• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:40
CEST 11:40
KST 18:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror4[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10
Community News
Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4)0SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup10StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026)76Weekly Cups (Sept 21-27): herO and ByuN double2Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple3
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.17 PTR Patch Notes (Sept 30, 2026) How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups Results (Sep 28-Oct 4) SC4ALL: II SC2 Complete Invited Player Lineup Back to SC2 after 14 years - Protoss CTRL groups?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Grand Finals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 546 Catch the Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 545 And Drops and Rifts Mutation # 544 Double Trouble
Brood War
General
Sagi.gg Launcher Released 20-year-old Valorant player starting StarCraft Bot on ladder BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Fantasy returning?
Tourneys
[ASL22] Semifinal B [ASL22] Semifinal A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Zero
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Dating: How's your luck? Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Escaping Into Video Games: G…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7850 users

Complacency and Easy mode - Page 7

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 Next All
HypernovA
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada556 Posts
December 10 2011 23:49 GMT
#121
Yawn another Brood war versus sc2 thread.
EndOfLineTv
Profile Joined February 2011
United States741 Posts
December 10 2011 23:53 GMT
#122
hmmm,

I personally that having Chrono, Mule, and Inject adds depth to this game, and actually Adds even more contract to good players and great players.

Just look at Liquid Ret, Who NEVER misses injections. Unless somone pushes him out of his chair.

Yesterday, I missed a round of injections early in the game, and lost the game because of it.

aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-11 00:05:28
December 11 2011 00:04 GMT
#123
Okay, I actually read through your entire post, and i have to say that while you put in decent effort in trying to convince us that SC2 is SOO much easier in BW, i can tell you that the blizzard designers DON'T want SC2 to be like BW (changing many BW units such as zerglings, zealots, or adding/removing others such as vultures, lurkers, dragoons). You're saying that we should revert back to the manual mining and eliminate chrono, larva inject, and mules. So basically BW in with new units in an SC2 graphics engine. Well, and this is coming from an ex-BW player, if you feel like SC2 is 'easy-mode', then don't play it. Stay with BW like thousands of others do. Don't try to convince others that SC2 should for whatever reason become SC1: Wings of Liberty. The topic has been brought up so many different times on both Bnet and TL, and i really don't see the point of discussing changes that will never occur. And quite frankly, your opinion doesn't really mean anything, who are YOU to tell us what changes SC2 should be made?
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
Witten
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2094 Posts
December 11 2011 00:04 GMT
#124
There's a game that does this. It's called BW. It still exists and is great. You should play it.

I play both and I'm happy. I wish everyone did this. But they don't, and that's ok.
Brood War Forever / NA's premiere Shadow Shaman player / Courier Collector / Bot Game Champion / Highly amateur Mystical Ninja Goemon Speedrunner
Insomni7
Profile Joined June 2011
667 Posts
December 11 2011 00:19 GMT
#125
Simplifying the game (and dont tell me that isnt what you are doing because it is) and lowering the viability of allins makes the game one dimensional and actually easier to play. I like starcraft two because the challenge of reading allins, defending timings, ect. I dont believe that scii is at its best when a wide variety of strategies arent possible. Sometimes a better player will lose to a worst player, but no game is immune from this occurence. The author doesnt seem to understand that it does require skill to defend allins. Furthermore SCII is not always at its best in a 200v200 fight. You are making the maneuvering to max supply easier in the hopes that it will make the game better, but in reality, 200 vs 200 is just as skilled as maneuvering through the early portions of a game without dying. You are making scII more one dimensional, and you are moving the game in the wrong direction.
Never Forget.
jemag
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada98 Posts
December 11 2011 00:23 GMT
#126
I gotta say I am pretty tired of all those BW versus starcraft 2 threads.

There is no reason to give up on Starcraft 2, with this change it could someday replace Starcraft as the best game ever, and I want to do my part so that happens.


No one is giving up or losing hope. Starcraft 2 became quite decently balanced for being out for such a short amount of time, especially compared to the amount it took for SC 1.

If you enjoy Starcraft BW more than Starcraft 2, well just go play it, it is not going anywhere. They are 2 different games.
Flonomenalz
Profile Joined May 2011
Nigeria3519 Posts
December 11 2011 00:35 GMT
#127
How do BW vs SC2 threads not get locked immediately?

The OP is flat out stupid... yeah let's completely change SC2. Why? Because my friends said so.

