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My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely.
No. Not everyone is a fucking saint.
Let's say I have $500 in my pocket. This $500 is spending money left over after bills and savings. I pass by charity for the homeless. I do not see what is fucking wrong if I were to just donate $100 instead of $500 so I have $400 to spend on stuff like games, fast food/fine dining, movies, or other types of luxuries.
I want to help people but I certainly do not spend 8 hours a day in work, 5 days a week just so I can give someone all my spare cash.
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United States169 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
Chill, if it was possible you were going to go to jail and lose your livelihood then absolutely, I'd be the first to donate. I am willing to bet the community would leap to your defense if life had the potential to go down in flames. This is Amanda's job, freedom, and potential future (credit risk, lack of employment possibilities due to these problems, etc) we're talking about.
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On November 15 2011 13:40 rijndael wrote:Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 13:34 17Sphynx17 wrote:Well in the philippines, as long as every paperwork is in order, it can be put to trial for failure to meet with obligation. Might have to start with arbitration first but there should be no stopping it from getting traction. The problem with how stuff is done here in the philippines is most avoid the paper trail to avoid paying taxes. Contracts are not notarized and just appear as a "formal" agreement between 2 parties. It is true that once signed, it should be honored, but if its not notarized, and not witnessed, then it should not be "legally" binding in certain cases. Trust is what most work on here in the philippines. While I believe SnixSniPe's family's experience shows a side of the how it can happen, it is possible to work harmoniously. But there really is a risk in it. A friend of mine once said, "if you plan on doing business, don't do it with friends or family as you run the risk of losing the relationship once money is involved." Which is for the most part true because agruements/disagreements will happen once money is involved as both have a vested interest. I still believe Gus just mismanaged everything and didn't account for the total cash that was/would be available to the PPSL Event and just ran with it. I still expect a statement from Team AZK regarding the matter as it is still them who is still involved and a party to the "organizing body" who has still not made any official statement. One post here said they would rather work on it on the sidelines and clear the mess up. If amanduh is the real Amanda then again, an official statement would be nice. And if she is in touch with any of the leaders of Team AZK then I hope she can tell them to release an official statement. They are still trying to dodge the issue, at least to me which is still wrong. There was also a blog from a JPL in techkitchen where claims were made http://techkitchen.ph/2011/11/the-fall-of-philippine-e-sports/So Team AZK needs to clear the mess up and confront the issue like the ones raised on the blog, if it is true or false. Just my 2 cents. The blog has disappeared apparently. What's alarming is the fact that according to the blog Gus and some members from AZK flew to Las Vegas to meet with the IPL guys, considering the finances for that, that would cost around $1000(?rough estimate?) round trip per person, not to add hotel accommodations and whatnot. Its just sad that IPL wasn't the only one with something to lose: ![[image loading]](http://technogra.ph/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ppsl-ipl4poster.jpg) That's about 10 other sponsors down there.
This is false. Gus and AZK were never flown to Las Vegas -- They were, however, at Atlantic City participating in IPL3: Origins. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying. All travel for IPL is booked through me.
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Okay as of the moment i am still part of team azk. I just happen to work in an agency. Everythings been done via phone calls emails text message skype. Each time a portion of the agreement has been brought up it came out upfront (like the first php 200,000) Legal documentations such as lawyer "validated" contracts werent part of the whole thing (i admit that end was wrong which i do take the blame for) but informally all agreements are done online / saved somehow. Point being alot of people were not in a contract. Lets say im not in a non diclosure contract so i can actually write everything down but i am not doing as it may very well just make situations even worse for everyone.
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On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
agree this is an odd thing to do.. still have not seen any posts with concrete details about Amanda or proof of the actual debt..
ie. actual ticket/hotel costs, travel company markup and expenses ect.
