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On November 15 2011 13:39 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:29 Insurrectionist wrote:On November 15 2011 13:18 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:00 Nighthawks28 wrote:On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves (yes, IGN is capable), then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you. This is ridiculous. IPL still has budgets from the bigger corporate people of IGN. IPL cannot simply give out free money. They already sponsored the event with $14,000. And you want them to give out free money? LOL You might as well ask why other large organizations aren't just giving out free money to the millions of people that are in need. IGN is just being nice by setting up a charity event. You don't have to donate. Free money? That's what IGN is asking for from the community. Yet they have tons of money and the ability to donate. Some companies do donate lots of money to charity - though they are few are far between. It comes down to the individuals within the company - how strong are their convictions? How important is the charity in their opinion? Never in my life have I seen or worked for a company that has had the means to support a charity, but chooses to beg other people to support it instead.It's ridiculous to argue on behalf of wealthy organization or person, trying to make an excuse for said person/organization as to why they should not share, and why others (people who may be less fortunate but more generous), should! As far as I know from following the whole debacle, IPL had never interacted with Amanda prior to this issue. No one working for the IPL had ever interacted with her. Before this charity event was organized, pretty much no one were connecting Amanda's problems and the IPL's sponsorship in any way. So why do they suddenly have a moral obligation to do anything now? If they hadn't started this thread, no one would be criticizing the IPL for anything, and focused their anger at Gus. In fact, they'd probably have been praised for allocating the remaining money to Amanda instead of spreading it out across all the different creditors who remain unpaid. But because they decided to try and get her sufficient money to stay out of jail by using their brand name, stream channel, and stream revenue tonight, they get criticized for not donating everything owed? The IPL has a responsibility to maximize income to their mother-company IGN, and even if the people running the IPL would want to donate all the money, it's unlikely they'd be able to. IGN is under no obligation to donate anything. However, they chose to take up this cause, which shows admirable moral quality. The issue I have is that the amount of money their asking for is so miniscule for them. If this were a significant amount of money relative to their profit margin alone, I wouldn't be picking a bone with them. Having worked in a corporate environment for many years, and seeing the thought-processes of many decision makers inside these companies, it irks me to no end when I see this kind of stingy charity work. Just pay it. Don't ask others to pay help or "alleviate" the incredible "burden" of a few thousand bucks. Just pay it.
Again, you must have some serious info on IPL's bank statements. Care to share?
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What financial responsbilities? They were supposed to pay $7,000. Which they are.
They're not supposed to foot the remaining $16K balance. What they're doing here is spearheading a charity to do so, since the people who are supposed to pay it are obviously scumbags.
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Calgary25974 Posts
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
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To all those bitching about IGN:
Yes, this is a fantastic PR move by them. Very smart-- gaining community support, touching hearts, yada yada.
Even if they have other motives, the fact is that, they're helping this girl. They had no prior obligation to pay for her out of their pockets.
What they're going is great for e-sports. So just shut up and appreciate the fact that if not for IGN, this Amanda girl would get screwed over.
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@ SCST: It mind boggles me that you claim to have worked in a corporate environment for many years and still hold your incredibly naive view
You have to be trolling, you simply have to be. Only explanation
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On November 15 2011 13:33 Surriel wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:18 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:00 Nighthawks28 wrote:On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves (yes, IGN is capable), then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you. This is ridiculous. IPL still has budgets from the bigger corporate people of IGN. IPL cannot simply give out free money. They already sponsored the event with $14,000. And you want them to give out free money? LOL You might as well ask why other large organizations aren't just giving out free money to the millions of people that are in need. IGN is just being nice by setting up a charity event. You don't have to donate. Free money? That's what IGN is asking for from the community. Yet they have tons of money and the ability to donate. Some companies do donate lots of money to charity - though they are few are far between. It comes down to the individuals within the company - how strong are their convictions? How important is the charity in their opinion? Never in my life have I seen or worked for a company that has had the means to support a charity, but chooses to beg other people to support it instead.It's ridiculous to argue on behalf of wealthy organization or person, trying to make an excuse for said person/organization as to why they should not share, and why others (people who may be less fortunate but more generous), should! You seem to be under the impression that the whole IGN is behind this donation drive, while in fact it is the eSports division of IGN. I was under the impression from the IPL3 interview with their headhoncho that he had the initiative to start the eSports division on his own, and was trying to prove to his boss that it can be successful. After IPL1 and 2 with minimum funding, he finally succeeded in getting them to fund a bigger event in IPL3. Point is, IGN is a business and they are not going to just be handing out money just for the fun of it. Now imagine you are in the eSports division, and this debacle happened. You want to pay for Amanda debt but all you have is the 7000$ you didnt give to PPSL. What do you do? Do you go to corporate and ask your boss, hey this woman I know is being scammed and I feel it is our duty to fork out the rest of the money to pay for her expenses, even though its really not our fault. Your boss is going to laugh at your face. Of course you can pay the rest of the money using your own division budget but that would cut into future tournament expenses and prize pools. So what do you do? You hold a fundraising. Seems like the appropriate reaction to me.
