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Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:19:37
October 26 2011 16:16 GMT
#101
Fantastic idea for a site... from what I've seen so far I don't think it's a scam at all. I agree that there should be a player pool of players that have approved showmatches for the site to pull from though, fans shouldn't be able to pledge donations to matches that have 0% chance of happening.

If you do make such a player pool, I am happy to be in it~! ^^

I mean it's fine for the community to request matches, but the fact that you're pledging money to a showmatch like Day9 vs Tasteless or matches involving NesTea which are CLEARLY not going to happen no matter how much money is given.. idk.

If this got established, I could see it being fantastic for both players and fans and extremely successful.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
October 26 2011 16:17 GMT
#102
Fairly or unfairly, our community has shunned projects for less. If ProVPro regroup, make a few changes, and reach out - it can fulfill the potential that exists in this concept. We won't be debating it so vigorously if there's no hope in it to succeed.
Thank God and gunrun.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:18:59
October 26 2011 16:18 GMT
#103
On October 27 2011 01:11 Treemonkeys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2011 01:04 floor exercise wrote:
On October 27 2011 00:58 Treemonkeys wrote:
I just setup Destiny vs. Nestea and pledged $10 as required, to show that:

These matches are not setup buy the website, they are community requests. That's why it's okay for them to be unplanned. It's just a way for the community to tell two players: "we'll pay you this much for a show match".

I went through a secure paypal login and my paypal account has not been charged.


It is insecure insofar as you authorized some guy to charge your account on the promise that it only happens when a game takes place. The issue is you don't know this person from Adam. That doesn't make it safe or reliable or ease any of the concerns that other people have.

What if instead of people just pledging money to showmatches at random, he talked to the gamers and they set a price that would make it worth while for them to play the games, and if the community meets that through donations, it happens, instead of putting up fantasy matches that likely will never occur and giving some guy permission to take money at any point if he was so inclined.


Right, at worse I'm out $10 until I report it to paypal. But like I said, my account has not been charged. Just because you don't trust someone, doesn't mean it's okay to call them a scammer. Until I get charged without seeing that show match, it's not a scam. The pending authorization expires on November 24th, so he has access to my $10 until then.

You're "what if instead" is not that different than your run of the mill show match, this idea is better because it is automated and limitless, so any match can be set at any price. If the price is right, some pros will bite.



There's no reason that the donations will stop coming in when the lower limit is met, it's just a guarantee that the games will actually be played when that amount of money is reached instead of just throwing money at a website as pledges, in many cases with the players completely oblivious to what you are doing let alone having any idea as to whether or not they want to play for the amount that has been reached.

You might get one of your fantasy match ups to go through with this amidst a huge proportion that just fall by the wayside because of a silly set up.

People can add match ups without the pledges, there's a system in place to show support without money already. The next step can be contacting players of match ups the fans really want to see, gauging their interest, setting a limit, and opening donations.

The only significant difference is my idea actually has some element of organisation to it
venom0us
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60 Posts
October 26 2011 16:18 GMT
#104
At first I thought that this had to be a scam because MrBitter is never wrong <3 but as I read on and saw Xavi's credentials it seems like a really cool idea that I think a lot of people would be into. If reddit could raise 4 grand in a couple of hours to send MKP to MLG then I think that a LOT of people would be more than happy to pay a couple of bucks to see their favorite players duke it out. Keep up the good work Xavi!
MstrJinbo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1251 Posts
October 26 2011 16:19 GMT
#105
@Pokebunny you'd do a one of these showmatches if asked right?
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:20:49
October 26 2011 16:19 GMT
#106
On October 27 2011 01:19 MstrJinbo wrote:
@Pokebunny you'd do a one of these showmatches if asked right?

Of course

I think showmatches are great - simple and effective, don't require too much work like following a tournament, and fans get the games they want while players are decently paid for not too much time.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:23:03
October 26 2011 16:21 GMT
#107
On October 27 2011 01:18 floor exercise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2011 01:11 Treemonkeys wrote:
On October 27 2011 01:04 floor exercise wrote:
On October 27 2011 00:58 Treemonkeys wrote:
I just setup Destiny vs. Nestea and pledged $10 as required, to show that:

These matches are not setup buy the website, they are community requests. That's why it's okay for them to be unplanned. It's just a way for the community to tell two players: "we'll pay you this much for a show match".

