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On November 15 2011 14:35 amanduh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:31 Daray wrote:
Ugh, i'd donate but my paypal won't work until i get my new creditcard which should be i a few days T_T Lol just keep streaming 
We love you Amanda! <3 Just wondering if you'd be so kind as to letting us know the final figures of our donation =)
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On November 15 2011 14:40 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:30 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:24 ELA wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. Bad fucking taste, you are mocking the people who are donating by saying this.. So what? People can do what they like, but bailing someone out of a bad business decision isn't the role of the community. I would call the people that donated foolish. The fact that IGN is promoting this stream leaves a bad taste in my mouth too. It feels like they are shrugging off responsibility. If this was something organic from the community I would feel a bit better about it. It isn't anything person with Amanda, but she is in business. Do business properly or pay the consequences. Well, IPL actually used their own stream and their own casters and tech crew for this whole night's show, and will give up all of the revenue they get for this day of streaming. They are streaming replays from games that originally would have been streamed on the two days of the PPSL event, that they will never get the revenue from. So you could see it as them not really promoting a special charity stream, but only that paypal button on their page.
Says it right there.
IPL and Amanda hwaiting.
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Again thanks to everyone streaming and supporting the cause ... Im "forever indebted" now ^^
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On November 15 2011 14:42 InvXXVII wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:35 amanduh wrote:On November 15 2011 14:31 Daray wrote:
Ugh, i'd donate but my paypal won't work until i get my new creditcard which should be i a few days T_T Lol just keep streaming We love you Amanda! <3 Just wondering if you'd be so kind as to letting us know the final figures of our donation =)
Thanks well i do wait for IGN to quote me the figures i will post as soon as i know
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On November 15 2011 14:42 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:22 rengarr wrote:On November 15 2011 14:04 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:56 rengarr wrote:My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely. No. Not everyone is a fucking saint. Let's say I have $500 in my pocket. This $500 is spending money left over after bills and savings. I pass by charity for the homeless. I do not see what is fucking wrong if I were to just donate $100 instead of $500 so I have $400 to spend on stuff like games, fast food/fine dining, movies, or other types of luxuries. I want to help people but I certainly do not spend 8 hours a day in work, 5 days a week just so I can give someone all my spare cash. Of course. You chose to donate 1/5 of what you had in your pocket to charity. That's extremely generous actually, and reflects on your character. If IGN were like you, and they donated 1/5 of what was in their pocket (net profit for 2011) it would be $2,000,000 dollars. But Amanda didn't need $2,000,000 dollars. She needed $7,000 more, or 0.0007% of what was in IGN's pocket. And instead of giving it to her, they chose to ask you to cough it up instead.  The amount is immaterial. Your statement pretty much says that if I decide to contribute to a charity I have to give 100% or I'm "not sticking with my convictions" as you put it. I could have donated the entire $500, contributed my spare time making homes or working in a soup kitchen. So IGN isn't setting 20% of their money, so what? I didn't set aside 20% of what I can give for this cause either, what I donated was much smaller than that. And while I'm sure there were people here who may have contributed 100%, there also are people who gave away a portion of their spare change, however big or small that portion was. If you're saying that anyone being charitable must give as much as they can, that'll just result in less donations. Charities work because people can give small amounts. 0.0007% of the profit man. Just remmeber that number. It's IGN's right to do what they want, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to sit back and listen to IGN complain that they can't afford 0.0007% of their profits and need the help of (mostly) young people and college students to chip in.
You keep spouting these financial numbers, but a cursory search on my behalf doesn't reveal any data about IGN's operating profits or IPL's budget. Do you have a source for your numbers? I'm honestly curious. Not that it changes anything, of course. I don't think IGN has done anything wrong. Lending credibility to the drive as well as donating ad revenue and handling the transfer of the money to appropriate parties is more than would be expected of them.
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IGN isn't "complaining" that they don't have the cash, the IPL is. You seem to be confusing a department in a company for the entire company.
