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On August 11 2011 17:18 Disastorm wrote:
I think some people already mentioned this, but you have to look at the overall players of each race in Code A and S. I don't know the exact numbers but I remember hearing Terran is about half of both code a and code S, so that means that zerg and toss actually shouldn't have what you would expect (they shouldn't actually be 33% in each round). Also you have to also take into account that Zerg actually had very few players in the RO16 last GSL (they had 4 I believe), and the finals ended up being ZVZ so it would seem that race ratios in Rounds might still not be an indication of balance.
if you look at statistics, the PvT win rate was in july 38/62. that does say something.
the 1/1/1 is still literary undefeated in this GSL season
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Protoss are basically where Zerg were two months ago when everyone was complaining that z are too weak and underpowered. Seems that most of the 'abusive' p strats have been figured out and along with the 4-gate nerf its made it harder for the moment. However I'm sure something will be figured out soon, c'mon protoss players, get to work!
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On August 11 2011 17:23 Demonaz wrote:
Protoss are basically where Zerg were two months ago when everyone was complaining that z are too weak and underpowered. Seems that most of the 'abusive' p strats have been figured out and along with the 4-gate nerf its made it harder for the moment. However I'm sure something will be figured out soon, c'mon protoss players, get to work!
Actually it wasn't even close to as bad, especially since most of the problems stemmed from lategame, and you know what? Zergs didnt figure shit out, they got buffed and toss got nerfed.
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It was mcs own fault he wanted drama with mvp in his group. He is unable to beat both mvp or polt statistics say enough. So next time take a normal group mc.
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On August 11 2011 17:23 zeru wrote:
Like i always say when there's balance whine because 1 race isnt doing well:
I hope blizzard dont touch anything for 4-5 months at least.
At this rate in 4-5 months there will be no Protoss in the GSL.
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On August 11 2011 17:23 Demonaz wrote:
Protoss are basically where Zerg were two months ago when everyone was complaining that z are too weak and underpowered. Seems that most of the 'abusive' p strats have been figured out and along with the 4-gate nerf its made it harder for the moment. However I'm sure something will be figured out soon, c'mon protoss players, get to work!
Zerg didnt just "figure things out though". the recieved massive buffs to infestor and spore crawlers.
seriously, drop the idea that some genious is gonna come up with this magic new protoss playstyle that noone has ever thought about before. its not going to happen. there are plenty of smart protoss players who practice 8-10hours a day in a pro teamhouse, everyday. If there was something that could be done, they would have figured it out by now. the game isnt just 2 months old anymore.
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On August 11 2011 17:22 Jinivus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:16 Itsmedudeman wrote:On August 11 2011 17:10 Jinivus wrote:On August 11 2011 17:07 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I don't understand
i see no balance issue in the late mid game, typically when you would have storm and KA in PvT right now
KA was overpowered, period, and if you don't understand why, then idk what to say 1/1/1 all in IS overpowered, period, and if you don't understand why, then idk what to say. What does that have to do with my post at all? They're at different points in the game. I'd like to see you get out KA and Hts by the time that push hits. Like seriously, what are you even trying to say? Making fun of how you didn't even present one bit of reasoning or evidence for your claims, and no one is even talking about midgame, because protoss cant survive the first 10 mins, without being killed or contained. What post were you responding to that had anything to do with KA?
Umm, there were like 3 people who pointed out the KA nerf on the first page and I was specifically talking about the mid game and how it's stupid to bring up KA when the issues protoss are having are with the early- early mid game. This was pretty clear in my previous post.
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On August 11 2011 17:23 zeru wrote:
Like i always say when there's balance whine because 1 race isnt doing well:
I hope blizzard dont touch anything for 4-5 months at least.
When it is your job to be a progamer I'm sure you would see this differently. I agree that there should be time for the game to balance out but it seems hypocritical when zerg players cried for months and got their units buffed and protoss got nerfed constantly; it doesn't seem fair now that people should say protoss should suffer.
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On August 11 2011 17:07 Let it Raine wrote:
besides terran all ins, which are ridiculously strong in every matchup
protoss is fine
jyp messed up a ton in those games and i couldnt believe drg managed to lose
that said jyp had a few cool ideas, with the dts in main and hts at natural being one of them
Protoss can hardly beat Zerg at high levels anymore and it is being mirrored in ladder at lower levels - I dropped out of masters this week after losing pretty much all my games vs zerg.
I can beat masters terrans/toss but struggle vs even diamond zergs...
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On August 11 2011 14:48 MeLo wrote:
I think PvZ is fine but many Protoss players are struggling with PvT and part of the reason is the KA removal.
You also see more and more early game timings against Protoss (most notably 1/1/1 allin, Losira roach-ling) which pretty much abuses Protoss early game vulnerability where they lack units.
It has nothing to do with the KA removal. Its the fact that Terrans believe that they only have about 20 minutes to win the game otherwise Protoss becomes way to efficient. So a lot of the games come down to 1 base allins 2 base timing pushes or 3 base tempo play.
If you watch MVP vs CreatorPrime and bomber vs Killer in the GSL Supertournament, you will see that even though they were far ahead it took both of them about 40 minutes to end their final game.
Right now its just a meta game shift. Terrans were complaining for a long time about Protoss, will change their play style and adapt.
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On August 11 2011 17:30 GoKu` wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 14:48 MeLo wrote:
I think PvZ is fine but many Protoss players are struggling with PvT and part of the reason is the KA removal.
