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On October 26 2011 22:31 TheToast wrote:
This thread is silly x1000
Yes this looks like it's either a scam or a really stupid idea. But are we going to have a new thread on TL for every video game related scam that comes out? I mean there must be dozens of things like this in the community, not to mention hacks that try to steal passwords/logins for Blizz games. I don't think we need a new thread on every single one.
He made a thread pointing out something that could either be a fun thing for the community or possibly a scam, either way it getting exposure is a good thing because people may not have thought twice (if this is a scam). I was linked the same site by a couple of people on skype and I thought it was somewhat out of the blue also.
But if this is a genuine thing, which isn't too far to believe, it still gets some exposure for an interesting thing for the community to get involved with.
I don't see a problem with this thread at all, it's more of a favour than anything else.
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On October 26 2011 22:31 MasterKush wrote:
Honestly, I am quite appalled at the attitude of people calling this "100% scam" before even giving the guy a chance to come on here and explain himself. I agree that he shouldn't of put the website live until he had some backing from a few players, as otherwise it's a complete waste of his time.
What I can say though, as a Web Developer myself, is that the site is very well put together and although it's pretty basic, it would still have taken this guy a decent amount of his own time to put it together (not to mention the idea is pretty cool!).
TL;DR - Don't bash people immediately without prior evidence and don't donate any money toward showmatches until we know more about it.
Anonymous person on the Internet opens a website asking for for money for 'show matches' without prior making a thread, contacting any casters, contacting the players or giving any information as to how much is required, what the deadline date will be, with the only thing to suggest any credibility being a flashy website, and you are saying we should just trust him with our money?
People are justified in expressing their concerns, if nobody did then others may read this topic, assume it was legit and lose their money. Better to err on the side of suspicion where the worst that could happen is the show matches don't go through, than err on the side of trusting where the worst that could happen is many people being scammed...
He should have undertaken the necessary steps before putting the site up, and if it turns out to be legit then all is good, and if anything he gained publicity out of it.
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Deezer vs. CombatEX make it happen!!!!!
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On October 26 2011 21:46 MrBitter wrote:https://provpro.org/wtf is this supposed to be? The guy says he hasn't contacted players (but he's tried email and twitter) and yet he's accepting community donations. This reeks of scam and it pisses me off. If I'm speaking out of turn, then please, someone put me in my place, but I'm not going to sit here and twiddle my thumbs if I feel like our community is getting ripped off.
Hello,
Creator of ProVPro here. I'm sorry you feel this reeks of a scam. If there's anyway I can ease your concerns, please let me know. As other people on this thread have mentioned, money is not taken from donor's accounts until the show match happens. I also don't recorded people's credit card or paypal credentials. In the backend, I interface with paypal's credit card processing service to ensure everything is done securely and without the need to store CC info.
Up until this point, I have not been very aggressive about trying to contact many players. Before today/last night, most matches only had a $10 bid with the highest pot at $80 (Day9 vs Tasteless of course =P). At that point, I didn't think it was worth the reputation of the site (or my personal self-respect) to spam these players. They my e-heros and I love what they do. The last thing I want to do is annoy them or piss them off.
That said, I do need help contacting the players, namely Day9 and Tastless. As mentioned earlier I've tried e-mail and twitter with no success. If anyone could help or give some advice, I would greatly appreciate it.
Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I live in California and it's currently 6:55am.
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On October 26 2011 22:57 Xavi-avi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:46 MrBitter wrote:https://provpro.org/wtf is this supposed to be? The guy says he hasn't contacted players (but he's tried email and twitter) and yet he's accepting community donations. This reeks of scam and it pisses me off. If I'm speaking out of turn, then please, someone put me in my place, but I'm not going to sit here and twiddle my thumbs if I feel like our community is getting ripped off. Hello, Creator of ProVPro here. I'm sorry you feel this reeks of a scam. If there's anyway I can ease your concerns, please let me know. As other people on this thread have mentioned, money is not taken from donor's accounts until the show match happens. I also don't recorded people's credit card or paypal credentials. In the backend, I interface with paypal's credit card processing service to ensure everything is done securely and without the need to store CC info. Up until this point, I have not been very aggressive about trying to contact many players. Before today/last night, most matches only had a $10 bid with the highest pot at $80 (Day9 vs Tasteless of course =P). At that point, I didn't think it was worth the reputation of the site (or my personal self-respect) to spam these players. They my e-heros and I love what they do. The last thing I want to do is annoy them or piss them off. That said, I do need help contacting the players, namely Day9 and Tastless. As mentioned earlier I've tried e-mail and twitter with no success. If anyone could help or give some advice, I would greatly appreciate it. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I live in California and it's currently 6:55am.