Logic = flawless
I love crazymoving
Jyxz
Profile Joined November 2009
United States117 Posts
December 11 2011 01:00 GMT
#128
I thought this thread might be rapidly closed but since it wasn't I did a large edit attempting to address some concerns =).
This is Jimmy
aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
December 11 2011 01:06 GMT
#129
On December 11 2011 10:00 Jyxz wrote:
I thought this thread might be rapidly closed but since it wasn't I did a large edit attempting to address some concerns =).

i wondered why it wasn't closed too.
no amount of editing is going to change your central point. and blizzard will not change the game because of a small minority of people say 'less is more'.
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
Utinni
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada1196 Posts
December 11 2011 01:12 GMT
#130
ohhhh brubber.

l2play please.
“... you don’t have to be Sun freakin Tzu to know that real fighting isn’t about killing or even hurting the other guy, it’s about scaring him enough to call it a day.” - Max Brooks: World War Z
heroofcanton
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States167 Posts
December 11 2011 01:19 GMT
#131
If you thought this thread would be closed why did you post it...

I think you have this idea of "what sc2 should be like" and it's ok not to be just completely thrilled with it. However, drastically changing the game is just an objectively terrible idea. Some macro mechanics may seem like bs, but it balances out. Sure, zerg can get 100000 larvae, but terran can sac all their scvs and rely on mules, and toss can save up chrono and use it on their gates to get reinforcements faster. I don't really see a reason to complain because their isn't really a problem with it.

The zerg larvae thing really perplexes me too. Like, as a zerg, I may be able to get out >9000 mutas or whatever at a time, but requires me having 90000/90000 and if i am floating that much I suck. I kind of get the feeling you don't understand zerg with statements like "Why is it ok for me to win off something mindlessly stupid like injecting larva". Zerg macro is kind of a pain. I have seen Ret have 0 energy on his queens on 4 bases. That is impressive as fuck. Hitting larvae injects allows for zerg to get that swarm eZ. missing them means you are behind because you don't have cost effective units. You can easily lose games by missing injects.

I think you and your bros are alone in this thought. Maybe you guys should go play something else if you aren't happy. I, and the vast majority of people who have responded to your inane idea, do not want to start some stupid community movement to change SC2. This ain't Occupy Tarsonis. You are the 1%, bro.
The hero of Canton, the man they call me.
aviator116
Profile Joined November 2011
United States820 Posts
December 11 2011 01:21 GMT
#132
On December 11 2011 10:19 heroofcanton wrote:
If you thought this thread would be closed why did you post it...

I think you and your bros are alone in this thought. Maybe you guys should go play something else if you aren't happy. I, and the vast majority of people who have responded to your inane idea, do not want to start some stupid community movement to change SC2. This ain't Occupy Tarsonis. You are the 1%, bro.

too epic to not repost.
Bogus ST_Life IMMVP
Effay
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States153 Posts
December 11 2011 01:23 GMT
#133
So much rage in this thread lmao

I can't believe that people are denying that the macro mechanics contribute to all ins and timing attack better in SC2. They're not the only cause mind you, but they definitely are contributing.
Obsession: The weak minded's name for dedication
Silidons
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States2813 Posts
December 11 2011 01:26 GMT
#134
On December 11 2011 08:53 EndOfLine wrote:
hmmm,

I personally that having Chrono, Mule, and Inject adds depth to this game, and actually Adds even more contract to good players and great players.

Just look at Liquid Ret, Who NEVER misses injections. Unless somone pushes him out of his chair.

Yesterday, I missed a round of injections early in the game, and lost the game because of it.


that's completely a lie, no one who isn't a pro executing a specific strategy against another specific strategy lost solely because they did not inject/chrono/mule. it may have made it worse for you but in no way shape or form did IT and SOLELY it make you lose the game.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte
magicmUnky
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia280 Posts
December 11 2011 02:30 GMT
#135
There is so much wrong with those edits it's not even worth bothering to explain, suffice to say; OP is wrong.

You mentioned "Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in and keep holding on until the world has crushed you or started to see things your way."

Nice bullshit, it's time for you to get crushed k?
TheHatterisMad
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada20 Posts
December 11 2011 02:43 GMT
#136
On December 11 2011 10:26 Silidons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2011 08:53 EndOfLine wrote:
hmmm,

I personally that having Chrono, Mule, and Inject adds depth to this game, and actually Adds even more contract to good players and great players.

Just look at Liquid Ret, Who NEVER misses injections. Unless somone pushes him out of his chair.

Yesterday, I missed a round of injections early in the game, and lost the game because of it.


that's completely a lie, no one who isn't a pro executing a specific strategy against another specific strategy lost solely because they did not inject/chrono/mule. it may have made it worse for you but in no way shape or form did IT and SOLELY it make you lose the game.


