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On October 26 2011 23:41 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 23:21 Xavi-avi wrote:On October 26 2011 21:46 MrBitter wrote:
There are countless avenues through which to do this legitimately.
Please let me know what these legitimate ways are. I know the best way to promote this is via and SC2 pro-gamer, but they're extremely busy and IME hard to get in contact with. I was hoping to get a reply from Day9 or Tasteless before the site got post on TL, but unfortunately that's not what happened... Your idea is excellent. The community loves SC2. The community loves supporting SC2. Why not give them means to do it directly?
IS the idea that excellenet? I mean there are so many showmatches or other games played so often, and its possible to watch most high level players on a weekly basis. Do people really want to pay to watch TLO vs Spanishwa or Sheth vs some other guy?
I can understand that people want to watch day9 and/or tasteless play, because we dont know how good they are. But is it actually possible to get these kind of players to play in the showmatches? Or is it only possible to watch the players we watch almost every day?
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On October 26 2011 22:47 TBO wrote:
MrBitter vs MrRamirez Grudge Match! I'd donate 10 Dollar for that.
Haha, I'd lose. I can't even cheese correctly. But I'm up for talking it out with MrBitter -- would even be willing to post the conversation.
MrBitter is you're interested, skype me: xavi-ramirez.
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On October 26 2011 23:53 Xavi-avi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 23:19 Serejai wrote:On October 26 2011 23:16 Xavi-avi wrote:On October 26 2011 22:55 Ryder. wrote:
Anonymous person on the Internet opens a website asking for for money for 'show matches' without prior making a thread, contacting any casters, contacting the players or giving any information as to how much is required, what the deadline date will be, with the only thing to suggest any credibility being a flashy website, and you are saying we should just trust him with our money?
People are justified in expressing their concerns, if nobody did then others may read this topic, assume it was legit and lose their money. Better to err on the side of suspicion where the worst that could happen is the show matches don't go through, than err on the side of trusting where the worst that could happen is many people being scammed...
He should have undertaken the necessary steps before putting the site up, and if it turns out to be legit then all is good, and if anything he gained publicity out of it. Hello Before I launch the site, I did try contact a number of casters and players. I even got to exchanged a handful of emails with Destiny, djWheat, and Artosis -- mostly about advice on how I should brand the site. When I say, I haven't been in contact with the players, I mostly mean I haven't been able to contact Day9, Tasteless, Idra, or iNControl. Also, you are not trusting me with money. The site does not charge you until the show match occurs. Also, keep in mind that I'm using paypal for these transactions. Paypal (and credit card companies in general) have excellent anti-scam measures. If this does turn out to be a scam, paypal and/or your credit card company will cancel the hold your account (remember there is no money to be returned). I understand that people would have concerns. That is why I'm making my contact info well known. My personal email is xavi.rmz@gmail.com (though adjunct@provpro.org also works) and my skype is xavi-ramirez. Please message me if you have concerns. I assure this isn't some this isn't just some site I through up over the weekend. I've worked nights and weekends for the past month and half to make sure everything is as polished as possible. I've asked dozens of people for advice both in and out of the starcraft community. This is very much a labor of love. Just curious... you said you live in California but your website WHOIS says you live in Massachusetts. I called the address you have registered to your domain and the residents said they had no idea who you were. Just looking for clarification. Hmm, I thought I updated my whois info. I live is Massachusetts for 8 years. I only recently moved to California for a job change. Check out my resume and linkedin for more info: - http://xavi.co/resume- http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=26181837
http://xavi.co/visual-sort
This page makes you awesome in my book.  I could watch that all day.
I at least am persuaded that there's no reason to assume this is anything but someone's first time attempt to get involved in the E-Sports community. I'm currently planning my own first community event, and it's a very intimidating process, so I have sympathy for you getting called out in a thread like this, though I understand MrBitter's suspicions. I hope your site works out for you. I highly doubt you're going to get Day[9] and Tasteless to play another public match, but I wish you luck.
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On October 26 2011 22:32 Serejai wrote:
I would like to go ahead and chime in.
Based on some research this guy seems like a legit programmer, however I see zero previous contributions to the gaming community.
His website is also registered to an address that isn't his (called the residency because I'm bored... they had no idea who this guy was).
I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and just let things play out, though. That being said I personally wouldn't donate, regardless of who was running it, unless the actual players in the requested matches publicly stated they would participate in the first place.
What number did you call? The address on the whois is incorrect. I only recently moved to california for a job:
- http://xavi.co/resume
- http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=26181837
Also, if you want more confirmation feel free to skype me: xavi-ramirez
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It's personally upsetting that every time someone new comes up with a business point in esports, they always miss the first step --- reaching out to community veterans for their experience and support.
Our sc2 community is inherently savvy and critical bunch. Without that first step, we always reject new initiatives. Whether the business plan is sound or not, simply because it's from outsiders.
And once the initial impression is set, I have yet to see anyone overcome it.
Hope this is a lesson to all the eSports entrepreneurs out there.
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On October 27 2011 00:10 Primadog wrote:
It's personally upsetting that every time someone new comes up with a business point in esports, they always miss the first step --- reaching out to community veterans for their experience and support.
Our sc2 community is inherently savvy and critical bunch, without making that first step, we always throw out those new initiatives, whether the business plan is sound or not.
And once the initial impression is set, I have yet to see anyone overcome it.
Hope this is a lesson to all the eSports entrepreneurs out there.
