011 03:12 Lorch wrote:
I hope this shit gets adressed at sotg so people stop bitching and just agree with what everyone will say (aka what idra/tyler already posted on twitter), this thread shouldn't even have more than 2 pages.
I'm guessing SotG people will be quite split on this...
Tyler is apparently on the player's side (on Naniwa's side actually, because Nestea fans don't feel the same), but I can't say that Incontrol will agree that easily.
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On December 14 2011 03:16 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions. Teams do that all the time. The crowd doesn't boo, they just leave the stadium or don't even buy tickets in the first place. The whole reason teams aren't trying is because there are no repercussions. You just don't hear about it because traditional sports audiences are mature enough to understand the point of competition.
What? When in professional sports has this happened? I have never seen at least a televised game where this has happened, the team would be ridiculed and there would be a gigantic uproar.
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On December 14 2011 03:18 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:16 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions. Teams do that all the time. The crowd doesn't boo, they just leave the stadium or don't even buy tickets in the first place. The whole reason teams aren't trying is because there are no repercussions. You just don't hear about it because traditional sports audiences are mature enough to understand the point of competition. What? No they don't, and when they do it sucks. One of the reasons I love my favorite football club is because they'll play every match like it's the last in their lives. And don't start with the "benching stars" and stuff. These matches are usually a great oportunity for young talents to show themselves and for tired players to rest and recover from exhausting seasons.
What? When has a team in cricket/soccer/any of the various football codes ever just come onto a stadium and not played? What a dumb thing to say.
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On December 14 2011 03:14 Kon-Tiki wrote:
I like what MC had to say about it. Naniwa acted like a total, raging, inconsiderate douchebag. He really needs to be more considerate of the fans and other players in the future.
That said, does he need to be punished? No, not really. Let's be reasonable: he didn't break any laws or rules or anything. It just needs to be recognized that Naniwa has a propensity for douchebaggery (say that five times fast) and that maybe tournaments don't want to invite him back until he grows up a little bit.
Well ... Coca lost his spot, Choya got 1 season ban for ladder abuse ... I think that it's been made clear before that doing stuff like this isn't acceptable to gomtv.
Will it matter for dreamhack mlg nasl etc? Obviously not. But the GSL? I would expect him to get banned for some period of time.
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On December 14 2011 02:56 lvent wrote:I can kind of understand why he want to play it out, finishing 4th or 5th at that position whats the point. However you were a invite to a very stacked and exclusive tournament. He should have played it out and showed why he was selected to begin with.
thank you for this! I really hope someone will read this. I can see why Naniwa did it, i'm not really mad or anything, but it is just kind of disappointing when theres potential for a good match, and at least possibly leave the tournament with a win and be all goody goody in the PR sense.
I think in a lot of ways, the personality/social space of SC2 is still being figured out in terms of the athletes becoming stars and sports PR. Anyone who's a professional player, hockey, football whatever, coordinates with an agent to navigate and advise during times when off-the-field ramifications, like contracts or reputation, are involved. For example the twitters of some athletes are managed by an agency, so as to remove any possibility of a player going off and saying something dumb on twitter, and hurting a franchise/agency or whatever. Essentially the PR game is super-positive, sugar coated to some extent, for the better of all fans/money. What keeps this equation going is the "professionalism" of all parties involved.
So as SC2 fans, we see very natural and 'undistorted' or 'unaltered by PR' personalities and displays of personality (also because of a unique sport format that can inherently show one's personality, the RTS). Unfortunately, i think in some ways, Naniwa is a victim of esports not being so fully developed, and maybe not having a quantic manager/agent or someone on hand, or even a coach (!) like in other sports to be able to receive frustrations/honesty on behalf of the players.