Good point. Good logic. My issue at hand is corporations/people not following through with their convictions. If one takes a moral stance and has the means to contribute, do so completely. If one takes a moral stance and does not have the means to contribute or can only contribute partially, I feel that it's ok to ask for help. How do we know for certain that this is the case with IGN, however?
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On November 15 2011 13:29 SimDawg wrote:
The simple fact is that I don't know how Amanda gets by in life, let alone runs a business. It's incredibly naive to go on the hook for that much money without something in writing.
IPL really needs to make things right. Ting screwed up big time with this decision. IGN should be looking at his job, too. I hope people are looking at how colossally screwed up it is that a bunch of people made unprofessional decisions to reach this point.
And now they're asking for the community to bail them out. I love being nice, I might even donate a buck or two because of how fucked up this whole thing is, but let's make sure people get their heads on straight in the future.
Oh, regarding this.
I'd just like to note, not being rude or anything, but with Amanda, since it's an agency, she owns it right? It was still a bit confusing but, when we mentioned the total 715k, was that with agency profit or without?
I'm saying, if she just needs help to pay the actual tickets, it should just be for the tickets, not the cost the agency was selling them to AZK or Gus.
It's still help and the help that she needs. If there were markups, I would presume, her agency would waive it as the risk was taken on by them unprofessionally and that is on them, not on anyone else.
I'm speaking from a business stand point. Others have stated how could a business run like that with no guarantee or way for them to go after AZK or Gus for the plane fare and just shoulder it on their own. What legitimate business would do that and I agree with them.
So I know Amada is here and would just like to ask if the 12k usd is simply the tickets - less the agency's profit (cause the hotels are an entirely different account) or is it 12k usd with the agency's profit.
Why do I want to ask her that? Well, the excess is made to help the others who weren't paid their respective fees and had to pay out of pocket.
Just saying.
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i dont get some of the negativity, if you dont wanna donate than you dont and if you watch the stream its only IGN and after some time twitch tv loosing money from adds revenue, the end user is not loosing anything.
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On November 15 2011 13:41 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:39 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:29 Insurrectionist wrote:On November 15 2011 13:18 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:00 Nighthawks28 wrote:On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves (yes, IGN is capable), then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you. This is ridiculous. IPL still has budgets from the bigger corporate people of IGN. IPL cannot simply give out free money. They already sponsored the event with $14,000. And you want them to give out free money? LOL You might as well ask why other large organizations aren't just giving out free money to the millions of people that are in need. IGN is just being nice by setting up a charity event. You don't have to donate. Free money? That's what IGN is asking for from the community. Yet they have tons of money and the ability to donate. Some companies do donate lots of money to charity - though they are few are far between. It comes down to the individuals within the company - how strong are their convictions? How important is the charity in their opinion? Never in my life have I seen or worked for a company that has had the means to support a charity, but chooses to beg other people to support it instead.It's ridiculous to argue on behalf of wealthy organization or person, trying to make an excuse for said person/organization as to why they should not share, and why others (people who may be less fortunate but more generous), should! As far as I know from following the whole debacle, IPL had never interacted with Amanda prior to this issue. No one working for the IPL had ever interacted with her. Before this charity event was organized, pretty much no one were connecting Amanda's problems and the IPL's sponsorship in any way. So why do they suddenly have a moral obligation to do anything now? If they hadn't started this thread, no one would be criticizing the IPL for anything, and focused their anger at Gus. In fact, they'd probably have been praised for allocating the remaining money to Amanda instead of spreading it out across all the different creditors who remain unpaid. But because they decided to try and get her sufficient money to stay out of jail by using their brand name, stream channel, and stream revenue tonight, they get criticized for not donating everything owed? The IPL has a responsibility to maximize income to their mother-company IGN, and even if the people running the IPL would want to donate all the money, it's unlikely they'd be able to. IGN is under no obligation to donate anything. However, they chose to take up this cause, which shows admirable moral quality. The issue I have is that the amount of money their asking for is so miniscule for them. If this were a significant amount of money relative to their profit margin alone, I wouldn't be picking a bone with them. Having worked in a corporate environment for many years, and seeing the thought-processes of many decision makers inside these companies, it irks me to no end when I see this kind of stingy charity work. Just pay it. Don't ask others to pay help or "alleviate" the incredible "burden" of a few thousand bucks. Just pay it. Again, you must have some serious info on IPL's bank statements. Care to share?