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On November 15 2011 14:00 amanduh wrote:
Okay as of the moment i am still part of team azk. I just happen to work in an agency. Everythings been done via phone calls emails text message skype. Each time a portion of the agreement has been brought up it came out upfront (like the first php 200,000) Legal documentations such as lawyer "validated" contracts werent part of the whole thing (i admit that end was wrong which i do take the blame for) but informally all agreements are done online / saved somehow. Point being alot of people were not in a contract. Lets say im not in a non diclosure contract so i can actually write everything down but i am not doing as it may very well just make situations even worse for everyone.
EDIT: dumb question
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On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
I think your analogy is horrifically weak. Unless you too have lost > $10,000 in "short changings". The response is proportional to the shock and scope of the crime. Would the community be expected to all chip in if some guy runs a tournament into the ground and ends up a few grand in debt as a result? No. But this is a case where well-intentioned people got completely taken advantage of for thousands of dollars. It's wholly different than your example of "paying bills".
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Donated. I will be watching as well.
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On November 15 2011 13:45 amanduh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:34 17Sphynx17 wrote:Well in the philippines, as long as every paperwork is in order, it can be put to trial for failure to meet with obligation. Might have to start with arbitration first but there should be no stopping it from getting traction. The problem with how stuff is done here in the philippines is most avoid the paper trail to avoid paying taxes. Contracts are not notarized and just appear as a "formal" agreement between 2 parties. It is true that once signed, it should be honored, but if its not notarized, and not witnessed, then it should not be "legally" binding in certain cases. Trust is what most work on here in the philippines. While I believe SnixSniPe's family's experience shows a side of the how it can happen, it is possible to work harmoniously. But there really is a risk in it. A friend of mine once said, "if you plan on doing business, don't do it with friends or family as you run the risk of losing the relationship once money is involved." Which is for the most part true because agruements/disagreements will happen once money is involved as both have a vested interest. I still believe Gus just mismanaged everything and didn't account for the total cash that was/would be available to the PPSL Event and just ran with it. I still expect a statement from Team AZK regarding the matter as it is still them who is still involved and a party to the "organizing body" who has still not made any official statement. One post here said they would rather work on it on the sidelines and clear the mess up. If amanduh is the real Amanda then again, an official statement would be nice. And if she is in touch with any of the leaders of Team AZK then I hope she can tell them to release an official statement. They are still trying to dodge the issue, at least to me which is still wrong. There was also a blog from a JPL in techkitchen where claims were made http://techkitchen.ph/2011/11/the-fall-of-philippine-e-sports/So Team AZK needs to clear the mess up and confront the issue like the ones raised on the blog, if it is true or false. Just my 2 cents. Hey yup.. Im the amanda referred to in the thread (i bravely say this as along with what everyones doing a lot of people flame me as well). I cannot represent azk as a whole. I myself have no statement from gus either. Wherever the initial funds went i have no concrete idea other than the php 215,000 that has been paid off officially from friday. As much as id like to clear up what i know from my end i again can only stand up for a small portion of Team AZK.
So you're a travel agent and a part of Team AZK? Have you previously been in charge of travel arrangements for team AZK?
And if you were owed $12,000 USD for the travel expenses and you were paid $215,000 PHP, which equals approximately $5,000 USD, then you are now $7,000 in the hole, which is the amount that IPL has already said it has allocated for you in the original post. That seems to equal your original $12,000 USD debt. What exactly is the purpose of this fundraiser if your expenses have already been covered when taking into consideration the $7,000 USD that IPL still owes? I'm not trying to harp on you, I'm just trying to get the facts straight, which seem to be in short supply.
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On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
I don't think you're facing jail time for helping to promote e-sports in a region with an underdeveloped scene because some guy screwed you over. IGN could have held this charity in support of everyone who got screwed over...but its mainly for Amanda, since she seems to be in the most dire situation.
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On November 15 2011 13:56 rengarr wrote:Show nested quote +My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely. No. Not everyone is a fucking saint. Let's say I have $500 in my pocket. This $500 is spending money left over after bills and savings. I pass by charity for the homeless. I do not see what is fucking wrong if I were to just donate $100 instead of $500 so I have $400 to spend on stuff like games, fast food/fine dining, movies, or other types of luxuries. I want to help people but I certainly do not spend 8 hours a day in work, 5 days a week just so I can give someone all my spare cash.
