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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 196

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
Tommylew
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Wales2717 Posts
August 27 2011 10:06 GMT
#3901
be interesting to see how many of these changes will make it through the PTR and go live, thin a few more tweaks are needed but the immortal is agreat step in the right direction.
Live and Let Die!
ToxicFlu
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada10 Posts
August 27 2011 10:16 GMT
#3902
I like a lot of things in this patch but not the overseer changes.
Overseers take 17 seconds to morph, and now that they are so cheap, It's way too easy for zerg to have a detector. Observers take 40 seconds to build (30 with chrono), and missle turrets take 25 seconds to build. I think the best thing for Overseers would be to make it 75gas, 25 minerals but increase the build time to 22 seconds. Every other race builds up detection in advance why shouldn't zerg also?

-----------------------------------------------------
with a 5 second delay on the barracks, i'm gonna kill more SCVs with my probe harass. and probably proxy gates in base too!!
Mess with the best, Die like the rest.
GreatestThreat
Profile Joined May 2010
United States631 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 10:18:28
August 27 2011 10:18 GMT
#3903
On August 27 2011 19:16 ToxicFlu wrote:
I like a lot of things in this patch but not the overseer changes.
Overseers take 17 seconds to morph, and now that they are so cheap, It's way too easy for zerg to have a detector. Observers take 40 seconds to build (30 with chrono), and missle turrets take 25 seconds to build. I think the best thing for Overseers would be to make it 75gas, 25 minerals but increase the build time to 22 seconds. Every other race builds up detection in advance why shouldn't zerg also?


You realize that in Starcraft 1 all overlords had detection? Overseers EXISTING is already a nerf.
"I'm ethereal! My children are legion, serial! They stick to my skin like beloved cysts... I TEAR AWAY WITH MY NAILS AND TEETH AND FISTS!"
Kjeks
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway47 Posts
August 27 2011 10:26 GMT
#3904
On August 27 2011 19:16 ToxicFlu wrote:
I like a lot of things in this patch but not the overseer changes.
Overseers take 17 seconds to morph, and now that they are so cheap, It's way too easy for zerg to have a detector. Observers take 40 seconds to build (30 with chrono), and missle turrets take 25 seconds to build. I think the best thing for Overseers would be to make it 75gas, 25 minerals but increase the build time to 22 seconds. Every other race builds up detection in advance why shouldn't zerg also?


True, but Zerg is altso the only race that don`t have cloak, so in any ZvX matchup the advantage of faster detection won`t give us a edge over our opponent. And Terran actually got instant detection once OC finishes^^
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
August 27 2011 10:35 GMT
#3905
On August 27 2011 19:26 Kjeks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 19:16 ToxicFlu wrote:
I like a lot of things in this patch but not the overseer changes.
Overseers take 17 seconds to morph, and now that they are so cheap, It's way too easy for zerg to have a detector. Observers take 40 seconds to build (30 with chrono), and missle turrets take 25 seconds to build. I think the best thing for Overseers would be to make it 75gas, 25 minerals but increase the build time to 22 seconds. Every other race builds up detection in advance why shouldn't zerg also?


True, but Zerg is altso the only race that don`t have cloak, so in any ZvX matchup the advantage of faster detection won`t give us a edge over our opponent. And Terran actually got instant detection once OC finishes^^


Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me
Emporio
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3069 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 10:41:14
August 27 2011 10:40 GMT
#3906
On August 27 2011 19:35 Jakkerr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 19:26 Kjeks wrote:
On August 27 2011 19:16 ToxicFlu wrote:
I like a lot of things in this patch but not the overseer changes.
Overseers take 17 seconds to morph, and now that they are so cheap, It's way too easy for zerg to have a detector. Observers take 40 seconds to build (30 with chrono), and missle turrets take 25 seconds to build. I think the best thing for Overseers would be to make it 75gas, 25 minerals but increase the build time to 22 seconds. Every other race builds up detection in advance why shouldn't zerg also?


True, but Zerg is altso the only race that don`t have cloak, so in any ZvX matchup the advantage of faster detection won`t give us a edge over our opponent. And Terran actually got instant detection once OC finishes^^


Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me

While rushing cloak banshee or dt will win you the game via cheesing, wtf is a Zerg going to do rushing burrowed infestors and on 1 base and wthe basically nothing but zerglings after he manages to spit out 10 IT and runs out of energy?
How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
August 27 2011 10:45 GMT
#3907
On August 27 2011 19:40 Emporio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 19:35 Jakkerr wrote:
On August 27 2011 19:26 Kjeks wrote:
On August 27 2011 19:16 ToxicFlu wrote:
I like a lot of things in this patch but not the overseer changes.
Overseers take 17 seconds to morph, and now that they are so cheap, It's way too easy for zerg to have a detector. Observers take 40 seconds to build (30 with chrono), and missle turrets take 25 seconds to build. I think the best thing for Overseers would be to make it 75gas, 25 minerals but increase the build time to 22 seconds. Every other race builds up detection in advance why shouldn't zerg also?


