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On August 11 2011 15:57 billiebrightside wrote:I feel Protoss players are winning not only because of flawless play, but because of risky strategies/great mistakes by their opponent + Show Spoiler +For example, JYP just won the ace match because of DRG's fast gold strategy in metalopolis :/
+ Show Spoiler +I think he showed in Game 2 that he has a new style going on. I think it needs a little bit more refinement tho. I can't wait for more people adopting the JYP/Sage kind of style.
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+ Show Spoiler +Now I have JYP to cheer for. I was thinking to quit SC2 if he lost to DRG lol
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If protoss starts winning blizzard will nerf us....Its our master plan to avoid nerfs :D
Honestly thou. I just think aggression was over nerfed for protoss so we are struggling at the moment. It might change it might not. The core problem is we just cant get any real threat out fast enough
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On August 11 2011 14:48 MeLo wrote:
I think PvZ is fine but many Protoss players are struggling with PvT and part of the reason is the KA removal.
You also see more and more early game timings against Protoss (most notably 1/1/1 allin, Losira roach-ling) which pretty much abuses Protoss early game vulnerability where they lack units.
Protoss would never have lost to Terran 1/1/1 allin if KA hadn't been removed. Yeah. Other than that, I simply think that Protoss needs to figure out their shit, that's it.
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There are 6 protoss not 4. Trickster, Genius, HungUn, Sang ho, Puzzle and Huk.
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Or they can all just cannon rush.
Im surprised that GSL Protoss don't do this more honestly. Some of these ultra greedy builds I'm seeing from Terrans in the GSL could be punished reallly hard by a cannon rush. Watching Terrans do 1 rax expands or CC first builds and get away with it just seems like a bad strategy. Often they seem to skip scouting until 15ish supply too. If you did a cannon rush on a map like Terminus or Taldirm Alter I think alot of terrans in GSL would auto lose because they went for a greedy build.
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On August 11 2011 16:02 Beardedclam wrote:
There are 6 protoss not 4. Trickster, Genius, HungUn, Sang ho, Puzzle and Huk.
Fixed OP my mistake on that.
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Well.. I think it's because of Terran. The 1/1/1 is soooo strong when done correctly. You can say the same for Zerg too - Terrans are starting to find that bfh are good against us and we get toasted. The games only a year old. Wait for everyone to find the right groove in their games.
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On August 11 2011 16:00 oskarla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 15:57 billiebrightside wrote:I feel Protoss players are winning not only because of flawless play, but because of risky strategies/great mistakes by their opponent + Show Spoiler +For example, JYP just won the ace match because of DRG's fast gold strategy in metalopolis :/ + Show Spoiler +I think he showed in Game 2 that he has a new style going on. I think it needs a little bit more refinement tho. I can't wait for more people adopting the JYP/Sage kind of style.
It's not even that new, as far as I know. It was very reminiscent of San's game against Nestea. I don't really know why it fell out of style, though.
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On August 11 2011 15:46 Sukari wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 15:40 DarkRise wrote:
I think the large Death ball against zerg kinda died because of fungal or drop plays or early roach/ling aggression. I remember when there was that time where some Zerg player was saying that a 200/200 zerg ball against a 200/200 protoss ball will mean that the protoss player loses like 20 units and zerg will lose all (a bit of exaggeration maybe). But hey, zerg players came up with an answer. I'm sure as the game goes on protoss players will continue to come up with more innovative/aggressive/creative strategies. Maybe? Or they can all just cannon rush.
Well, they didnt came up with an answer. They've got buffed. Infestor change was huge, man. Fungal is so strong. It deals huge amount of damage that you take no matter what (you can at least run from the storm but not from the fungal) and you can use it right after infestors spawn (so zerg version of KA). So zerg players get their storm that disables movement so you cant micro your units and stalkers melt to anything without blink micro.
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when is HuKs group actually playing i dont see it on the schedules at all
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This is a seriously stupid thread/OP.
OP asks for this to "not become a balance/imbalance" discussion, and yet pretty explicitly marks upon "statistics" (of which sample sizes are trivial at best, given patching and their framework for analysis w/o some sort of control), which would encourage "balance/imbalance" discussion.
It honestly sounds like you're just a whiny Protoss player who feels sorry for himself.
Adapt or die, it's that simple. These threads are so pointless that I have no idea why I'm wasting my breath except that your OP actually irked me because of how "hey please don't discuss imba/op guys xD, man protoss sucks looking at statistics i wonder why... xD?".