IGN's operating income and profit margin is public knowledge.
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On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
Agreed. We can only hope that the message people will take from this is that sponsors should be more careful with whom they deal with, and not be taking big risks with the knowledge that the community will be there to bail them out.
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On November 15 2011 13:44 SCST wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:41 JinDesu wrote:On November 15 2011 13:39 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:29 Insurrectionist wrote:On November 15 2011 13:18 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 13:00 Nighthawks28 wrote:On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves (yes, IGN is capable), then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you. This is ridiculous. IPL still has budgets from the bigger corporate people of IGN. IPL cannot simply give out free money. They already sponsored the event with $14,000. And you want them to give out free money? LOL You might as well ask why other large organizations aren't just giving out free money to the millions of people that are in need. IGN is just being nice by setting up a charity event. You don't have to donate. Free money? That's what IGN is asking for from the community. Yet they have tons of money and the ability to donate. Some companies do donate lots of money to charity - though they are few are far between. It comes down to the individuals within the company - how strong are their convictions? How important is the charity in their opinion? Never in my life have I seen or worked for a company that has had the means to support a charity, but chooses to beg other people to support it instead.It's ridiculous to argue on behalf of wealthy organization or person, trying to make an excuse for said person/organization as to why they should not share, and why others (people who may be less fortunate but more generous), should! As far as I know from following the whole debacle, IPL had never interacted with Amanda prior to this issue. No one working for the IPL had ever interacted with her. Before this charity event was organized, pretty much no one were connecting Amanda's problems and the IPL's sponsorship in any way. So why do they suddenly have a moral obligation to do anything now? If they hadn't started this thread, no one would be criticizing the IPL for anything, and focused their anger at Gus. In fact, they'd probably have been praised for allocating the remaining money to Amanda instead of spreading it out across all the different creditors who remain unpaid. But because they decided to try and get her sufficient money to stay out of jail by using their brand name, stream channel, and stream revenue tonight, they get criticized for not donating everything owed? The IPL has a responsibility to maximize income to their mother-company IGN, and even if the people running the IPL would want to donate all the money, it's unlikely they'd be able to. IGN is under no obligation to donate anything. However, they chose to take up this cause, which shows admirable moral quality. The issue I have is that the amount of money their asking for is so miniscule for them. If this were a significant amount of money relative to their profit margin alone, I wouldn't be picking a bone with them. Having worked in a corporate environment for many years, and seeing the thought-processes of many decision makers inside these companies, it irks me to no end when I see this kind of stingy charity work. Just pay it. Don't ask others to pay help or "alleviate" the incredible "burden" of a few thousand bucks. Just pay it. Again, you must have some serious info on IPL's bank statements. Care to share? IGN's operating income and profit margin is public knowledge.
Good. Now tell us what is IPL's funding from IGN.
I didn't ask what IGN makes, I asked what IPL has.
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On November 15 2011 13:31 midgettoes wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:28 SCST wrote:On November 15 2011 12:53 dAPhREAk wrote:On November 15 2011 12:50 SCST wrote:
Folks I have to agree with some of the people questioning IGN here. I am a fan of IGN, and I know that IGN has a LOT of money. So can someone from IGN please explain why this large corporation cannot help Amanda out directly instead of begging the fans for donations?
