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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 28 2011 01:24 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:22 Griffith` wrote:On August 28 2011 01:15 radiantshadow92 wrote:On August 28 2011 01:12 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 27 2011 22:57 bole wrote:hey ppl is 1-1-1 nerfed ? in 1.4 ?..... if its not i think it should simply its to hard to stop..  as toss.. I don't know how you'd expect 1-1-1 to be nerfed directly. Like, if you move out with mech, bio and air units all together before the 11 minute mark, five of your units explode at random? The 5 second barracks build time change is a nerf to all Terran builds, and the Immortal range buff will help toss deal with tanks better. Other than that, I don't know if any of the patch fixes have any real impact on the 1-1-1. Which is good - I hate the 1-1-1 push at the moment, but I would hate for Blizzard to come along and change the rules of the game based on the build of the week. Toss will figure out a good response, the metagame will shift, we'll all look back and laugh at how we thought the 1-1-1 was impossible to hold. Or it will turn out after a while that there really isn't a solution (which I doubt) and the game will be patched accordingly. tank splash damage has been nerfed because GS now works on it. All of this together should nullify the 1-1-1 Pretty much this, Hellions are horrible against zealots now. Tanks are horrible against guardian shield (the damage reduction is actually HUGE) 8.75 lowest radii splash -> 6.75, an effective 23% decrease in damage. In addition, Immortals now have increased range. R.I.P. Mech It's true and so sad. Why does blizzard hate mech so hard? The hellion nerf affects only zealots. They will still roster probes / scv's / drones. This blueflame hellion nerf is just a hard terran mech nerf. I guess bio is the only thing we will see in the future. Poor goody...
I think goody will just make more hellions tbh, doesn't change the fact the nerf will seriously hurt mech play. Its like David Kim looks at the numbers and sees Terrans are actually making units that don't come from the barracks and says "WHAT? can't have that! nerfed the thor and tank already... time for the hellion!"
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United States1466 Posts
On August 28 2011 01:22 Griffith` wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:15 radiantshadow92 wrote:On August 28 2011 01:12 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 27 2011 22:57 bole wrote:hey ppl is 1-1-1 nerfed ? in 1.4 ?..... if its not i think it should simply its to hard to stop.. as toss.. I don't know how you'd expect 1-1-1 to be nerfed directly. Like, if you move out with mech, bio and air units all together before the 11 minute mark, five of your units explode at random? The 5 second barracks build time change is a nerf to all Terran builds, and the Immortal range buff will help toss deal with tanks better. Other than that, I don't know if any of the patch fixes have any real impact on the 1-1-1. Which is good - I hate the 1-1-1 push at the moment, but I would hate for Blizzard to come along and change the rules of the game based on the build of the week. Toss will figure out a good response, the metagame will shift, we'll all look back and laugh at how we thought the 1-1-1 was impossible to hold. Or it will turn out after a while that there really isn't a solution (which I doubt) and the game will be patched accordingly. tank splash damage has been nerfed because GS now works on it. All of this together should nullify the 1-1-1 Pretty much this, Hellions are horrible against zealots now. Tanks are horrible against guardian shield (the damage reduction is actually HUGE) 8.75 lowest radii splash -> 6.75, an effective 23% decrease in damage PER UNIT. 17.5->15.5 in the second radii. In addition, Immortals now have increased range. R.I.P. Mech Its just this patch does NOTHING to help Terrans ungodly awful late game. Sigh
Terran's lategame in PvT is the only bad lategame for terran. But I feel like with good viking and ghost usage until you can get some BCs out you could take down toss. In the GSL good ghost play has been messing up lots of terrans
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On August 28 2011 01:09 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 00:49 Ryder. wrote:
I think it's funny how terrans are complaining about blue flame and saying stuff like 'hellions should cost 75 minerals' or 'blue flame research should cost less'. Cause, you know, when voidray speed upgrade was removed as compensation void rays were buffed? Or when amulet was removed, HTs/storm was buffed? I bet if toss had been saying that these units should have received a counter-buff Terrans would be laughing their socks off... i believe the voidray was buffed, at least the damage was changed in a way that i think was beneficial, apart from that lowering the cost of the blueflameupgrade would really be the only thing that would make sense to me, because its 50% less worth now.
The Void Ray damage was actually nerfed significantly (from 25 vs Armored to 16), with a slight recompense of +20% vs Massive, but that's hardly enough to make up for the lost damage. I do not believe the Void Ray has ever received a buff of any kind.
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How about thor, tank and ghost. Add some marines or marauders too. Ghost help Terran in every single PvT. I don't think late game Terran can beat toss w/o ghost. So time to mass ghost perharp ?
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awesome patch!!!!!
It's about time us toss players got some useful units besides colossus and HT's and voidrays. We really need more options!
hellion nerf is great as well, I always getting owned by hellions and now i know they we totally OP. gj blizzard but best of all if infestor nerf i mean fungal growth dps is insane and so annoying vs my voidrays but now i can waste zergs broodlord np i think XD.
i dont think warp prisms will be useful though, hopefully bilzz will give us some decent harass options in hots.
