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On May 30 2005 13:03 camooT wrote:
It's not going out of the way. You should already have a sci fac. for upgrades, and it's just 2-3 rax away for ghost production. Did I mention that ghosts are also the be-all end-all of arbitors and shuttles?
u know, why dont we put bicicle tires on our cars? there is less friction from the ground. therefore we get more speed! oh cuz they just wont work! :D
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ghosts basicly suck in every way a unit can suck
they're costly (mostly because of all the tech you're buying, but also because of the sheer gas cost of just one ghost), they take long to tech to, they die easily, they're not very effective, they're not versatile (you have to go out of your way to imagine a situation where they'd be useful), they can't work by themselves and they're as micro intensive as it gets
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United States12281 Posts
On May 30 2005 13:43 camooT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2005 13:19 JaySmurff wrote:
I've said it before... I'll say it again... 3-3 > Ghosts Show nested quote +On May 30 2005 13:10 camooT wrote:On May 30 2005 13:06 bburn wrote:
I find its generally better to invest the gas that would be needed for ghost on upgrades That's like saying, "I would rather sacrifice my tank production for upgrades." Keep in mind that carriers are 350 min, 250 gas. If you can use ghosts efficiently (and as I've said, it's NOT hard at all), then your single ghost will be doing damage 3-4 times his value. That allows you to sacrifice goliath or tank production for upgrades. Excal: If your goliaths can shoot at the carriers, your ghosts can lock them down. unless you're cloning your ghosts, but that's a really bad way to do it.
Cloning your Ghosts is the most effective way to do it unless you want to give up a ton of hotkey slots, which is just not worth it in my opinion. Also Carriers don't run from small Goliath groups, they engage them because they take so little damage. They will run from even individual Ghosts because they pose much more of a threat. Protoss players are much more careful around Ghosts than they are around Goliaths.
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probaly the toss will fly away with the carriers, and the zea+goon mix with kill all your ghosts before u can use them
=/
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u know, why dont we put bicicle tires on our cars? there is less friction from the ground. therefore we get more speed! oh cuz they just wont work! :D
you're incredibly funny and witty and smart!
grot:
you will already have a sci fac., + 200/200 lockdown (cloaking isn't neccessary because they'll have obs anyway) + 50/50 covert ops, + 25/75 x12. 550 min / 1150. those 12 ghosts only have to take out 5 carriers to make them worth it (250 x 5 = 1250 gas). normally, they will take out at least 6-7, + arbs + shuttles or what not, even goons if you have good enough micro (done it), if you know how to micro them. you will be able to build fewer goliaths and transfer back to vults faster, thus you'll have plenty of gas to get upgrades.
i've done the math. they're costly, but so are carriers.
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On May 30 2005 14:22 Kacas wrote:
probaly the toss will fly away with the carriers, and the zea+goon mix with kill all your ghosts before u can use them
=/
why do people think that you're going to send your ghosts away all alone? toss goes carriers because he can't break your land superiority, so do you really think his troops will be able to overwhelm you that easily? if you'd read the thread, i already mentioned that if your goliaths can shoot carriers, then ghost can lock them down.
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On May 30 2005 14:21 Excalibur_Z wrote:
Cloning your Ghosts is the most effective way to do it unless you want to give up a ton of hotkey slots, which is just not worth it in my opinion. Also Carriers don't run from small Goliath groups, they engage them because they take so little damage. They will run from even individual Ghosts because they pose much more of a threat. Protoss players are much more careful around Ghosts than they are around Goliaths.
that's a good point. however, protoss can't run forever. if a ghost + goliath combo can scare his carriers off, then you can defend more easily while running over his bases with your ground superiority. there's also the fact that ghosts will almost always suprise the toss player. if you wait until carriers choose to confront your main force over ground, you might get a few lockdowns. still, if there's any disadvantage to ghosts, you've just pointed it out. you can't really figure something like that out without experimenting. i still feel that ghosts will be able to catch the carriers off guard eventually. they can't hide on high ground or water forever.
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i can see the potiental of ghost in a push with the use of lock down, especially against zelot bombs :D
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For the cost thingy: about how 12 ghosts only need to take down 5-6 carriers for them to make up for their cost: isn't that math a bit wrong because protoss should have more gas than terran?
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only do it if ur pro or in front of obs if u want to make a show
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Why is nobody even mentioning nukes? I saw this rep of boxer (I think) killing 2 nexuses (nexi?) in about 30 - 60 secs with 1 dropship, 2 ghosts, 2 medics, a vulture, and a science vessel with emp. It was nuts.
Nukes are almost never used, and I think they are even more underated than ghosts. I don't think they are a waist of money (as many think) against P (cause of EMP), if you're good enough to use em.
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On May 30 2005 15:14 Purind wrote:
For the cost thingy: about how 12 ghosts only need to take down 5-6 carriers for them to make up for their cost: isn't that math a bit wrong because protoss should have more gas than terran?
he should? besides, 5-6 carriers is a minimum. you ought to be able to get much more.
also, 12 ghosts is much more than you need, unless he has a fuckload of carriers. i wouldn't get more than 8 or 9..
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17083 Posts
Carriers are faster than ghosts. A single Ghost will prompt Carriers to run, while the other units (Zealot/Templar, Dragoon, etc.) will kill the Ghosts.
Simple as that.
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On May 30 2005 13:37 Malmis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2005 13:22 Excalibur_Z wrote:On May 30 2005 13:19 iNsaNe- wrote:I had somewhere a replay, TvT, what was an awesome game. Anyway other T made BCs, and was expoing to 12 on LT. Other had Wraiths + Ghost, dropshipped ghosts to there, lockdowned all about 8-10 BC:s and Wraiths killed all. It was pure art  Sounds like Boxer vs Chunsang to me -_- I am pretty sure it was Boxer vs Zodiac (don't hate me if they are the same person!)
Possibly.
I'm sure most people have seen it before, since it's on Pimpest Plays 2002.
http://sclegacy.com/features/pimpestplays_2002.php#2
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On May 30 2005 14:26 camooT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2005 14:22 Kacas wrote:
probaly the toss will fly away with the carriers, and the zea+goon mix with kill all your ghosts before u can use them
=/ why do people think that you're going to send your ghosts away all alone? toss goes carriers because he can't break your land superiority, so do you really think his troops will be able to overwhelm you that easily? if you'd read the thread, i already mentioned that if your goliaths can shoot carriers, then ghost can lock them down.
I am confused, are you implying you should get the ghosts, after they have carriers, or do you get the premeptivly?
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is awesome32282 Posts
Of course when you scan his carrier tech.
What you just said is like saying in PvZ:
"He may go hard lurker contain so i should go reaver push on him and demolish his expo"
then mutalisks arrive at your base.
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as soon as you see gates, if you can hold your position while sacrificing tank production. if he surprises you, you dont have time for ghosts.
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On May 30 2005 15:57 Empyrean wrote:
Carriers are faster than ghosts. A single Ghost will prompt Carriers to run, while the other units (Zealot/Templar, Dragoon, etc.) will kill the Ghosts.
Simple as that.
Range of lockdown is barely less than the ghost's vision. Ghosts are faster than carriers. Carriers have to accelerate to get to full speed as well. If a ghost is anywhere near a carrier when you lockdown, that carrier is VERY unlikely to get away.
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EPT
