EPTIPL Charity Stream to Support Amanda (PPSL) 11/14 - Page 27
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IMPORTANT: the flights are now covered, and Amanda should be fine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285511¤tpage=25#487 further donations will be for "paying event salaries (casters, talent, staff, etc.) and other event-related expenses" | ||
lichter
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
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midgettoes
Australia180 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:01 bibbaly wrote: If YOU PERSONALLY got scammed for 24k would you roll over and not pursue? Here's the issue. Pursuing Gus, by the time you take into account legal fees, is going to cast far far more than the 12k he got off with. It could cost 20-30k+ in legal fees, on a case you may not even get anything back on. International law is very complicated, and there is a good chance Gus could get out of any wrongdoing due to a loophole in a contract. International law contracts actually require very very good lawyers to be foolproof. So yeah, I would drop it and write a more rigid contract, with more trusted community members in the future. Not worth the expense to maybe possibly if you are lucky make a loss of 10k+. Also, I think I read somewhere that while there is 12k in bad debt, it may not be that Gus took off with 12k in pocket, but rather he over-budgeted or something? Still unacceptable and irresponsible, especially leaving the debt in someone else's name. | ||
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On November 15 2011 12:53 FeartheAsian117 wrote: They are. Theyre donating $7000 to her cause. Corporates are full of smart people who take advantage of those that choose to "see the glass as half full". IGN is going to make >$10,000,000 profit this year. This entire event is a drop in the bucket - a drop . They can donate the rest, they are simply choosing not too in order to save a few bucks. I'm sorry if you don't see that - I wish I didn't either. My experience with companies like these has altered my rose-colored glasses. Again, not saying Amanda shouldn't receive help, in my opinion she should. However, it should come from IGN. All of it. There's no legal obligation for IGN to pay the entire balance - that much is clear; but that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing for them to do. | ||
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Emporio
United States3069 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:05 JesusOurSaviour wrote: You sir, have no clue what you are talking about nor about the things which you make confident assertions of. Use the "search" bar on the top right of Team liquid, look up PPSL, Gus Ledesma, YoonYJ, Dox and other keywords. Once you've read all the threads and applied some intellect to sorting them out, then you'll see the full story. Until then it's bad to talk trash. To be fair though, it's been a little confusing whether Gus stole money and ran with it, or just completely underbudgeted the event and ran away when it turned out there wasn't enough money for everything. | ||
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
I think that should be the smallest thing to do for a community which just raised thousands of dollars to bail out a complete stranger. The thanksposting was, well, nice - but come on. Am i the only one who thinks "what, all that isnt even worth more than 20 seconds of typing"? I appreciate Amandas posting, but honestly, .. Well, maybe i expect too much. Although i would like to know for who i just spent money. | ||
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bibbaly
98 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:03 TheRabidDeer wrote: In what way did he fully scam? Is there proof that he ran off with all of the money? The event ran, even though there were some major hitches, and the deal with amanda wasnt contracted. Legally, there might not be anything to pursue. Yes, he is a jackass that mishandled the event and (in my perfect world) would be held accountable and have justice happen... but in the real world this might not even be possible. Do you not know about the hon tournament, Gus scammed S2 out of their money as well as the players who showed up for the tournament that never was. On November 15 2011 13:03 dAPhREAk wrote: if i PERSONALLY got scammed for 24k, i wouldn't spend 50k to get that money back. ever heard the saying dont throw good money after bad? Bad example I admit but an organization depends upon its name being good and being a name that people wouldn't think to scam. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:05 JesusOurSaviour wrote: You sir, have no clue what you are talking about nor about the things which you make confident assertions of. Use the "search" bar on the top right of Team liquid, look up PPSL, Gus Ledesma, YoonYJ, Dox and other keywords. Once you've read all the threads and applied some intellect to sorting them out, then you'll see the full story. Until then it's bad to talk trash. I have read the threads. He is a jackass, like I said. But in strictly LEGAL terms, there may not be anything to pursue. Read my past posts, I dislike Gus. I think hes rotten. But, that doesnt change the facts in the eyes of the actual law. What were his obligations to uphold? YoonYJ attended the event, the event was ran, and that was the end of it. I dont know exactly which expenses were not paid. I dont know if he ran off with money. All I know is that he disappeared and Amanda was left footing the bill, but he was not contracted with Amanda so there is nothing that can be done with that huge chunk of money. What legal obligations did he not uphold? Do you have this information? No. Therefore, we dont know if there is anything that can be done on a LEGAL basis. Therefore, IGN wont bother to pursue legal action (that and legal fees and such add up). EDIT: Do you not know about the hon tournament, Gus scammed S2 out of their money as well as the players who showed up for the tournament that never was. Last I heard, S2 postponed the event but gus didnt tell the players that it was postponed. I havent seen an official statement from S2 though. | ||