The IPL doesn't have the spare resources to pay the remaining $5K balance. So they're organizing a charity drive. How is that hard to understand? For someone with a background in business I'd expect a bit more attention to detail.
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On November 15 2011 14:15 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:10 Count9 wrote:On November 15 2011 13:58 Vindicate wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. Chill, if it was possible you were going to go to jail and lose your livelihood then absolutely, I'd be the first to donate. I am willing to bet the community would leap to your defense if life had the potential to go down in flames. This is Amanda's job, freedom, and potential future (credit risk, lack of employment possibilities due to these problems, etc) we're talking about. Because she screwed up and trusted someone she shouldn't have. I agree with Chill, just because E-Sports is tangentially related to a business screw up why would the community bail that business out? Doesn't make sense. Yeah, it sucks and I guess it's cool that people are nice/rich. Tangentially related? The screw up's direct purpose was to organize a live event. People enjoyed the tournament and/or feel bad for the staff who were screwed over. They could have taken better precautions, but that shouldn't completely preclude people from having sympathy, and the community has donated to other events in the past. In this case, it's to protect someone who tried to better the community by running an event. Chill, perhaps, but IPL has staked their name on it. This isn't Gretorp asking for donations to go to Korea so he'd make lessons for people. This is a major event organizer admitting to a fuck up and relying on their community to help remedy the situation.
Do you see nothing wrong with the bolded part? A legitimate business doesn't admit to a fuck up and then panhandle random strangers to fix their problems, especially when said business is a multi-million dollar corporation, and under the umbrella of the multi-billion dollar Rupert Murdoch owned News Corp. Do you not find it a bit ironic and disingenuous that such a company is panhandling on the internet to cover a mistake that cost them a few grand? You don't see MLG asking for donations when their satellite truck was damaged by hail. They footed the bill themselves. When their Dallas tourney was a train-wreck they didn't ask the community for a single thing, instead they apologized and gave back to the community by offering free services and improving future events.
IGN/IPL has taken the moral high-road by trying to resolve this outstanding debt issue. Considering they were the main sponsor for the event they had the most to gain from advertising. Hell, the event was even renamed the IPL4 Pacific Qualifer after their sponsorship. Not only was this a great advertising opportunity, but they were able to run their Pacific Qualifier without having to organize it themselves, which would have cost a lot more than $14,000 and a lot of man-hours. Now, instead of taking responsibility for their mistakes (the mistake of partnering with PPSL in the first place), they have projected their moral high-ground decision onto random strangers that they've never met. Where is IGN/IPL's accountability in all of this? That's right, it doesn't exist, because they pandered it off on all of us.
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Just heard about this a bit too late, what an unfortunate situation. Thankfully there's a rebroadcast, I'll leave that running in the background.
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Osaka27147 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:40 Ropid wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:30 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:24 ELA wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. Bad fucking taste, you are mocking the people who are donating by saying this.. So what? People can do what they like, but bailing someone out of a bad business decision isn't the role of the community. I would call the people that donated foolish. The fact that IGN is promoting this stream leaves a bad taste in my mouth too. It feels like they are shrugging off responsibility. If this was something organic from the community I would feel a bit better about it. It isn't anything person with Amanda, but she is in business. Do business properly or pay the consequences. Well, IPL actually used their own stream and their own casters and tech crew for this whole night's show, and will give up all of the revenue they get for this day of streaming. They are streaming replays from games that originally would have been streamed on the two days of the PPSL event, that they will never get the revenue from. So you could see it as them not really promoting a special charity stream, but only that paypal button on their page.