I think the easiest way to prove your legitimacy is to hold a few showmatches with your own money as sites like Gosucoaching.com. This helps to build community trust in your site when they watch the stream/replays and might be more willing to donate to the cause as well if they are impressed by it.
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I appreciate people like MrBitter who are on the lookout for defending our community.
I also appreciate people like Xavi-avi who look to put together stuff like this (now that it seems a little more legit than it did at first glance). Tyler was right when he said that the MKP-to-Orlando thing demonstrates that there's more potential money in eSports than the industry realizes, and it needs to be more efficient at giving fans opportunities to pay for what they really want. This seems like a great potential avenue for that (if it's legit).
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Better safe than sorry, i've not known Mrbitter to mention something like this unless there was good cause to mention it.
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I very much doubt Day9 or Tasteless would want to do a showmatch.. it isn't fair really to have the community donate loads of money for charity perhaps without their knowing and pressure them into it.
There are already showmatches taking place from other sources (like incontrol vs minigun - can't remember the creator) but as much as I would like to see casters do battle I don't think they would agree to it and nor should we pressurer them into it.
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On October 26 2011 22:57 Xavi-avi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:46 MrBitter wrote:https://provpro.org/wtf is this supposed to be? The guy says he hasn't contacted players (but he's tried email and twitter) and yet he's accepting community donations. This reeks of scam and it pisses me off. If I'm speaking out of turn, then please, someone put me in my place, but I'm not going to sit here and twiddle my thumbs if I feel like our community is getting ripped off. Hello, Creator of ProVPro here. I'm sorry you feel this reeks of a scam. If there's anyway I can ease your concerns, please let me know. As other people on this thread have mentioned, money is not taken from donor's accounts until the show match happens. I also don't recorded people's credit card or paypal credentials. In the backend, I interface with paypal's credit card processing service to ensure everything is done securely and without the need to store CC info. Up until this point, I have not been very aggressive about trying to contact many players. Before today/last night, most matches only had a $10 bid with the highest pot at $80 (Day9 vs Tasteless of course =P). At that point, I didn't think it was worth the reputation of the site (or my personal self-respect) to spam these players. They my e-heros and I love what they do. The last thing I want to do is annoy them or piss them off. That said, I do need help contacting the players, namely Day9 and Tastless. As mentioned earlier I've tried e-mail and twitter with no success. If anyone could help or give some advice, I would greatly appreciate it. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I live in California and it's currently 6:55am.
So what's in it for you? Judging by what you write on the site 90 % goes to players and the rest to fees. Stream revenue or what?
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On October 26 2011 22:00 Subversion wrote:day9 vs tasteless already happened bros tasteless won 
yea in the beta. A match now would be 100% better and not just a zealot battle.
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On October 26 2011 21:59 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:57 Nyovne wrote:
This could really use some more info in the OP. At the moment users have to follow the link to get any idea of what is going on but this is just a contentless rant at the moment. Then please lock it. There is no info. Just a guy asking for money. Am I just being overly paranoid?
I wouldn't say that.
We've seen lots of different scams over the years and I would throw caution in the wind as long as you do your research and publish it correctly in your OP.
Donations should always go directly to the players/casters that people are trying to sponsor. If you donate money please don't do it through this method.
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On October 26 2011 23:12 Balgrog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 22:00 Subversion wrote:day9 vs tasteless already happened bros tasteless won yea in the beta. A match now would be 100% better and not just a zealot battle.
Bold statement... Especially since neither of the Plott brothers plays profesionall SC2,,,
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On October 26 2011 22:55 Ryder. wrote:
Anonymous person on the Internet opens a website asking for for money for 'show matches' without prior making a thread, contacting any casters, contacting the players or giving any information as to how much is required, what the deadline date will be, with the only thing to suggest any credibility being a flashy website, and you are saying we should just trust him with our money?
People are justified in expressing their concerns, if nobody did then others may read this topic, assume it was legit and lose their money. Better to err on the side of suspicion where the worst that could happen is the show matches don't go through, than err on the side of trusting where the worst that could happen is many people being scammed...
He should have undertaken the necessary steps before putting the site up, and if it turns out to be legit then all is good, and if anything he gained publicity out of it.
