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On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
horrible analogy. this isn't something small--someone got scammed by a huge amount of money and she can potentially be jailed and she will lose her job and her business would potentially crash as well.
i'm pretty sure if you were in amanda's shoes right now, us posters here in team liquid would not hesitate to help you.
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I think both posts by ajaiIGN and amanda pretty much explains why so much trust was placed on gus.
Edit: will quote posts as posting from my mobile right now.
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I'll try to drop a couple of bucks later on tomorrow.
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On November 15 2011 13:58 Vindicate wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. Chill, if it was possible you were going to go to jail and lose your livelihood then absolutely, I'd be the first to donate. I am willing to bet the community would leap to your defense if life had the potential to go down in flames. This is Amanda's job, freedom, and potential future (credit risk, lack of employment possibilities due to these problems, etc) we're talking about.
Because she screwed up and trusted someone she shouldn't have. I agree with Chill, just because E-Sports is tangentially related to a business screw up why would the community bail that business out? Doesn't make sense. Yeah, it sucks and I guess it's cool that people are nice/rich.
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On November 15 2011 14:08 bibbaly wrote:
If you guys want your money to go to a reputable charity just go to The Red Cross or Doctors without Borders, this isn't a charity, this is pan-handling and the thread title should reflect as such.
The presence of other reputable charities does not make other acts of charity less valuable or worthwhile. How people choose to spend their charitable givings is up to them. Whether that's to help a single friend in need, to volunteer time in the community, or to donate to larger non-profits. Everyone may give according to their means and their convictions. Trying to judge people based on where they choose to donate is petty.
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On November 15 2011 14:08 Codeskye wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. horrible analogy. this isn't something small--someone got scammed by a huge amount of money and she can potentially be jailed and she will lose her job and her business would potentially crash as well. i'm pretty sure if you were in amanda's shoes right now, us posters here in team liquid would not hesitate to help you.
You are only looking at his analogy and not the second part of his post, the precedent this is setting is terrible not only for the parties involved but for the community as a whole.
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United States22883 Posts
On November 15 2011 14:10 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:58 Vindicate wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. Chill, if it was possible you were going to go to jail and lose your livelihood then absolutely, I'd be the first to donate. I am willing to bet the community would leap to your defense if life had the potential to go down in flames. This is Amanda's job, freedom, and potential future (credit risk, lack of employment possibilities due to these problems, etc) we're talking about. Because she screwed up and trusted someone she shouldn't have. I agree with Chill, just because E-Sports is tangentially related to a business screw up why would the community bail that business out? Doesn't make sense. Yeah, it sucks and I guess it's cool that people are nice/rich.
Tangentially related? The screw up's direct purpose was to organize a live event.
People enjoyed the tournament and/or feel bad for the staff who were screwed over. They could have taken better precautions, but that shouldn't completely preclude people from having sympathy, and the community has donated to other events in the past. In this case, it's to protect someone who tried to better the community by running an event.
Chill, perhaps, but IPL has staked their name on it. This isn't Gretorp asking for donations to go to Korea so he'd make lessons for people. This is a major event organizer admitting to a fuck up and relying on their community to help remedy the situation.
And even with IPL's name attached to it, there's no reason to donate even if you feel uncomfortable with the prospects of it. Yoiu can leave your stream open or simply do nothing at all and ignore it. I don't think this is setting precedent for anything. We've seen similar calls for help several times before.
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I'll try to stay out of the moral debate here and just wish everyone good luck in sorting out this mess. ☺
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 14:04 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:56 rengarr wrote:My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely. No. Not everyone is a fucking saint. Let's say I have $500 in my pocket. This $500 is spending money left over after bills and savings. I pass by charity for the homeless. I do not see what is fucking wrong if I were to just donate $100 instead of $500 so I have $400 to spend on stuff like games, fast food/fine dining, movies, or other types of luxuries. I want to help people but I certainly do not spend 8 hours a day in work, 5 days a week just so I can give someone all my spare cash. Of course. You chose to donate 1/5 of what you had in your pocket to charity. That's extremely generous actually, and reflects on your character. If IGN were like you, and they donated 1/5 of what was in their pocket (net profit for 2011) it would be $2,000,000 dollars. But Amanda didn't need $2,000,000 dollars. She needed $7,000 more, or 0.0007% of what was in IGN's pocket. And instead of giving it to her, they chose to ask you to cough it up instead. 
