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Geovu
Estonia1344 Posts
ZvZ: Counter to Infestor Broodlord is Infestor Broodlord + Corrupter (They are basically the same unit, though) TvZ: I don't pay as much attention to this matchup, but from my experience if you throw in a few banelings Terrans going to go through hell no matter what unit he makes For Protoss, you basically have to hope Zerg screws up. When Destiny (An OK-ish player at best) can beat players like HuK and MC, I mean, come on, seriously, the facts and statistics speak for themselves. | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
--------------X-------------- ---------- X X X------------- --------X X X X X------------ ---------- X X X------------- --------------X------------- Keeping your army in a conclave when infestors are out reduces the damage your army takes from fungal a lot. Like terrans keep their army in conclave when protoss has storm. I'm sure I saw HuK doing this @ Na regionals against that Gosu(something) zerg | ||
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Gatored
United States679 Posts
On August 16 2011 07:45 Thugtronik wrote: Code S player loses to unorthodox Zerg style, therefore style is unbeatable. I like your logic bra It's no longer unorthodox. A LOT of people are doing this now on ladder. | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
I guess they don't realise that FG outranges feedback... - FG is range 9, with radius of 2 (11), feedback is range 9. - A unit that is given an action (Say to cast storm/feedback), then is affected by FG, has it's action cancelled. - FG is gaurenteed damage 36/47 (base/armoured) , storm has a delay before it deals damage - and does 80 if you sit under it for 3 seconds. - Templars are slower than Infesters. Infester can burrow. Infesters can move while burrowed. - FG does not friendly fire. Storm does. - NP is a projectile, but the mana is consumed before the enemy unit is stolen. This leaves the infester with a maximum of 50 energy. Feedback won't kill it - even if you're fast enough to Feedback the infester that is casting NP before the NP actually 'hits' your unit. - FG reveals cloaked units. (So does EMP for that matter). - FG traps air units. Phoenix need to stack by nature (when attempting to kill ground units). - FG prevents retreating of your entire army (read: you will never be able to retreat with your entire army). If you move out to apply pressure vs infester builds, be ready to go all-in with your army - or lose part of it when retreating. - FG doesn't give notification (unit voices, or minimap pings) when cast against you. (E.g FG on your workers). HT's are good, if the zerg is slow at FG (i.e. doesnt make use of his 2range advantage). | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
Zealot/archon destroys ling/infestor/ultra. HTs can 1 shot multiple infestors. Seriously, all infestors are doing is forcing Protoss players not to clump up their army on one hotkey, which is still what a lot of them do. Watch Huk with his warp prism play with HTs and how good he is at spreading his units. Pretty sure HuK still won this series against Destiny anyway, people are going way too crazy over just a few games. | ||
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pezzaperry
142 Posts
On August 16 2011 07:50 justindab0mb wrote: Zergs finally get a unit comp that can handle P late game, what happens?... Protoss cry out "Imba! nerf!!!" lolz.... wow I mean this thread is kind of stupid but this post is completely clueless. Protoss have a difficult time getting to late game because of their mechanics, it's hard to build up that deathball. It's much faster for a zerg to drone up and get his death ball, hence the classical view of "zergs should try to trade armies with protoss". Protoss SHOULD (and do) have the better late game, because they can't do counter-attacks efficiently and can't do drops, they are immobile and struggle to pull through to the late game. IF per-say zerg's late game units became as powerful as Protoss' it would be incredibly overpowered. But they don't, that's besides the point, your comment is invalid. | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On August 16 2011 07:52 vVvTime wrote: Here's some ideas: http://replayfu.com/download/c4zn8h Lots of mistakes on both sides (esp. mine due to not realizing fungals don't ping the minimap, lol....), but the matchup is far more manageable than whiny protoss would have you believe. You lost 129 workers there and died in a final push with the zerg having almost 100 food over you (with infestor roach ofcourse). Not to sound like a douche but maybe you have a higher tolerance for whining? But come on, let some of us vent. Not to say there weren't ideas in the replay or anything. Archon zealot + other gateway units is nice, but I think the zerg was a little slow with his roach warren. And the big battles were handled as well as any protoss could manage imo. Funny how you didn't go for the mass HT that some zerg are suggesting. | ||
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Dman
United States53 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:14 Trusty wrote: - FG prevents retreating of your entire army (read: you will never be able to retreat with your entire army). If you move out to apply pressure vs infester builds, be ready to go all-in with your army - or lose part of it when retreating. Now you know how the Zerg feel about forcefield! | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
not to knock on his skill or anything, but results speak for themselves. | ||
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zezamer
Finland5701 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:14 Trusty wrote: - FG is range 9, with radius of 2 (11), feedback is range 9. And zerg ground army sight is 10. HT one shots infestor. Doesn't sounds like a impossible mission really. + Show Spoiler + yea i play protoss | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:25 Dman wrote: Now you know how the Zerg feel about forcefield! Haha, good point! | ||
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Selendis
Australia509 Posts
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:29 zezamer wrote: And zerg ground army sight is 10. HT one shots infestor. Doesn't sounds like a impossible mission really. Infesters & HT's are not going to be at the front of the army, bar maybe 1 or 2 trying to snipe stuff (which is still a range adv to Infester). | ||