Hello
Before I launch the site, I did try contact a number of casters and players. I even got to exchanged a handful of emails with Destiny, djWheat, and Artosis -- mostly about advice on how I should brand the site. When I say, I haven't been in contact with the players, I mostly mean I haven't been able to contact Day9, Tasteless, Idra, or iNControl.
Also, you are not trusting me with money. The site does not charge you until the show match occurs. Also, keep in mind that I'm using paypal for these transactions. Paypal (and credit card companies in general) have excellent anti-scam measures. If this does turn out to be a scam, paypal and/or your credit card company will cancel the hold your account (remember there is no money to be returned).
I understand that people would have concerns. That is why I'm making my contact info well known. My personal email is xavi.rmz@gmail.com (though adjunct@provpro.org also works) and my skype is xavi-ramirez. Please message me if you have concerns.
I assure this isn't some this isn't just some site I through up over the weekend. I've worked nights and weekends for the past month and half to make sure everything is as polished as possible. I've asked dozens of people for advice both in and out of the starcraft community. This is very much a labor of love.
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On October 26 2011 23:15 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 23:12 Balgrog wrote:On October 26 2011 22:00 Subversion wrote:day9 vs tasteless already happened bros tasteless won yea in the beta. A match now would be 100% better and not just a zealot battle. Bold statement... Especially since neither of the Plott brothers plays profesionall SC2,,,
I don't think it's that bold of a statement, the beta showmatch wasn't that interesting because it was the beta, not many builds were well refined and well known. Also they don't have to be pro gamers to provide a good show match, they both know a wide variety of builds now and therefore all he's stating is that the show match will be more interesting because of that.
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On October 26 2011 23:16 Xavi-avi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 22:55 Ryder. wrote:
Anonymous person on the Internet opens a website asking for for money for 'show matches' without prior making a thread, contacting any casters, contacting the players or giving any information as to how much is required, what the deadline date will be, with the only thing to suggest any credibility being a flashy website, and you are saying we should just trust him with our money?
People are justified in expressing their concerns, if nobody did then others may read this topic, assume it was legit and lose their money. Better to err on the side of suspicion where the worst that could happen is the show matches don't go through, than err on the side of trusting where the worst that could happen is many people being scammed...
He should have undertaken the necessary steps before putting the site up, and if it turns out to be legit then all is good, and if anything he gained publicity out of it. Hello Before I launch the site, I did try contact a number of casters and players. I even got to exchanged a handful of emails with Destiny, djWheat, and Artosis -- mostly about advice on how I should brand the site. When I say, I haven't been in contact with the players, I mostly mean I haven't been able to contact Day9, Tasteless, Idra, or iNControl. Also, you are not trusting me with money. The site does not charge you until the show match occurs. Also, keep in mind that I'm using paypal for these transactions. Paypal (and credit card companies in general) have excellent anti-scam measures. If this does turn out to be a scam, paypal and/or your credit card company will cancel the hold your account (remember there is no money to be returned). I understand that people would have concerns. That is why I'm making my contact info well known. My personal email is xavi.rmz@gmail.com (though adjunct@provpro.org also works) and my skype is xavi-ramirez. Please message me if you have concerns. I assure this isn't some this isn't just some site I through up over the weekend. I've worked nights and weekends for the past month and half to make sure everything is as polished as possible. I've asked dozens of people for advice both in and out of the starcraft community. This is very much a labor of love.
Just curious... you said you live in California but your website WHOIS says you live in Massachusetts. I called the address you have registered to your domain and the residents said they had no idea who you were.
Just looking for clarification.
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On October 26 2011 21:46 MrBitter wrote:
There are countless avenues through which to do this legitimately.
Please let me know what these legitimate ways are. I know the best way to promote this is via and SC2 pro-gamer, but they're extremely busy and IME hard to get in contact with. I was hoping to get a reply from Day9 or Tasteless before the site got post on TL, but unfortunately that's not what happened...
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On October 26 2011 23:21 Xavi-avi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 21:46 MrBitter wrote:
There are countless avenues through which to do this legitimately.
Please let me know what these legitimate ways are. I know the best way to promote this is via and SC2 pro-gamer, but they're extremely busy and IME hard to get in contact with. I was hoping to get a reply from Day9 or Tasteless before the site got post on TL, but unfortunately that's not what happened...
Day[9] and Tasteless are probably two of the most difficult people in e-sports to contact by virtue of the fact that they're always so busy with their own content.
You said you've been in talks with Artosis. Getting his seal of approval immediately legitimizes your product.