The bigger picture it sets a bad precedent for any event of IPL/IGN's involvement in any way/shape/form whenever they are sponsor (which doesn't give them responsibility to pay debts/obligations).
You are asking a company to shoulder instead of holding a fundraiser which is wrong. They were a sponsor, which clearly doesn't give them the responsibility but has an effect on their brand.
The action of IPL sponsoring is basically a cross promotional thing with SEA scene. PPSL is shown to the world and IPL is shown more in the SEA scene that allows it to more easily penetrate the SEA scene. That much is clear from a business standpoint. But they were a sponsor, nothing more. Making it a qualifier is a sponsorship in kind. Just because it wasn't money doesn't mean it wasn't a sponsorship in essense.
IPL hosting the fundraiser just makes it a more valid and trustworthy fundraiser. It isn't that difficult to understand. Think about it, who else would people trust to run a fund raiser for Amanda. Only a few people I could think of, IPL/IGN, TGR and Dox. Anyone else would be questionable as most wouldn't even know how they were connected and there was less of a guarantee it would actually go to aid those who PPSL was indebted to.
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On November 15 2011 14:10 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:58 Vindicate wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. Chill, if it was possible you were going to go to jail and lose your livelihood then absolutely, I'd be the first to donate. I am willing to bet the community would leap to your defense if life had the potential to go down in flames. This is Amanda's job, freedom, and potential future (credit risk, lack of employment possibilities due to these problems, etc) we're talking about. Because she screwed up and trusted someone she shouldn't have. I agree with Chill, just because E-Sports is tangentially related to a business screw up why would the community bail that business out? Doesn't make sense. Yeah, it sucks and I guess it's cool that people are nice/rich.
how are you even telling her she screwed up? with your logic, that means IGN aso screwed up?
there is no one to blame here but the culprit guz ledesma. everybody else is a victim.
no one is forcing you to donate. if you don't donate, then that is fine and there is no problem with that. keyword "forcing".
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On November 15 2011 14:08 bibbaly wrote:
If you guys want your money to go to a reputable charity just go to The Red Cross or Doctors without Borders, this isn't a charity, this is pan-handling and the thread title should reflect as such.
Panhandling implies that we are giving something away for nothing in return. Please note that we are getting to watch the ppsl matches in return for this.
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In part i never asked IGN to put up something like this for us as i didnt know till about a couple of hrs or so prior the start of the event that there was going to be an event. A lot of people do not agree with what the people in the community have been doing as far as shelling out money, wtching the streams etc but point i am most grateful as to whats happening now as we never thought this will be the result of informing the community whats been happening. Never in a million years did i think this was gonna happen
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On November 15 2011 14:13 bibbaly wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:08 Codeskye wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. horrible analogy. this isn't something small--someone got scammed by a huge amount of money and she can potentially be jailed and she will lose her job and her business would potentially crash as well. i'm pretty sure if you were in amanda's shoes right now, us posters here in team liquid would not hesitate to help you. You are only looking at his analogy and not the second part of his post, the precedent this is setting is terrible not only for the parties involved but for the community as a whole.
Neither you nor Chill elaborate on why. The only thing we're left to assume is you're arguing the slippery slope. As though, any time someone ends up getting screwed the community would suddenly be "forced" to pay for it with charity streams. That doesn't make sense. Nor does it hold up when you look at recent examples.
Did donating money to bring MKP to MLG lead to tons of drives to bring other players to MLG? No.