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iSTime
1579 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:23 Xahhk wrote: You lost 129 workers there and died in a final push with the zerg having almost 100 food over you (with infestor roach ofcourse). Not to sound like a douche but maybe you have a higher tolerance for whining? But come on, let some of us vent. Not to say there weren't ideas in the replay or anything. Archon zealot + other gateway units is nice, but I think the zerg was a little slow with his roach warren. And the big battles were handled as well as any protoss could manage imo. Funny how you didn't go for the mass HT that some zerg are suggesting. Well that's exactly the point. When I lose 129 probes because I don't realize that fungals don't ping the minimap I don't whine as if it's not my own fault for losing. It's fine if you want to whine to your friend on mumble or in a blog post, but that's not what the strategy forum is for. I also am not a diamond player who acts as if he's losing because there was nothing he could do (lol? then how come me and every other high masters protoss would crush the same zerg, I mean come on...), nor think that I can't learn something from a replay of a better player than myself even if they lost. | ||
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Trusty
New Zealand520 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:31 Selendis wrote: have you tried mass carrier? carrier's outrange everything and they cost about as much gas as infestors and ultras anyway. Carrier's engage at range 8, NP is range 9. Carriers can retreat and continue fighting up to range 14, but they still need to come into NP range to engage. With Graviton Catapult (Upgrade to make carriers launch interceptors faster) - You can kill an Infester in one volley, if you have a +1 attack advantage - before the NP 'hits' your carrier. Regardless, you're going to have less carriers than he has infesters...... | ||
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iDrone
United States176 Posts
edit LOL Time funny ^^ | ||
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Ninety-Three
United States68 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:14 Trusty wrote: I like the parts where people say HT's dominate Infesters. I guess they don't realise that FG outranges feedback... - FG is range 9, with radius of 2 (11), feedback is range 9. HT's are good, if the zerg is slow at FG (i.e. doesnt make use of his 2range advantage). The 2 range advantage from the Fungal's radius shouldn't ever be able to snag all of your high templars in that little arc of "extra range" and swing the battle alone. You can't seriously make that out to be the deciding factor any battle between armies that have spellcasters. That's just not realistic. Also, 2 extra range with a 4sec ensnare effect and an instant kill (or no energy, which is as good as dead in an engagement, which also lasts for quite some time afterwards) with shorter range seems to be a pretty fair tradeoff. In general, I never understand the complaints about these two units against each other... Honestly, high templar are frustrating if the Protoss player is better than you at micro OR catches you in a great engagement. Similarly, infestors are extremely annoying if the zerg is better than you at micro OR catches you in a great engagement. They're very comparable units with pros/cons each. Basically, there's no easy answer to beating them on either side. Spreading your spellcasters and quickly casting your initial spells is pretty vital when the clash between armies happens. A good concave is the best advice I know or have seen in these thread. Good positioning lowers the effectiveness of fungal and storm each. | ||
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Xahhk
Canada540 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:33 vVvTime wrote: Well that's exactly the point. When I lose 129 probes because I don't realize that fungals don't ping the minimap I don't whine as if it's not my own fault for losing. It's fine if you want to whine to your friend on mumble or in a blog post, but that's not what the strategy forum is for. I also am not a diamond player who acts as if he's losing because there was nothing he could do (lol? then how come me and every other high masters protoss would crush the same zerg, I mean come on...), nor think that I can't learn something from a replay of a better player than myself even if they lost. I guess I came off too hostile. I never said that there's nothing to learn from a replay of people who play at a high level, and you admit mistakes on both sides anyway. Also it's not like I think posts like the OP are quality material or anything but as long as this titanic still floats I thought I'd put my piece in. | ||
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ShatterZer0
United States1843 Posts
On August 16 2011 08:29 dreamsmasher wrote: clearly not true since destiny has gotten knocked out of MLG in the past few events in the first few rounds. not to knock on his skill or anything, but results speak for themselves. Destiny has been shown to crumble when someone aptly attack with a timing before his infestors pop. MLG was a ton of early timing attacks... | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
It really does a great job of stopping any harass by protoss. It also severely punishes any mistake by protoss unit movement. One slip up, and that portion of your army is never escaping. Gives you tremendous threat of ling counters, since you have so many. Is there any composition that infestors don't work great against? You can supplement your main army with them, they can actually be your main army, you can seige a player's base with them, they're great for probe harass, they're great for map control. It's basically all purpose, and I don't know have to worry about tech switches by protoss. There's pretty much no army can catch me off guard, so I do think zergs going this style have it made right now. I'll assume whatever Minigun says is correct, but for diamond to masters players in the current metagame, it's often a pretty easy game for zerg once you get to infestors. Who knows, maybe protoss will discover timing vulnerabilities, and other weak points, but for now I feel pretty confident in my zvp, which is pretty much a 180 from 6 months ago  . | ||
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