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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
A Broken Human Being...
Please... Naniwa put his full heart into winning games, and when he went 0-3, it hurt so badly he broke.
Let's compare sports... Anyone see the Lakers play against Mavs? Game 4? Odom elbowing dirk, bynum clotheslining barea. . .
this shit happens when people devote their whole lives to the sport, and then gets put down so badly their only response is through a breakdown.
they don't have time to think of all the bullshit you guys are coming up with. how the lakers acted is much more disgraceful than what naniwa did.
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On December 14 2011 02:34 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:32 Rassefrasse wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Poisonblack wrote:
I feel sorry for Quantic... lol I really do too. I would love to have their take on this incident. In my opinion Naniwa disrespected sports in general. You never see a professional soccer-team ignore the ball during a soccer match just because they cannot pass the group stage. It's a sportmans duty to play a game if there are resources being spent toward casting the game. Seriously, why is it after an incident, we have all these 1-5 post nubs posting on TL? Look, NFL team towards end of the seasons generally send out their bench players for majority of the games, if they don't stand to win anything, (move up in playoff spot, or what not). I don't see how this is any more different than Naniwa probe rushing...
This analogy only really seems to fit if you compare player to player since much like SC2 pros, the NFL players don't get to tell people to sit out or what plays to run (mostly) or anything really. And any player that is out on the field (starter or backup) would play hard regardless of the score or the teams record.
If you insist on your analogy of an NFL team/organization to a SC2 pro then we could still say that benching starters at the end of the regular season when you have already made the playoffs is way different than what Naniwa did. There is a benefit to the NFL team, a guaranteed healthy starter for the playoffs. It's taking a possible loss for the greater good. What is Naniwa's goals with this forfeit? Nothing. It wasn't like what Greg did at IPL (I think) where he forfeited some group matches to catch up on sleep in hopes of better play the next day after being refreshed. There simply wasn't anything to be gained by Naniwa, unlike the NFL team example you gave.
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On December 14 2011 02:41 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:40 grobo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:39 ArcticRaven wrote:On December 14 2011 02:36 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:33 Chessz wrote:On December 14 2011 02:30 Squeegy wrote:On December 14 2011 02:19 kafkaesque wrote:On December 14 2011 02:18 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:16 kafkaesque wrote:
Oh Jesus, how is this still going on?
Why do you guys care so much about such an inane thing?
Do you feel cheated out of 10 minutes of Starcraft?
Give that guy a fucking break... a lot of people gave him a break after MLG, which in my eyes wasn't really deserved, no reason to let him get away with acting like an idiot all the time. You punish bad behavior because you don't want everyone to act like that. It's that simple. I would expect him to get some sort of punishment, and whatever it is, I agree with it. Again, how exactly does it bother you? I what way does he hurt anyone by throwing away a completely meaningless game? Since this comment is particularly dumb I will respond. It was a grudge match. Nestea wanted revenge and Naniwa had taunted him beforehand. Nestea loses. Many fans wanted to see the grudge match. Many fans lose. It is also a matter of respect. It is a type of privilege to play on that stage. You show respect to it by playing your matches and at least trying to some extent. Is it really that much to ask that you show by play using a standard strategy (thus not giving away any strategical advantage in the futuregames) for some twenty minutes? Naniwa is only getting what he is asking for. People dislike him for a reason. It's not like they just randomly chose to bully him. Not to mention GOMTV has payed him to play the round robin. Hahahaha the irony, maybe you should also have a giant shit storm for Naniwa's other 3 games, in which he was CHEESED the fuck out by everyone else. The second he tries to do a 7probe rush, there's a giant shit storm!? lolololol, maybe the contract should say "you're being paid to play MACRO games, or games LONGER than 7 minutes". Naniwa obviously on tilt, maybe next time he'll just 4gate rather than 7 probe rush, and everyone will be happy... lol. Not exaclty the same. He didn't cheese. He elaborately ragequitted the tournament. You seem to have lost the point. How does one quit a tournament you are already out of? point. game. match.