I went through a secure paypal login and my paypal account has not been charged.


It is insecure insofar as you authorized some guy to charge your account on the promise that it only happens when a game takes place. The issue is you don't know this person from Adam. That doesn't make it safe or reliable or ease any of the concerns that other people have.

What if instead of people just pledging money to showmatches at random, he talked to the gamers and they set a price that would make it worth while for them to play the games, and if the community meets that through donations, it happens, instead of putting up fantasy matches that likely will never occur and giving some guy permission to take money at any point if he was so inclined.


Right, at worse I'm out $10 until I report it to paypal. But like I said, my account has not been charged. Just because you don't trust someone, doesn't mean it's okay to call them a scammer. Until I get charged without seeing that show match, it's not a scam. The pending authorization expires on November 24th, so he has access to my $10 until then.

You're "what if instead" is not that different than your run of the mill show match, this idea is better because it is automated and limitless, so any match can be set at any price. If the price is right, some pros will bite.



There's no reason that the donations will stop coming in when the lower limit is met, it's just a guarantee that the games will actually be played when that amount of money is reached instead of just throwing money at a website as pledges, in many cases with the players completely oblivious to what you are doing let alone having any idea as to whether or not they want to play for the amount that has been reached.

You might get one of your fantasy match ups to go through with this amidst a huge proportion that just fall by the wayside because of a silly set up.

People can add match ups without the pledges, there's a system in place to show support without money already. The next step can be contacting players of match ups the fans really want to see, gauging their interest, setting a limit, and opening donations.

The only significant difference is my idea actually has some element of organisation to it


It still defeats the entire purpose of the site - giving the power to the community. Yes it lacks front loaded organization, it couldn't work in the same way if it had that.

This can become and always on price tag for show matches.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
NagAfightinG
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom270 Posts
October 26 2011 16:22 GMT
#108
On October 27 2011 01:19 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2011 01:19 MstrJinbo wrote:
@Pokebunny you'd do a one of these showmatches if asked right?

Of course

I think showmatches are great - simple and effective, don't require too much work like following a tournament, and fans get the games they want while players are decently paid for not too much time.

Never change <3
We live like animals thinking of the afterlive
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:26:51
October 26 2011 16:25 GMT
#109
On October 27 2011 01:21 Treemonkeys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2011 01:18 floor exercise wrote:
On October 27 2011 01:11 Treemonkeys wrote:
On October 27 2011 01:04 floor exercise wrote:
On October 27 2011 00:58 Treemonkeys wrote:
I just setup Destiny vs. Nestea and pledged $10 as required, to show that:

These matches are not setup buy the website, they are community requests. That's why it's okay for them to be unplanned. It's just a way for the community to tell two players: "we'll pay you this much for a show match".

I went through a secure paypal login and my paypal account has not been charged.


It is insecure insofar as you authorized some guy to charge your account on the promise that it only happens when a game takes place. The issue is you don't know this person from Adam. That doesn't make it safe or reliable or ease any of the concerns that other people have.

What if instead of people just pledging money to showmatches at random, he talked to the gamers and they set a price that would make it worth while for them to play the games, and if the community meets that through donations, it happens, instead of putting up fantasy matches that likely will never occur and giving some guy permission to take money at any point if he was so inclined.


Right, at worse I'm out $10 until I report it to paypal. But like I said, my account has not been charged. Just because you don't trust someone, doesn't mean it's okay to call them a scammer. Until I get charged without seeing that show match, it's not a scam. The pending authorization expires on November 24th, so he has access to my $10 until then.

You're "what if instead" is not that different than your run of the mill show match, this idea is better because it is automated and limitless, so any match can be set at any price. If the price is right, some pros will bite.



There's no reason that the donations will stop coming in when the lower limit is met, it's just a guarantee that the games will actually be played when that amount of money is reached instead of just throwing money at a website as pledges, in many cases with the players completely oblivious to what you are doing let alone having any idea as to whether or not they want to play for the amount that has been reached.