Would be nice to see more than a handful of U.S. companies open their wallets for charity once in a while. Especially when said company is directly related to the charity "issue" or "reason". Though as someone who previously worked in corporate America (the pinnacle of selfish capitalism), I've learned not to expect much.
There is no debate from me that Amanda needs help. I do debate, however, the selfish path that this is heading down. If IGN wants to "make things right", and is capable of doing so themselves, then do it. Don't ask others to do it for you. 1. IGN is not required to do anything. It fulfilled its obligation of paying its $14,000. 2. IGN uses its own resources (stream and casters) to create a charity event for amanda. no requirement they do so. Yep, sounds like greedy capitalism to me. Stop making demands on companies that you have no right asking for. 1. It's not about obligation, it's about the fact that IGN is clearly making a moral stand by driving the charity, but is caught red-handed by not just taking care of the problem themselves when they do have the means to do it. 2. IGN is uses their resources to help Amanda "partially", rather than just taking care of the problem which they could. I find the psychology being used here fascinating. Not only does IGN win community support by distancing themselves from the problems at the event, they appear to be the "good" guy even though they are selfishly asking the community to cough up (what is to IGN) the equivalent of a drop-in-the-bucket of profits. They could pay the whole thing, they chose not to. My argument is that simple. The top 1% could solve world hunger, they choose not to. Problem argument? They can do it, they have no obligation to. If GSL failed you wouldn't see LG/GSkill covering the costs, since they would have provided the sponsorship money and that's all they need to do. If someone in the organisation feels bad and gets company approval to run this charity they shouldn't get criticised, or additional funding. IGN is doing a good thing, beyond their obligations.
The top 1% didn't choose to take a moral stance on the issue, and ask others to contribute on their behalf. That's the issue in this argument. Corporations are full of people who make decisions. An individual somewhere in IGN made the decision to not fully support the charity. Whether that was the CEO or CFO of IGN not backing up IPL, the director of IPL itself or some balding accountant somewhere that has influence on these types of things. Point is: IGN makes tons and tons of money relative to the amount needed for charity. There was no need to ask for help from anyone.
Edit: And If I were you, I wouldn't insinuate that it's "OK" for the top 1% to let people starve to death when they could help. What kind of a person defends that ideology?
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On November 15 2011 13:34 17Sphynx17 wrote:Well in the philippines, as long as every paperwork is in order, it can be put to trial for failure to meet with obligation. Might have to start with arbitration first but there should be no stopping it from getting traction. The problem with how stuff is done here in the philippines is most avoid the paper trail to avoid paying taxes. Contracts are not notarized and just appear as a "formal" agreement between 2 parties. It is true that once signed, it should be honored, but if its not notarized, and not witnessed, then it should not be "legally" binding in certain cases. Trust is what most work on here in the philippines. While I believe SnixSniPe's family's experience shows a side of the how it can happen, it is possible to work harmoniously. But there really is a risk in it. A friend of mine once said, "if you plan on doing business, don't do it with friends or family as you run the risk of losing the relationship once money is involved." Which is for the most part true because agruements/disagreements will happen once money is involved as both have a vested interest. I still believe Gus just mismanaged everything and didn't account for the total cash that was/would be available to the PPSL Event and just ran with it. I still expect a statement from Team AZK regarding the matter as it is still them who is still involved and a party to the "organizing body" who has still not made any official statement. One post here said they would rather work on it on the sidelines and clear the mess up. If amanduh is the real Amanda then again, an official statement would be nice. And if she is in touch with any of the leaders of Team AZK then I hope she can tell them to release an official statement. They are still trying to dodge the issue, at least to me which is still wrong. There was also a blog from a JPL in techkitchen where claims were made http://techkitchen.ph/2011/11/the-fall-of-philippine-e-sports/So Team AZK needs to clear the mess up and confront the issue like the ones raised on the blog, if it is true or false. Just my 2 cents.
Hey yup.. Im the amanda referred to in the thread (i bravely say this as along with what everyones doing a lot of people flame me as well). I cannot represent azk as a whole. I myself have no statement from gus either. Wherever the initial funds went i have no concrete idea other than the php 215,000 that has been paid off officially from friday. As much as id like to clear up what i know from my end i again can only stand up for a small portion of Team AZK.