You go to NesTea and GOM and say, "I want to forfeit". It's pretty simple actually, it's called TALKING!
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On December 14 2011 02:38 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:34 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:23 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:20 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:15 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:13 mordk wrote:
[quote]
Completely irrelevant. Double-gate proxy can win games. You do it when you think you can win with it. 7 Probe rush loses to anything lol, it's not playing the game.
And yes, it's certainly OK to cheese. You can totally win with a 7 probe rush.... It just takes insane micro skills. Again, what league are you in? And yes, I am sure you can win ... if you are master league against gold or bronze or some shit, but as a master league zerg - no you cannot win it is straight up impossible. Regardless of how insane your micro skills are - if the opponent isn't a moron with no skills ... which NesTea isn't. There was 0% chance he could win that game regardless of what NesTea did. That is what people are annoyed about. theoretically a bot can out micro a human, I don't see why a human can't outmicro another human. in pure theory, a 7 probe rush could totally work. Theoretically I could win the lottery tomorrow and win 150 million. That is about the same chance as Naniwa winning that game ... probably higher, if you don't include NesTea having a sudden illness leaving him unable to control his units ... Is it the same chances as Naniwa winning with a double gate? Nah double proxy gate I'd expect have a 2-5% chance of winning ... either way, I am done arguing with you, because I cannot combat pure stupidity on this level by reasoned arguments. So by increasing his chances of winning from .01% to a 2-5% he's in the all-clear? lol, the hypocrisy. By actually attempting to win no matter how stupid the strategy, he would be. Everyone would know he didn't play his best, but he would have tried. Also, it's not 0.01%, it's not even 0.000001%, so it's more like giving himself more than 10 million times the chance of winning ... since it's going from 0 in 10 000 games, to 1 in 20. The intent is still the same, no matter how the math works out. Seriously, in a bo1, cheesing is pretty much an intent of "I don't really want to play this game, lets get this out of the way." Plus no one expects the 7 probe rush!
When people cheese they usually want to win. Naniwa didn't try to win this game. Analogy dead.
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On December 14 2011 02:23 resilve wrote:
I cannot believe how childish people are being.
The game had no impact on anything, it had no meaning - why should he take it seriously?
You see how many times players forfeit their ranking games at MLGs? Haypro only got his 7th place at Providence because Idra was a no-show for his ranking game. And that is a very common situation, people never show for these matches - because they have no meaning.
So lets treat naniwa the same as all players not trying 100% in pointless games. We don't give a toss.
Why should he take it seriously? Because there are people paying GOMTV to watch HQ, top-notch matches. The same people providing GSL the fundings for Blizzcup - the same tournament NaNiwa played in. E-Sports lives because there is a large community and fanbase that watch this game - the sponsors comes as a result of the amount of people who is willing to watch other people play. And NaNiwa tok a shit on the whole system because there was nothing in it for him playing against one of the best zergs in the world.
It had no meaning? I mean, watch the reactions of this community, it had a meaning for us, and many of his fans (and possibly ex-fans). And the fact you get an oppertunity to play against the best zerg in the world, atleast use it as practice.
And there's a good reason why the koreans have reacted in such manner. They have a different, and imo better, moral than NaNiwa. Does anyone recall a korean player not saying 'I wish to show exiciting and fun matches for my fans', or something along those lines, at a MLG? No, they all have said so, because they care about the viewership and the fans.
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On December 14 2011 02:41 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:40 grobo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:39 ArcticRaven wrote:On December 14 2011 02:36 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:33 Chessz wrote:On December 14 2011 02:30 Squeegy wrote:On December 14 2011 02:19 kafkaesque wrote:On December 14 2011 02:18 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:16 kafkaesque wrote:
Oh Jesus, how is this still going on?
Why do you guys care so much about such an inane thing?
Do you feel cheated out of 10 minutes of Starcraft?