I even got to exchanged a handful of emails with Destiny, djWheat, and Artosis -- mostly about advice on how I should brand the site. When I say, I haven't been in contact with the players, I mostly mean I haven't been able to contact Day9, Tasteless, Idra, or iNControl.
Fucking bolded the wrong part lol.
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Support, Torte. Nobody has come out and say, "I have been working with x on this, and everyone should check it out." If someone like diggity has came out and say he's part of the project, will we have a thread call "about sc2 scam"?
Essentially, his mistake is missing the implicit vetting process that all esports projects need to go through.
To be specific with this particular project. I would had find from the players and casters that whether the showmatch listed are viable in the first place. You do so by getting a verbal okay from the player and casters first. The person involved never done that. A project like this will not get off the ground, proper, if he has not even build a relationship with the Pros and casters he intend to solicite.
For example, we all know full well that Tasteless vs Day9 will not happen. I had know of enough attempts to know they have personal reasons not to. Why even bother listing it?
To be sure, I think the idea has merit, just execution is flawed. I am personal upset that so many good eSports project die before they get a proper chance to prosper.
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I think Bitter was entirely justified to suspect a website like this, it does look shady when players aren't contacted and the first thing it does it shove a form in your face for your credit card information.
I think it's a decent idea and there's certainly a group of sc2 fans willing to pay for this sort of thing but there are some general flaws in the implementation in my opinion. How long does the donation window stay open, is there an upper limit when its funded and the players will play? Who decides that? It says it can charge cards within 28 days, which gives you a month from the very first donation to contact and organize a showmatch when you don't have any of that arranged before hand.
The payout says players are guaranteed 10% for showing up, what does that even mean when the payout is 90% to them? Is there a scenario where money is taken, but no showmatch takes place? I really don't get why that's there.
Overall I think the intentions are good but the planning and execution are simply not, and given that it's run by people who have no history in the SC2 community it should be met with skepticism.
I'd also encourage people not to use it until some fundamental questions are answered about contacting players etc. There's $400 up for 2 casters who are notoriously hard to contact and don't have much interest in playing for example. That's how easy it is to prey on your nerd fantasies if someone were so inclined.
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This OP is so rude. MKP going MLG shows this could be a really great idea.
Just because it isn't endorsed by JP and first posted on TL, doesn't mean it's a scam.
It's not right to just to conclusions and defame someone like this.
YOU should wait and go through the proper channels (paypal for example) to find out if this is a scam, instead of going by some made up rules that new websites have to go through your community before being considered legit, and then talking out of your ass.
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On October 27 2011 00:10 Primadog wrote:
It's personally upsetting that every time someone new comes up with a business point in esports, they always miss the first step --- reaching out to community veterans for their experience and support.
Our sc2 community is inherently savvy and critical bunch, without making that first step, we always throw out those new initiatives, whether the business plan is sound or not.
And once the initial impression is set, I have yet to see anyone overcome it.
Hope this is a lesson to all the eSports entrepreneurs out there.
This is an issue I'm struggling with myself (though Training Day is just an event I want to turn into a regular thing rather than a business venture): No one knows who I am, and established community members are too busy to be reviewing everyones new ideas to consider endorsing them. How do you get recognition before you have recognition? I think there really is a point where you just have to say "fuck it," put yourself out there, and hope that if your idea is a good one it will start gathering positive attention on its own merits.
Obviously this is a bigger stumbling block for businesses or any sort of event that costs money, since they're actually asking for trust from the community, but it's an issue for anyone who wants to make the transition from sideliner to a contributing community member, and I'm not sure that waiting to get approval from established community members is a reasonable first step. I did manage to snag an endorsement from MrBitter himself, but that involved beer, which is a solution that doesn't scale well.
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personally I saw this on reddit earlier today and immediately thought scam.... but usually Reddit people are awesome so its actually most likely legit.... but I wont be donating or anything
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you should probably apologise for completely over reacting OP
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I tried the paypal login, it definitely looks legit on that side.
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i dont know what this is but, Day9 vs Tasteless would be awesome
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Is MrBitter just angry that neither him nor Rotterdam is on the site? ^__^
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On October 26 2011 23:09 nam nam wrote:
So what's in it for you? Judging by what you write on the site 90 % goes to players and the rest to fees. Stream revenue or what?
This is not a business. I just thought it would be cool to make...
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On October 27 2011 00:26 Xavi-avi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 23:09 nam nam wrote:
So what's in it for you? Judging by what you write on the site 90 % goes to players and the rest to fees. Stream revenue or what? This is not a business. I just thought it would be cool to make...
If this becomes successful, I don't particularly care if you make a bit of money on it. We can never have too much SC2 content, and you're giving the community a chance to see exactly what they want :D
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You have my support Xavi.
Press on!
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On October 27 2011 00:14 Primadog wrote:
For example, we all know full well that Tasteless vs Day9 will not happen. I had know of enough attempts to know they have personal reasons not to. Why even bother listing it?
Because you aren't being charged until the match happens, if it happens. That's the whole point, players see growing $$$ and eventually decide to bite giving the fans what they want.
The entire purpose is to set something up that doesn't require a pre-scheduled show match.
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Canada13389 Posts
On October 26 2011 21:48 TheSilverfox wrote:
It says on their site that: "Note: You won't be charged until the match takes place."
I have not tested if it will be like that, but that should make it a bit more legitimate.
Guy who can take the money when the match takes place can take the money when it ultimately doesn't and then shut down site. GG no RE.
Its like saying "send me money via Western Union but don't worry! We won't take the money until the nigerian prince I represent confirms that you will be receiving your money back + interest in a week!"
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EPT