Did donating money to help Day9 pay for college lead to tons of drives to pay off major expenses for other community pillars? No.
There's no reason to expect that this will turn into a slippery slope. There's little precedent (especially in SC2) for volunteers to be scammed so severely. This isn't a few hundred dollars, it's over ten grand. That's a staggering amount of fraud and something that I personally would not be able to weather financially, nor would many of the readers here.
If you're going to say it's a bad precedent, at least explain HOW you think it will lead to some grand slipper slope. Because what I see here is a very bad situation occurred, and the community stepped up to right a wrong. I don't see a more sinister plot unfolding.
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On November 15 2011 14:12 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:08 bibbaly wrote:
If you guys want your money to go to a reputable charity just go to The Red Cross or Doctors without Borders, this isn't a charity, this is pan-handling and the thread title should reflect as such. The presence of other reputable charities does not make other acts of charity less valuable or worthwhile. How people choose to spend their charitable givings is up to them. Whether that's to help a single friend in need, to volunteer time in the community, or to donate to larger non-profits. Everyone may give according to their means and their convictions. Trying to judge people based on where they choose to donate is petty.
True, if people want to give money to IGN then go ahead make yourself feel better, but it is shit like this that is damaging to the community. IGN wants the community to pay for the mistake when the facts surrounding this case are few and far between.
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On November 15 2011 14:04 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:56 rengarr wrote:My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely. No. Not everyone is a fucking saint. Let's say I have $500 in my pocket. This $500 is spending money left over after bills and savings. I pass by charity for the homeless. I do not see what is fucking wrong if I were to just donate $100 instead of $500 so I have $400 to spend on stuff like games, fast food/fine dining, movies, or other types of luxuries. I want to help people but I certainly do not spend 8 hours a day in work, 5 days a week just so I can give someone all my spare cash. Of course. You chose to donate 1/5 of what you had in your pocket to charity. That's extremely generous actually, and reflects on your character. If IGN were like you, and they donated 1/5 of what was in their pocket (net profit for 2011) it would be $2,000,000 dollars. But Amanda didn't need $2,000,000 dollars. She needed $7,000 more, or 0.0007% of what was in IGN's pocket. And instead of giving it to her, they chose to ask you to cough it up instead.
Agreed.
If you own factories all over the world and one of your newly hired factory managers fucked up and is now down $10k on wages, it's your responsibility to front those wages and discipline that factory manager.
In any other realm except "ESPORTS" this would be utterly ridiculous, but apparently the mindless following can see no wrong in those "helping esports".
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On November 15 2011 14:17 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:13 bibbaly wrote:On November 15 2011 14:08 Codeskye wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. horrible analogy. this isn't something small--someone got scammed by a huge amount of money and she can potentially be jailed and she will lose her job and her business would potentially crash as well. i'm pretty sure if you were in amanda's shoes right now, us posters here in team liquid would not hesitate to help you. You are only looking at his analogy and not the second part of his post, the precedent this is setting is terrible not only for the parties involved but for the community as a whole. Neither you nor Chill elaborate on why. The only thing we're left to assume is you're arguing the slippery slope. As though, any time someone ends up getting screwed the community would suddenly be "forced" to pay for it with charity streams. That doesn't make sense. Nor does it hold up when you look at recent examples. Did donating money to bring MKP to MLG lead to tons of drives to bring other players to MLG? No. Did donating money to help Day9 pay for college lead to tons of drives to pay off major expenses for other community pillars? No. There's no reason to expect that this will turn into a slippery slope. There's little precedent (especially in SC2) for volunteers to be scammed so severely. This isn't a few hundred dollars, it's over ten grand. That's a staggering amount of fraud and something that I personally would not be able to weather financially, nor would many of the readers here. If you're going to say it's a bad precedent, at least explain HOW you think it will lead to some grand slipper slope. Because what I see here is a very bad situation occurred, and the community stepped up to right a wrong. I don't see a more sinister plot unfolding.
you beat me to it. great post man.