You might get one of your fantasy match ups to go through with this amidst a huge proportion that just fall by the wayside because of a silly set up.

People can add match ups without the pledges, there's a system in place to show support without money already. The next step can be contacting players of match ups the fans really want to see, gauging their interest, setting a limit, and opening donations.

The only significant difference is my idea actually has some element of organisation to it


It still defeats the entire purpose of the site - giving the power to the community. Yes it lacks front loaded organization, it couldn't work in the same way if it had that.

This can become and always on price tag for show matches.

You can't give power to the community when the site doesn't have the authority to give that power... the power is in the players. If the players aren't willing to play, the site should not be able to advertise them as a showmatch possibility. Even if they're not promising anything, the prospect of a match is false advertisement that draws people to their site for nothing.

I think players should be able to sign up for the player pool, with requirement of having games listed in TLPD (or something of the sort to prove they are notable), then setting their minimum requirement for a match / servers willing to play / etc.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
Fealthas
Profile Joined May 2011
607 Posts
October 26 2011 16:26 GMT
#110
It does look a bit scammy lol.
I wouldnt suggest donating.
PlaGuE_R
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
France1151 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:31:08
October 26 2011 16:30 GMT
#111
listen to Pokebunny, and if anyone is likely to get your foot in the door as an organizer, it's an established pro like him. Nice initiative Pokebunny :-) This could be a really good system for less famous players to get some money and some limelight if they're paired up agaisnt some really famous ones

EDIT: edited terrible typo
TLO FIGHTING | me all in, he drone drone drone, me win - SK.MC | JINROLLED! | KraToss for the win
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:37:08
October 26 2011 16:35 GMT
#112
On October 27 2011 01:25 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 27 2011 01:21 Treemonkeys wrote:
On October 27 2011 01:18 floor exercise wrote:
On October 27 2011 01:11 Treemonkeys wrote:
On October 27 2011 01:04 floor exercise wrote:
On October 27 2011 00:58 Treemonkeys wrote:
I just setup Destiny vs. Nestea and pledged $10 as required, to show that:

These matches are not setup buy the website, they are community requests. That's why it's okay for them to be unplanned. It's just a way for the community to tell two players: "we'll pay you this much for a show match".

I went through a secure paypal login and my paypal account has not been charged.


It is insecure insofar as you authorized some guy to charge your account on the promise that it only happens when a game takes place. The issue is you don't know this person from Adam. That doesn't make it safe or reliable or ease any of the concerns that other people have.

What if instead of people just pledging money to showmatches at random, he talked to the gamers and they set a price that would make it worth while for them to play the games, and if the community meets that through donations, it happens, instead of putting up fantasy matches that likely will never occur and giving some guy permission to take money at any point if he was so inclined.


Right, at worse I'm out $10 until I report it to paypal. But like I said, my account has not been charged. Just because you don't trust someone, doesn't mean it's okay to call them a scammer. Until I get charged without seeing that show match, it's not a scam. The pending authorization expires on November 24th, so he has access to my $10 until then.

You're "what if instead" is not that different than your run of the mill show match, this idea is better because it is automated and limitless, so any match can be set at any price. If the price is right, some pros will bite.



There's no reason that the donations will stop coming in when the lower limit is met, it's just a guarantee that the games will actually be played when that amount of money is reached instead of just throwing money at a website as pledges, in many cases with the players completely oblivious to what you are doing let alone having any idea as to whether or not they want to play for the amount that has been reached.

You might get one of your fantasy match ups to go through with this amidst a huge proportion that just fall by the wayside because of a silly set up.

People can add match ups without the pledges, there's a system in place to show support without money already. The next step can be contacting players of match ups the fans really want to see, gauging their interest, setting a limit, and opening donations.

The only significant difference is my idea actually has some element of organisation to it


It still defeats the entire purpose of the site - giving the power to the community. Yes it lacks front loaded organization, it couldn't work in the same way if it had that.

This can become and always on price tag for show matches.

You can't give power to the community when the site doesn't have the authority to give that power... the power is in the players. If the players aren't willing to play, the site should not be able to advertise them as a showmatch possibility.

I think players should be able to sign up for the player pool, with requirement of having games listed in TLPD (or something of the sort to prove they are notable), then setting their minimum requirement for a match / servers willing to play / etc.