Could Naniwa have better ascribed to this 'professional' paradigm by doing something like a 4gate instead? It seems like that would at least be more agreeable than the probe rush, at least in fan's eyes, and people can interpret 4gate zvp (against nestea no less) as Nani not caring/being frustrated, but still responding to some pressure/paradigm of professionalism and respecting the parties involved, and fans watching. I think the furthering of this idea/spectrum is actually playing a legit macro game and trying hard, but I can imagine Naniwa was exhausted and disappointed. I think we can all agree the probe rush has 0% chance of success, to argue that is just silly. But what actually occurred though, this uniquely divisive probe rush display, could only have occured in an SC2 realm, because other athletes of other sports would've been stopped by a coach before scoring on themselves, or legions of fans would've booed or thrown cups on the field and it'd become a viral video, sportscenter highlight, or something similar. But we also have to consider that this is Korea, and we know their ideals/morals are distinct from certain Western ideas. I think most koreans essentially put the 'professionalism' first, even if playing for money, they have a goal to "show good games." We saw that Nestea was likely going to play a "standard" game, at least playing normal to the point where he roach/ling all ins.
Is there any long term ramifications of this? No, it's not the biggest deal, but I do think it highlights a unique part of being an SC2 fan/player and the changing idea of Esports, as more money gets involved and the idea of "pro" evolves, and what expectations we put on our progamers. For example, although IdrA may have someday been capable of this, since his time in EG he has started to manner up *in tournament games* and seems to recognize that there are ramifications for navigating the 'social'/reputation space of SC progaming. In spite of the occasional ragequit, at least when he does it super early (like infamously vs mma), he said gg like maybe IdrA wouldn't have in the past. I mean, the dude even made highlight videos "brought to you by Kingston HyperX RAM!" and always thanks his sponsors and such during interviews. So IdrA stays with his contract with EG, and continues to rise in terms of a high profile programer, where as similar players who respond to the paradigm in a similar way to IdrA (at least internally) like Destiny and Naniwa, seem to be losing contracts or getting traded, divided in fans eyes and reputation. I think these things are important. I think that the sponsors definitely care who they represent because they don't play the game really, they only concern with the "professional" aspects of it, the business side.
If you were to ask me, I think he probably should've just played the game, and I wouldn't have been as sad to see a bad cheese like 4gate and everybody just move on. But I just wanted to point out that this is an interesting event to have happened in this scene at this time.
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I love how all 3 of us start our reply to him with "what?"
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On December 14 2011 03:07 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:02 Squeegy wrote:On December 14 2011 02:52 hmunkey wrote:On December 14 2011 02:49 Squeegy wrote:On December 14 2011 02:34 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:32 Rassefrasse wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Poisonblack wrote:
I feel sorry for Quantic... lol I really do too. I would love to have their take on this incident. In my opinion Naniwa disrespected sports in general. You never see a professional soccer-team ignore the ball during a soccer match just because they cannot pass the group stage. It's a sportmans duty to play a game if there are resources being spent toward casting the game. Seriously, why is it after an incident, we have all these 1-5 post nubs posting on TL? Look, NFL team towards end of the seasons generally send out their bench players for majority of the games, if they don't stand to win anything, (move up in playoff spot, or what not). I don't see how this is any more different than Naniwa probe rushing... You count very much as a newbie too. Then perhaps you should get glasses to help you see better. If Naniwa had played but not used his best strategies, say, something he had prepared for Nestea. That would be comparable to fielding a B-team. The B-teamers will still try their best to win, as this is their chance to shine. In similar way Naniwa could've played a normal game without anything fancy. If the team had hired some bums from the street to wear their jerseys to play the match that would be comparable to what Naniwa did (to a greater extent at least). If the NFL could, they would hire bums on the street. The thing is, they have a minimum salary and a pretty stringent process to field players, so they're stuck putting their worst players out. It's basically the same thing -- they put out the guys who they don't consider to be good for anything but practice. Oh, and there's the whole thing about how those games, as insignificant as they are, still have a slight effect on the team's standing. The Nani/Nestea game literally had no effect on anything and it's idiotic that it even had to be played. You know very well that they wouldn't. Those games are good practise for the benchwarmers and that is why they are often seen playing such games. That is a false analogy. Naniwa played not to win at all. The B-teamers will still play to win and despite not being that good, they are quite competent. It did have effect on Nestea as he wanted revenge and Naniwa even went as far as to taunt him in the interviews. Why are these points so hard to understand? I'm not comparing Naniwa to the 3rd string NFL players, I'm comparing him to the coach -- you know, the guy in charge of the team's strategy and planning. In these situations, the coach is not playing to win. He's playing because he has to and he's more worried about improving for the next season. And it had an effect on Nestea's feelings? Really? Are we basing judgments on a player on how their actions affected other peoples' emotions now? Then what do we say to all the players who cheese, all-in, and otherwise bm? Either be consistent or stop being critical for the wrong reasons.