Of course. You chose to donate 1/5 of what you had in your pocket to charity. That's extremely generous actually, and reflects on your character.
If IGN were like you, and they donated 1/5 of what was in their pocket (net profit for 2011) it would be $2,000,000 dollars.
But Amanda didn't need $2,000,000 dollars. She needed $7,000 more, or 0.0007% of what was in IGN's pocket. And instead of giving it to her, they chose to ask you to cough it up instead. 
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Basically im the one everyones helping out yes.
Thanks to everyone whos been kind enough in doing so
Documentation of what has happened have been forwarded to IGN already. i dont think theyd just put up something if things were not well enough to prove a situation. From the gunRun post last wednesday when i was with clive at the hotel, none of us honestly thought this is what would happen.
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On November 15 2011 14:00 Rocor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. agree this is an odd thing to do.. still have not seen any posts with concrete details about Amanda or proof of the actual debt.. ie. actual ticket/hotel costs, travel company markup and expenses ect.
Even if you don't trust Amanda because you don't know her, TheGunRun personally has vouched for the veracity of her claims. Gunrun has much greater history with the scene through his work with GLHF.tv and Twitch.tv. Undoubtedly IGN has not simply blindly accepted her claims either and has investigated before organizing this donation drive. I can't speak for them 100%, but it would be incredibly poor judgement on their behalf if they just raised >$12,000 dollars to throw at another scam. I'd imagine they did their homework if for no other reason than to keep their books in order.
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On November 15 2011 14:02 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:45 amanduh wrote:On November 15 2011 13:34 17Sphynx17 wrote:Well in the philippines, as long as every paperwork is in order, it can be put to trial for failure to meet with obligation. Might have to start with arbitration first but there should be no stopping it from getting traction. The problem with how stuff is done here in the philippines is most avoid the paper trail to avoid paying taxes. Contracts are not notarized and just appear as a "formal" agreement between 2 parties. It is true that once signed, it should be honored, but if its not notarized, and not witnessed, then it should not be "legally" binding in certain cases. Trust is what most work on here in the philippines. While I believe SnixSniPe's family's experience shows a side of the how it can happen, it is possible to work harmoniously. But there really is a risk in it. A friend of mine once said, "if you plan on doing business, don't do it with friends or family as you run the risk of losing the relationship once money is involved." Which is for the most part true because agruements/disagreements will happen once money is involved as both have a vested interest. I still believe Gus just mismanaged everything and didn't account for the total cash that was/would be available to the PPSL Event and just ran with it. I still expect a statement from Team AZK regarding the matter as it is still them who is still involved and a party to the "organizing body" who has still not made any official statement. One post here said they would rather work on it on the sidelines and clear the mess up. If amanduh is the real Amanda then again, an official statement would be nice. And if she is in touch with any of the leaders of Team AZK then I hope she can tell them to release an official statement. They are still trying to dodge the issue, at least to me which is still wrong. There was also a blog from a JPL in techkitchen where claims were made http://techkitchen.ph/2011/11/the-fall-of-philippine-e-sports/So Team AZK needs to clear the mess up and confront the issue like the ones raised on the blog, if it is true or false. Just my 2 cents. Hey yup.. Im the amanda referred to in the thread (i bravely say this as along with what everyones doing a lot of people flame me as well). I cannot represent azk as a whole. I myself have no statement from gus either. Wherever the initial funds went i have no concrete idea other than the php 215,000 that has been paid off officially from friday. As much as id like to clear up what i know from my end i again can only stand up for a small portion of Team AZK. So you're a travel agent and a part of Team AZK? Have you previously been in charge of travel arrangements for team AZK? And if you were owed $12,000 USD for the travel expenses and you were paid $215,000 PHP, which equals approximately $5,000, then you are now $7,000 in the hole, which is the amount that IPL has already said it has allocated for you in the original post. That seems to equal your original $12,000 USD debt. What exactly is the purpose of this fundraiser if your expenses have already been covered when taking into consideration the $7,000 IPL still owes? I'm not trying to harp on you, I'm just trying to get the facts straight, which seem to be in short supply.