Give that guy a fucking break... a lot of people gave him a break after MLG, which in my eyes wasn't really deserved, no reason to let him get away with acting like an idiot all the time. You punish bad behavior because you don't want everyone to act like that. It's that simple. I would expect him to get some sort of punishment, and whatever it is, I agree with it. Again, how exactly does it bother you? I what way does he hurt anyone by throwing away a completely meaningless game? Since this comment is particularly dumb I will respond. It was a grudge match. Nestea wanted revenge and Naniwa had taunted him beforehand. Nestea loses. Many fans wanted to see the grudge match. Many fans lose. It is also a matter of respect. It is a type of privilege to play on that stage. You show respect to it by playing your matches and at least trying to some extent. Is it really that much to ask that you show by play using a standard strategy (thus not giving away any strategical advantage in the futuregames) for some twenty minutes? Naniwa is only getting what he is asking for. People dislike him for a reason. It's not like they just randomly chose to bully him. Not to mention GOMTV has payed him to play the round robin. Hahahaha the irony, maybe you should also have a giant shit storm for Naniwa's other 3 games, in which he was CHEESED the fuck out by everyone else. The second he tries to do a 7probe rush, there's a giant shit storm!? lolololol, maybe the contract should say "you're being paid to play MACRO games, or games LONGER than 7 minutes". Naniwa obviously on tilt, maybe next time he'll just 4gate rather than 7 probe rush, and everyone will be happy... lol. Not exaclty the same. He didn't cheese. He elaborately ragequitted the tournament. You seem to have lost the point. How does one quit a tournament you are already out of? point. game. match.
what? no, it just meant he couldn't advance, he wasn't "out of" the tournament. i don't understand. it's a tournament game? it counted toward his record in the tournament? because the tournament format was round robin, and he still had to play nestea?
lets chill out with the trolling, redditors
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i never liked naniwa, im not surprised.
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On December 14 2011 02:42 Subversive wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:38 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:34 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:23 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:20 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:15 wei2coolman wrote:
[quote]
You can totally win with a 7 probe rush.... It just takes insane micro skills. Again, what league are you in? And yes, I am sure you can win ... if you are master league against gold or bronze or some shit, but as a master league zerg - no you cannot win it is straight up impossible. Regardless of how insane your micro skills are - if the opponent isn't a moron with no skills ... which NesTea isn't. There was 0% chance he could win that game regardless of what NesTea did. That is what people are annoyed about. theoretically a bot can out micro a human, I don't see why a human can't outmicro another human. in pure theory, a 7 probe rush could totally work. Theoretically I could win the lottery tomorrow and win 150 million. That is about the same chance as Naniwa winning that game ... probably higher, if you don't include NesTea having a sudden illness leaving him unable to control his units ... Is it the same chances as Naniwa winning with a double gate? Nah double proxy gate I'd expect have a 2-5% chance of winning ... either way, I am done arguing with you, because I cannot combat pure stupidity on this level by reasoned arguments. So by increasing his chances of winning from .01% to a 2-5% he's in the all-clear? lol, the hypocrisy. By actually attempting to win no matter how stupid the strategy, he would be. Everyone would know he didn't play his best, but he would have tried. Also, it's not 0.01%, it's not even 0.000001%, so it's more like giving himself more than 10 million times the chance of winning ... since it's going from 0 in 10 000 games, to 1 in 20. The intent is still the same, no matter how the math works out. Seriously, in a bo1, cheesing is pretty much an intent of "I don't really want to play this game, lets get this out of the way." Plus no one expects the 7 probe rush! When people cheese they usually want to win. Naniwa didn't try to win this game. Analogy dead.
Yes, because everyone who double gates in professional tourneys in a Round Robin format, totally expect to win a a game against Nestea.... 7 probe rush, just as legitimate imo. Its just a different form.
With that being said. I'm determined to figure out the fastest way to lose a game without prematurely GGing.
