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the ability to lockdown 6 carriers is a huge amount given the small relative price of a ghost with regards to the price of the cars themselves.
you will already have a sci fac., + 200/200 lockdown (cloaking isn't neccessary because they'll have obs anyway) + 50/50 covert ops, + 25/75 x12. 550 min / 1150. those 12 ghosts only have to take out 5 carriers to make them worth it (250 x 5 = 1250 gas). normally, they will take out at least 6-7, + arbs + shuttles or what not, even goons if you have good enough micro (done it), if you know how to micro them. you will be able to build fewer goliaths and transfer back to vults faster, thus you'll have plenty of gas to get upgrades.
(you can actually take off about 300 gas because you only need 8, not 12 ghosts)
referring to your post earlier, i meant that you are talking about how to prevent toss from getting carriers, when the thread is about a situation where you're sure toss is already going air.
tfeign is right on with the hallucination, i think. that's a perfect counter for lockdown, but very few players will do that. not to mention the fact that ghosts can surprise the toss player easily, and that you'll probably get his carriers before he has time to research hallucinate/get temps/wait 100 ticks for energy.
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Norway28929 Posts
yes ghosts are awesome and there's no denying that. the main reason why they're not built is simply the inconvenience of building a covert ops, (if there is even a science facility present in the first place) and the fact that normally your barrack is floating around somewhere.
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Sweden33723 Posts
On May 30 2005 13:21 Excalibur_Z wrote:
I tried to go Ghosts against a Carrier toss and it failed miserably. If they have Observers or any forward units, they will see your Ghosts coming and flee, usually taking out another one of your bases in the process. Carriers are faster than Ghosts. Ghosts are great against BCs though.
You should scan like a whore anyways, gols will see the obs :O
+ Ghosts = P is way restricted in how and where he can attack 
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On May 31 2005 03:41 Liquid`Drone wrote:
yes ghosts are awesome and there's no denying that. the main reason why they're not built is simply the inconvenience of building a covert ops, (if there is even a science facility present in the first place) and the fact that normally your barrack is floating around somewhere.
sarcasm? can't tell :\.
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Sweden33723 Posts
No, I think drone likes ghosts
Also, carriers are not bad exalted -_- And there are plenty of situations where they are the superior choice, AND (sorry grot ;o) with the correct timing, terran won't always be able to stop P from getting them.
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Before I started just copying the more effective builds of pro replays, I used to get ghosts mid game and bring them when I cliff a protoss who just expanded to their natural (assuming LT). When the one or two dropships show up, I would lockdown before they unload. This guaranteed ownage of the expo. I've been trying to think of more practical applications for ghosts TvP. What about when you push late game, bringing ghosts to lockdown zealot bombs? Do you think ghosts are too slow for this?
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Sweden33723 Posts
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Norway28929 Posts
adding ghosts with your drops is fucking awesome as hell if you keep them hotkeyed and you are the kind of person who constantly watches the minimap
shutting down an expansion with 4 ghosts and 1 tank is a million times more satisfactory than shutting it down with goliaths+tanks.
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i wonder why ive only seen boxer use them if they are so good..
PS:ghosts rock!
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Norway28929 Posts
because boxer is the only pro terran who thinks during the game.
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Norway28929 Posts
okay then
the other terrans try to think but fail at thinking
I mean of course there are situations where ghosts are not viable/necessary, like if you're incredibly low on gas, although countering a good amount of carriers is kinda impossible then..
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drone what do you mean by inconvenience of building a covert ops?
On May 31 2005 03:46 FrozenArbiter wrote:No, I think drone likes ghosts Also, carriers are not bad exalted -_- And there are plenty of situations where they are the superior choice, AND (sorry grot ;o) with the correct timing, terran won't always be able to stop P from getting them.
that's reasonable <3 frozenarbiter
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Norway28929 Posts
I mean that it's not something people are accustomed to doing, and most people who have played thousands of games find it hard to stray away from their normal way of playing.
it took me lots of games (30+) where I had to force myself to use queens before they became a natural part of my game.. ghosts I'm not accustomed to building in "normal" games so I don't build them as often as I should, even if my opponent is going carrier or arbiter. however if I started forcing myself to tech all the way to ghosts in every game regardless of what my opponent was doing then it would be completely natural for me to do so against carrier/arb as well.
bw is for most players with thousands of games a very automatic thing.
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I think it's all about the simple "pay for something you'll only get in x minutes" thing again.. also if you say "i only need 8 ghosts" the lockdown cost and new barracks cost is really big in relevance to the 8 units that are going to get it
it can be said that some players would accumulate ridiculous amounts of gas during a tvp game and never really use it, but most players like tanks and have all their gas spent
a common scenario for a tank happy player I think is that they are mining from 2 bases during mid game, expand to two mineral only bases because his slowpush passed those expansions by and made them safe, and suddenly drops in gas very very hard and has nothing left
maybe a vulture happy player could conceivably make some kind of use of ghosts, I personally find it pretty unlikely, especially with the huge amount of time it takes after you started production before they become useful, that's really the biggest drawback, the price is actually reasonable
for example drone when you talk about getting an expansion down with a ghost making lockdowns, that's more expensive, WAY harder (i'd seriously miss the shuttle on the minimap when I still played) and less effective than simply putting goliaths up in the first place
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Storm rips the hell out of terran infantery anyhow, no joke 
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Sweden33723 Posts
On May 31 2005 06:22 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I mean that it's not something people are accustomed to doing, and most people who have played thousands of games find it hard to stray away from their normal way of playing.
it took me lots of games (30+) where I had to force myself to use queens before they became a natural part of my game.. ghosts I'm not accustomed to building in "normal" games so I don't build them as often as I should, even if my opponent is going carrier or arbiter. however if I started forcing myself to tech all the way to ghosts in every game regardless of what my opponent was doing then it would be completely natural for me to do so against carrier/arb as well.
bw is for most players with thousands of games a very automatic thing.
Very true  I've been trying to force myself to use Dark archons but then whenever I get into a game I resort to the normal way of playing as soon as I'm put under pressure!
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yeah lots of people using queens for the first time lose them to a bunch of m&m trying to ensnare them, hehe
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On May 31 2005 07:46 GroT wrote:yeah lots of people using queens for the first time lose them to a bunch of m&m trying to ensnare them, hehe
MAKE THE MEMORIES STOP!
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EPT
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