Even so, you're not making a proper analogy at all. Naniwa essentially forfeited. If the coach were to field a lineup of bums while having a scarecrow to pose as him on the field, that is more what Naniwa did.
Cheese and all-in aren't BM. You seem to be confused about terms. And yes, we are. I understand that it may be a new concept to you people new to the SC scene but generally manners are highly regarded here. Then again if you're going to taunt someone and then pull a stunt like that when the actual grudge match is happening, I think it is rather universally frowned upon. Moreover, I am quite consistent about this and I don't see what would constitute a wrong reason.
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On December 14 2011 03:17 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:16 TheWonderbread wrote:
Complain about professionalism then flame people on twitter, yeah good call.
Honestly what Naniwa did was disrespectful, but not unprofessional. The burden is on GOM though, not Naniwa, because he didn't break any fucking rules or do anything wrong. He just gave up, big deal.
If GOM wants to make sure this kind of behavior doesn't happen again they should impose something prohibiting players from doing this, or format their group stages such that they don't end up in scenarios where a player could honestly give two shits about what happens. Or ban Naniwa because despite the fact that people can do it, only he does.
That's fine with me. It's GOM's tournament and they can do whatever they want, I'm just saying wholly speaking that he didn't break any rules.
I don't see how the entire korean esports scene has the audacity to tell him that he can't be a progamer anymore.
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On December 14 2011 03:20 travis wrote:
I love how all 3 of us start our reply to him with "what?"
Lol yeah. It's mind-boggling what he said. All those games you see on tv where the crowd silently leaves the stadium because their team didn't feel in the mood to play that day. It's like something out of a bizarre sci-fi plot.
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On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions.
In other sports the people who matter simply don't play. Actually, in other sports there are pretty much no pointless games since players are paid regardless of the importance of the match.
But despite that, everyone's ignoring the key issue -- athletes have a tangible incentive to perform well even in games that don't help them advance because they get paid for it. Naniwa/Nestea had no incentive other than abstract concepts like "pride" and "honor."
Can you really find me an example from traditional sports where the competitors are expected to actually try hard without getting anything in return? Because I can't.
