On October 27 2011 02:26 Excludos wrote: "There is fraud and theft protection built into PayPal, and into the credit card companies that would protect us as individuals should something shady happen."
Unless they changed their ToS the last year, there is absolutely no fraud protection in PayPal..in fact, there is a written rule stating they will NOT help with fraud. Which Kinda left me out dark when I bought a paintball gun worth 500usd, recieved an empty box, and PayPal refused to help.
Ya, saying that is misleading at best. Even credit cards, which does offer full fraud protection, is a bitch to work with and takes forever to get your money back.
Not a strike against mrbitter or xavi, just that it's a nonargument.
On October 27 2011 02:26 Excludos wrote: "There is fraud and theft protection built into PayPal, and into the credit card companies that would protect us as individuals should something shady happen."
Unless they changed their ToS the last year, there is absolutely no fraud protection in PayPal..in fact, there is a written rule stating they will NOT help with fraud. Which Kinda left me out dark when I bought a paintball gun worth 500usd, recieved an empty box, and PayPal refused to help.
I've received full refunds from Paypal in the past. They do have fraud protection in Canada and the States at least, this I know first hand.
On October 27 2011 02:26 Excludos wrote: "There is fraud and theft protection built into PayPal, and into the credit card companies that would protect us as individuals should something shady happen."
Unless they changed their ToS the last year, there is absolutely no fraud protection in PayPal..in fact, there is a written rule stating they will NOT help with fraud. Which Kinda left me out dark when I bought a paintball gun worth 500usd, recieved an empty box, and PayPal refused to help.
I'm not too savy on this subject but as far as I know paypal pretty much always sides with the buyer.
I hope I'm not breaking any rules here (sorry I normally stick to reddit), but I'm the creator of the site design. I was contacted by Xavi after he saw a wallpaper I posted, and we worked together for a few weeks. I can maybe help answer any question or concerns?
Ok, maybe I am just too old, but please help me: This is a site where everyone can select two random people to make a SC2 showmatch against each other. Others are then asked to donate money to a virtual pool as prize money to someone who identifies himself by giving two email adresses. If the match happens it will be streamed (nothing sure says the page) and maybe commentated. There is nothing aranged for streaming, commentating nor the players are even asked beforehand. If the match does not happen the money is not taken from the donors (so says the owner of the site).
On October 27 2011 02:26 Excludos wrote: "There is fraud and theft protection built into PayPal, and into the credit card companies that would protect us as individuals should something shady happen."
Unless they changed their ToS the last year, there is absolutely no fraud protection in PayPal..in fact, there is a written rule stating they will NOT help with fraud. Which Kinda left me out dark when I bought a paintball gun worth 500usd, recieved an empty box, and PayPal refused to help.
I've received full refunds from Paypal in the past. They do have fraud protection in Canada and the States at least, this I know first hand.
maybe you bought it through ebay? Ebay has a fraud protection.
Also, PayPal does have protection against packages not being sent. But if the seller sends an empty package, like he did with me, then it counts as fraud. And paypal does not help with that.
This is from their own site:
"When you pay with PayPal, you gain access to a forum for dispute resolution called the Resolution Center. Through it, you can file a claim against: A physical good that you paid for but never received.
A physical good you purchased on eBay that is significantly different than what was described in the listing."
Notice how it doesn't state that they protect vs "significantly different" product NOT bought on ebay.
So if you pay to this site, and it doesn't deliver, PayPal wont help you.
On October 27 2011 02:26 Excludos wrote: "There is fraud and theft protection built into PayPal, and into the credit card companies that would protect us as individuals should something shady happen."
Unless they changed their ToS the last year, there is absolutely no fraud protection in PayPal..in fact, there is a written rule stating they will NOT help with fraud. Which Kinda left me out dark when I bought a paintball gun worth 500usd, recieved an empty box, and PayPal refused to help.
I've received full refunds from Paypal in the past. They do have fraud protection in Canada and the States at least, this I know first hand.
maybe you bought it through ebay? Ebay has a fraud protection.
Also, PayPal does have protection against packages not being sent. But if the seller sends an empty package, like he did with me, then it counts as fraud. And paypal does not help with that.
This is from their own site:
"When you pay with PayPal, you gain access to a forum for dispute resolution called the Resolution Center. Through it, you can file a claim against: A physical good that you paid for but never received.