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On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with.
As long as you say that you were scammed I would throw all of my money at you, for I am a sucker.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:46 bibbaly wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:41 Chill wrote:
Can you pay some of my bills too from when I got short changed? I appreciate the cause, but this is setting a very strange precedent that I can't agree with. As long as you say that you were scammed I would throw all of my money at you, for I am a sucker.
Ditto, especially if you are a girl :D
(man this thread is so serious)
Edit: So serious that I wouldn't be surprised if I get flamed for sexism. :o
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Can't donate any money atm but will be tuning in all night <3
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On November 15 2011 13:45 amanduh wrote:
Hey yup.. Im the amanda referred to in the thread (i bravely say this as along with what everyones doing a lot of people flame me as well). I cannot represent azk as a whole. I myself have no statement from gus either. Wherever the initial funds went i have no concrete idea other than the php 215,000 that has been paid off officially from friday. As much as id like to clear up what i know from my end i again can only stand up for a small portion of Team AZK.
Well seeing as there's a lot of things people do want to know, i don't suppose it would be too much trouble to do a mini AMA on here or something, to get your side of the story. I think the most urgent questions we wanna ask is:
1. Are you officially part of team AZK?
2. Was there a contract between you and gus when this deal happened?
Again, this is coming from your side, so it shouldn't be an official statement per se.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 13:45 amanduh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2011 13:34 17Sphynx17 wrote:Well in the philippines, as long as every paperwork is in order, it can be put to trial for failure to meet with obligation. Might have to start with arbitration first but there should be no stopping it from getting traction. The problem with how stuff is done here in the philippines is most avoid the paper trail to avoid paying taxes. Contracts are not notarized and just appear as a "formal" agreement between 2 parties. It is true that once signed, it should be honored, but if its not notarized, and not witnessed, then it should not be "legally" binding in certain cases. Trust is what most work on here in the philippines. While I believe SnixSniPe's family's experience shows a side of the how it can happen, it is possible to work harmoniously. But there really is a risk in it. A friend of mine once said, "if you plan on doing business, don't do it with friends or family as you run the risk of losing the relationship once money is involved." Which is for the most part true because agruements/disagreements will happen once money is involved as both have a vested interest. I still believe Gus just mismanaged everything and didn't account for the total cash that was/would be available to the PPSL Event and just ran with it. I still expect a statement from Team AZK regarding the matter as it is still them who is still involved and a party to the "organizing body" who has still not made any official statement. One post here said they would rather work on it on the sidelines and clear the mess up. If amanduh is the real Amanda then again, an official statement would be nice. And if she is in touch with any of the leaders of Team AZK then I hope she can tell them to release an official statement. They are still trying to dodge the issue, at least to me which is still wrong. There was also a blog from a JPL in techkitchen where claims were made http://techkitchen.ph/2011/11/the-fall-of-philippine-e-sports/So Team AZK needs to clear the mess up and confront the issue like the ones raised on the blog, if it is true or false. Just my 2 cents. Hey yup.. Im the amanda referred to in the thread (i bravely say this as along with what everyones doing a lot of people flame me as well). I cannot represent azk as a whole. I myself have no statement from gus either. Wherever the initial funds went i have no concrete idea other than the php 215,000 that has been paid off officially from friday. As much as id like to clear up what i know from my end i again can only stand up for a small portion of Team AZK.
IC. For the record Amanda, were you officially a member of Team AZK? Some statements in various threads say you were just an agency, but some state that you were a member of Team AZK. Care to clarify? Thanks.
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On November 15 2011 07:45 iky43210 wrote:
who is Amanda, and why did she sign the bills instead of gus?
So, you just didn't read the OP at all...
