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On May 27 2011 20:36 elitesniper420 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 20:34 Vlare wrote:On May 27 2011 20:28 elitesniper420 wrote:
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this. Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas. Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times.
So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now.
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well i am far away to even be able to play a race in a perfect manner (imo you need 600 apm for that min ! ). But for me zerg is the easiest due to their mechanics. Almost no base macro needed, you can't mess up because you got the wrong production etc (well compared to bw the hatches need now constant care if you use queens). Feels to me like terran just without all the base building.
Next in line is toss, shield regen and no setup time for units make toss units really strong when uncontrolled.
Last is terran, the micro heavy race, base management is the hardest, you need workers to repair your army or they will not be cost effectiv. Every unit is either specialized in damage or needs to be microed in battle to be effectiv. Also its best to have atleast 1 more unit type out to conter the opponents composition.
Now the fun part if a terran manages to build themself up, they suddenly are really easy to play, just have to slowly move forward wait for the attack and move a few inches forward. While the opponent really has to micro heavy.
So its really situational and more a unit type of thing. immortals needs you to target for him (if you a move with a immortal and the opponent has light units you just lost 66% damage). Zealot pssh just a click.
still my ranking ist 1st zerg 2nd toss 3rd terran ^^. Terran won anyway because of bw  .
edit: funnyest thing is anyway offracing pros as terrans. and all production gathered together but enough space for the tech labs reactors, but afterwards they notice that they just have build a little fort and some units are stuck in the middle xD. (on fun games though, but still one of the best thigns to happen)
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On May 27 2011 20:40 R3N wrote:
62% Protoss atm.
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2.
Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority.
Highest percent of people play protoss? They arn't the most prevalent in GM? Of course, must be because they are the easiest!!
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On May 27 2011 20:40 Vlare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 20:36 elitesniper420 wrote:On May 27 2011 20:34 Vlare wrote:On May 27 2011 20:28 elitesniper420 wrote:
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this. Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas. Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times. So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now.
You can't ignore the rest of the post just because you play Protoss and think you're entitled to easy ways out. For one, making supply depots is harder because it's not efficient to make them in a straight line next to your buildings like pylons. Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs. Third, you don't even need to make a space for warpgates. And finally, the most important thing is that you don't actually have to micro as Protoss, so not only do you require minimal concentration towards the battle, you also don't need it towards macro. So where does it go? Nowhere.
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On May 27 2011 20:44 StrangrDangr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 20:40 R3N wrote:
62% Protoss atm.
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2.
Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority. Highest percent of people play protoss? They arn't the most prevalent in GM? Of course, must be because they are the easiest!!
I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but he meant the poll. In other words you're further proving his point.
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On May 27 2011 20:40 R3N wrote:
62% Protoss atm.
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2.
Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority.
Just my humble opinion, but I think a significant part of the opinion that Protoss is easier comes from the Brood War consensus that Protoss was easier when that might not actually be the case in SC2.
The problem with questions like this is that it's WAY to general. Easiest in what way? Macro? Micro? Mechanics? Strategy? Each race is "easiest" in different ways, and unless we can get a more specific version of the question, I think we can't conclusively answer this.
EDIT: Also, I think there needs to be another poll that's below this one asking what race the voter is, that should help reveal bias. For example, if 60% of responders play Protoss, they must (mostly) think their race is easiest.
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On May 27 2011 20:44 elitesniper420 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 20:40 Vlare wrote:On May 27 2011 20:36 elitesniper420 wrote:On May 27 2011 20:34 Vlare wrote:On May 27 2011 20:28 elitesniper420 wrote:
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this. Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas. Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times. So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now. You can't ignore the rest of the post just because you play Protoss and think you're entitled to easy ways out. For one, making supply depots is harder because it's not efficient to make them in a straight line next to your buildings like pylons. Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs. Third, you don't even need to make a space for warpgates. And finally, the most important thing is that you don't actually have to micro as Protoss, so not only do you require minimal concentration towards the battle, you also don't need it towards macro. So where does it go? Nowhere.
Elite, you haven't played protoss, have you? You have to rally probes back as well. Pylon placement is WAY more critical than supply depots, what are you talking about? Pylons power buildings and let you warp in, supply depts just need to be placed.
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Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs.
You realize that protoss has to rally back workers right? Probes don't magically return to mining (of course as rallying back takes 1 extra click of the mouse it really is not a big deal).
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On May 27 2011 20:44 elitesniper420 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 20:40 Vlare wrote:On May 27 2011 20:36 elitesniper420 wrote:On May 27 2011 20:34 Vlare wrote:On May 27 2011 20:28 elitesniper420 wrote:
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this. Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas. Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times. So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now. You can't ignore the rest of the post just because you play Protoss and think you're entitled to easy ways out. For one, making supply depots is harder because it's not efficient to make them in a straight line next to your buildings like pylons. Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs. Third, you don't even need to make a space for warpgates. And finally, the most important thing is that you don't actually have to micro as Protoss, so not only do you require minimal concentration towards the battle, you also don't need it towards macro. So where does it go? Nowhere.
