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On November 15 2011 15:14 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote:
The Amanda situation is not sad.
The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money.
Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. You're basically saying: "Your friend losing his leg in a car accident isn't sad, you shouldn't try to help him, I know this girl who was a professional dancer that got bilateral gangrene and didn't have health insurance."
No, I'm not. I simply find it ironic that we stare at the UNHCR ad everyday surfing TL.net, possibly taking no action in any of its pleas, yet this Amanda situation appears, gaining the support of thousands, and using money that could potentially save a whole lot more people.
Take a step back and look at it. You hold in your hand the power to save one person you have some inkling of a relationship to, or thousands of others you don't know. I would save the one person myself, but thats probably because I'm a cold hearted bitch, however, that is exactly what makes the situation sad.
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even with the money raised and amanda bailed from possible jailtime, the fiasco is far from over. from the way i see it, the "charity" drive is just a temporary measure to keep amanda out of trouble (regardless whether she was innocent or screwed by bad business practice) before the full investigation completes. gus still have a lot to answer for.
it is just the beginning.
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On November 15 2011 15:24 kKagari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:14 VirgilSC2 wrote:On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote:
The Amanda situation is not sad.
The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money.
Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. You're basically saying: "Your friend losing his leg in a car accident isn't sad, you shouldn't try to help him, I know this girl who was a professional dancer that got bilateral gangrene and didn't have health insurance." No, I'm not. I simply find it ironic that we stare at the UNHCR ad everyday surfing TL.net, possibly taking no action in any of its pleas, yet this Amanda situation appears, gaining the support of thousands, and using money that could potentially save a whole lot more people. Take a step back and look at it. You hold in your hand the power to save one person you have some inkling of a relationship to, or thousands of others you don't know. I would save the one person myself, but thats probably because I'm a cold hearted bitch, however, that is exactly what makes the situation sad.
But it makes it no more of a sad situation than exists everytime you purchase anything that you do not need to survive. You're constantly making decisions about how to spend disposable income. All of that money could go to worthwhile charities, instead of to TV, internet, restaurants, movies, SC2, online streams, or other non-essential activities.
Saying that donating to this drive makes the situation sad is implying that the money would have gone to another charity instead. It's far more likely that this money would have gone to a selfish endeavor and that the money any of us would have given to other charities will not be affected by the fact that we helped out in this instance.
Money given to charities is not necessarily zero-sum. In fact, there's likely evidence out there that the good feelings garnered by helping out Amanda would lead to more charitable giving overall rather than less.
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On November 15 2011 15:12 Vindicate wrote:
To everyone who is confusing the moral/practical issue:
What the IPL/IGN should do is irrelevant; the only thing that matters is what they will do. Do you honestly think if we as a community don't help Amanda IPL/IGN will suddenly go "Oh shit, the community didn't bail her out so I guess it falls on us?" IPL/IGN (which I will refer to as IPL for simplicity's sake) won't do anything. Why should they? What will they lose by not bailing her out? Are you all going to boycott their services and products? Will you organize rallies? Will you stop watching the IPL? No, you (and I) won't do any of those things. At worst IPL loses an infinitesimal amount of goodwill. They likely lose virtually nothing in income or viewership. Meanwhile Amanda goes to jail, loses her business, and has her life horrifically damaged. Yeah, go team! Not only did we show IPL what's what by doing absolutely fucking nothing, we showed Amanda that it's not ok to be defrauded or to help organize esports events. What a coup by the community! What an astounding moral victory by all the people who say "it's IPL's/Amanda's fault" for their individual situations.
Whose fault it is doesn't fucking matter. What matters is what happens. You can argue morally compelling bullshit all day long, but we either A) help Amanda out, or B) do nothing and QQ about how IPL should have saved her when we had the power to. Yeah, that's a victory.
Shameful.
You make the completely false assertion that IPL is not a stakeholder in this event. They are sponsors, not some anonymous charity who donated $14,000 to PPSL for the sake of good will. The sponsorship affects the reputation of their brand, advertising, relations in the industry, and access to potential commercial benefits and opportunities that may arise in the future. It's a business and it's imperative they get this right. By your logic they should be starting charities for everyone in need since it fulfills your criteria of "losing virtually nothing".
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On November 15 2011 15:24 kKagari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:14 VirgilSC2 wrote:On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote:
The Amanda situation is not sad.
The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money.
Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. You're basically saying: "Your friend losing his leg in a car accident isn't sad, you shouldn't try to help him, I know this girl who was a professional dancer that got bilateral gangrene and didn't have health insurance." No, I'm not. I simply find it ironic that we stare at the UNHCR ad everyday surfing TL.net, possibly taking no action in any of its pleas, yet this Amanda situation appears, gaining the support of thousands, and using money that could potentially save a whole lot more people. Take a step back and look at it. You hold in your hand the power to save one person you have some inkling of a relationship to, or thousands of others you don't know. I would save the one person myself, but thats probably because I'm a cold hearted bitch, however, that is exactly what makes the situation sad.
Not everyone sees the same ads, first off, I know a lot of TL surfers use AdBlocker (which I am strongly against), and I have never seen an ad for UNHCR. Perhaps if the UNHCR was personally appealing to the ESPORTS community it would receive more attention. All of my ads today were for JimmyJohns, which I subsequently ordered for lunch.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
donated~
oh man if this is a scam within a scam it'd be so inception
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Seems somewhat fair. The reality is that these games would've been broadcast on IPL's stream and probably had the benefit of more viewers and more revenue had they not pulled their support after the day 1 disaster. I'm not saying IPL was wrong, but to those saying they aren't taking responsibility, I think this makes up for their part in the PPSL situation. Given that the earnings are going to PPSL related debt, it's pretty equivalent to having had the PPSL earn this money in the first place to pay for itself. It's just that with this format, there is no question about how the money is being spent / where it's going.
I'm just surprised that people haven't actually found Gus at this point. In this day in age, it's actually pretty easy to track someone down.
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On November 15 2011 15:22 amanduh wrote:
Oh and point being if you do go to a travel agency, a bargain about payment can be made. As this is what i did as i wanted to help him out. I am a gamer as well and that given the opportunity to participate in a way with esports well i took the gamble.
A 12K bargain/gamble, with no real contract? No comment..
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United States925 Posts
On November 15 2011 15:24 kKagari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:14 VirgilSC2 wrote:On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote:
The Amanda situation is not sad.
The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money.
Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. You're basically saying: "Your friend losing his leg in a car accident isn't sad, you shouldn't try to help him, I know this girl who was a professional dancer that got bilateral gangrene and didn't have health insurance." No, I'm not. I simply find it ironic that we stare at the UNHCR ad everyday surfing TL.net, possibly taking no action in any of its pleas, yet this Amanda situation appears, gaining the support of thousands, and using money that could potentially save a whole lot more people. Take a step back and look at it. You hold in your hand the power to save one person you have some inkling of a relationship to, or thousands of others you don't know. I would save the one person myself, but thats probably because I'm a cold hearted bitch, however, that is exactly what makes the situation sad.
By this logic, anything we've ever purchased that didn't go to necessitate our survival, should have gone to helping someone in need.
Look in your very room. What have you purchased and "donated" your money to, that should've went to a charitable organization instead.
Acting like someone sitting on a high horse, because a community is helping out a person in one problem and not another is simply downright terrible.
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On November 15 2011 15:30 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:12 Vindicate wrote:
To everyone who is confusing the moral/practical issue:
What the IPL/IGN should do is irrelevant; the only thing that matters is what they will do. Do you honestly think if we as a community don't help Amanda IPL/IGN will suddenly go "Oh shit, the community didn't bail her out so I guess it falls on us?" IPL/IGN (which I will refer to as IPL for simplicity's sake) won't do anything. Why should they? What will they lose by not bailing her out? Are you all going to boycott their services and products? Will you organize rallies? Will you stop watching the IPL? No, you (and I) won't do any of those things. At worst IPL loses an infinitesimal amount of goodwill. They likely lose virtually nothing in income or viewership. Meanwhile Amanda goes to jail, loses her business, and has her life horrifically damaged. Yeah, go team! Not only did we show IPL what's what by doing absolutely fucking nothing, we showed Amanda that it's not ok to be defrauded or to help organize esports events. What a coup by the community! What an astounding moral victory by all the people who say "it's IPL's/Amanda's fault" for their individual situations.
Whose fault it is doesn't fucking matter. What matters is what happens. You can argue morally compelling bullshit all day long, but we either A) help Amanda out, or B) do nothing and QQ about how IPL should have saved her when we had the power to. Yeah, that's a victory.