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rengarr
42 Posts
I mean I'm glad that the person with the biggest risk in the entire matter has been helped out, but Gus needs to fucking pay for what he did. The debts were a way to hold him liable but now that they're going to disappear without him having to pay a single cent... eh... | ||
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amanduh
Philippines45 Posts
Theres been alot of flaming and hate and like... Well i dont have an actual statement from Gus or as a team... I just want to help fix whatever wrongs have been made as i am not the only one who got hit by it. As stated in the beginning, exceeded amount from the mininum $5000 i will need to cover the travel expense will have to be subdivided to other people as well. I have no intent of grabbing more money than what is due to me. I will be updating IGN directly on what happens from Manila. | ||
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:10 bibbaly wrote: Do you not know about the hon tournament, Gus scammed S2 out of their money as well as the players who showed up for the tournament that never was. Bad example I admit but an organization depends upon its name being good and being a name that people wouldn't think to scam. agreed with the last point, but i think IPL is making sure its name is clean and tidy through its press releases and this charity event. i imagine they will also be vetting tournament organizers a little more carefully in the future. | ||
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midgettoes
Australia180 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:10 bibbaly wrote: Do you not know about the hon tournament, Gus scammed S2 out of their money as well as the players who showed up for the tournament that never was. Bad example I admit but an organization depends upon its name being good and being a name that people wouldn't think to scam. The HoN tournament has been rescheduled according to S2 games - again if you read more about this first you would know that. The organisation has a bloody good name. The only 'fault' was trusting someone too much. It won't happen again. There will be more research done on the tournament beforehand, as well as a more rigid contract agreement I imagine. Also, as was said before, there is doubt as to whether Gus actually 'scammed' the money in the sense he took it and ran or just underbudgeted (and ran...). | ||
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nOondn
564 Posts
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Rocor
United States55 Posts
Just had a question for anyone in the Philippines. Is it common practice for travel agencies to front people thousands of dollars with no legal means to collect said money or insurance to cover ? It just seems if that is how business is done over there that there would be a ton of people getting ripped off all the time. How could anyone stay in business there ? Has anyone verified that this was the actual amount owed ? There is no travel company name,contract language,receipts for flights ect. posted. just a persons first name and a dollar amount owed. Stream is open ! just waiting for a little more explanation before donating, | ||
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SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:00 Nighthawks28 wrote: This is ridiculous. IPL still has budgets from the bigger corporate people of IGN. IPL cannot simply give out free money. They already sponsored the event with $14,000. And you want them to give out free money? LOL You might as well ask why other large organizations aren't just giving out free money to the millions of people that are in need. IGN is just being nice by setting up a charity event. You don't have to donate. Free money? That's what IGN is asking for from the community. Yet they have tons of money and the ability to donate. Some companies do donate lots of money to charity - though they are few are far between. It comes down to the individuals within the company - how strong are their convictions? How important is the charity in their opinion? Never in my life have I seen or worked for a company that has had the means to support a charity, but chooses to beg other people to support it instead. It's ridiculous to argue on behalf of wealthy organization or person, trying to make an excuse for said person/organization as to why they should not share, and why others (people who may be less fortunate but more generous), should! | ||
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P0ckets
United States430 Posts
On November 15 2011 12:59 TheRabidDeer wrote: I have been playing games on the internet for like 12 years now, not once have I learned the address of somebody that I played with, even if I was being paid. The most I have known is their name. Most guys I play games with on a regular basis, I haven't met them all in person but we know where each other lives from basic curiosity or us sending each other old games/extra pc parts. | ||
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JesusOurSaviour