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On December 14 2011 03:20 Squeegy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:07 hmunkey wrote:On December 14 2011 03:02 Squeegy wrote:On December 14 2011 02:52 hmunkey wrote:On December 14 2011 02:49 Squeegy wrote:On December 14 2011 02:34 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:32 Rassefrasse wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Poisonblack wrote:
I feel sorry for Quantic... lol I really do too. I would love to have their take on this incident. In my opinion Naniwa disrespected sports in general. You never see a professional soccer-team ignore the ball during a soccer match just because they cannot pass the group stage. It's a sportmans duty to play a game if there are resources being spent toward casting the game. Seriously, why is it after an incident, we have all these 1-5 post nubs posting on TL? Look, NFL team towards end of the seasons generally send out their bench players for majority of the games, if they don't stand to win anything, (move up in playoff spot, or what not). I don't see how this is any more different than Naniwa probe rushing... You count very much as a newbie too. Then perhaps you should get glasses to help you see better. If Naniwa had played but not used his best strategies, say, something he had prepared for Nestea. That would be comparable to fielding a B-team. The B-teamers will still try their best to win, as this is their chance to shine. In similar way Naniwa could've played a normal game without anything fancy. If the team had hired some bums from the street to wear their jerseys to play the match that would be comparable to what Naniwa did (to a greater extent at least). If the NFL could, they would hire bums on the street. The thing is, they have a minimum salary and a pretty stringent process to field players, so they're stuck putting their worst players out. It's basically the same thing -- they put out the guys who they don't consider to be good for anything but practice. Oh, and there's the whole thing about how those games, as insignificant as they are, still have a slight effect on the team's standing. The Nani/Nestea game literally had no effect on anything and it's idiotic that it even had to be played. You know very well that they wouldn't. Those games are good practise for the benchwarmers and that is why they are often seen playing such games. That is a false analogy. Naniwa played not to win at all. The B-teamers will still play to win and despite not being that good, they are quite competent. It did have effect on Nestea as he wanted revenge and Naniwa even went as far as to taunt him in the interviews. Why are these points so hard to understand? I'm not comparing Naniwa to the 3rd string NFL players, I'm comparing him to the coach -- you know, the guy in charge of the team's strategy and planning. In these situations, the coach is not playing to win. He's playing because he has to and he's more worried about improving for the next season. And it had an effect on Nestea's feelings? Really? Are we basing judgments on a player on how their actions affected other peoples' emotions now? Then what do we say to all the players who cheese, all-in, and otherwise bm? Either be consistent or stop being critical for the wrong reasons. Even so, you're not making a proper analogy at all. Naniwa essentially forfeited. If the coach were to field a lineup of bums while having a scarecrow to pose as him on the field, that is more what Naniwa did. Cheese and all-in aren't BM. You seem to be confused about terms. And yes, we are. I understand that it may be a new concept to you people new to the SC scene but generally manners are highly regarded here. Then again if you're going to taunt someone and then pull a stunt like that when the actual grudge match is happening, I think it is rather universally frowned upon. Moreover, I am quite consistent about this and I don't see what would constitute a wrong reason.
I just love what he said in his interview pre the games versus what he did.
So if you suffer a bad loss in the groups early on, do you think you can bounce back?
It doesn't matter to me in other games if I win or lose the previous match, I just treat each match like it's the same thing, and give it my best.
You have some MLG rematches in your group. Against Nestea, where there was some controversy in your match, and versus Leenock, who you lost to in the finals. How do you think the games will go this time?
Nestea, I expect to win against, but I don't know how much he has practiced and what he has prepared.
Clearly 
On December 14 2011 03:21 TheWonderbread wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:17 Subversive wrote:On December 14 2011 03:16 TheWonderbread wrote:
Complain about professionalism then flame people on twitter, yeah good call.
Honestly what Naniwa did was disrespectful, but not unprofessional. The burden is on GOM though, not Naniwa, because he didn't break any fucking rules or do anything wrong. He just gave up, big deal.
If GOM wants to make sure this kind of behavior doesn't happen again they should impose something prohibiting players from doing this, or format their group stages such that they don't end up in scenarios where a player could honestly give two shits about what happens. Or ban Naniwa because despite the fact that people can do it, only he does. That's fine with me. It's GOM's tournament and they can do whatever they want, I'm just saying wholly speaking that he didn't break any rules. I don't see how the entire korean esports scene has the audacity to tell him that he can't be a progamer anymore.
They're big on respect over there.
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On December 14 2011 03:23 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions. In other sports the people who matter simply don't play. Actually, in other sports there are pretty much no pointless games since players are paid regardless of the importance of the match. But despite that, everyone's ignoring the key issue -- athletes have a tangible incentive to perform well even in games that don't help them advance because they get paid for it. Naniwa/Nestea had no incentive other than abstract concepts like "pride" and "honor." Can you really find me an example from traditional sports where the competitors are expected to actually try hard without getting anything in return? Because I can't.
How about you give us an example of these "other sports" where the teams or players didn't bother to play.