Shameful. You make the completely false assertion that IPL is not a stakeholder in this event. They are sponsors, not some anonymous charity who donated $14,000 to PPSL for the sake of good will. The sponsorship affects the reputation of their brand, advertising, relations in the industry, and access to potential commercial benefits and opportunities that may arise in the future. It's a business and it's imperative they get this right. By your logic they should be starting charities for everyone in need since it fulfills your criteria of "losing virtually nothing".
You're quite right in highlighting that the IPL is a stakeholder in this event, and in your connection of sponsorship and the like to their conduct. My point is that those same sponsors, advertising opportunities, etc. won't be affected by not bailing out Amanda. This is a pretty minor P.R. stunt in the grand scheme of all IPL's sponsors, viewers, and other sources of income. I also agree that they should be handling this, not us, but I stand by my original assertion that the IPL won't do anything since the sponsors/viewers/etc won't penalize them for said lack of action.
I can be unclear in my writing so I hope I more definitely illustrated my stance.
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On November 15 2011 15:31 intrigue wrote:
donated~
oh man if this is a scam within a scam it'd be so inception
Haha. The only thing better than helping Amanda get her money back and keeping her in business would be an inception twist.
Sorry Amanda, but that would be pretty sweet. 
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On November 15 2011 15:24 kKagari wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:14 VirgilSC2 wrote:On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote:
The Amanda situation is not sad.
The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money.
Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. You're basically saying: "Your friend losing his leg in a car accident isn't sad, you shouldn't try to help him, I know this girl who was a professional dancer that got bilateral gangrene and didn't have health insurance." No, I'm not. I simply find it ironic that we stare at the UNHCR ad everyday surfing TL.net, possibly taking no action in any of its pleas, yet this Amanda situation appears, gaining the support of thousands, and using money that could potentially save a whole lot more people. Take a step back and look at it. You hold in your hand the power to save one person you have some inkling of a relationship to, or thousands of others you don't know. I would save the one person myself, but thats probably because I'm a cold hearted bitch, however, that is exactly what makes the situation sad.
This gets more attention then the UNHCR ad because it's an event.
Tonnes of people tuned in and detonated to TLO's/Sheth's/Destiny's charity event too. I don't see your point.
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On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote:
The Amanda situation is not sad.
The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money.
Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood.
Have you ever heard 1 death is a tragedy, 1000 is a statistic? I don't agree with the statement, but it's definitely true.
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On November 15 2011 15:28 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:24 kKagari wrote:On November 15 2011 15:14 VirgilSC2 wrote:On November 15 2011 15:07 kKagari wrote:
The Amanda situation is not sad.
The fact that because of the PPSL fiasco, the esports community is asked to donate a large sum of money to spot ONE PERSON out of trouble is sad, when compared to the people suffering in the UNHCR advertisement we have on TL, and how many thousands we can be saving with the same amount of money.
Amanda should be helped, yes. But perhaps monetary aid should go somewhere else if you are in a donating mood. You're basically saying: "Your friend losing his leg in a car accident isn't sad, you shouldn't try to help him, I know this girl who was a professional dancer that got bilateral gangrene and didn't have health insurance." No, I'm not. I simply find it ironic that we stare at the UNHCR ad everyday surfing TL.net, possibly taking no action in any of its pleas, yet this Amanda situation appears, gaining the support of thousands, and using money that could potentially save a whole lot more people. Take a step back and look at it. You hold in your hand the power to save one person you have some inkling of a relationship to, or thousands of others you don't know. I would save the one person myself, but thats probably because I'm a cold hearted bitch, however, that is exactly what makes the situation sad. But it makes it no more of a sad situation than exists everytime you purchase anything that you do not need to survive. You're constantly making decisions about how to spend disposable income. All of that money could go to worthwhile charities, instead of to TV, internet, restaurants, movies, SC2, online streams, or other non-essential activities. Saying that donating to this drive makes the situation sad is implying that the money would have gone to another charity instead. It's far more likely that this money would have gone to a selfish endeavor and that the money any of us would have given to other charities will not be affected by the fact that we helped out in this instance. Money given to charities is not necessarily zero-sum. In fact, there's likely evidence out there that the good feelings garnered by helping out Amanda would lead to more charitable giving overall rather than less.