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On November 15 2011 14:17 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:13 bibbaly wrote:On November 15 2011 14:08 Codeskye wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. horrible analogy. this isn't something small--someone got scammed by a huge amount of money and she can potentially be jailed and she will lose her job and her business would potentially crash as well. i'm pretty sure if you were in amanda's shoes right now, us posters here in team liquid would not hesitate to help you. You are only looking at his analogy and not the second part of his post, the precedent this is setting is terrible not only for the parties involved but for the community as a whole. Neither you nor Chill elaborate on why. The only thing we're left to assume is you're arguing the slippery slope. As though, any time someone ends up getting screwed the community would suddenly be "forced" to pay for it with charity streams. That doesn't make sense. Nor does it hold up when you look at recent examples. Did donating money to bring MKP to MLG lead to tons of drives to bring other players to MLG? No. Did donating money to help Day9 pay for college lead to tons of drives to pay off major expenses for other community pillars? No. There's no reason to expect that this will turn into a slippery slope. There's little precedent (especially in SC2) for volunteers to be scammed so severely. This isn't a few hundred dollars, it's over ten grand. That's a staggering amount of fraud and something that I personally would not be able to weather financially, nor would many of the readers here. If you're going to say it's a bad precedent, at least explain HOW you think it will lead to some grand slipper slope. Because what I see here is a very bad situation occurred, and the community stepped up to right a wrong. I don't see a more sinister plot unfolding.
THE PRECEDENT SHOULD BE SET THAT IF YOU SCAM YOU WILL BE PUNISHED TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW AND NOT LET OFF THE HOOK FORCING OTHERS TO DEAL WITH YOUR SHIT.
User was warned for this post
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Yesssss! I was looking for something like this all weekend 
I there a possibility of editing the OP so that we can know how much mulah has been accumulated?
For all people who are hating on this thread: People who donate do it out of good will. I'm certain that we are all aware that our sole source of information comes from the internet. So if we decide to donate, it is most probably not because we are conned by sweet talk. We are doing this because we love e-sports and because we want to help someone who is in need. We are doing this because we trust that IPL will put this money to good use. We have no concrete irrefutable proof they aren't lying (our info comes from the internet); we are operating solely based on our trust of IPL and the famous casters behind them. So please stop telling us we are making a dumb move.
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On November 15 2011 14:17 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 14:13 bibbaly wrote:On November 15 2011 14:08 Codeskye wrote:On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. horrible analogy. this isn't something small--someone got scammed by a huge amount of money and she can potentially be jailed and she will lose her job and her business would potentially crash as well. i'm pretty sure if you were in amanda's shoes right now, us posters here in team liquid would not hesitate to help you. You are only looking at his analogy and not the second part of his post, the precedent this is setting is terrible not only for the parties involved but for the community as a whole. Neither you nor Chill elaborate on why. The only thing we're left to assume is you're arguing the slippery slope. As though, any time someone ends up getting screwed the community would suddenly be "forced" to pay for it with charity streams. That doesn't make sense. Nor does it hold up when you look at recent examples. Did donating money to bring MKP to MLG lead to tons of drives to bring other players to MLG? No. Did donating money to help Day9 pay for college lead to tons of drives to pay off major expenses for other community pillars? No. There's no reason to expect that this will turn into a slippery slope. There's little precedent (especially in SC2) for volunteers to be scammed so severely. This isn't a few hundred dollars, it's over ten grand. That's a staggering amount of fraud and something that I personally would not be able to weather financially, nor would many of the readers here. If you're going to say it's a bad precedent, at least explain HOW you think it will lead to some grand slipper slope. Because what I see here is a very bad situation occurred, and the community stepped up to right a wrong. I don't see a more sinister plot unfolding.
Like I posted earlier, it may send the message that people can take bigger risks in terms of tournament sponsoring since they know the community will bail them out if something goes wrong.
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Anyway thanks again to everyone whos been helping out ....
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EPT
