EPTIf you remove them you'd have to add no MBS or automining, which I'd be completely for, but unfortunately bronze players would cry about it and blizzard would listen to them.
Complacency and Easy mode - Page 4
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L3gendary
Canada1470 Posts
If you remove them you'd have to add no MBS or automining, which I'd be completely for, but unfortunately bronze players would cry about it and blizzard would listen to them. | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
Right? RIGHT?! gotcha | ||
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Musketeer
142 Posts
On December 10 2011 23:28 Jyxz wrote: At the bronze level I agree, but what I think is more relevant and yet forgotten is that there is no reason not to use these mechanics. Chronoboost you start with, and the other two are so powerful they have been gotten every game played since the first game of beta to the last game played today, (except maybe for 1 week when day9 did no queens for monday). These add slightly to your required APM however they are not true skill. True skill is when you have to decide whether or not to engage and army or go in for SCV kills with your muta. These are not apm they are TACTICAL decisions making it a strategy game. If something is so strong it is a must it isnt a test of skill just an unnecessary game mechanic. By your argument you should remove auto-mine and multiply building selection from the game. Beating someone shouldn't be about putting workers on minerals better it should be about making correction decisions in APM demanding situations. So what you're saying is that we should remove probes, SCVs and drones? They're so strong that they're a must; they're just an unnecessary game mechanic. Anyways, who are you to determine what skills the game "should" require? | ||
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TATTOO
Canada33 Posts
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
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ThaZenith
Canada3116 Posts
The game is much, much more finely balanced than you make it seem. Doing anything like that would destroy basically the entire metagame instantly. Sort of a silly topic. | ||
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heroofcanton
United States167 Posts
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
But hey at least I shoved in a quote so that makes it OK. Also an inherently broken game? Seriously? Winrates has always been hovering around 50% bañlance whiners be damned game is as reasonable balanced as it can be. I am in a nad mood, but of all dumb ¨changes I would make to the game¨ threads this one is amongst the Dumbest. But the fact that it stemmed from a conversation over DotA I guess I can see why its so dumb. This changes add nothing to the game, don´t add more depth, don´t add more strategy, don´t make it more interesting. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
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Lunaro
Canada77 Posts
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thundrio
15 Posts
On December 11 2011 00:11 forsooth wrote: I do understand that the mechanics I developed in BW gave me an initial edge over people who were being introduced to StarCraft through SC2, but when I beat someone easily who's in diamond with hundreds of 1v1s played each season in comparison to my couple dozen, it's both surprising and off-putting. I don't feel like I should be beating people who put in vastly more time than I do. I am in bronze league right now (I should be higher but I haven't laddered much, instead opting to practice my mechanics offline), and I often play people in standard games and I destroy them (I max out when they are sub 80 supply). Then I look at their profile and they have 200-300 league wins in comparison to my 20. I used to be confused as to how I beat them but you can't judge someones skill off the number of wins they have in a given season. They could have been smurfing in a low league before coming up to diamond, cheesing a bunch, or in my case [of looking at the league wins] play a bunch of non 1v1 ladders. A better way to judge their skill would be to look at their most recent game, maybe calculate their SQ and compare it with yours. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3137 Posts
I guess I was wrong. | ||
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Awatsu
173 Posts
OH LOL are you serious?? | ||
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Mafs
Canada458 Posts
On December 11 2011 03:54 Awatsu wrote: -Protoss gateway units all 10% faster build time, Robo bay units 15% faster build time, Stargate 15% faster build time. Warp gate research 160 --> 120. OH LOL are you serious?? LOL, that would make protoss all ins vs zerg unstopable. by themselves, and getting rid of larva inject will break both of zergs legs. OP needs to analyze games a bit harder. | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On December 11 2011 03:47 Lunaro wrote: You forgot to remove warpgate tech too No no no, he actually proved that warpgate research time should be *faster* than it currently is. Didn't you read about the evidence in the OP.. geez | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
On December 11 2011 00:13 jnc wrote: I do understand "getting rid of 'mindless' APM" - similar to how workers now auto-mine and multi-building selection, I just don't understand how this doesn't make sc2 easier. Please explain better how getting rid of the sc2 "macro mechanics" makes it less easy? | ||
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lolsixtynine
United States600 Posts
On December 10 2011 23:28 Jyxz wrote: At the bronze level I agree, but what I think is more relevant and yet forgotten is that there is no reason not to use these mechanics. Chronoboost you start with, and the other two are so powerful they have been gotten every game played since the first game of beta to the last game played today, (except maybe for 1 week when day9 did no queens for monday). These add slightly to your required APM however they are not true skill. True skill is when you have to decide whether or not to engage and army or go in for SCV kills with your muta. These are not apm they are TACTICAL decisions making it a strategy game. If something is so strong it is a must it isnt a test of skill just an unnecessary game mechanic. By your argument you should remove auto-mine and multiply building selection from the game. Beating someone shouldn't be about putting workers on minerals better it should be about making correction decisions in APM demanding situations. You... do realize that this is what people hated about SC2 right? | ||
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hoby2000
United States918 Posts
On December 10 2011 23:55 Jyxz wrote: I have to disagree with you here, even though a lot of what you say is true, it is possible for a noob to hit masters. The amount it takes to bring someone to diamond level in SC2 is absurdly easy. With terran just teaching someone a proper 2 rax push used to be enough to get to masters it is still enough to get to diamond, protoss 4 warpgate was enough to get high diamond before masters was even out. As to the second part of your post, I am saying I don't want to hold people back? I want to remove these mechanics that have no decision making just mindless APM. When people say rank means nothing in this game, they mean it. Lets think about the pro players who learn all-ins and performed them constantly..... BitbyBityPrime? Anyone know where he is? Or that Zenex player that 6 pooled Losira TWICE IN A ROW ON A 4 PLAYER MAP. These are only two examples, but the point is that while you could learn a build and get to masters, that doesn't mean you're truly at the Master level of skill. It does mean your build is pretty damn solid, and you can probably play as a well as a TRUE Master leaguer, provided you're doing the same builds... but what if they're a different race? What if they do something you're not expecting? What if the person you're playing only has one build and it happens to counter your build? Being in Master league or even Grand Master means crap in terms of true skill evaluation. What it does mean though, is that you may have the abilities to become one of the best due to your vigilance in achieving the top of the worst (when comparing to ALL ladder players). It's like that part in the original Pokemon game where you get all the badges only to realize you have to go defeat the Elite 4 and Mewtwo. You haven't truly beat the game, but you are on your way if you keep going at it. | ||
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Sn0wM4
Bulgaria68 Posts
Your solution: Remove everything that rewards good mechanics thus reducing need to have skill and making the game a macro-fest. Wait a minute here... | ||
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