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On December 14 2011 03:19 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:16 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions. Teams do that all the time. The crowd doesn't boo, they just leave the stadium or don't even buy tickets in the first place. The whole reason teams aren't trying is because there are no repercussions. You just don't hear about it because traditional sports audiences are mature enough to understand the point of competition. What? When in professional sports has this happened? I have never seen at least a televised game where this has happened, the team would be ridiculed and there would be a gigantic uproar.
What do you call it when a team throws out their B-list players and just lets them dick around?
Was Naniwa supposed to bust out his A-game? Why would you expect a results driven player to try their best...fun funsies?
Or did you want him to play Goldilocks where he didn't really try but tried hard enough to entertain you?
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On December 14 2011 03:19 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:18 mordk wrote:On December 14 2011 03:16 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions. Teams do that all the time. The crowd doesn't boo, they just leave the stadium or don't even buy tickets in the first place. The whole reason teams aren't trying is because there are no repercussions. You just don't hear about it because traditional sports audiences are mature enough to understand the point of competition. What? No they don't, and when they do it sucks. One of the reasons I love my favorite football club is because they'll play every match like it's the last in their lives. And don't start with the "benching stars" and stuff. These matches are usually a great oportunity for young talents to show themselves and for tired players to rest and recover from exhausting seasons. What? When has a team in cricket/soccer/any of the various football codes ever just come onto a stadium and not played? What a dumb thing to say.
The team plays, but the good players don't. That's a key distinction we have to make because SC2 isn't a team sport. By not fielding the good players, the coach/manager is showing he doesn't actually care about the game.
In golf and tennis there really aren't any pointless games; the athletes are paid for any performances. Of course this is ignoring charity matches and the like...
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On December 14 2011 03:20 Chessz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:56 lvent wrote:I can kind of understand why he want to play it out, finishing 4th or 5th at that position whats the point. However you were a invite to a very stacked and exclusive tournament. He should have played it out and showed why he was selected to begin with. thank you for this! I really hope someone will read this. I can see why Naniwa did it, i'm not really mad or anything, but it is just kind of disappointing when theres potential for a good match, and at least possibly leave the tournament with a win and be all goody goody in the PR sense. I think in a lot of ways, the personality/social space of SC2 is still being figured out in terms of the athletes becoming stars and sports PR. Anyone who's a professional player, hockey, football whatever, coordinates with an agent to navigate and advise during times when off-the-field ramifications, like contracts or reputation, are involved. For example the twitters of some athletes are managed by an agency, so as to remove any possibility of a player going off and saying something dumb on twitter, and hurting a franchise/agency or whatever. Essentially the PR game is super-positive, sugar coated to some extent, for the better of all fans/money. What keeps this equation going is the "professionalism" of all parties involved. So as SC2 fans, we see very natural and 'undistorted' or 'unaltered by PR' personalities and displays of personality (also because of a unique sport format that can inherently show one's personality, the RTS). Unfortunately, i think in some ways, Naniwa is a victim of esports not being so fully developed, and maybe not having a quantic manager/agent or someone on hand, or even a coach (!) like in other sports to be able to receive frustrations/honesty on behalf of the players. Could Naniwa have better ascribed to this 'professional' paradigm by doing something like a 4gate instead? It seems like that would at least be more agreeable than the probe rush, at least in fan's eyes, and people can interpret 4gate zvp (against nestea no less) as Nani not caring/being frustrated, but still responding to some pressure/paradigm of professionalism and respecting the parties involved, and fans watching. I think the furthering of this idea/spectrum is actually playing a legit macro game and trying hard, but I can imagine Naniwa was exhausted and disappointed. I think we can all agree the probe rush has 0% chance of success, to argue that is just silly. But what actually occurred though, this uniquely divisive probe rush display, could only have occured in an SC2 realm, because other athletes of other sports would've been stopped by a coach before scoring, or legions of fans would've booed or thrown cups on the field and it'd become a viral video, sportscenter highlight, or something similar. But we also have to consider that this is Korea, and we know their ideals/morals are distinct from certain Western ideas. I think most koreans essentially put the 'professionalism' first, even if playing for money, they have a goal to "show good games." We saw that Nestea was likely going to play a "standard" game, at least playing normal to the point where he roach/ling all ins. Is there any long term ramifications of this? No, it's not the biggest deal, but I do think it highlights a unique part of being an SC2 fan/player and the changing idea of Esports, as more money gets involved and the idea of "pro" evolves, and what expectations we put on our progamers. If you were to ask me, I think he probably should've just played the game, and I wouldn't have been as sad to see a bad cheese like 4gate and everybody just move on. But I just wanted to point out that this is an interesting event to have happened in this scene at this time.