True, but Zerg is altso the only race that don`t have cloak, so in any ZvX matchup the advantage of faster detection won`t give us a edge over our opponent. And Terran actually got instant detection once OC finishes^^


Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me

While rushing cloak banshee or dt will win you the game via cheesing, wtf is a Zerg going to do rushing burrowed infestors and on 1 base and wthe basically nothing but zerglings after he manages to spit out 10 IT and runs out of energy?


Yep zergs don't have a early game tactic which involves Burrow.
But don't worry, those cloaked units aren't actually that good.
After 1 year every1 knows the timings in the higher leagues and doesn't die to them ever which puts the terrans and protosses that do it far behind.
Sure sometimes a game will slip through where you forget to make 2 sporecrawlers, but that's ur own mistake :p
SuPerFlyTNT
Profile Joined November 2010
United States145 Posts
August 27 2011 10:50 GMT
#3908
On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
Thoughts:

Interesting contaminate change, didn't think many people used it, let alone thought it needed a change.


I"m sure this has been addressed but theres 200 pages so no I'm not going to read it all. It isn't used much, but if the overseers cost half as much gas, you could see people start to build liek 30 of them and abuse it.
Every time my fingers touch brains.
Kjeks
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway47 Posts
August 27 2011 10:56 GMT
#3909
On August 27 2011 19:35 Jakkerr wrote:

Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me


Burrow is burrow, cloak is cloak, they are not the same as cloaked units can attack while cloaked. If you attack with burrowed roaches, your opponent can still defend himself without detection. And my post was not about zerg having worse/less harass options then P or T, but about why it makes sence that zerg can morph overseers faster than toss can build observers.
Schwopzi
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands954 Posts
August 27 2011 11:05 GMT
#3910
On August 27 2011 19:56 Kjeks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 19:35 Jakkerr wrote:

Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me


Burrow is burrow, cloak is cloak, they are not the same as cloaked units can attack while cloaked. If you attack with burrowed roaches, your opponent can still defend himself without detection. And my post was not about zerg having worse/less harass options then P or T, but about why it makes sence that zerg can morph overseers faster than toss can build observers.


Yes, because not having cloaked units makes holding off cloaked units harder.
Only the dead have seen the end of war
vi4t0r
Profile Joined March 2010
Poland40 Posts
August 27 2011 11:05 GMT
#3911
On August 27 2011 19:45 Jakkerr wrote:

Yep zergs don't have a early game tactic which involves Burrow.
But don't worry, those cloaked units aren't actually that good.
After 1 year every1 knows the timings in the higher leagues and doesn't die to them ever which puts the terrans and protosses that do it far behind.
Sure sometimes a game will slip through where you forget to make 2 sporecrawlers, but that's ur own mistake :p


since when are higher leagues the main reason for blizzard to change anything?
terran has an instant scan unless he's spamming mules like a mad man
toss are vulnerable to quick burrowed roaches if not FFEing / going fast robo
spores have not been completely remove only because ppl use them v phoenix lifting all your shit
ovies/seers are fragile units that die to every fart of your opponents units //_//
and they hold supply, hence when killed, not only does it fuck you up in terms of revealing cloaked
units, but also costs you more larvae, time and ofc money .__.
A speech!?! Forget it!
dbddbddb
Profile Joined April 2010
Singapore969 Posts
August 27 2011 11:12 GMT
#3912
On August 27 2011 19:56 Kjeks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 19:35 Jakkerr wrote:

Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me


Burrow is burrow, cloak is cloak, they are not the same as cloaked units can attack while cloaked. If you attack with burrowed roaches, your opponent can still defend himself without detection. And my post was not about zerg having worse/less harass options then P or T, but about why it makes sence that zerg can morph overseers faster than toss can build observers.


lol you'll probably hate sc1. overlords could detect by default
Shade_FR
Profile Joined June 2010
France378 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 11:15:21
August 27 2011 11:15 GMT
#3913
On August 27 2011 18:14 doomed wrote:
I dont think you will see a PTR server for others before HotS, but that's just my guess.

love the patch though! both balance and the new interface changes.