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It's pretty clear that Naniwa can't control his emotions after a loss. This is about the 50th time it's been demonstrated. Funny how some progamers are so odd.
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Wow dude this is really unfortunate. I like Naniwa's play, but now he definitely lost credibility as a progamer. I just don't care at all about him anymore. I thought he was a true competitor; I was wrong.
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How is this even a big deal? He was already out.
If a tournament includes matches that do not matter in any way whatsoever, of course people will do bullshit. It just so happens that most pros bullshit in ways that entertain fans more than what Nani did.
If you're knocked out of a tournament, you shouldn't still have to play other pointless games. It's stupid and there's nothing on the line. At the very least use placements for seeding or give prize money to the players based on their performance regardless of how far down the line they are.
Edit: This same stuff happens in every professional sport that has pointless games after the regular season. Look at any football team -- every top player just skips the game and the 2nd and 3rd strings are basically just practicing. Obviously the coaches don't give a shit.
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Odd? Or passionate? He wants to show hes the best, he seems let down, even in the interview
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On December 14 2011 02:46 Doodsmack wrote:
It's pretty clear that Naniwa can't control his emotions after a loss. This is about the 50th time it's been demonstrated. Funny how some progamers are so odd.
after 3 straight losses that he poured his heart and soul into. i don't get the simplicity of this community. this will be my last time posting.
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On December 14 2011 02:45 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:42 Subversive wrote:On December 14 2011 02:38 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:34 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:27 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:23 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:22 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:20 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 aebriol wrote:
[quote]
Again, what league are you in? And yes, I am sure you can win ... if you are master league against gold or bronze or some shit, but as a master league zerg - no you cannot win it is straight up impossible. Regardless of how insane your micro skills are - if the opponent isn't a moron with no skills ... which NesTea isn't.
There was 0% chance he could win that game regardless of what NesTea did. That is what people are annoyed about. theoretically a bot can out micro a human, I don't see why a human can't outmicro another human. in pure theory, a 7 probe rush could totally work. Theoretically I could win the lottery tomorrow and win 150 million. That is about the same chance as Naniwa winning that game ... probably higher, if you don't include NesTea having a sudden illness leaving him unable to control his units ... Is it the same chances as Naniwa winning with a double gate? Nah double proxy gate I'd expect have a 2-5% chance of winning ... either way, I am done arguing with you, because I cannot combat pure stupidity on this level by reasoned arguments. So by increasing his chances of winning from .01% to a 2-5% he's in the all-clear? lol, the hypocrisy. By actually attempting to win no matter how stupid the strategy, he would be. Everyone would know he didn't play his best, but he would have tried. Also, it's not 0.01%, it's not even 0.000001%, so it's more like giving himself more than 10 million times the chance of winning ... since it's going from 0 in 10 000 games, to 1 in 20. The intent is still the same, no matter how the math works out. Seriously, in a bo1, cheesing is pretty much an intent of "I don't really want to play this game, lets get this out of the way." Plus no one expects the 7 probe rush! When people cheese they usually want to win. Naniwa didn't try to win this game. Analogy dead. Yes, because everyone who double gates in professional tourneys in a Round Robin format, totally expect to win a a game against Nestea.... 7 probe rush, just as legitimate imo. Its just a different form. With that being said. I'm determined to figure out the fastest way to lose a game without prematurely GGing.
What he did isn't comparable to a cheese. A cheese relies on the other person being unaware you're doing it and winning by exploiting that and/or timing. Probe rushing never works. We have a series of spotlighted articles on TL that prove this.
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On December 14 2011 02:34 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:32 Rassefrasse wrote:On December 14 2011 02:17 Poisonblack wrote:
I feel sorry for Quantic... lol I really do too. I would love to have their take on this incident. In my opinion Naniwa disrespected sports in general. You never see a professional soccer-team ignore the ball during a soccer match just because they cannot pass the group stage. It's a sportmans duty to play a game if there are resources being spent toward casting the game. Seriously, why is it after an incident, we have all these 1-5 post nubs posting on TL? Look, NFL team towards end of the seasons generally send out their bench players for majority of the games, if they don't stand to win anything, (move up in playoff spot, or what not). I don't see how this is any more different than Naniwa probe rushing...
