On November 30 2011 10:38 Beren wrote: The most bad ass one is the one we don't know about.
If there is a video or documentary about them. They are not the most bad ass. The most bad ass unit has people that have trained and were former members or those units but the most bad ass were hand selected for another unit we don't know about. I could be getting to hollywood (maybe these units don't even exist) but if they do exist... THOSE GUYS.
Like.. Why would they be kept a secret? Give me one reason. Bragging about your special forces is an excellent way to give your country political power, and prohibit attacks. Ofcourse you can't endanger identeties, but keeping the operation a secret makes no sence (unless it's illegal ofcourse). If you're talking about black ops stuff, you not only have to be an extremely skilled solider, but also a brainwashed nationalist. For instance when democratical leaders are assassinated by the CIA.
Because information is the most powerful weapon of war. Even more so for special operations which often deal with highly sensitive and probably covert operations. The less anyone knows about such operations, the higher the chance of success.
Intelligence agencies will probably be monitoring all military movements and known units, especially if they are capable of carrying out special tasks. Again, if no one knows about the unit, it can't be monitored (or infiltrated).
If nothing else, the most elite unit of all will definitely be first in line for black ops. Having an unknown unit will greatly aid in deniability if the mission fails.
If you want military might for deterrence and political power, you need a strong standing army and advanced technologies. Having a strong special ops unit doesn't help that much. Especially if you brag about their capabilities, then you're just giving the enemy opportunities to prepare lol.
See, now we're talking in usefulness, whereas the thread was about which the most 'elite' or skilled team would be. My point is that being in a black ops team requires a lot more than skill. It requires a national fanatism that isn't quite necessary to the same level in spec ops. Look for instance at the SEALS, the SAS etc etc. That's special forces that are well known, and held up high in national media.
Arguably the most nationally fanatistic (I don't know what I typed there) operatives will devote most of their lives to training making them the most well trained.
The most secret specops unit also be given the most advanced technologies and most experimental training techniques, making them the most "elite" in terms of capabilities.
Wouldn't a black op just be a spy with a pistol and a silencer shooting a south american president in the head, and with too little knowledge to actually say anything interesting if caught? Well that's one kind. Black ops are usually just hired hitmen afaik. Why would you give the most advanced technology to a person who is half expected to be captured at some point anyway? Why wouldn't the official and famous spec ops be good enough for whatever mission that would require more firepower (say taking out NK / Iranian nuclear plants)? Just because you've heard the abbreviation doesn't exactly mean that you can look up their employee list on google. They're pretty secret about themselves too you know. Experimental training techniquies? What does that even mean? Like a hulk virus to turn themselves into monsters when angry? Taikwando? Why would you not want the best training for other, regular, spec ops, but save it for the secret ones? I don't get why secret would mean good. I assume you're thinking of some kind of James Bond character, with a car that can shoot fire and always finds away out of a tough spot thanks to his brilliant intellect and a hot lady. And with the added bonus that he doesn't work for the well known MI6, but for some kind of secret laboratory based group that resembles the 'Fringe' TV series. On top of that he's also a nationalistic fanatic. We're basically looking at Batman hired by the government here. Gosh this feels like I'm discussing religion ^_^
Many countries around the world train highly specialized SOF units, and many have proven effective over a consistent period of time. All things considered, none of these combined forces around the world match US SOF in funding or combat experience (for better or worse). It's a fact that US defense spending on SOF has increased drastically in the recent years. What was already at the top in shear size, technology, and global reach/presence has expanded even further in recent years, and continues as wars shift to specialized conflicts not directly involving other nations as in conventional conflict. Who possesses the most powerful SOF branch just isn't really open to debate given the plain facts.
As for some opinions from Rangers/SF guys... Need long distance patrol? Rapid ground assault on a location? Rangers. For big, decisive, direct action stuff, you want Rangers. T stereotype is they'll say you want them for anything. I think it's largely agreed these guys are great in specialized and larger scale assaults and patrols. They scour locations, they secure locations, they escort other units. Rangers fight in large units.
If you want the Hollywood/exciting stuff -- you're looking at SEALs (plus 'Delta', devgru, SAD, etc etc). Counter terrorism. Hostage rescue. Hostile territory info gathering. Small team work. These are the guys you think of doing close combat. Of course Rangers can kick doors too and oftentimes are deployed with SEALs in small team missions. SEALs are considered the guys you want for the high intensity type things, so I guess a lot of people will tout SEALs as being "the best 'special forces' ". ALl that said, it's not like SEALs or Rangers/SF or any of these guys are constantly doing 'epic' things. Usually they are training. They are frequently deployed into regions of the world, and there is action everywhere for US SOF. Even while deployed they continue training, so while they are doing missions, it's just like everyday training
On December 01 2011 05:16 Dub_doubt wrote: The most elite force is Delta
Only the top SEALS, Green Berets, Marine Recon, etc can be apart of it Marine recruiter told me they can use whatever weapons they want, dress however they want, and can be almost anyone, you'd never know they were even there, but if you get caught the US government will disenengage any knowledge of your existence as a soldier or even a US citizen.
one thing i liked about the new medal of honor game cover was that the spec force ppl really do look like biker thugs. Used to see those guys come in and out of airbase I used to work at.
Seal Team 6 > British SAS > Israeli Special Forces imo (never heard of bope, but they do sound badass)
Theres isnt really a yardstick to compare the performance of different special forces units from all around the world, but we can generally agree they're bat-shit crazy killing machines
Fox and/or Foxhound. You have to be someone insane and yet still militarily capable to be in those. Either that or have a terminator gene which insures your self-obsolescence at the end of a mission. Or maybe The Boss' group during the revolutionary movement in the Cold War.