The same can be said of Destiny, and iNcontroL, and of any of the other pros you've already mentioned.
GosuCoaching is an established organization with a legitimate history in the community. Talking to them is another way to move forward with something like this.
TeamLiquid is the pillar on which our community is built. Message any of the mods here and they will either tell you how they can help legitimize your idea, or put you in touch with someone that can.
The same can be said of people associated with MLG (JP, Slasher, etc.), Twitch (Wheat), IGN (CatsPJs), ESL (me), and so forth and so on forever.
Your idea is excellent. The community loves SC2. The community loves supporting SC2. Why not give them means to do it directly?
Fug'n-A.
I don't want to sound like I'm trying to mess that up.
But asking people for money (1), asking people for money over the internet (2), asking people for money anonymously (3), with a proxy address (4), while collecting credit card numbers (5), without any backing from anyone legitimate in the community is enough for me to question the whole project.
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You'd have to be pretty stupid to give this guy money.
He may be legit, but from my point of view this seems to be at best a delusional guy with no means of making any of this happen.
At the very least he has the ability to scam the people who donated - "Note: You won't be charged until the match takes place." is something you have to take his word for. And even if you go through PayPal, it's not like PayPal knows when the showmatch goes live, so he'll have to manually charge you.
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On October 26 2011 22:07 chambertin wrote:
IMO this is the situation:
A well-intentioned guy has gone ahead with an idea he had that he thought would be cool. He made a pretty flashy website that he has begun to advertise. However, he has also jumped the gun rather gravely. He has admitted to not having contacted players or casters previously to asking for donations. On the other hand, he appears not to be charging until the showmatches actually take place. This suggests it is not a scam. Thus I suspect either:
a) he is just well intentioned but rather ignorant of the fact that smoke without substance is not viable as a service/product.
b) he has put up the site because he has had trouble getting into contact with players and hopes that it generates enough publicity/notoriety that it will afford him the power to get in touch with said people.
If I had to pick, I'd say I'm more in column A, kinda. What bothers me about the statement is that it implies that I'm trying to make this a business. I am not. I'm only take a 10% cut of the prize pool, half of which goes directly to paypal fees. The other half goes to words towards server costs and more paypal fees (there's a monthly fee). Basically around $2000 would have to flow through the site each month before I can break even.
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On October 26 2011 23:19 Serejai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2011 23:16 Xavi-avi wrote:On October 26 2011 22:55 Ryder. wrote:
Anonymous person on the Internet opens a website asking for for money for 'show matches' without prior making a thread, contacting any casters, contacting the players or giving any information as to how much is required, what the deadline date will be, with the only thing to suggest any credibility being a flashy website, and you are saying we should just trust him with our money?
People are justified in expressing their concerns, if nobody did then others may read this topic, assume it was legit and lose their money. Better to err on the side of suspicion where the worst that could happen is the show matches don't go through, than err on the side of trusting where the worst that could happen is many people being scammed...
He should have undertaken the necessary steps before putting the site up, and if it turns out to be legit then all is good, and if anything he gained publicity out of it. Hello Before I launch the site, I did try contact a number of casters and players. I even got to exchanged a handful of emails with Destiny, djWheat, and Artosis -- mostly about advice on how I should brand the site. When I say, I haven't been in contact with the players, I mostly mean I haven't been able to contact Day9, Tasteless, Idra, or iNControl. Also, you are not trusting me with money. The site does not charge you until the show match occurs. Also, keep in mind that I'm using paypal for these transactions. Paypal (and credit card companies in general) have excellent anti-scam measures. If this does turn out to be a scam, paypal and/or your credit card company will cancel the hold your account (remember there is no money to be returned). I understand that people would have concerns. That is why I'm making my contact info well known. My personal email is xavi.rmz@gmail.com (though adjunct@provpro.org also works) and my skype is xavi-ramirez. Please message me if you have concerns. I assure this isn't some this isn't just some site I through up over the weekend. I've worked nights and weekends for the past month and half to make sure everything is as polished as possible. I've asked dozens of people for advice both in and out of the starcraft community. This is very much a labor of love. Just curious... you said you live in California but your website WHOIS says you live in Massachusetts. I called the address you have registered to your domain and the residents said they had no idea who you were. Just looking for clarification.
Hmm, I thought I updated my whois info.
I live is Massachusetts for 8 years. I only recently moved to California for a job change. Check out my resume and linkedin for more info:
- http://xavi.co/resume
- http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=26181837
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EPT