I think that is really good of them, they should be commended for that. I just don't like the fact they are asking the community to subsidize what I feel is an issue of business.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 14:42 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:22 rengarr wrote:On November 15 2011 14:04 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:56 rengarr wrote:My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely. No. Not everyone is a fucking saint. Let's say I have $500 in my pocket. This $500 is spending money left over after bills and savings. I pass by charity for the homeless. I do not see what is fucking wrong if I were to just donate $100 instead of $500 so I have $400 to spend on stuff like games, fast food/fine dining, movies, or other types of luxuries. I want to help people but I certainly do not spend 8 hours a day in work, 5 days a week just so I can give someone all my spare cash. Of course. You chose to donate 1/5 of what you had in your pocket to charity. That's extremely generous actually, and reflects on your character. If IGN were like you, and they donated 1/5 of what was in their pocket (net profit for 2011) it would be $2,000,000 dollars. But Amanda didn't need $2,000,000 dollars. She needed $7,000 more, or 0.0007% of what was in IGN's pocket. And instead of giving it to her, they chose to ask you to cough it up instead. The amount is immaterial. Your statement pretty much says that if I decide to contribute to a charity I have to give 100% or I'm "not sticking with my convictions" as you put it. I could have donated the entire $500, contributed my spare time making homes or working in a soup kitchen. So IGN isn't setting 20% of their money, so what? I didn't set aside 20% of what I can give for this cause either, what I donated was much smaller than that. And while I'm sure there were people here who may have contributed 100%, there also are people who gave away a portion of their spare change, however big or small that portion was. If you're saying that anyone being charitable must give as much as they can, that'll just result in less donations. Charities work because people can give small amounts. 0.0007% of the profit man. Just remmeber that number. It's IGN's right to do what they want, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to sit back and listen to IGN complain that they can't afford 0.0007% of their profits and need the help of (mostly) young people and college students to chip in.
I don't see what the problem is really. So people donated to help Amanda. And that's good on them. The community just needed someone reputable to know who to give their donations to the help amanda pay off her debt. Again, I don't see an issue there.
IGN/IPL didn't just sit and let the community do its thing. They set up the stream, set up the fund raiser for amanda. So what more do you want?
Did IGN/IPL force anyone to donate?
Also, IPL is making it clear that the 7k usd is the balance they withheld from Gus, they never claimed it was a donation. They also stated how the donation would help the aggrieved parties. So again, its just a fund raiser through a reputable organization wherein no one was forced to donate anything, even if those that donated were young/college, it doesn't mean IGN brainwashed them to donate. It was out of the respective persons heart to help. Plain and simple.
No issue there right?
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If you don't want to donate to her, then don't, nobody is waiting around the corner to mug you and take your money and nobody will say you are a bad person.
But there's no point to saying this is an unnecessary event that is being used by IPL to promote themselves and they should just give money to Amanda themselves. We are all free to choose.
And hell, if something is not done because some people deem it unnecessary/incorrect, then Starcraft wouldn't exist.
Amanda, good luck with this mess. And hopefully whatever money leftover from the donations will be used to hire mercenaries/assassins/ninjas/hitmen/SEAL Team Six to track down Gus, and stick him into a pitch black jail cell with a 24-hour illuminated picture of Sad, Sad Elly.
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On November 15 2011 14:21 Manifesto7 wrote:
I wonder if Gus got her headset too.
Oh god I laughed so hard, well played.
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Can IPL/TGR at least confirm that they've seen receipts for everything and confirm they've not been paid? I mean come on, she's on the same team as Gus, refuses to release any information awaiting a statement by Gus (nearly 10 days after the event), etc. Surely this smells a bit funky?