It's giving the community the power to ask for a match and set a price for it, that's all I meant.

I think there would be players unwilling to sign up, but would change there mind if the price is high enough. That's why I like the current form better.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
October 26 2011 16:37 GMT
#113
I'm on a Skype call with Xavi right now. Will be posting all my thoughts as soon as I'm done.
TheSwamp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1497 Posts
October 26 2011 16:38 GMT
#114
There's no way I'm giving some random site my info. If you want to, that's on you. What if this person is just waiting for a sufficient amount of credit card/paypal accounts before he makes all the transactions go through. Waiting for the first match is stupid. If this guy is serious he should have a respected member of the community handle the money. Or better yet an actual team/organization. It's a good idea but I would not recommend giving your information to this person.
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
October 26 2011 16:41 GMT
#115
=) be nice mrbitter.
Thank God and gunrun.
Ipp
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States456 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:42:55
October 26 2011 16:41 GMT
#116
Legit or not, the site implements the idea of community funded show matches poorly. Casters are a huge roll in any SC2 event and they need to be upfront about that. I can see a lot of people getting upset if they fund a show match and caster whom they dislike casts it. Additionally, there needs to be some sort of logical sorting mechanism (popularity/cash/hits).

This site feels rushed and because of that I see people getting very upset, even if it is legit and give centrally run community show matches a bad name.
http://youtube.com/RageQuitTV
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
October 26 2011 16:46 GMT
#117
What would be the best way to organise it (probably) would be to gather up players who are willing to participate, and get their to agree to having showmatches (within reason), and then add their names to a list which people can pick from of who they want to see.

Obviously contacting players requires effort and contacts, but once you get the ball rolling it should pick up.
Lots of players participate in showmatches, so if you ask them if they would be willing to be part of such a site, then you have your playerbase set up, which can expand over time, and people who vote on a match would have some confidence the players would play.

It's a great idea, but you need the players to sign up first IMO before you can really start going. For them it's an easy way to make money in exchange for a small time commitment. For the community it's a way to see two players they want to have playing engage in a showmatch.

If someone who had contacts (e.g. MrBitter, not that he's required to, but he's the one who is active in the thread and talking to the creator) got behind it and encouraged players to "sign up" to be eligible for picking, it could really get it going.
HOLY CHECK!
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:48:11
October 26 2011 16:47 GMT
#118
On October 27 2011 01:46 Lonyo wrote:

If someone who had contacts (e.g. MrBitter, not that he's required to, but he's the one who is active in the thread and talking to the creator) got behind it and encouraged players to "sign up" to be eligible for picking, it could really get it going.


Isn't it wonderful, Xavi was just complaining about not able to reach a community veteran to properly vet his concept. I hope they dont' end up at each others' throat.
Thank God and gunrun.
Sc2ggRise
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States607 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-26 16:52:19
October 26 2011 16:50 GMT
#119
On October 27 2011 01:25 Pokebunny wrote:
You can't give power to the community when the site doesn't have the authority to give that power... the power is in the players. If the players aren't willing to play, the site should not be able to advertise them as a showmatch possibility. Even if they're not promising anything, the prospect of a match is false advertisement that draws people to their site for nothing.

I think players should be able to sign up for the player pool, with requirement of having games listed in TLPD (or something of the sort to prove they are notable), then setting their minimum requirement for a match / servers willing to play / etc.


It's a fan site where fans say who they want to see play each other with the most obvious incentive to anyone. There is no guarantee made anywhere saying the matches will ever even happen. If the players aren't interested, they'll say so when asked to play for $100's of dollars and that will be that. It is probably not something that can be set up ahead of time in TLPD since players might be bronze league or never even have played before (e.g. Joe Rogan vs Sundance).

I get the impression from reading through the thread that people are upset this guy might make $10 from promoting fun matches that people want to see. The thread title itself is already a guilty until proven innocent accusation. Pretty lame sc2 community, pretty lame.

Nyovne said it best in his post, IMO
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
October 26 2011 16:53 GMT
#120
At first I thought it was obviously a scam. The site looks too good to be true. iNcontroL vs Nestea or Destiny? Lol
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