ZvZ

Both 14 gas 14 pool. Same amount of drones, queens, etc. Let's assume they both have 30 lings, and start brawling in the middle of the map. Player 1 misses an entire inject cycle (his queen has 25 more energy than it should) so that's 8 less lings. Player 2 now has a massive advantage and if both players hit their injects perfectly from then on player 2 will be able to overwhelm player 1.
LXR
Profile Joined June 2011
357 Posts
December 11 2011 02:45 GMT
#137
I don't think these mechanics will be removed. For one, they make the game much more interesting.

Interesting post, but i find myself wondering if TL is really going to become a trashbin for everyone to post their half-baked ideas in really long-winded posts thinking that they've said something extremely profound. Even the posts with stats are only mildly interesting. they just point out things that people already knew, i.e. practicing more makes a difference or bo5's make better players stand out. really? Do you have to post your ingenious analysis of how x player is the best ever because of a day you watched him stream?
Tishe
Profile Joined October 2011
Singapore17 Posts
December 11 2011 02:53 GMT
#138
I would support removal inject larva and remaking queens into something else... Though that would mean Zerg units having to be completely rebalanced to more cost and larva efficient... Which might not be appropriate in WoL but possible in future expansions. (one can always hope ^.^)

In SC2, Zerg has to be both the expanding player and the aggressive player which (yes yes again) compared to BW, Zerg players were usually defensive and the Terran/Protoss players had to constantly attack them to prevent them from maxing out. This led to a very interesting dynamic where the Zerg player was constantly trying to expand/max-out and Terran/Protoss players trying to prevent that from happening.

From a story perspective I also preferred that as a Zerg infestation had to be "cleansed" (attack!!!) before it got too strong or too widespread (i.e. not letting the Zerg expand too much or max-out).

From an implementation standpoint though I doubt that would happen...
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
December 11 2011 03:03 GMT
#139
Hmm i like this changes , I would switch from broodwar to sc2 if they removed the so called Macro mechanics in sc2 , I see chrono boost,mules and larvae inject as something that is not in the starcraft universe . who needs chrono boost while I can just make more gateways to get more units and even mass probe to get more minerals just like broodwar ? Inject larvae ? I can just make more hatcheries to get more larvae , Mules ? I will make more scvs to get more minerals .

I support you op ....
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
Vorenius
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Denmark1979 Posts
December 11 2011 03:51 GMT
#140
Hahaha oh boy. I love how you within one single post manage to go from one extreme to the complete opposite. A lot of people are pretty inconsistent in their posts but even so, you've reached a special level not seen often.

You manage to go from "SC2 is too easy" to "SC2 isn't easy enough" and you don't even notice it yourself...

Sorry to be the one to break it but there is a good chance you might have some kind of split personality, or maybe you just forgot to think before you posted (happens from time to time I suppose)


Because of the chronoboost, mule, and inject larva abilities, Starcraft 2 is to Starcraft, as easy mode dota is to regular dota.
So it's the easy version of the best game ever made (according to yourself)
These add slightly to your required APM however they are not true skill. True skill is when you have to decide whether or not to engage and army or go in for SCV kills with your muta. These are not apm they are TACTICAL decisions making it a strategy game. If something is so strong it is a must it isnt a test of skill just an unnecessary game mechanic.
Yet it's not easy enough?! How could you possibly come to that conclusion. How can easier than perfect be too hard? :s

Here I'll draw you a picture

This is the easy scale:

Less mechanically demanding<----------SC2----------BW----------->more mechanically demanding

So you wanna make it more like BW by making it less like BW? :D
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko36
StarCraft: Brood War
actioN 1448
firebathero 1055
Shuttle 584
Jaedong 458
BeSt 361
Hyuk 353
Mong 350
Hyun 271
Soma 192
Stork 139
[ Show more ]
PianO 90
Horang2 87
Sexy 83
Larva 75
Shine 65
Mind 63
Rush 61
910 54
Shinee 34
sSak 27
Bale 27
ZerO 26
Hm[arnc] 22
ZergMaN 22
sorry 19
HiyA 17
hero 16
Sharp 16
Noble 15
Terrorterran 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe86
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1198
shoxiejesuss834
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King253
Other Games
gofns38367
summit1g6654
singsing927
ceh9624
KnowMe134
Pyrionflax125
Livibee69
DeMusliM48
Trikslyr27
ZerO(Twitch)4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick447
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream36
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1098
• Stunt339
Other Games
• Shiphtur433
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
1h 20m
Patches Events
6h 20m
The PondCast
1d
INu's Battles
1d 1h
Percival vs SHIN
Zoun vs herO
OSC
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
OSC
2 days
BSL: Ladder Tournament
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Patches Events
4 days
[ Show More ]
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
BSL Open Qualifier
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Copium Cup

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSB
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
HCC Season 3
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.