Fair enough. I guess we happen to stand on different sides of the fence. Having brought about this issue I will donate money to UNHCR >.>
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 15:30 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 15:12 Vindicate wrote:
To everyone who is confusing the moral/practical issue:
What the IPL/IGN should do is irrelevant; the only thing that matters is what they will do. Do you honestly think if we as a community don't help Amanda IPL/IGN will suddenly go "Oh shit, the community didn't bail her out so I guess it falls on us?" IPL/IGN (which I will refer to as IPL for simplicity's sake) won't do anything. Why should they? What will they lose by not bailing her out? Are you all going to boycott their services and products? Will you organize rallies? Will you stop watching the IPL? No, you (and I) won't do any of those things. At worst IPL loses an infinitesimal amount of goodwill. They likely lose virtually nothing in income or viewership. Meanwhile Amanda goes to jail, loses her business, and has her life horrifically damaged. Yeah, go team! Not only did we show IPL what's what by doing absolutely fucking nothing, we showed Amanda that it's not ok to be defrauded or to help organize esports events. What a coup by the community! What an astounding moral victory by all the people who say "it's IPL's/Amanda's fault" for their individual situations.
Whose fault it is doesn't fucking matter. What matters is what happens. You can argue morally compelling bullshit all day long, but we either A) help Amanda out, or B) do nothing and QQ about how IPL should have saved her when we had the power to. Yeah, that's a victory.
Shameful. You make the completely false assertion that IPL is not a stakeholder in this event. They are sponsors, not some anonymous charity who donated $14,000 to PPSL for the sake of good will. The sponsorship affects the reputation of their brand, advertising, relations in the industry, and access to potential commercial benefits and opportunities that may arise in the future. It's a business and it's imperative they get this right. By your logic they should be starting charities for everyone in need since it fulfills your criteria of "losing virtually nothing".
IPL/IGN was just a sponsor. And they went beyond what a sponsor should and is expected to do. Hell, you don't see any of the other sponsors of the event doing something like IGN/IPL doing. You should delineate the line between organizer and sponsor. Sponsor are stakeholders, YES! But they are in no way responsible for the organizer other than they trusted the organizer and sponsored the organizer. End of story. Will sponsors have backlash of any negative actions by the organizer? Yes, it would have repercusions but it doesn't change the fact that they were just sponsors.
If you keep asking IPL/IGN as a sponsor to just simply shoulder everything, then just plainly say all the sponsors should do so, and not just IGN/IPL if you want to be "fair" about the whole situation. The logic would then go, major sponsors shoulder x% amount of the debt while minor sponsor's equally share x% amount of the remaining debt, right?
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On November 15 2011 15:12 Vindicate wrote:
To everyone who is confusing the moral/practical issue:
What the IPL/IGN should do is irrelevant; the only thing that matters is what they will do.
No, it's not irrelevant. TL is more than just a place to watch streams, it's a forum to discuss various issues with a diverse population of individuals. And many of the people posting in this thread feel strongly that IGN's role in the charity is misguided in one way or another. It's ok for members of the community to voice their opinion and share their feedback. In example, we can thank thousands of protesters and "loud-mouths" for getting us out of a $5 debit card fees that the banking industry was ready to slap everyone with. It does help to voice opinions.
I'm of the opinion that IGN/IPL showed some merit in donating some of the charity money. Many corporations would donate zero money.
But then again, there are a few corporations that have quality individuals working for them in decision-making positions, and the thought process of those individuals might be : "hmm, this is just a drop in the bucket - let's take care of it." Remainder of the money gets donated. Done. No PR stunt necessary.
Obviously, IGN is somewhere in between. It went half-way and then begged our strong community to finish the rest. Just remember that IGN/IPL is not this unbelievably generous and amazing company that they are positioning themselves as by hosting this charity. I've worked for companies that have less income than IGN and would take care of Amanda's situation in a heartbeat if were related to the business. And yes, Amanda's situation is directly related to the business at hand.
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On November 15 2011 15:31 intrigue wrote:
donated~
oh man if this is a scam within a scam it'd be so inception
It sorta of is. Amanda got her money, it has not been very clearly stated, op not updated, the thread title has not been updated and people like yourself are still donating. Amanda does not state in every post her thanks. I know if I got helped out of a 12K jam I would be spamming thank you post.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Wow I can't believe this debate is still raging on
The internet is a funny/scary place
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Just donated 1 second ago. Amanda got really screwed over and I felt it was a very worthy cause to keep her out of serious legal trouble.
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EPT