A physical good you purchased on eBay that is significantly different than what was described in the listing."
Notice how it doesn't state that they protect vs "significantly different" product NOT bought on ebay.
So if you pay to this site, and it doesn't deliver, PayPal wont help you.
Maybe my English is not good enough but a empty package is a "A physical good that you paid for but never received." You pay for the inside of the package not the package itself...
Bought through online vendor based in the US shipped to Canada. Not eBay. The vendor was REALLY pissed about it, but I returned the item and recuperated everything I'd paid.
Why don't you file under the A physical good that you paid for but never received. you're talking about. You bought a gun and received a box...
Let's not derail this thread any further, PM me if you wish.
On October 27 2011 03:00 Zorkmid wrote: Bought through online vendor based in the US shipped to Canada. Not eBay. The vendor was REALLY pissed about it, but I returned the item and recuperated everything I'd paid.
Why don't you file under the A physical good that you paid for but never received. you're talking about. You bought a gun and received a box...
Let's not derail this thread any further, PM me if you wish.
I filed it under that at first, when he didn't send a package at all. Then he sent an empty package, and I updated the dispute stating what had happened. PayPal then closed the dispute, and told me they don't protect vs scam. When a dispute is closed in paypal, it can never be opened again under any circumstances.
edit: also, this isn't derailing the thread imo, as its kinda important for people to know if they are protected vs donating to this site for this cause. And they are not. Thats not to say this is a scam though. If the user a few posts above is indeed the owner of the site, then that points to it maybe being ok. Considering he actually took the time to register on TL
On October 27 2011 03:00 Zorkmid wrote: Bought through online vendor based in the US shipped to Canada. Not eBay. The vendor was REALLY pissed about it, but I returned the item and recuperated everything I'd paid.
Why don't you file under the A physical good that you paid for but never received. you're talking about. You bought a gun and received a box...
Let's not derail this thread any further, PM me if you wish.
I filed it under that at first, when he didn't send a package at all. Then he sent an empty package, and I updated the dispute stating what had happened. PayPal then closed the dispute, and told me they don't protect vs scam. When a dispute is closed in paypal, it can never be opened again under any circumstances.
edit: also, this isn't derailing the thread imo, as its kinda important for people to know if they are protected vs donating to this site for this cause. And they are not. Thats not to say this is a scam though. If the user a few posts above is indeed the owner of the site, then that points to it maybe being ok. Considering he actually took the time to register on TL
Well, there's gotta be something you're not telling us about your gun, because that seems ludicrous that you can be charged $500 for an empty box.
On October 27 2011 03:00 Zorkmid wrote: Bought through online vendor based in the US shipped to Canada. Not eBay. The vendor was REALLY pissed about it, but I returned the item and recuperated everything I'd paid.
Why don't you file under the A physical good that you paid for but never received. you're talking about. You bought a gun and received a box...
Let's not derail this thread any further, PM me if you wish.
I filed it under that at first, when he didn't send a package at all. Then he sent an empty package, and I updated the dispute stating what had happened. PayPal then closed the dispute, and told me they don't protect vs scam. When a dispute is closed in paypal, it can never be opened again under any circumstances.
edit: also, this isn't derailing the thread imo, as its kinda important for people to know if they are protected vs donating to this site for this cause. And they are not. Thats not to say this is a scam though. If the user a few posts above is indeed the owner of the site, then that points to it maybe being ok. Considering he actually took the time to register on TL
Well, there's gotta be something you're not telling us about your gun, because that seems ludicrous that you can be charged for an empty box.
Well... you can always be the test subject... and have excludos demonstrate on you first...? who knows... and you'll get to see if it was true or not?
On October 27 2011 03:00 Zorkmid wrote: Bought through online vendor based in the US shipped to Canada. Not eBay. The vendor was REALLY pissed about it, but I returned the item and recuperated everything I'd paid.
Why don't you file under the A physical good that you paid for but never received. you're talking about. You bought a gun and received a box...
Let's not derail this thread any further, PM me if you wish.
I filed it under that at first, when he didn't send a package at all. Then he sent an empty package, and I updated the dispute stating what had happened. PayPal then closed the dispute, and told me they don't protect vs scam. When a dispute is closed in paypal, it can never be opened again under any circumstances.
edit: also, this isn't derailing the thread imo, as its kinda important for people to know if they are protected vs donating to this site for this cause. And they are not. Thats not to say this is a scam though. If the user a few posts above is indeed the owner of the site, then that points to it maybe being ok. Considering he actually took the time to register on TL
Well, there's gotta be something you're not telling us about your gun, because that seems ludicrous that you can be charged $500 for an empty box.