My country's special forces could beat up your country's special forces.
But no seriously, SEAL Team Six is definitely up there. No real way of actually knowing though. Not only is everything classified, but it's a team of guys. Really tough to compare teams.
On December 01 2011 18:01 Pyskee wrote: My country's special forces could beat up your country's special forces.
But no seriously, SEAL Team Six is definitely up there. No real way of actually knowing though. Not only is everything classified, but it's a team of guys. Really tough to compare teams.
On December 01 2011 18:01 Pyskee wrote: My country's special forces could beat up your country's special forces.
But no seriously, SEAL Team Six is definitely up there. No real way of actually knowing though. Not only is everything classified, but it's a team of guys. Really tough to compare teams.
We need a tournament for this
EDIT: Single or double elim?
Mass TDM brawling!
On December 01 2011 04:58 StatX wrote: There was a show on TV about elite forces to counter terrorism acts in various contries.
DEVGRU was like #3 and tghere were 2 units on top of it. The #1 was a unit called cobra that acted in Europe. These guys were the most elite forces in the world. Trying to find a link or pictures of it might be a though one!
There's a 150km forced march for the sayeret matkal by the end of their training... while carrying a lot of equipment...and they're always going after the islamic militants around Israel on a daily basis...
1st SFOD-D seems pretty good at keeping them at bay in iraq/afghanistan
I just can't help but think this whole thing reads like my dad could beat up your dad. Is there an honest way to objectively measure the best of the best warriors against each other without them having a Battle Royale fight to the death?
There's no real yardstick by with which to measure or directly compare all of the special forces in the world, to be honest. Because many different groups are prepared and trained for different situations and with varying battlefield (and of course, outside it) objectives in mind, it just gets down to pretty subjective measurement. The Delta force will be deployed in a different series of combat operations compared to what some might term "DEVGRU", and this continues down the track a million times over. I think most people can agree obviously that the "elites" drawn from the elites will be top of the tier ie, DEVGRU, SAS/R Operators, Delta Force, their equivalents around the world will sit on a level of experience and excellence above the usually-specialisedunits they are drawn from, however. I suppose this is the term "Tier One Operative" has become very popular with which to refer to different groups.
Of course you would expect nations such as Israel and the United States of America to have significant budgets with which to equip and arm their forces that other nations might not (as well as different experiences, recruit stock to draw from, so on). But all of these groups with exceptionally demanding training will produce operatives of exceptional stock, and it would be difficult if not possible to fairly compare them.
I'd argue that the most 'elite' sf unit shouldn't be governmental, simply because privately run companies pay better. In other words, once the best soldiers from regular forces have been recruited for national special forces, the best members of these special forces soldiers will get recruited by private corporations. The most prominent example would of course be MPRI in the USA. Although I don't know enough about the private military sector to claim that they are the most elite company out there, I'm pretty convinced that by now, the state-run units are all lacking in comparison.
On December 01 2011 06:44 Euronyme wrote: Wouldn't a black op just be a spy with a pistol and a silencer shooting a south american president in the head, and with too little knowledge to actually say anything interesting if caught? Well that's one kind. Black ops are usually just hired hitmen afaik.
I'm sure black ops have many other tasks apart from assassination, that's just what the movies show :/ An example will be intelligence gathering. You need them to collect the specific information required, or at least be able to trust them to collect anything and everything of value. They have to be in the know. To illustrate this point, I was a scout during my national service. Highly likely to be caught and tortured for information. However, I still get briefed on the battalion's plan. Why shouldn't they just give me the minimum information required for the mission? The big reason is that you might not be in communications with higher command during a mission, in that case, if anything unexpected happens or a target of opportunity presents itself, you are expected to make a call that will most benefit the higher objective. I would expect such demands on a black op to be much much higher.
Why would you give the most advanced technology to a person who is half expected to be captured at some point anyway?
Well, you don't really want them do get caught do you? Besides, with technologies comes advanced capabilities. I'm sure the first sets of nightvision equipment went to the black ops, so they can conduct their missions when no one expects it to be possible.
Why wouldn't the official and famous spec ops be good enough for whatever mission that would require more firepower (say taking out NK / Iranian nuclear plants)? Just because you've heard the abbreviation doesn't exactly mean that you can look up their employee list on google. They're pretty secret about themselves too you know.
I guess so. But having a secret unit with secret capabilities opens up your options and gives it a much greater chance of success. You can't defend against what you don't think is possible.
Experimental training techniquies? What does that even mean? Like a hulk virus to turn themselves into monsters when angry? Taikwando? Why would you not want the best training for other, regular, spec ops, but save it for the secret ones? I don't get why secret would mean good.
I guess I was wrong lol. I meant training with their advanced technologies.
I assume you're thinking of some kind of James Bond character, with a car that can shoot fire and always finds away out of a tough spot thanks to his brilliant intellect and a hot lady. And with the added bonus that he doesn't work for the well known MI6, but for some kind of secret laboratory based group that resembles the 'Fringe' TV series. On top of that he's also a nationalistic fanatic. We're basically looking at Batman hired by the government here. Gosh this feels like I'm discussing religion ^_^
Some of you guys might like this forum. Though I wouldn't go posting stupid threads like this there. They'll assume you are just some teenaged call of duty obsessed kid and ignore you. Many of the members are vets. I've browsed the forum since it's creation and there are some pretty unique dudes there that weren't just regular joes, Marines or Rangers.
EPT