I'd like to jump in with a quote from another thread:
This is a message from Amanda who is possibly facing jail if this is not resolved imminently:
I issued a total of php 715,000 worth of tickets. 200,000 has been paid, so the outstanding debt is close to php 516,000. Told gunrun already and like im really hoping people in the community can help as being jailed is a possibility for me. I am connected to a travel agency that is why.
200k was paid, 516k was remaining. 516k = 12kUSD
On November 15 2011 14:04 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:56 rengarr wrote:My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely. No. Not everyone is a fucking saint. Let's say I have $500 in my pocket. This $500 is spending money left over after bills and savings. I pass by charity for the homeless. I do not see what is fucking wrong if I were to just donate $100 instead of $500 so I have $400 to spend on stuff like games, fast food/fine dining, movies, or other types of luxuries. I want to help people but I certainly do not spend 8 hours a day in work, 5 days a week just so I can give someone all my spare cash. Of course. You chose to donate 1/5 of what you had in your pocket to charity. That's extremely generous actually, and reflects on your character. If IGN were like you, and they donated 1/5 of what was in their pocket (net profit for 2011) it would be $2,000,000 dollars. But Amanda didn't need $2,000,000 dollars. She needed $7,000 more, or 0.0007% of what was in IGN's pocket. And instead of giving it to her, they chose to ask you to cough it up instead.
For the third time, what is IPL's bank right now. What's 20% of their available bank to spend right now?
IGN does not have the same responsibilities as IPL - they give IPL funding, and that funding I would imagine has already been assigned for 2012.
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On November 15 2011 14:02 Devolved wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:45 amanduh wrote:On November 15 2011 13:34 17Sphynx17 wrote:Well in the philippines, as long as every paperwork is in order, it can be put to trial for failure to meet with obligation. Might have to start with arbitration first but there should be no stopping it from getting traction. The problem with how stuff is done here in the philippines is most avoid the paper trail to avoid paying taxes. Contracts are not notarized and just appear as a "formal" agreement between 2 parties. It is true that once signed, it should be honored, but if its not notarized, and not witnessed, then it should not be "legally" binding in certain cases. Trust is what most work on here in the philippines. While I believe SnixSniPe's family's experience shows a side of the how it can happen, it is possible to work harmoniously. But there really is a risk in it. A friend of mine once said, "if you plan on doing business, don't do it with friends or family as you run the risk of losing the relationship once money is involved." Which is for the most part true because agruements/disagreements will happen once money is involved as both have a vested interest. I still believe Gus just mismanaged everything and didn't account for the total cash that was/would be available to the PPSL Event and just ran with it. I still expect a statement from Team AZK regarding the matter as it is still them who is still involved and a party to the "organizing body" who has still not made any official statement. One post here said they would rather work on it on the sidelines and clear the mess up. If amanduh is the real Amanda then again, an official statement would be nice. And if she is in touch with any of the leaders of Team AZK then I hope she can tell them to release an official statement. They are still trying to dodge the issue, at least to me which is still wrong. There was also a blog from a JPL in techkitchen where claims were made http://techkitchen.ph/2011/11/the-fall-of-philippine-e-sports/So Team AZK needs to clear the mess up and confront the issue like the ones raised on the blog, if it is true or false. Just my 2 cents. Hey yup.. Im the amanda referred to in the thread (i bravely say this as along with what everyones doing a lot of people flame me as well). I cannot represent azk as a whole. I myself have no statement from gus either. Wherever the initial funds went i have no concrete idea other than the php 215,000 that has been paid off officially from friday. As much as id like to clear up what i know from my end i again can only stand up for a small portion of Team AZK. So you're a travel agent and a part of Team AZK? Have you previously been in charge of travel arrangements for team AZK? And if you were owed $12,000 USD for the travel expenses and you were paid $215,000 PHP, which equals approximately $5,000, then you are now $7,000 in the hole, which is the amount that IPL has already said it has allocated for you in the original post. That seems to equal your original $12,000 USD debt. What exactly is the purpose of this fundraiser if your expenses have already been covered when taking into consideration the $7,000 IPL still owes? I'm not trying to harp on you, I'm just trying to get the facts straight, which seem to be in short supply.
