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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 28 2011 01:12 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I don't know how you'd expect 1-1-1 to be nerfed directly. Like, if you move out with mech, bio and air units all together before the 11 minute mark, five of your units explode at random?
A lot of the power of the 1-1-1 is in how quickly you can get the factory and starport out. If you use BW costs/build times as a model and increase factory cost by 50 minerals, factory build time by 5 seconds, and starport build time by 10 seconds, you would drastically decrease the effectiveness of 1-1-1.
On August 28 2011 02:32 tdt wrote:
I use one every game vs Z/ Key is leave them in base/expos protected by cannons otherwise yeah NP, any anti air make them shit. To use them outside base they need about 100 more HPs and 100 more shields in addition immune to NP or no one will use them.
Alternatively, they could just reduce the build/supply costs.
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1-1-1 nerf will fix game i think...  also i would like to know fungel isnt good as before ? ppl who play ptr can you answer it ? ppl from EU whont to know :D hahaha thx
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also i would like to know fungel isnt good as before ?
instead of doing 9 DPS to non-armored and ~11.7 DPS to armored it now does 7.5 DPS to non-armored and 10 DPS to armored.
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On August 28 2011 04:24 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:12 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I don't know how you'd expect 1-1-1 to be nerfed directly. Like, if you move out with mech, bio and air units all together before the 11 minute mark, five of your units explode at random?
A lot of the power of the 1-1-1 is in how quickly you can get the factory and starport out. If you use BW costs/build times as a model and increase factory cost by 50 minerals, factory build time by 5 seconds, and starport build time by 10 seconds, you would drastically decrease the effectiveness of 1-1-1. Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 02:32 tdt wrote:
I use one every game vs Z/ Key is leave them in base/expos protected by cannons otherwise yeah NP, any anti air make them shit. To use them outside base they need about 100 more HPs and 100 more shields in addition immune to NP or no one will use them. Alternatively, they could just reduce the build/supply costs.
lol.
i cant tell if youre some super biased toss homeboy or if youre trolling.
either way not funny.
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Ultralisk
Build time decreased from 70 to 55.
So. Jacked. The cows go "moo".
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What is that picture supposed to be? I don't get the joke at all...
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How long does a patch usually take to hit once it's on the PTR?
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On August 28 2011 06:38 Xaeldaren wrote:
How long does a patch usually take to hit once it's on the PTR?
i have same qestion i cant w8.... simply we need it 
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On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
Interesting contaminate change, didn't think many people used it, let alone thought it needed a change.
uh...maybe because overseers are about to cost 50/50? lol.
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On August 28 2011 06:48 silverback wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
Interesting contaminate change, didn't think many people used it, let alone thought it needed a change. uh...maybe because overseers are about to cost 50/50? lol.
uh....maybe its cuz they didnt want u to be able to contaminate more than twice on one trip, not 50/50
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On August 28 2011 06:50 nanoblitz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 06:48 silverback wrote:On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
Interesting contaminate change, didn't think many people used it, let alone thought it needed a change. uh...maybe because overseers are about to cost 50/50? lol. uh....maybe its cuz they didnt want u to be able to contaminate more than twice on one trip, not 50/50
its the 50/50... lol. If you can make overseers that much and the contaminate energy is still 75, you could make 8 overseers for 400 gas instead of 4 for 400 gas. That is huge and that is why it was changed not because you can do it twice in 1 trip.
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Hellion nerf is garbage, thanks for ruining meching for TvZ and TvP blizzard, maybe you could be a little creative with the solution if the real nerf reason was early game problems but I think it was really working itself out anyway. People were no longer just lining em up.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Some math here.
We all know, that 5 overseers can stop production or any upgrades forever in one structure.
5 overseers - 500 gas.
Energy regeneration is 0.5625.
Contaminate energy cost - 75.
75 / 0.5625 = 133.3 seconds - time to regenerate energy for one contaminate.
Contaminate lasts 30 seconds, so:
133.3 / 30 = 4.4 ~ 5, because for last contaminate (1-1-1-1-0.4) we need another overseer. So we need now 5 overseers for all time contaminate.
But with half decreased gas cost, we can build more Overseers. But what about increased contaminate energy cost?
125 / 0.5625 = 222.2 - time to regenerate energy for contaminate.
222.2 / 30 = 7,4 ~ 8, because last 0.4 overseer = 1 overseer.
8 Overseers = 400 gas.
tl;dr
For full contaminate we now need 100 less gas, but 450 more minerals.
So it's buffed by gas and nerfed by minerals.
8 overseers = 1200 minerals and 400 gas. But also more food.
