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first of all:
http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=23622¤tpage=2#29
I think that ghosts are severely underrated. Most of the objections to ghosts have to do with one of the following:
1.) Gas
2.) Micro
The argument is that no one will have the micro to be able to do a ghost vs carrier push, and that ghosts are a waste of gas. However, if each ghost locked down just one carrier, they've just killed double their value in units. I don't see how locking down carriers is difficult, especially when the toss player has just 5-6, and is harassing your expos etc.
First of all, carriers are ENORMOUS targets. Interceptors rarely fly over them, so you're not going to accidently lock one down. It can be more difficult when they're stacked, but 12 ghosts will be able to get at least 5-6, depending on skill of micro. You have to hotkey your ghosts from 1-0, but usually it's worth the inconvenience. Being able to press 1l2l3l4l5l6l7l8l9l0l is probably the most difficult part, but I've learned to do this in a little more than one second
just from practicing pregame (1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a0a).
Anyways, I'm not the greatest player, but I'd like to start this discussion again.
p.s. i have a demo replay of me locking down 12 carriers with 6 ghosts on a test map, where can I upload?
p.s.s. i also have an example of this in a real game.
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well maybe u cna upload it on gosureplys.net, and if u want to check some lockdown stuff, check boxers replay pack or his lockdown pack too 
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imo ghosts really rock vs heavy carrier toss
and its not that hard to do.the problem is that normally u dont have the tech and vs evrything else than carrs they suck.
but if u already have acad ,sf and ur confident with ur cloning/speed/micro whatever do it
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Sweden33719 Posts
I use them if I have a solid eco sometimes :o You dont need to key them, just clone by scanning carriers and sending them from afar ;>
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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 30 2005 12:58 SainT wrote:well maybe u cna upload it on gosureplys.net, and if u want to check some lockdown stuff, check boxers replay pack or his lockdown pack too
Lockdown pack?
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No one will argue that they don't have potential. Most people just don't want to go out of their way for ghost tech and then micro'ing them.
IMO they are pretty useful, either for nukes or lockdown, mostly because protoss aren't used to dealing with them.
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It's not going out of the way. You should already have a sci fac. for upgrades, and it's just 2-3 rax away for ghost production. Did I mention that ghosts are also the be-all end-all of arbitors and shuttles?
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I don't think so much ghosts are under-rated, but they are certainly under-used.
Theoretically they would serve ideally against BC's and Carriers, and I guess even Drop shuttles. Personally, I feel I overlook them, because simply they aren't the conventional way of playing, and since I haven't used them in the past, I feel it to be somewhat of a risk. Also, considering the efffort placed in buid/tech time/resources (e.g. sight range, lockdown, build ghost) in obtaining functional ghosts, and then the probability of messing up the micro, otherwise making the effort seemingly futile, it would indeed put you back quite abit in the game.
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I find its generally better to invest the gas that would be needed for ghost on upgrades
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On May 30 2005 13:06 bburn wrote:
I find its generally better to invest the gas that would be needed for ghost on upgrades
That's like saying, "I would rather sacrifice my tank production for upgrades." Keep in mind that carriers are 350 min, 250 gas. If you can use ghosts efficiently (and as I've said, it's NOT hard at all), then your single ghost will be doing damage 3-4 times his value. That allows you to sacrifice goliath or tank production for upgrades.
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I've said it before... I'll say it again... 3-3 > Ghosts
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I had somewhere a replay, TvT, what was an awesome game. Anyway other T made BCs, and was expoing to 12 on LT. Other had Wraiths + Ghost, dropshipped ghosts to there, lockdowned all about 8-10 BC:s and Wraiths killed all. It was pure art 
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United States12256 Posts
I tried to go Ghosts against a Carrier toss and it failed miserably. If they have Observers or any forward units, they will see your Ghosts coming and flee, usually taking out another one of your bases in the process. Carriers are faster than Ghosts. Ghosts are great against BCs though.
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United States12256 Posts
On May 30 2005 13:19 iNsaNe- wrote:I had somewhere a replay, TvT, what was an awesome game. Anyway other T made BCs, and was expoing to 12 on LT. Other had Wraiths + Ghost, dropshipped ghosts to there, lockdowned all about 8-10 BC:s and Wraiths killed all. It was pure art
Sounds like Boxer vs Chunsang to me -_-
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17082 Posts
What, Boxer vs. Chunsang?
Anyway, I think the main argument is the fact that unless the Protoss goes pure Carrier, Ghosts aren't worth the investment. Carrier/Dragoon or Carrier/Zealot/Templar is more likely than pure Carrier, and other units or another upgrade will be more effective in dealing with the situation.
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17082 Posts
Same time post
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On May 30 2005 13:22 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2005 13:19 iNsaNe- wrote:I had somewhere a replay, TvT, what was an awesome game. Anyway other T made BCs, and was expoing to 12 on LT. Other had Wraiths + Ghost, dropshipped ghosts to there, lockdowned all about 8-10 BC:s and Wraiths killed all. It was pure art Sounds like Boxer vs Chunsang to me -_-
I am pretty sure it was Boxer vs Zodiac (don't hate me if they are the same person!)
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On May 30 2005 13:19 JaySmurff wrote:
I've said it before... I'll say it again... 3-3 > Ghosts
On May 30 2005 13:10 camooT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2005 13:06 bburn wrote:
I find its generally better to invest the gas that would be needed for ghost on upgrades That's like saying, "I would rather sacrifice my tank production for upgrades." Keep in mind that carriers are 350 min, 250 gas. If you can use ghosts efficiently (and as I've said, it's NOT hard at all), then your single ghost will be doing damage 3-4 times his value. That allows you to sacrifice goliath or tank production for upgrades.
Excal: If your goliaths can shoot at the carriers, your ghosts can lock them down. unless you're cloning your ghosts, but that's a really bad way to do it.
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17082 Posts
Camoot: If your Ghosts can lockdown the carriers, then your Goliaths can shoot them down.
Also, I'd rather have 3/3 upgrades than 12 Ghosts.
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On May 30 2005 13:45 Empyrean wrote:
Camoot: If your Ghosts can lockdown the carriers, then your Goliaths can shoot them down.
Also, I'd rather have 3/3 upgrades than 12 Ghosts.
Goliaths are 100/50. Ghosts are 25/75. Ghosts need only 1 shot. Goliaths need many. Goliaths can't cloak.
Yes, ghosts die more easily, but carriers wont have time to manually target all of them before they unleash lockdown.
ok, let me go over the argument with upgrades again. If you produce ghosts, you will need less goliaths than normal. You can use the money saved from less goliath production for upgrades.
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EPT