You count very much as a newbie too.
Then perhaps you should get glasses to help you see better. If Naniwa had played but not used his best strategies, say, something he had prepared for Nestea. That would be comparable to fielding a B-team. The B-teamers will still try their best to win, as this is their chance to shine. In similar way Naniwa could've played a normal game without anything fancy. If the team had hired some bums from the street to wear their jerseys to play the match that would be comparable to what Naniwa did (to a greater extent at least).
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This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something.
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On December 14 2011 02:44 Chessz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 02:41 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:40 grobo wrote:On December 14 2011 02:39 ArcticRaven wrote:On December 14 2011 02:36 wei2coolman wrote:On December 14 2011 02:33 Chessz wrote:On December 14 2011 02:30 Squeegy wrote:On December 14 2011 02:19 kafkaesque wrote:On December 14 2011 02:18 aebriol wrote:On December 14 2011 02:16 kafkaesque wrote:
Oh Jesus, how is this still going on?
Why do you guys care so much about such an inane thing?
Do you feel cheated out of 10 minutes of Starcraft?
Give that guy a fucking break... a lot of people gave him a break after MLG, which in my eyes wasn't really deserved, no reason to let him get away with acting like an idiot all the time. You punish bad behavior because you don't want everyone to act like that. It's that simple. I would expect him to get some sort of punishment, and whatever it is, I agree with it. Again, how exactly does it bother you? I what way does he hurt anyone by throwing away a completely meaningless game? Since this comment is particularly dumb I will respond. It was a grudge match. Nestea wanted revenge and Naniwa had taunted him beforehand. Nestea loses. Many fans wanted to see the grudge match. Many fans lose. It is also a matter of respect. It is a type of privilege to play on that stage. You show respect to it by playing your matches and at least trying to some extent. Is it really that much to ask that you show by play using a standard strategy (thus not giving away any strategical advantage in the futuregames) for some twenty minutes? Naniwa is only getting what he is asking for. People dislike him for a reason. It's not like they just randomly chose to bully him. Not to mention GOMTV has payed him to play the round robin. Hahahaha the irony, maybe you should also have a giant shit storm for Naniwa's other 3 games, in which he was CHEESED the fuck out by everyone else. The second he tries to do a 7probe rush, there's a giant shit storm!? lolololol, maybe the contract should say "you're being paid to play MACRO games, or games LONGER than 7 minutes". Naniwa obviously on tilt, maybe next time he'll just 4gate rather than 7 probe rush, and everyone will be happy... lol. Not exaclty the same. He didn't cheese. He elaborately ragequitted the tournament. You seem to have lost the point. How does one quit a tournament you are already out of? point. game. match. what? no, it just meant he couldn't advance, he wasn't "out of" the tournament. i don't understand. it's a tournament game? it counted toward his record in the tournament? because the tournament format was round robin, and he still had to play nestea? lets chill out with the trolling, redditors
So now a ~200post guy is gonna call the veterans redditors, lol
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On December 14 2011 02:49 Shodanss wrote:
This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something.
Dude cant get past first game of code A. Don't worry, we won't have to worry about this joker in code S any time soon.
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He invested everything into those 3 matches and lost them all. We know that Naniwa takes things incredibly seriously, especially loses. His decision isn't surprising. I'm not saying that it was the right decision, but i understand why he did it.
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On December 14 2011 02:49 Shodanss wrote:
This is a pathetic behavior from someone who want to call himself "Pro".I really hope that Gom bans him from Code S for a year or something.
I don't know about a 1yr ban, but some sort of punishment must be handed out to make an example of him to deterrent others from doing the same. Perhaps remove his just earned Code S this one time.
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EPT