I think terran is the hardest race because you have to know so many tricks. Like you said, you cannot build supply depots just anywhere, and only the really good players build it in unique spots like in front of the refinery. And then the noobs are like "But dude, then you can't mine gas!" and then you say "No problem, I just sink the depot."
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Like you said, you cannot build supply depots just anywhere, and only the really good players build it in unique spots like in front of the refinery. And then the noobs are like "But dude, then you can't mine gas!" and then you say "No problem, I just sink the depot."
Every time I see one of the top pros pulling out that trick my heart skips a beat and I remember how awesomely hard it is to be a Terran.
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On May 27 2011 20:46 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 20:44 elitesniper420 wrote:On May 27 2011 20:40 Vlare wrote:On May 27 2011 20:36 elitesniper420 wrote:On May 27 2011 20:34 Vlare wrote:On May 27 2011 20:28 elitesniper420 wrote:
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this. Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas. Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times. So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now. You can't ignore the rest of the post just because you play Protoss and think you're entitled to easy ways out. For one, making supply depots is harder because it's not efficient to make them in a straight line next to your buildings like pylons. Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs. Third, you don't even need to make a space for warpgates. And finally, the most important thing is that you don't actually have to micro as Protoss, so not only do you require minimal concentration towards the battle, you also don't need it towards macro. So where does it go? Nowhere. Elite, you haven't played protoss, have you? You have to rally probes back as well. Pylon placement is WAY more critical than supply depots, what are you talking about? Pylons power buildings and let you warp in, supply depts just need to be placed.
Actually I have the icon for 250 games played as Protoss and almost the 500 win one, so I have played it more than I should have. Supply depots can't just be placed or else they'll take up space in your base. For pylons, you can build enough to take up the area around your base, and then build the rest right next to your Nexus powering any warpgates. Just look at oGsMC vs Thorzain. MC spreads out the pylons then just builds any more warpgates in the exact same way I just described. As for rallying back SCVs, you can't do it the same way as Toss because you're doing it with multiple workers so it's inefficient to press shift right away.
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Protoss is the easiest to play at low level, the hardest at high level, and terran is the easiest to play at a high level.
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On May 27 2011 20:52 Nolot wrote:
the hardest at high level
I still find this hard to believe. It seems as though Protoss have reached their skill ceiling, you really can't see any difference between the play of high level Protoss now, such as MC compared to other players.
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Marauders
nothing
and nothing
looks like terran wins
oh and i forgot the cheapest caster units (gas, since terran has more minerals), that can also fight for themselves with a higer dps then hellions vs light.
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On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote:
Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro.
Uhhh.... you can't just 1A and win the battle unless you were already way ahead of your opponent. Especially in early/mid game, forcefields are absolutely required. If your force field was in the wrong place, or 1 second too late, not enough of them, or too many, that can totally lose you the game.
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The one thing that made me vote for protoss was the fact that they can play extremely passive.
Both terrans and zergs have to work their ass off to hinder the protoss building up their army. Good harass and multipronged attacks are essential, and that stuff takes alot of multitasking. Protoss harass options on the other hand feel almost detrimental, and why would you harass if you don't have to? Just build up your army and defend your bases, your army will be better anyway.
When a zerg or terran beats a protoss, it actually feels like they worked hard to outplay them. When a protoss player wins, it often feels like they did nothing special, just massed up their ball and threw a couple of forcefields.
Yes I realize this is an overly simplified look at things, but theres some truth in it too imho.
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Dumbest thread ever. All races have easy builds and strategys as well as hard ones. Many zergs at this forum I see. Baneling busting and ling + roach all-ins sure do require a lot of skill...
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On May 27 2011 20:44 StrangrDangr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 20:40 R3N wrote:
62% Protoss atm.
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2.
Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority. Highest percent of people play protoss? They arn't the most prevalent in GM? Of course, must be because they are the easiest!!
No statistics point to that protoss is the easiest, but it still is because ppl said so on a forum!
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Protosse on high level Zerg !
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It really depends how "easy" is defined, but in case you are talking from zero (=RTS noob) to Silver/Gold I would chose protoss.
I have quite some friends that started RTS with SC2 and so far the P seem to be doing much better than T/Z., both in 1o1 and teamgames.
in my opinion the reasons are (note: only from what I have observed in the lower leagues):
- very versatile, rather easy to pull of strategy: 4-gate
- easiest base-building mechanic: click and place building and you are done, no idle workers afterwards or need to build more drones
- easier to get rid of excessive resources: just add more gates and spam units
- swiss-army knife unit aka stalker, that can do fine in most match-ups
- less complexity as warp-in is easier to handle than queuing + rally point
- invisible, flying scouts (big deal for newcomers)
- pretty good static defense (covers air and ground), as well as built-in detection
- power Units don't really require micro: e.g. Colossus, Immortal, Voidray and Carrier are cool as they are, even unmicroed, whereas tanks (Siege-mode), Marines (Stim), Cruisers (Yamato) require player interaction beyond a-move
- chrono boost offers higher flexibility and immediate benefits, whereas the additional minerals from the M.U.L.E seem to create even more excessive minerals among lower ranks
- durable units mean that micro-errors don't get punished that hard: e.g. running a stalker army in tank range is more forgiving that doing the same with lings/marines
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EPT