That's what I thought before seeing this blue post on a test forum a few days ago. It may be not available for this 1.4.0 patch though.
EU Zerg player - Streaming @ http://twitch.tv/shade_cst
Kjeks
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway47 Posts
August 27 2011 11:16 GMT
#3914
On August 27 2011 20:05 Schwopzi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 19:56 Kjeks wrote:
On August 27 2011 19:35 Jakkerr wrote:

Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me


Burrow is burrow, cloak is cloak, they are not the same as cloaked units can attack while cloaked. If you attack with burrowed roaches, your opponent can still defend himself without detection. And my post was not about zerg having worse/less harass options then P or T, but about why it makes sence that zerg can morph overseers faster than toss can build observers.


Yes, because not having cloaked units makes holding off cloaked units harder.


No, but like I said in my first post, Zerg don`t have the opportunity to use cloaked units against P or T. So having faster detection don`t give us an edge, it just reduces the advantage the other races have against Z regarding cloaked units.
Kjeks
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway47 Posts
August 27 2011 11:32 GMT
#3915
On August 27 2011 20:12 dbddbddb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 19:56 Kjeks wrote:
On August 27 2011 19:35 Jakkerr wrote:

Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me


Burrow is burrow, cloak is cloak, they are not the same as cloaked units can attack while cloaked. If you attack with burrowed roaches, your opponent can still defend himself without detection. And my post was not about zerg having worse/less harass options then P or T, but about why it makes sence that zerg can morph overseers faster than toss can build observers.


lol you'll probably hate sc1. overlords could detect by default


Why would I hate more detection? In sc1 they gave the race without cloak the best detection (lurkers was added in BW) which makes sence since they can`t use cloak against their opponents. This is the same thing I`ve been trying too say. Overseers morph faster than observers are built because in ZvP fast detection is more important for zerg than protoss.
stickyhands
Profile Joined May 2011
187 Posts
August 27 2011 11:34 GMT
#3916
PTR patch note:
Escape and F12 can no longer be used for custom grid hotkey profiles.

mfw I use escape to cancel buildings Q_Q
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
DusTerr
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
2520 Posts
August 27 2011 11:53 GMT
#3917
On August 27 2011 20:16 Kjeks wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2011 20:05 Schwopzi wrote:
On August 27 2011 19:56 Kjeks wrote:
On August 27 2011 19:35 Jakkerr wrote:

Burrow is zerg's cloak.
For harassment u have burrowed/dropped infestors + muta's.

Sounds pretty awesome too me


Burrow is burrow, cloak is cloak, they are not the same as cloaked units can attack while cloaked. If you attack with burrowed roaches, your opponent can still defend himself without detection. And my post was not about zerg having worse/less harass options then P or T, but about why it makes sence that zerg can morph overseers faster than toss can build observers.


Yes, because not having cloaked units makes holding off cloaked units harder.


No, but like I said in my first post, Zerg don`t have the opportunity to use cloaked units against P or T. So having faster detection don`t give us an edge, it just reduces the advantage the other races have against Z regarding cloaked units.

yeah, I have NEVER seen Z use burrowed banelings vs T.
+ Show Spoiler +
actually, I've seen it completely destroy and prevent an early tank/marine push and force the terran to scan every time they try to move their army.
Emporio
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3069 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-27 12:00:20
August 27 2011 11:59 GMT
#3918
The main point here is: unscouted and unprepared for cloak banshee and dt will lose you the game. Once those things are in your base there's basically nothing you can do short of cute tricks like trying to manually explode banelings or maybe attack your own floating buildings with a Thor for splash? There's literally nothing Zerg can do that requires detection that will automatically win the game due to the invisible units by itself.

You can argue that no good player would ever allow themselves to be caught off guard and will always have detection in time, but you would clearly be wrong.
How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?
ToxicFlu
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada10 Posts
August 27 2011 12:00 GMT
#3919
They still need to nerf EMP.

I'm sure Blizzard calculated which units kill. But forgot that 4 well placed EMPs can reduce your army to 50%. Psionic storm can't do that. Most MMM will just stim away, Toss has no way of out running a terran onced EMPs have fallen.

Take the game of MC vs Puma. what a disgrace.

-instead of EMP reducing 100 shields, they should reduce all shields by 60%, and not be stackable. EMP should not detect cloaked units also, thats just too much.

- or they can just reduce the size of the EMP. Feedback, only reduces the energy of one unit. EMP reduces the energy of too many sentries & HT.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest.
NeonFox
Profile Joined January 2011
2373 Posts
August 27 2011 12:01 GMT
#3920
Baneling's Attack Structure ability is now a toggle to Enable/Disable Attack Structure. The toggle will determine whether structures are valid targets for auto-attack. This change fixes an issue which caused Banelings to prioritize buildings over hostile units.


Does this mean that when dropping banelings into a mineral line they will target probes instead of going for the cannons if present?
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