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On August 11 2011 16:33 PeterHuynh wrote:
when is HuKs group actually playing i dont see it on the schedules at all
16th august)
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On August 11 2011 16:24 Bruky wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2011 15:46 Sukari wrote:On August 11 2011 15:40 DarkRise wrote:
I think the large Death ball against zerg kinda died because of fungal or drop plays or early roach/ling aggression. I remember when there was that time where some Zerg player was saying that a 200/200 zerg ball against a 200/200 protoss ball will mean that the protoss player loses like 20 units and zerg will lose all (a bit of exaggeration maybe). But hey, zerg players came up with an answer. I'm sure as the game goes on protoss players will continue to come up with more innovative/aggressive/creative strategies. Maybe? Or they can all just cannon rush. Well, they didnt came up with an answer. They've got buffed. Infestor change was huge, man. Fungal is so strong. It deals huge amount of damage that you take no matter what (you can at least run from the storm but not from the fungal) and you can use it right after infestors spawn (so zerg version of KA). So zerg players get their storm that disables movement so you cant micro your units and stalkers melt to anything without blink micro.
Fungal starts dealing 11 more damage only to armored units and suddenly it became too strong against protoss?
Here is the fact: Old fungal would be twice as strong against protoss ball because it had twice as much duration and 11 less damage. You probably don't want to stay at the same place for 4 seconds while a bunch of overlords are dropping bombs on your army, what if you had to stay for 8 seconds? Zerg didn't get "buffed". They found an answer.
Here is another example:
Tanks deal 70 damage per shot in beta: Nobody gives a fuck. They start dealing 50 damage per shot in 1.0.3, zergs start whining. It's all about getting figured out, or like mburke05 says:
On August 11 2011 16:35 mburke05 wrote:
Adapt or die, it's that simple.
And, a fundamental difference between pathogen glands and khaydarim amulet: Protoss templars with khaydarim spawn at wherever in 5 seconds and be able to storm wherever whereas infestors would spawn where their eggs are no matter what you do. KA wouldn't be that much of a deal provided that warp tech didn't exist.
KA removal was never the reason why protoss is in this shape.
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Italy12247 Posts
Warpgate and sentries screws over the race incredibly; it's such a bad design in terms of balance that i can't believe it made it past alpha. Because of wg/ff, zealots and stalkers NEED to be weaker than their terran and zerg counterpart; in turn, this means that
1) the race is really really weak to early aggression when no tech units are out,
2) it's hard to harass since a much smaller number of enemy units can take out easily our own small group of gw units,
3) we rely incredibly on high tech units like ht's or colossi, which in turn means that if you don't do enough damage with your first army of sentries+colossi/templars with storm ready you just die.
I think it can only be sorted out with a massive design change, so at least an expansion, and in the meantime we will have to stick to our 1-2 base timings and 200/200 deathballs and hope somehow they still work (which they really don't anymore in really high level play).
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On August 11 2011 16:35 mburke05 wrote:
This is a seriously stupid thread/OP.
OP asks for this to "not become a balance/imbalance" discussion, and yet pretty explicitly marks upon "statistics" (of which sample sizes are trivial at best, given patching and their framework for analysis w/o some sort of control), which would encourage "balance/imbalance" discussion.
It honestly sounds like you're just a whiny Protoss player who feels sorry for himself.
Adapt or die, it's that simple. These threads are so pointless that I have no idea why I'm wasting my breath except that your OP actually irked me because of how "hey please don't discuss imba/op guys xD, man protoss sucks looking at statistics i wonder why... xD?".
What a phenomenal post... If the threads pointless, don't post in it, TL is a big forum you can go elsewhere.
To address your first point, I don't think that the two major divisions of the most important league in SC2 are trivial. That, or maybe you just don't know what trivial means (of little importance/insignificant).
Secondly, When I say dont discuss imba/op shit I mean dont go "Yeah terran and zerg are just broken" or "Protoss is just awful right now." That does not by any means suggest that I dont want a discussion of the protoss match ups right now. Hell, I actually think your on "adapt or die" statement is quite true, but now we need to figure out HOW.
And lastly, I don't really think I was very whiny either, I posted statistics and made statements, I didn't cry. And personally I'm doing fairly well right now thank you, but I'm in meaningless diamond league so my W/L is just that, meaningless.
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On August 11 2011 16:00 tuho12345 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Now I have JYP to cheer for. I was thinking to quit SC2 if he lost to DRG lol
That actually sounds really pathetic.
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Alicia top 3 protoss? You gotta be kidding me.
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Zergs didn't complain during beta because of 2 armor, 1 supply roach...
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On August 11 2011 16:46 ShiFTy_ wrote:
Alicia top 3 protoss? You gotta be kidding me.
There aren't many Protoss to choose from, to be fair ...
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EPT
