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IMPORTANT: the flights are now covered, and Amanda should be fine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285511¤tpage=25#487 further donations will be for "paying event salaries (casters, talent, staff, etc.) and other event-related expenses" | ||
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kKagari
Australia84 Posts
The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money. Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. | ||
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Rocor
United States55 Posts
not to sound negative but I just wanted to know. Is Amanda associated with E-sports ? Did she front all this money herself for the cause of putting on the tournament, did she even know about the tournament ? Is she just a travel agent who got scammed ? just wondering because the posts and "facts" seem to be all over the place in this thread. It just seems like $12,000 in credit is alot to dole out to an unproven customer.. What Happened?!?! Damn heh I wish I could get a travel agent to front me that kind of money for my vacations.. I always have to pay before I get on the plane or stay at the hotel.. It is great to give.. just that there are so many people hurting now losing there homes getting put out on the streets.. just wanna make sure the charity is going to the right places... | ||
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lookmanohandzz
6 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:59 AjAyIGN wrote: The money being raised for Amanda is to cover the minimum cost of keeping her out of jail and bankruptcy. If more money is raised, it will go towards the other outstanding costs that still are unpaid from the PPSL event. According to Amanda (unless I read it wrong) the money was raised on page 25. later on page 30 something she is still personally thanking people as they state they have donated money to help. That and the thread title are a little misleading imo. maybe they could/should update the thread title? | ||
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rijndael
Philippines15 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:07 Rocor wrote: Hey all,.. this whole thing is an amazing showing from the community.. it warms my heart not to sound negative but I just wanted to know. Is Amanda associated with E-sports ? Did she front all this money herself for the cause of putting on the tournament, did she even know about the tournament ? Is she just a travel agent who got scammed ? just wondering because the posts and "facts" seem to be all over the place in this thread. It just seems like $12,000 in credit is alot to dole out to an unproven customer.. What Happened?!?! Damn heh I wish I could get a travel agent to front me that kind of money for my vacations.. I always have to pay before I get on the plane or stay at the hotel.. It is great to give.. just that there are so many people hurting now losing there homes getting put out on the streets.. just wanna make sure the charity is going to the right places... Maybe you should go read the PPSL related threads to get a better understanding of whats going on. Look for Dox's blog, it should contain the tl;dr version. | ||
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Ropid
Germany3557 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:54 ELA wrote: So you think Gus was doing business, and not scamming? "Well, you chose who you do business with" - Clearly, but the Philipines dosn't have the legal system that we have. It's extremely hard to cover yourself from this ever happening to you. I do think the stream and donations are OK in this case, because of that 11-21 date as a time limit, but it really does leave a bad taste thinking about the whole issue, and solving the problem with donations. I really hope Amanda and everyone else still take all their bills and documentation and prepare statements of their demands to Gus, and go to court with all of that so that the debt gets eventually shifted onto Gus, especially if he really is a bastard and stole money, and simply does not want to pay but actually could. I of course do not know anything of the Philippine legal system, but it surely was influenced by European or US traders, so it cannot be that broken. Where I am from, lawyers are not needed to go to court for missing payments, and even if lawyers are needed, the costs of the court and the lawyers are capped by the amount that is contested, and it makes sense to got to court even for small amounts of money. | ||
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DueSs
United States765 Posts
GL in the efforts. | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote: The Amanda situation is not sad. The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money. Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. See the numerous replies (including my own) addressing this point. The presence of other charitable organizations does not negate the value in giving to something else. Whether one gives of their time, their resources, or both, everyone is allowed to give according to their means and their convictions. No one purpose is any more noble than any other. There is a lot of good being done by a lot of charities under a lot of different banners. Trying to judge people based on where they choose to give is petty. | ||
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grOuSe
12 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote: The Amanda situation is not sad. The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money. Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. By this logic there would be one charity that anyone should donate to? Small, focused community donation drives to solve isolated problems is a great tool. | ||