I'm wondering this as well...
Seems she is fine with collecting the community's money, but refuses to release any actual details.. :|
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Total original bill for everyone to come here : php 715,878. So less $215 thats about php 501,000 still.
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On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
Do you disagree on principle or are you worried about setting a precendent proper? I mean, do you think people will expect to get reimbursed if they get scammed while being involved in ESPORTS? And maybe be less careful than they should because of that?
Because TBH I don't think that's likely. I don't think people will risk their business thinking if things go wrong they probably get bailed out (because it has happened once before).
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 14:00 AjAyIGN wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:40 rijndael wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 13:34 17Sphynx17 wrote:Well in the philippines, as long as every paperwork is in order, it can be put to trial for failure to meet with obligation. Might have to start with arbitration first but there should be no stopping it from getting traction. The problem with how stuff is done here in the philippines is most avoid the paper trail to avoid paying taxes. Contracts are not notarized and just appear as a "formal" agreement between 2 parties. It is true that once signed, it should be honored, but if its not notarized, and not witnessed, then it should not be "legally" binding in certain cases. Trust is what most work on here in the philippines. While I believe SnixSniPe's family's experience shows a side of the how it can happen, it is possible to work harmoniously. But there really is a risk in it. A friend of mine once said, "if you plan on doing business, don't do it with friends or family as you run the risk of losing the relationship once money is involved." Which is for the most part true because agruements/disagreements will happen once money is involved as both have a vested interest. I still believe Gus just mismanaged everything and didn't account for the total cash that was/would be available to the PPSL Event and just ran with it. I still expect a statement from Team AZK regarding the matter as it is still them who is still involved and a party to the "organizing body" who has still not made any official statement. One post here said they would rather work on it on the sidelines and clear the mess up. If amanduh is the real Amanda then again, an official statement would be nice. And if she is in touch with any of the leaders of Team AZK then I hope she can tell them to release an official statement. They are still trying to dodge the issue, at least to me which is still wrong. There was also a blog from a JPL in techkitchen where claims were made http://techkitchen.ph/2011/11/the-fall-of-philippine-e-sports/So Team AZK needs to clear the mess up and confront the issue like the ones raised on the blog, if it is true or false. Just my 2 cents. The blog has disappeared apparently. What's alarming is the fact that according to the blog Gus and some members from AZK flew to Las Vegas to meet with the IPL guys, considering the finances for that, that would cost around $1000(?rough estimate?) round trip per person, not to add hotel accommodations and whatnot. Its just sad that IPL wasn't the only one with something to lose: That's about 10 other sponsors down there. This is false. Gus and AZK were never flown to Las Vegas -- They were, however, at Atlantic City participating in IPL3: Origins. Anyone telling you otherwise is lying. All travel for IPL is booked through me.
From what I got from the blog previously posted at tech kitchen (See a copy on previous page I posted) it was before IPL was to be a sponsor for PPSL. Therefore, Gus and some of AZK guys went to IPL3 and met with David Ting of IGN and that's where the ball rolled that it became a IPL Qualifier which was not made known to the original set of sponsors until almost the last minute.
It was never proven that the post from the blog was true, partially true or completely false. So in the part of IGN, I would gather you guys didn't fly them to IPL3 (at least that much). That the claim that they could have used money for PPSL to get to IPL3 is plausible but may not be completely true. Again, no AZK statement, no confirmation.
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If you guys want your money to go to a reputable charity just go to The Red Cross or Doctors without Borders, this isn't a charity, this is pan-handling and the thread title should reflect as such.
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EPT