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On August 28 2011 07:05 statikg wrote:
Hellion nerf is garbage, thanks for ruining meching for TvZ and TvP blizzard, maybe you could be a little creative with the solution if the real nerf reason was early game problems but I think it was really working itself out anyway. People were no longer just lining em up.
it actually doesn't affect mech. BFH kill lings and zealots in the same shots pre-nerf. They just dont' kill workers in 2 shots anymore.
Really wish people would look at the actual changes instead of thinking now mech is useless when it kills the light units in the same amount of shots -_-
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I this is the third time I've asked and I can't believe no one else is wondering -
the infestor is the biggest thing right now so I'm wonderingwhat is the point of the fungal nerf? It still,kills marines and p units the same shots. Maybe its to nerf fg against vikings?
Anyways hydras are vad. I know p are scared of them at times, but the are so worthless. Unless you are going zealot immortal nonblink syalkers without upgrades, they lose to everything except as an all in against weak ffe play like single stargate ffe.
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On August 28 2011 07:14 Belial88 wrote:
I this is the third time I've asked and I can't believe no one else is wondering -
the infestor is the biggest thing right now so I'm wonderingwhat is the point of the fungal nerf? It still,kills marines and p units the same shots. Maybe its to nerf fg against vikings?
Anyways hydras are vad. I know p are scared of them at times, but the are so worthless. Unless you are going zealot immortal nonblink syalkers without upgrades, they lose to everything except as an all in against weak ffe play like single stargate ffe.
It also helps ghosts survive one more fungal
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On August 28 2011 07:14 Belial88 wrote:
I this is the third time I've asked and I can't believe no one else is wondering -
the infestor is the biggest thing right now so I'm wonderingwhat is the point of the fungal nerf? It still,kills marines and p units the same shots. Maybe its to nerf fg against vikings?
Anyways hydras are vad. I know p are scared of them at times, but the are so worthless. Unless you are going zealot immortal nonblink syalkers without upgrades, they lose to everything except as an all in against weak ffe play like single stargate ffe.
I still can't believe you don't consider the healing from the medivac. Some marines healed by medivacs will be saved from death with the 1.4.0 Fungal nerf (less damage / seconds).
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• Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5.
• Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
• Issuing new orders to charging zealots will cause them to lose the charge buff.
• SCVs can no longer repair themselves while inside a Bunker or Medivac.
• Fixed an issue where Drone attacks could be more easily dodged than SCV or Probes.
FINALLY!
The following are WAAAAY over-due changes (although I don't know the break points on-hand, +6 dmg seems better than +5 dmg for the pre-igniter)
On August 28 2011 07:28 Shade_CsT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 07:14 Belial88 wrote:
I this is the third time I've asked and I can't believe no one else is wondering -
the infestor is the biggest thing right now so I'm wonderingwhat is the point of the fungal nerf? It still,kills marines and p units the same shots. Maybe its to nerf fg against vikings?
Anyways hydras are vad. I know p are scared of them at times, but the are so worthless. Unless you are going zealot immortal nonblink syalkers without upgrades, they lose to everything except as an all in against weak ffe play like single stargate ffe. I still can't believe you don't consider the healing from the medivac. Some marines healed by medivacs will be saved from death with the 1.4.0 Fungal nerf (less damage / seconds).
medivacs can keep marines alive for an infinite amount of time already, since they heal at the same rate FG does damage. This change makes it so that medivacs can now out-heal FG on marines (with not much difference though).
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On August 28 2011 07:32 Xapti wrote:Show nested quote +
• Infernal Pre-Igniter damage upgrade decreased from 10 to 5.
• Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.
• Issuing new orders to charging zealots will cause them to lose the charge buff.
• SCVs can no longer repair themselves while inside a Bunker or Medivac.
• Fixed an issue where Drone attacks could be more easily dodged than SCV or Probes.
FINALLY! The following are WAAAAY over-due changes (although I don't know the break points on-hand, +6 dmg seems better than +5 dmg for the pre-igniter)
At +5 to light BFH do 19 damage a shot, meaning that it'll take 3 shots to kill a worker instead of 2, which was the whole point of the nerf, I honestly don't think it's as bad as people think because dropping 4 hellions or running 6 hellions by will still ROAST mineral lines. Also, with a single vehicle attack upgrade BFH will be able to 2 shot Drones and Probes again, making BFH harass in the late game as super effective as they are now.
I don't think it's as big a nerf as the + 5 seconds to barracks tbh
EDIT: in some round about way the BFH nerf may be a buff. I'm interested to see how many hellions Terran players can get ignoring the BF upgrade, get a reactor on your rax and 2 Factories and pump hellions, i'm sure you can get more hellions out sooner and just overrun your enemy, this of course will delay tech ALOT without tech labs, but worth a try imo
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EPT