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:08 lookmanohandzz wrote: According to Amanda (unless I read it wrong) the money was raised on page 25. later on page 30 something she is still personally thanking people as they state they have donated money to help. That and the thread title are a little misleading imo. maybe they could/should update the thread title? Completely agree with this post. | ||
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Vindicate
United States169 Posts
What the IPL/IGN should do is irrelevant; the only thing that matters is what they will do. Do you honestly think if we as a community don't help Amanda IPL/IGN will suddenly go "Oh shit, the community didn't bail her out so I guess it falls on us?" IPL/IGN (which I will refer to as IPL for simplicity's sake) won't do anything. Why should they? What will they lose by not bailing her out? Are you all going to boycott their services and products? Will you organize rallies? Will you stop watching the IPL? No, you (and I) won't do any of those things. At worst IPL loses an infinitesimal amount of goodwill. They likely lose virtually nothing in income or viewership. Meanwhile Amanda goes to jail, loses her business, and has her life horrifically damaged. Yeah, go team! Not only did we show IPL what's what by doing absolutely fucking nothing, we showed Amanda that it's not ok to be defrauded or to help organize esports events. What a coup by the community! What an astounding moral victory by all the people who say "it's IPL's/Amanda's fault" for their individual situations. Whose fault it is doesn't fucking matter. What matters is what happens. You can argue morally compelling bullshit all day long, but we either A) help Amanda out, or B) do nothing and QQ about how IPL should have saved her when we had the power to. Yeah, that's a victory. Shameful. | ||
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Enervate
United States1769 Posts
If Amanda owes the money, I don't understand why people aren't suggesting that she pay it herself. She made a mistake. She was taken advantage of by a terrible person. She is probably a very good person. I'm very sorry for her. She deserves better. But you don't always get what or who you deserve in life. And in the end, she is at fault. From what I can tell she owes like 5k now. Considering she had a stable job before this, I would assume she could get by by selling stuff, cutting down on spending, getting a loan, asking family/friends for money, etc. If all of these paths were exhausted first, I would deem this charity event slightly less illegitimate. I can't fathom how her livelihood is at any substantial risk considering the recent course of events and how willing IGN/IPL is to make up for their mistake. Also, people have lost their jobs for far less than $12,000 mistakes, and I don't see anyone else complaining. I'm not posting this because I think this event is unnecessary. This is abusive. This is the community being taken advantage of. I think Gus or IPL or Amanda should pay this debt. And they should figure it out amongst themselves. Turning to the community to solve private problems should not be condoned, particularly when it isn't a last resort out of desperation. I'm going to clarify by explaining the purpose of charities. The purpose of charities is to help people who don't have the means or ability to help themselves. | ||
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Anytus
United States258 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote: The Amanda situation is not sad. The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money. Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. An important point, but think about how giving works psychologically. Yes, this money could probably also be used to stop people from starving, but that kind of indiscriminate giving to strangers is a very difficult thing to do. There are 2 ways to take care of a crowd, one is to have the loudest person stand up and tell everyone what to do and dispense out all the money etc. But, the other way is for everyone to take responsibility for those people just around them. And that's what we've got going on here. The community feels close to Amanda so they are helping her out. I think it misses the point completely to say that what someone is doing isn't right because its not the BEST thing that they could be doing. Clearly there are levels of here, and IMO helping Amanda out is more right than just letting her hang in the breeze. Whether giving money to stop people form starving is even more right than that is another debate and frankly I think its irrelevant. | ||
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rengarr
42 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote: The Amanda situation is not sad. The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money. Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. Personally, I wish the money donated would only serve as a "loan", Gus and whoever else is responsible in Team AZK would still have to pay us back. But instead of giving back the money to us, it would just be put into a charity of our choosing. That way Amanda's situation, and of the other people who got screwed over by Gus, get solved but Gus still has to pay for his mistakes. Oh well. | ||
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ELA