This is what the real point of all this is to me. It's not just about Naniwa, it's about the generally accepted behavior and conduct of the players in a sport that is trying to push itself to the mainstream. Stuff like this shouldn't happen, but it also certainly shouldn't be condoned and I think a lot of people need to hold this game and this sport (or e-sport) to a higher standard. A sports player would call something like this "disrespecting the game" and it really is true in cases like this.
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On December 14 2011 03:25 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:19 travis wrote:On December 14 2011 03:16 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions. Teams do that all the time. The crowd doesn't boo, they just leave the stadium or don't even buy tickets in the first place. The whole reason teams aren't trying is because there are no repercussions. You just don't hear about it because traditional sports audiences are mature enough to understand the point of competition. What? When in professional sports has this happened? I have never seen at least a televised game where this has happened, the team would be ridiculed and there would be a gigantic uproar. What do you call it when a team throws out their B-list players and just lets them dick around? Was Naniwa supposed to bust out his A-game? Why would you expect a results driven player to try their best...fun funsies? Or did you want him to play Goldilocks where he didn't really try but tried hard enough to entertain you?
He could bring his B game and there's no problem. Takes like, 7 minutes of his life to try and 4 gate Nestea. He brought no game at all. He didn't play.
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i actually expected him to at least try to play his best. I mean cmon, naniwa vs nestea? do you really not want to see that m/u when especially so much talk and hype was there. Even his own team hyped the m/u. He basically dissed his fans and his own team.
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On December 14 2011 03:23 hmunkey wrote:
Can you really find me an example from traditional sports where the competitors are expected to actually try hard without getting anything in return? Because I can't.
Every single spectator sport ever...? Not to mention what naniwa did went far beyond "not trying hard".
This is ridiculous, im done arguing it.
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On December 14 2011 03:26 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 03:19 Subversive wrote:On December 14 2011 03:18 mordk wrote:On December 14 2011 03:16 Klondikebar wrote:On December 14 2011 03:11 travis wrote:
It's a spectator sport. You never see teams or players go out and then stand there doing nothing in other sports because "the game doesn't matter". If they did then the crowd would boo, and there would be repercussions. Teams do that all the time. The crowd doesn't boo, they just leave the stadium or don't even buy tickets in the first place. The whole reason teams aren't trying is because there are no repercussions. You just don't hear about it because traditional sports audiences are mature enough to understand the point of competition. What? No they don't, and when they do it sucks. One of the reasons I love my favorite football club is because they'll play every match like it's the last in their lives. And don't start with the "benching stars" and stuff. These matches are usually a great oportunity for young talents to show themselves and for tired players to rest and recover from exhausting seasons. What? When has a team in cricket/soccer/any of the various football codes ever just come onto a stadium and not played? What a dumb thing to say. The team plays, but the good players don't. That's a key distinction we have to make because SC2 isn't a team sport. By not fielding the good players, the coach/manager is showing he doesn't actually care about the game. In golf and tennis there really aren't any pointless games; the athletes are paid for any performances. Of course this is ignoring charity matches and the like...
Ok, he was paid to play in the tournament, he is also paid by sponsors to play the game and uphold an image. He IS paid. All this crap about how he wasn't paid to play that particular game is sophistry.
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EPT