United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:11 TheRabidDeer wrote: Interesting you raise the whole Legal thing up. I don't see many tournaments getting players to sign for things. WCG in the past at the Starcraft Broodwar events at least, have made players sign a statement immediately at the conclusion of every match, demonstrating that both parties agreed on who won and who lost. I'm sure they made players sign other things as well. I have read the threads. He is a jackass, like I said. But in strictly LEGAL terms, there may not be anything to pursue. Read my past posts, I dislike Gus. I think hes rotten. But, that doesnt change the facts in the eyes of the actual law. What were his obligations to uphold? YoonYJ attended the event, the event was ran, and that was the end of it. I dont know exactly which expenses were not paid. I dont know if he ran off with money. All I know is that he disappeared and Amanda was left footing the bill, but he was not contracted with Amanda so there is nothing that can be done with that huge chunk of money. What legal obligations did he not uphold? Do you have this information? No. Therefore, we dont know if there is anything that can be done on a LEGAL basis. Therefore, IGN wont bother to pursue legal action (that and legal fees and such add up). EDIT: Last I heard, S2 postponed the event but gus didnt tell the players that it was postponed. I havent seen an official statement from S2 though. How is E-sports being done atm? The online cups? aTn.Cloud's post about how it takes anywhere between 3months~2years to pay out tournament prizes? Esports looks like an amateur business, which I'm sure people want to change very soon. | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:18 Rocor wrote: Hello, Just had a question for anyone in the Philippines. Is it common practice for travel agencies to front people thousands of dollars with no legal means to collect said money or insurance to cover ? It just seems if that is how business is done over there that there would be a ton of people getting ripped off all the time. How could anyone stay in business there ? Has anyone verified that this was the actual amount owed ? There is no travel company name,contract language,receipts for flights ect. posted. just a persons first name and a dollar amount owed. Stream is open ! just waiting for a little more explanation before donating, Amanda was paid several thousand in a down payment, and gus gave the impression that further payments would not be an issue given the people backing the event. EDIT: This is from what I remember, may not actually be true. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On November 15 2011 12:59 Vindicate wrote: Are people seriously complaining about IGN and the community trying to help someone who got screwed? I'm totally dumbfounded that people could actually be saying that the community/IGN/no one should be trying to help this poor woman and the others who got the short end of the stick. No, there is no obligation. Who gives a shit if you think she committed some poor business practice? Sometimes in this world what we need to do is band together to help people. This world has enough pointless strife and malcontents, the last thing we need is bitching about donating to help people. If you don't want to donate, fine. Don't donate and get the fuck out of thread. I'm actually livid. People like Amanda go out of their way to help out and members of the community suggest we just leave her to rot? Pathetic. Seeing the generosity of others reminds us of our own failings. I can't afford to donate atm and it kinda makes me feel bad. Props for everyone who does though. | ||
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SniXSniPe
United States1938 Posts
It's just from the time I've spent there people are so... back-handed for the most part. Of course, there are plenty of good people, but it seems money is rotten to the core there. Even with family... | ||
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Vindicate
United States169 Posts
On November 15 2011 13:08 SCST wrote: Corporates are full of smart people who take advantage of those that choose to "see the glass as half full". IGN is going to make >$10,000,000 profit this year. This entire event is a drop in the bucket - a drop . They can donate the rest, they are simply choosing not too in order to save a few bucks. I'm sorry if you don't see that - I wish I didn't either. My experience with companies like these has altered my rose-colored glasses. Again, not saying Amanda shouldn't receive help, in my opinion she should. However, it should come from IGN. All of it. There's no legal obligation for IGN to pay the entire balance - that much is clear; but that doesn't mean it isn't the right thing for them to do. I think that's really faulty logic. Just because a company can afford to give away X dollars for any particular cause doesn't A) mean it's good business practice, B) create some moral or legal obligation to do so, or C) mean it's ok to hold the corporation financially accountable simply because they are the party in best position to be. Being successful in business doesn't mean that suddenly they are subject to rules or obligations that less successful people are not, barring tax brackets and the like. The question that arises under your idea is at what point has a corporation met its success-based obligation? 10% of their profit? Why not 20%, if they make so much money? Who gets to decide where the money goes and how much of it? If we penalize a company for being successful we discourage good business practice and encourage cheap tricks like writing off assets, shifting income, and other practices like that. Besides, if IGN can afford to hand out money, why give it to one person? Surely there are entire organizations that can be saved, hundreds of people with that much money? Under your logic corporations are responsible for great numbers of people, just because they can be. I don't think that's good practice but I see your point. I respectfully disagree with your stance. EDIT for grammar. | ||
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