Denmark4608 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote: The Amanda situation is not sad. The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money. Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. Dude.. I don't know if you've ever heard of Copenhagen Consensus (Lomborg, prioritizing problems etc.), but I'm used to people telling me, that that the donations I make are stupid because I could do way more good with the same amount of money, giving it to Thailand instead of Somalia. Just let people show their support without indirectly calling them stupid T.T | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote: The Amanda situation is not sad. The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money. Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. You're basically saying: "Your friend losing his leg in a car accident isn't sad, you shouldn't try to help him, I know this girl who was a professional dancer that got bilateral gangrene and didn't have health insurance." | ||
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amanduh
Philippines45 Posts
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GenuineOne
United States37 Posts
This month Im in debt $1187 because I stupidly used my american express card, I got till Dec. 12 to pay it off. (im a full time student at university, I have a job but like max hours 8 a week) So ya, I know being in debt sucks, so I decided to donate $5 to Amanda....then after 5minutes I decided I was never going to pay my debt off so I donated another $5. Hopefully one of us makes it out of debt LOL Glad to see a community that really helps out people! And good luck to Amanda! | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:12 Enervate wrote: I don't understand. Does Gus owe money or not? If Gus owes money, just hire a private investigator and find him. There is no way someone like him can go completely off the radar. If Amanda owes the money, I don't understand why people aren't suggesting that she pay it herself. She made a mistake. She was taken advantage of by a terrible person. She is probably a very good person. I'm very sorry for her. She deserves better. But you don't always get what or who you deserve in life. And in the end, she is at fault. From what I can tell she owes like 5k now. Considering she had a stable job before this, I would assume she could get by by selling stuff, cutting down on spending, getting a loan, asking family/friends for money, etc. If all of these paths were exhausted first, I would deem this charity event slightly less illegitimate. I can't fathom how her livelihood is at any substantial risk considering the recent course of events and how willing IGN/IPL is to make up for their mistake. Also, people have lost their jobs for far less than $12,000 mistakes, and I don't see anyone else complaining. I'm not posting this because I think this event is unnecessary. This is abusive. This is the community being taken advantage of. I think Gus or IPL or Amanda should pay this debt. And they should figure it out amongst themselves. Turning to the community to solve private problems should not be condoned, particularly when it isn't a last resort out of desperation. I'm going to clarify by explaining the purpose of charities. The purpose of charities is to help people who don't have the means or ability to help themselves. Gus is AWOL and not communicating with anyone. IPL has no greater stake in any of this debt than any of the rest of us. That leaves Amanda with the bill and no one to "figure it out amongst themselves" with. Amanda did not concoct this drive. IGN does not owe this money. They saw a chance to right a wrong done to the volunteers of the tournament. They took it. The people in this thread and through the stream, with clear mind and sound conviction, CHOSE to give of their resources to help out. It wasn't forced on anyone. No one demanded it. No one held us up or attempted to guilt trip anyone else. People saw a need, felt sympathy for the people affected, and gave whatever they felt was appropriate to help out. What doesn't make sense are the people that come in after the fact to demean the whole process. Sure you can have and voice opinions over how valuable you think the endeavor was or how necessary, but that doesn't take away from the fact that it happened and the people who donated do not regret it. What is the sense in trying to make people regret it? Or to guilt trip them by saying they could have given the money to another charity? | ||
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Anytus
United States258 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:12 Enervate wrote: If Amanda owes the money, I don't understand why people aren't suggesting that she pay it herself. She made a mistake. She was taken advantage of by a terrible person. She is probably a very good person. I'm very sorry for her. She deserves better. But you don't always get what or who you deserve in life. And in the end, she is at fault. I'm going to clarify by explaining the purpose of charities. The purpose of charities is to help people who don't have the means or ability to help themselves. I think this is the crux of it. Is it ultimately her responsibility? Yes. And it really is because she is the one who could lose her job if it doesn't get paid. At the same time, we as a community can choose to make it our responsibility as well because we feel like a mistake has been made, but it was made in good faith and so we can help out. Everyone needs help in life sometimes when they make a mistake, we all know that so some of us choose to make this the time that we help out. If she knew what she was doing was risky but did it anyway, then of course she doesn't really deserve the help. She has a lesson to learn. But, if she made the mistake in good faith, ie thinking that it was a reasonable decision then she isn't really learning anything by not being helped out. Clearly, she already figured out that it in fact WAS a risky decision and it is probably the case that she already knows that one ought not bet on risky decisions. | ||
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amanduh
Philippines45 Posts
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