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 13:40 rijndael wrote:Show nested quote ++ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2011 13:34 17Sphynx17 wrote:Well in the philippines, as long as every paperwork is in order, it can be put to trial for failure to meet with obligation. Might have to start with arbitration first but there should be no stopping it from getting traction. The problem with how stuff is done here in the philippines is most avoid the paper trail to avoid paying taxes. Contracts are not notarized and just appear as a "formal" agreement between 2 parties. It is true that once signed, it should be honored, but if its not notarized, and not witnessed, then it should not be "legally" binding in certain cases. Trust is what most work on here in the philippines. While I believe SnixSniPe's family's experience shows a side of the how it can happen, it is possible to work harmoniously. But there really is a risk in it. A friend of mine once said, "if you plan on doing business, don't do it with friends or family as you run the risk of losing the relationship once money is involved." Which is for the most part true because agruements/disagreements will happen once money is involved as both have a vested interest. I still believe Gus just mismanaged everything and didn't account for the total cash that was/would be available to the PPSL Event and just ran with it. I still expect a statement from Team AZK regarding the matter as it is still them who is still involved and a party to the "organizing body" who has still not made any official statement. One post here said they would rather work on it on the sidelines and clear the mess up. If amanduh is the real Amanda then again, an official statement would be nice. And if she is in touch with any of the leaders of Team AZK then I hope she can tell them to release an official statement. They are still trying to dodge the issue, at least to me which is still wrong. There was also a blog from a JPL in techkitchen where claims were made http://techkitchen.ph/2011/11/the-fall-of-philippine-e-sports/So Team AZK needs to clear the mess up and confront the issue like the ones raised on the blog, if it is true or false. Just my 2 cents. The blog has disappeared apparently. What's alarming is the fact that according to the blog Gus and some members from AZK flew to Las Vegas to meet with the IPL guys, considering the finances for that, that would cost around $1000(?rough estimate?) round trip per person, not to add hotel accommodations and whatnot. Its just sad that IPL wasn't the only one with something to lose: ![[image loading]](http://technogra.ph/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/ppsl-ipl4poster.jpg) That's about 10 other sponsors down there.
Didn't know the blog was taken down, luckily it was copied by one poster in one thread.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283641¤tpage=53
+ Show Spoiler +PPSL And The Fall Of Philippine E-Sports
This story is about how one man brought shame to the Philippine gaming community in one single blow. The events are stated in this blog are all factual telling the tales in which how the recently concluded IGSL Pacific Qualifiers came to be and how this event brought down the country’s reputation for gaming. We will not name any names of the suppliers and participants of this event, except for the one who orchastrated it all.
This started on May of 2011, when a gamer named TeamAZM WitchDoc or also known as Augustus “Gus” Ledesma approached several IT brands with a dream of uplifting the Philippine gaming community and truly placing the country in the radar of world gaming championships. It sounded like a great plan since no single gaming event could match the scale of the locally discontinued World Cyber Gaming Tournaments normally held by TV giant, Samsung. Most local Philippine events are held by PC stores, or component brands and lacked the class or organization to truly represent the country’s best gamers. The vision that this man had convinced several IT component manufacturers to join in for the event, which was aptly named Philippine Pro Starcraft League.
After several meetings, cost estimates and presentations, by June the event support for the PPSL was finally approved. The tournament was supposed to be held on the first week of October. Ledesma promised ad placements, event marketing, online and offline announcements to promote the event. (Take note that the tournament was still called PPSL and not IGSL Pacific Qualifiers. By this time, IGSL didn’t get involved yet in the event.) Two months came to pass, no one heard from Ledesma. By August, the only thing that the sponsors saw was the poster and jacket design. No word yet on how the event will happen, or what was needed for it. The sponsors were expecting the poster to be out in the gaming community and the IT industry by this time. It was imperative that the brands supporting the event would be broadcasted properly. Upon closer inspection, the posters were never printed, nor distributed to the IT industry as promised by Ledesma.