You also see more and more early game timings against Protoss (most notably 1/1/1 allin, Losira roach-ling) which pretty much abuses Protoss early game vulnerability where they lack units. It has nothing to do with the KA removal. Its the fact that Terrans believe that they only have about 20 minutes to win the game otherwise Protoss becomes way to efficient. So a lot of the games come down to 1 base allins 2 base timing pushes or 3 base tempo play. If you watch MVP vs CreatorPrime and bomber vs Killer in the GSL Supertournament, you will see that even though they were far ahead it took both of them about 40 minutes to end their final game. Right now its just a meta game shift. Terrans were complaining for a long time about Protoss, will change their play style and adapt.
3-19 vs korean terran isn't just a metagame shift. Every variation of this has stomped every protoss variation of defending it. Tassadar went into that game knowing his opponent would 1-1-1. He countered it. He lost. What other all in can you say this about?
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On August 11 2011 17:23 zeru wrote:
Like i always say when there's balance whine because 1 race isnt doing well:
I hope blizzard dont touch anything for 4-5 months at least.
i dont think i have ever seen a single post from you that didnt make me facepalm.
Seriously, the fact that you just judge this situation as "some balance whine" instead of actually looking into it, analazing the situation and decide wheter you think it might actually be op or not makes wonder if you completley lack the ability of critical thinking. instead you seem to be stuck with some kind of delusion that any game made by blizzard is always perfectly balanced and mustnt be questioned, no matter what people think and what statistics and results show. I can tell you, blizzards balance team has screwed up severely before. Look at Arena PvP in wow for proof of that. it was pretty much the laughing stock of ESPORTS
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On August 11 2011 17:23 zeru wrote:
Like i always say when there's balance whine because 1 race isnt doing well:
I hope blizzard dont touch anything for 4-5 months at least.
Do you say this having read the entire thread?
Or do you just dismiss it as whining and completely ignore the content of the arguments here?
It seems the latter has become the predominant view of TL.
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On August 11 2011 17:34 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:29 storm44 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:23 zeru wrote:
Like i always say when there's balance whine because 1 race isnt doing well:
I hope blizzard dont touch anything for 4-5 months at least. When it is your job to be a progamer I'm sure you would see this differently. I agree that there should be time for the game to balance out but it seems hypocritical when zerg players cried for months and got their units buffed and protoss got nerfed constantly; it doesn't seem fair now that people should say protoss should suffer. It's not about suffering, its about figuring it out. All this protoss whine just reminds me of the zerg whine when they couldn't beat deathballs and said there was no solution and kept a-moving roach hydra into cols. Contrary to popular (zerg?) belief, zergs started winning a lot more, and the win rate was increasing steadily since january, when they learned to play better, the infestor buff didn't matter much at all vs deathballs as people think, of course win rates for zerg kept growing after infestor buff for a while too, however that wasn't.
Yeah I agree, zergs magically learnt how to play after a number of buffs and removal of KA…
EDIT: Infestor buffs helped MASSIVELY vs deathballs.
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Polemic:
I hope Blizzard won't fix anything since I'm going to switch to Terran before I hit high diamond/master. To my fellow brotoss I wish good luck, since only luck or an immense amount of skill - where your opponent require less - will win you anything and have fun with the crappiest mirror matchup ever. Oh, almost no positive changes for Protoss since Beta. I'll come back if Protoss gets a Bisu or a re-design.
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On August 11 2011 17:34 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:29 storm44 wrote:On August 11 2011 17:23 zeru wrote:
Like i always say when there's balance whine because 1 race isnt doing well:
I hope blizzard dont touch anything for 4-5 months at least. When it is your job to be a progamer I'm sure you would see this differently. I agree that there should be time for the game to balance out but it seems hypocritical when zerg players cried for months and got their units buffed and protoss got nerfed constantly; it doesn't seem fair now that people should say protoss should suffer. It's not about suffering, its about figuring it out. All this protoss whine just reminds me of the zerg whine when they couldn't beat deathballs and said there was no solution and kept a-moving roach hydra into cols. Contrary to popular (zerg?) belief, zergs started winning a lot more, and the win rate was increasing steadily since january, when they learned to play better, the infestor buff didn't matter much at all vs deathballs as people think, of course win rates for zerg kept growing after infestor buff for a while too, however that wasn't.
Contrary to your belief, Starcraft 2 isnt supposed to be some kind of rocket science where it takes a team of scientists and scholars several months to figure out how to beat a simple Terran 1/1/1 build.
Seriously, this game isnt that complicated (theoreticly) and if you actually allowed yourself to use your brain for a moment you could easily figure out why 1/1/1 is overpowered. But im not gonna bother trying to explain things to you why, cause you are just gonna ignore every single sensible argument and reply with the usual "It just hasnt been figured out kk"
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On August 11 2011 15:57 billiebrightside wrote:I feel Protoss players are winning not only because of flawless play, but because of risky strategies/great mistakes by their opponent + Show Spoiler +For example, JYP just won the ace match because of DRG's fast gold strategy in metalopolis :/
Don't forget the failed 6pool before that!
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On August 11 2011 17:26 quiet noise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 17:23 Demonaz wrote:
Protoss are basically where Zerg were two months ago when everyone was complaining that z are too weak and underpowered. Seems that most of the 'abusive' p strats have been figured out and along with the 4-gate nerf its made it harder for the moment. However I'm sure something will be figured out soon, c'mon protoss players, get to work! Zerg didnt just "figure things out though". the recieved massive buffs to infestor and spore crawlers. seriously, drop the idea that some genious is gonna come up with this magic new protoss playstyle that noone has ever thought about before. its not going to happen. there are plenty of smart protoss players who practice 8-10hours a day in a pro teamhouse, everyday. If there was something that could be done, they would have figured it out by now. the game isnt just 2 months old anymore.
In what games have the spore crawler change been a big factor? And your last sentance doesn't make sense since the protoss haven't struggled all the way since the game came out.
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EPT