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On August 25 2011 10:17 Ksi wrote:
The preigniter upgrade really isn't worth 150/150 now though. They should've reduced its cost to 100/100.
Still seems totally worth it to me. I mean not something you rush towards as you will still kill workers in the same number of shots whether you have blue flame or not. (however you should still 2 shot lings)
Think of it as a faster and cheaper way to get two weapons upgrades for your hellions. I mean they are mainly there to fight light units anyway so the fact that it doesn't help out against armored units is kind of irrelevant.
The purpose I'm sure is only to delay the two shotting of workers with a side effect of helping zealots and hydras a little bit. (that is if you even decided hydras were useful  )
On August 25 2011 10:18 Bortlett wrote:Fake, no change to the bunker . Thank god for the new privacy options.
ROFL
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On August 28 2011 01:49 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:22 Griffith` wrote:On August 28 2011 01:15 radiantshadow92 wrote:On August 28 2011 01:12 AmericanUmlaut wrote:On August 27 2011 22:57 bole wrote:hey ppl is 1-1-1 nerfed ? in 1.4 ?..... if its not i think it should simply its to hard to stop.. as toss.. I don't know how you'd expect 1-1-1 to be nerfed directly. Like, if you move out with mech, bio and air units all together before the 11 minute mark, five of your units explode at random? The 5 second barracks build time change is a nerf to all Terran builds, and the Immortal range buff will help toss deal with tanks better. Other than that, I don't know if any of the patch fixes have any real impact on the 1-1-1. Which is good - I hate the 1-1-1 push at the moment, but I would hate for Blizzard to come along and change the rules of the game based on the build of the week. Toss will figure out a good response, the metagame will shift, we'll all look back and laugh at how we thought the 1-1-1 was impossible to hold. Or it will turn out after a while that there really isn't a solution (which I doubt) and the game will be patched accordingly. tank splash damage has been nerfed because GS now works on it. All of this together should nullify the 1-1-1 Pretty much this, Hellions are horrible against zealots now. Tanks are horrible against guardian shield (the damage reduction is actually HUGE) 8.75 lowest radii splash -> 6.75, an effective 23% decrease in damage PER UNIT. 17.5->15.5 in the second radii. In addition, Immortals now have increased range. R.I.P. Mech Its just this patch does NOTHING to help Terrans ungodly awful late game. Sigh Terran's lategame in PvT is the only bad lategame for terran. But I feel like with good viking and ghost usage until you can get some BCs out you could take down toss. In the GSL good ghost play has been messing up lots of terrans
I feel like TvZ is much more difficult lategame, especially on large maps where you cant just split the map.
TvP is manageable with mass ghosts and good control. These changes just mean that we are pigeonholed further into the MMM/viking/ghost style, which isnt the end of the world but does make terran gameplay more boring.
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On August 28 2011 01:57 pedalpusher wrote:
awesome patch!!!!!
It's about time us toss players got some useful units besides colossus and HT's and voidrays. We really need more options!
hellion nerf is great as well, I always getting owned by hellions and now i know they we totally OP. gj blizzard but best of all if infestor nerf i mean fungal growth dps is insane and so annoying vs my voidrays but now i can waste zergs broodlord np i think XD.
i dont think warp prisms will be useful though, hopefully bilzz will give us some decent harass options in hots.
From your post history, you're a zerg player who usually has a much better syntax than this and complains about protoss.
So yeah, thank you for this contribution.
Edit: And thank you for this brilliant imitation of all protoss users.
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Just noticed something about the seeker change
The missle (according to the speed listed on liquipedia) is now .0001 slower than the stalker that seems like quite the change. I have some comps I want to try out with ravens now but we shall see if it is worth it
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On August 27 2011 15:01 RaQIl wrote:
apart from the stalker blink change and hellion pre-igniter I don't like these changes.
I mean if Blizzard want to make reaches less effective they just need to nerf them and not buff the immortal and if they are trying to change it for PvP, then just make blink research tier 3 and put it into dark shrine or something like that.
The mothership is a joke, I mean at least make it so that it can't be taken by neural parasite, otherwise what is the point.
I use one every game vs Z/ Key is leave them in base/expos protected by cannons otherwise yeah NP, any anti air make them shit. To use them outside base they need about 100 more HPs and 100 more shields in addition immune to NP or no one will use them.
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On August 28 2011 01:09 Naphal wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 00:49 Ryder. wrote:
I think it's funny how terrans are complaining about blue flame and saying stuff like 'hellions should cost 75 minerals' or 'blue flame research should cost less'. Cause, you know, when voidray speed upgrade was removed as compensation void rays were buffed? Or when amulet was removed, HTs/storm was buffed? I bet if toss had been saying that these units should have received a counter-buff Terrans would be laughing their socks off... i believe the voidray was buffed, at least the damage was changed in a way that i think was beneficial, apart from that lowering the cost of the blueflameupgrade would really be the only thing that would make sense to me, because its 50% less worth now.
Youd be wrong. VR used to do 41 DPS now does 26 DPS. Took waaay less time to destroy hatches and bunkers, nerfed the hell out of 3 gate VR. Before they could catch Vikings or run from them as the case may be. Now Protoss has no air unit that is cost effective vs viking even the "air superiority fighter" phoenix..