Excludo's story is not unique. This happens unfortunately frequent in the paintball circles. How to not get scammed or who're the scammers are a frequent topic in paintball forums.
On October 27 2011 00:38 Nalesnik wrote: So he is selling off incredible show-matches between famous players, and he hasn't even told the players about this? ...really?
I think you're miss understanding the point of the site. I'm not "selling off show-matches", I'm trying to give fans another voice and players another possible source of revenue.
Also, I have e-mail players about the site, but they are busy people and they likely overlooked the e-mail and tweet.
Yes, but your collecting money from a website that you created, without any guarantee that the show-matches will ever take place.
Sorry man, but you need something more solid than that for people to trust you.
Again, I'm not collecting money. Also, again, the purpose of the site is not to "buy and sell" matches. The purpose is to give fans another voice. We all love sc2 and well all try to contribute in our own way. Some people write an insightful post on TL. Some make a rage comic for reddit. Now, some can contribute by pledging money to show-matches.
On October 27 2011 00:38 Nalesnik wrote: Refunding all the donations you collected so far, and hold off collecting any more for now until you can guarantee the show-matches (contacting players for their approval etc) will go a LONG way into making this project legit. If you can't do that, I don't see any reason anyone should trust you with their money.
This statement doesn't make sense. There is no money to refund.
If this is actually legit and ends up creating some pretty cool showmatches, I have no problem with the owner of the site making a bit of money off of it as long as he's upfront about exactly how much of a cut he takes, which he says is 10% right now.
This is an excellent idea. Providing pros with money for games and contacting them to hold matches is a brilliant and dedicated idea. Since the owner actually responded to criticism, I'm inclined to think this is a step forward, rather than...you know, a scam.
On October 27 2011 04:55 Xavi-avi wrote: Again, I'm not collecting money. Also, again, the purpose of the site is not to "buy and sell" matches. The purpose is to give fans another voice. We all love sc2 and well all try to contribute in our own way. Some people write an insightful post on TL. Some make a rage comic for reddit. Now, some can contribute by pledging money to show-matches.
Can we get this in the OP? Maybe change the title?
I put my own $10 on the line just to see what would happen, nothing has been taking out of my account like Xavi is saying.
If I lose my $10 without getting the showmatch, I'll let everyone know.
I really like the idea behind this project, and it's something I would contribute to. A number of things need to happen though. Talking to established members of the community is a good start, but you really need to lock players down before you put their pictures up and promise matches. And I realize you aren't technically making the promise, but on the flip side, yeah, you kinda are...
It might be, or might have been, a good idea to make a detailed thread beforehand to guage interest as well. That way, when you approach the higher-ups, you have a bit more credibility for having put in that extra work.
On October 27 2011 01:25 Pokebunny wrote: You can't give power to the community when the site doesn't have the authority to give that power... the power is in the players. If the players aren't willing to play, the site should not be able to advertise them as a showmatch possibility. Even if they're not promising anything, the prospect of a match is false advertisement that draws people to their site for nothing.
I think players should be able to sign up for the player pool, with requirement of having games listed in TLPD (or something of the sort to prove they are notable), then setting their minimum requirement for a match / servers willing to play / etc.
It's a fan site where fans say who they want to see play each other with the most obvious incentive to anyone. There is no guarantee made anywhere saying the matches will ever even happen. If the players aren't interested, they'll say so when asked to play for $100's of dollars and that will be that. It is probably not something that can be set up ahead of time in TLPD since players might be bronze league or never even have played before (e.g. Joe Rogan vs Sundance).
I get the impression from reading through the thread that people are upset this guy might make $10 from promoting fun matches that people want to see. The thread title itself is already a guilty until proven innocent accusation. Pretty lame sc2 community, pretty lame.
Nyovne said it best in his post, IMO
There's nothing lame about speaking up when you think someone might be getting screwed. It's a hell of a lot more lame to stand around and do nothing, in my opinion.
I agree, but as a community leader (whether you want to be or not) you need to ask these questions without a pitchfork in hand (thread title & OP). Regardless, you did the right thing by looking into it and editing your post as details surfaced.
EPT