In one of the last email conversations that the sponsors had with Ledesma, his team mentioned “PPSL will change the way how the world will view Philippine gaming”. By the end of August, nothing turly substantial or major was presented. This earned the distrust of the sponsors, but because of their commitment to the event still decided to push thru with it. A marketing plan came from Ledesma and his marketing manager outlinining the following:
Hype video for the PPSL’s sponsor for viral marketing. Flyers to be handed out in strategic locations around Metro Manila. PPSL Will be giving out free goodies through their online promotions in Facebook. Updating all our partner websites with new details concerning the PPSL
None of the promised marketing plans were followed except for a few exposures from HWM and Philippine Star. This wasn’t the fault of Ledesma’s PR agency, but Ledesma who took so long to approve the PR that was needed by the event. Admists the shadiness of the organizer’s character, the partners already signed the contract on the event, so there was no backing out. It was reported that Ledesma asked for a substantial amount of money to make the event happen (event cost and the prize money), in which the combined effort of the partners was easily attainable. This is where things started to slope down. Eventhough that the partners paid already half for the event, Ledesma kept hammering the sponsors for more money. He asked an additional 16 computer units for which he didn’t explain why he needed more (the reality will be revealed later on) in which the partners did not agree anymore since the contract was already inked months before. He threathened that we would ask IT brands for marketing support if what he wanted couldn’t be given. Sadly, to his dismay, the contract in which he signed had an exclusivity clause in it so competing brands cannot participate in the event even if Ledesma wanted them to.
As the event date drew near, the partners received an email moving the event from October to November. This was to increase the visibility of the promotions that the PPSL needed and give more time for Ledesma to fine tune everything that was needed for the event. The final dates were set on November 7-8, 2011, almost simultaneous to the Pinoy Gaming Festival 2.0 that another gaming group called Mineski was planning. This was relayed to Ledesma, which reportedly said:
Mineski is for squatters, no one will go to that event
Around October, Ledesma flew the United States with his team without the knowledge of the partners. This was to ask for the official and financial support of IGN. By accepting IGN support, the event was now officially IGSL Pacific Qualifiers. This made the partners feel a tad queesy, since Ledesma held a significant amount of money and flew to Las Vegas with three other people. It gave the impression that he used the partner’s money to fund the trip.
Fast forward to November 7. The partners were setting up in Glorietta already as early as 12AM. All the requirements for the event was completed by 7AM and everything was already a green light. Whatever technical glitches on hardware was easily resolved by the partners team. When the players complained about how slow the PC’s were running, the units were immediately upgraded a few hours later. The main technical problem didn’t come from the hardware, but rather on the crawling internet connection that Globe Telecom provided. From 6750 to Glorietta, Globe provided a point to point 3Mbps connection to cater to 32 computer units. Anyone knows that a point to point 3Mbps connection cannot accommodate 32 players playing. This was the bandwidth that Ledesma asked from Globe hence the slow down in the games as well as in the broadcasts. The players had to split into groups, playing across Makati in different internet cafes. Some were left in Glorietta, the rest awaiting what will happen to them. The internet speed remained the same even during the second day. Although there were a lot of spectators and walk-in during the event which made the partners happy, Ledesma seemed uncontent. He was seen hammering the partners for additional for financial support even to the minutes before the prize awarding. It was even reported that the event marshalls and volunteers were not even paid their promised wages.
The main technical problem didn’t come from the hardware, but rather on the crawling internet connection that Globe Telecom provided. From 6750 to Glorietta, Globe provided a point to point 3Mbps connection to cater to 32 computer units.
As for the allegations regarding the players who were supposed to be flown in from abroad or even locally, we cannot comment on it. You’d have to read the links that are listed below if you want more information regarding that aspect of the tournament. As for the Heroes of Newerth side, when the partners pieced it all together, that was actually the reason why Ledesma was severely pushing the addition of 16 units for the tournament. Apparently, Ledesma was given a additional 2000USD to be used for prizes for the HON tournament which he promised to be simultaneous with the IPSL Tournament.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=283925¤tpage=All
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284234¤tpage=All
http://www.gameops.net/2011/11/scandal-at-philippine-pro-starcraft.html
http://www.sc2sea.com/printthread.php?t=2699
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=283600
http://wunder.me/derek-dox-reball-speaks-out-on-ipl4-pacific-qualifiers/
What seemed to be the main problem with Ledesma as far as the partners are concerned is his inability to present a concrete breakdown of expenses and the promised marketing mileage was not attained. Where were the team jackets and lanyards that the partners paid for? What happened to the big posters in the venue as well as the TV coverage? What happened to all the money? It made the partners feel that they were duped by a single entity the same way the rest of the international and local gaming communities. Truly, no single person has made such an impact in the gaming industry that it be making waves around the whole Philippines and international scene. Sadly, instead of putting the Philippines in the international map in a positive way, one man was able to turn the world disgusted at the Philippines on how this international competition happened.
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