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On November 15 2011 14:42 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:22 rengarr wrote:On November 15 2011 14:04 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:56 rengarr wrote:My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely. No. Not everyone is a fucking saint. Let's say I have $500 in my pocket. This $500 is spending money left over after bills and savings. I pass by charity for the homeless. I do not see what is fucking wrong if I were to just donate $100 instead of $500 so I have $400 to spend on stuff like games, fast food/fine dining, movies, or other types of luxuries. I want to help people but I certainly do not spend 8 hours a day in work, 5 days a week just so I can give someone all my spare cash. Of course. You chose to donate 1/5 of what you had in your pocket to charity. That's extremely generous actually, and reflects on your character. If IGN were like you, and they donated 1/5 of what was in their pocket (net profit for 2011) it would be $2,000,000 dollars. But Amanda didn't need $2,000,000 dollars. She needed $7,000 more, or 0.0007% of what was in IGN's pocket. And instead of giving it to her, they chose to ask you to cough it up instead. The amount is immaterial. Your statement pretty much says that if I decide to contribute to a charity I have to give 100% or I'm "not sticking with my convictions" as you put it. I could have donated the entire $500, contributed my spare time making homes or working in a soup kitchen. So IGN isn't setting 20% of their money, so what? I didn't set aside 20% of what I can give for this cause either, what I donated was much smaller than that. And while I'm sure there were people here who may have contributed 100%, there also are people who gave away a portion of their spare change, however big or small that portion was. If you're saying that anyone being charitable must give as much as they can, that'll just result in less donations. Charities work because people can give small amounts. 0.0007% of the profit man. Just remmeber that number. It's IGN's right to do what they want, but it doesn't mean that I'm going to sit back and listen to IGN complain that they can't afford 0.0007% of their profits and need the help of (mostly) young people and college students to chip in.
But that won't be good business. Imagine this setting a precedent for whoever works with IGN/IPL in future. "Hey lets not try our best to do a bang-up job because IGN/IPL will foot the bill later, lest they want to get hounded by the community!"
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I'm glad you guys have such big hearts, and it's entirely your choice; it's charity, it's your money, give it to whomever you want. But honestly, everything should be coming out of IPL/IGNs pockets, not yours. Good luck to everyone, I hope it gets resolved.
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Against donating and don't want to donate? Don't. Better turn on that adblock or not watch the stream all together, lest you look like a hypocrite. As for me, I may not have money to give, but I can definitely watch some starcraft and ads to help out someone in need.
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On November 15 2011 14:49 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:40 Ropid wrote:On November 15 2011 14:30 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:24 ELA wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. Bad fucking taste, you are mocking the people who are donating by saying this.. So what? People can do what they like, but bailing someone out of a bad business decision isn't the role of the community. I would call the people that donated foolish. The fact that IGN is promoting this stream leaves a bad taste in my mouth too. It feels like they are shrugging off responsibility. If this was something organic from the community I would feel a bit better about it. It isn't anything person with Amanda, but she is in business. Do business properly or pay the consequences. Well, IPL actually used their own stream and their own casters and tech crew for this whole night's show, and will give up all of the revenue they get for this day of streaming. They are streaming replays from games that originally would have been streamed on the two days of the PPSL event, that they will never get the revenue from. So you could see it as them not really promoting a special charity stream, but only that paypal button on their page. I think that is really good of them, they should be commended for that. I just don't like the fact they are asking the community to subsidize what I feel is an issue of business.
i dont see how its her fault though, and its not like this can be anything /bad/. this can only help. helping out someone in need is never a bad thing.
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On November 15 2011 14:49 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:40 Ropid wrote:On November 15 2011 14:30 Manifesto7 wrote:On November 15 2011 14:24 ELA wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. Bad fucking taste, you are mocking the people who are donating by saying this.. So what? People can do what they like, but bailing someone out of a bad business decision isn't the role of the community. I would call the people that donated foolish. The fact that IGN is promoting this stream leaves a bad taste in my mouth too. It feels like they are shrugging off responsibility. If this was something organic from the community I would feel a bit better about it. It isn't anything person with Amanda, but she is in business. Do business properly or pay the consequences. Well, IPL actually used their own stream and their own casters and tech crew for this whole night's show, and will give up all of the revenue they get for this day of streaming. They are streaming replays from games that originally would have been streamed on the two days of the PPSL event, that they will never get the revenue from. So you could see it as them not really promoting a special charity stream, but only that paypal button on their page. I think that is really good of them, they should be commended for that. I just don't like the fact they are asking the community to subsidize what I feel is an issue of business.
So you think Gus was doing business, and not scamming?
"Well, you chose who you do business with" - Clearly, but the Philipines dosn't have the legal system that we have. It's extremely hard to cover yourself from this ever happening to you.
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EPT