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On August 28 2011 02:44 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:09 Naphal wrote:On August 28 2011 00:49 Ryder. wrote:
I think it's funny how terrans are complaining about blue flame and saying stuff like 'hellions should cost 75 minerals' or 'blue flame research should cost less'. Cause, you know, when voidray speed upgrade was removed as compensation void rays were buffed? Or when amulet was removed, HTs/storm was buffed? I bet if toss had been saying that these units should have received a counter-buff Terrans would be laughing their socks off... i believe the voidray was buffed, at least the damage was changed in a way that i think was beneficial, apart from that lowering the cost of the blueflameupgrade would really be the only thing that would make sense to me, because its 50% less worth now. Youd be wrong. VR used to do 41 DPS now does 26 DPS. Took waaay less time to destroy hatches and bunkers, nerfed the hell out of 3 gate VR. Before they could catch Vikings or run from them as the case may be. Now Protoss has no air unit that is cost effective vs viking even the "air superiority fighter" phoenix..
Considering Vikings are also "air superiority fighter" units and that the phoenix and viking are roughly equal in combat prowess, I don't think that's an issue.
Phoenix are faster, can lift units, and have more health while vikings can go to assault mode (basically useless in TvP) and have longer range.
Tit-for-tat.
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On August 28 2011 02:44 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:09 Naphal wrote:On August 28 2011 00:49 Ryder. wrote:
I think it's funny how terrans are complaining about blue flame and saying stuff like 'hellions should cost 75 minerals' or 'blue flame research should cost less'. Cause, you know, when voidray speed upgrade was removed as compensation void rays were buffed? Or when amulet was removed, HTs/storm was buffed? I bet if toss had been saying that these units should have received a counter-buff Terrans would be laughing their socks off... i believe the voidray was buffed, at least the damage was changed in a way that i think was beneficial, apart from that lowering the cost of the blueflameupgrade would really be the only thing that would make sense to me, because its 50% less worth now. Youd be wrong. VR used to do 41 DPS now does 26 DPS. Took waaay less time to destroy hatches and bunkers, nerfed the hell out of 3 gate VR. Before they could catch Vikings or run from them as the case may be. Now Protoss has no air unit that is cost effective vs viking even the "air superiority fighter" phoenix..
Phoenix beats Viking 1 on 1...meaning you need more vikings to kill a smaller number of Phoenix.
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On August 28 2011 01:12 AmericanUmlaut wrote:
I don't know how you'd expect 1-1-1 to be nerfed directly. Like, if you move out with mech, bio and air units all together before the 11 minute mark, five of your units explode at random?
Sounds good to me.
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On August 28 2011 01:42 Bippzy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 23:28 sjschmidt93 wrote:
Well the one thing that makes PvP fun -- the blink stalker -- is now useless as shit.
Yay. The blink stalker isnt useless..you just can't use it for extreme rushes. Immortals arent that much better, you know.
immortals are significantly better now, especially with vision reduced. the vision combined with the blink stalker nerf makes 3gate blink non-viable in pvp.
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On August 28 2011 03:41 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 01:42 Bippzy wrote:On August 27 2011 23:28 sjschmidt93 wrote:
Well the one thing that makes PvP fun -- the blink stalker -- is now useless as shit.
Yay. The blink stalker isnt useless..you just can't use it for extreme rushes. Immortals arent that much better, you know. immortals are significantly better now, especially with vision reduced. the vision combined with the blink stalker nerf makes 3gate blink non-viable in pvp.
Speak for yourself, have you even played in the PTR yet?
I go 3gate blink to gain map control and secure a safe expansion, not to attack and end the game. That doesn't really change with the patch.
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The popularity of BFH builds has plummeted recently, even without the patch. I think Blizzard might be pulling the gun a bit quickly, but the nerf itself isn't too huge.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
With blue flame you can still 2 shots zerglings, probes and drones.
I don't understand, why many terrans so over-reacting to small changes. They're extremely small.
In one interview or something similar from Blizzard they're said, that players many times are over-reacting to small balance changes, saying "Now I will never use this unit!!!", but they're mentioned, that nerfed units have still a lot potential, but slighty less effective.
If you won a lot games with unit, that was nerfed, l2p with other strategies.
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On August 28 2011 04:12 Existor wrote:
With blue flame you can still 2 shots zerglings, probes and drones.
I don't understand, why many terrans so over-reacting to small changes. They're extremely small.
In one interview or something similar from Blizzard they're said, that players many times are over-reacting to small balance changes, saying "Now I will never use this unit!!!", but they're mentioned, that nerfed units have still a lot potential, but slighty less effective.
If you won a lot games with unit, that was nerfed, l2p with other strategies.
+ nice you noticed that... also i will add... = thay you dont build 1 hellion you build 4 at list.... so 4 its enaph do destroy eny economy do the job will lower atc like before....
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This is the patch I've been waiting for since a couple months ago.
As a random player shit is going to be weird for a couple weeks but I'm really interested to see what will happen and what strategies will come out.
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EPT
