So I bounce back and forth to and from the Blizzard Forums sometimes and I have come across a large number of threads stating "(insert race) is ez and (insert race) is hard". Then, of course, there will be the obligatory "no noob. l2p. (insert race) is 10x harder than (insert race)." And as there is no poll option on the Blizzard Forums, I wanted to get an idea of where the TL community stands on this issue.
"Easiest" meaning a combination of both Macro and Micro multi-tasking. Try to look at it generally and make your decision.
Preferably just vote in the poll and move on. However, if you have a specific reason to post, then do so at your own risk. I can see how this might get out of hand, so try to keep it as objective as possible. I'm interested in this purely for the statistical data.
Poll: Overall, which race do you consider the easiest?
Protoss (556)
61%
Terran (252)
27%
Zerg (109)
12%
917 total votes
Your vote: Overall, which race do you consider the easiest?
Personally, I would rank Terran as the easiest race. Small characteristics like Supply Drop, a generalized 2.25 move speed, Planetarys and no-cooldown MULES are the basis of my opinion. However the micro requirements of Terran in certain matchups is high (namely T v Z and T v T).
Of course, many think that the lessened micro requirements of Zerg define it as easy. I disagree because of the larva inject requirement, and the uselessness of mass melee units, but thats just me. I agree that the fact that you can catch up on macro with 1 or 2 larva cycles enables a wider range of "all-ins" possible, which allows for more flexibility in builds.
And I'm also beginning to see a lot of "toss = ezmode" thrown around recently, and I totally disagree. The fact that tier 1 and 2 units move at different speeds, as well as have varying ranges, make Protoss more difficult that I think some people are giving it credit for. Micro with toss, aside from Colossus micro, is relatively taxing; having your Zealots in front, or your Sentrys in range, or your Immortal not being blocked by Stalkers can be the difference between a win or a loss.
The learning curve for protoss was so much nicer for me. Blink micro is pretty easy as well as just making a death ball. Zerg mechanics are just weird for me since I main race terran and marine micro vs zerg is way harder than anything I've ever had to do with toss.
Terran will most likely win, there seem to be a surplus of forum-active zerg and protoss players, they're usualy half the population of zerg and protoss respectively in polls.
On May 27 2011 18:37 freetgy wrote: there is no easy race, each race has its difficulties.
Terran just may feel easier cause it is the safest races due to their design. (good defensiv options, cost effective Units)
just because you believe there is no easiest race doesn't mean everybody thinks the same way. but i do believe there should be an option in the polling for there all races are equally difficult.
What means "easy"? Each race has some options a beginner can use. Some consider Protoss the "easiest" race because they offer sturdy units. But if they are killed, it is also hard (costly) to replace them. If a beginner Protoss plays versus a noob zerg, the zerg will lose many more units but still could win the game.
Terrans are "easy" in the way that they are quite similar to common military science fiction RTS game races. Zerg are "easy" in the way that units and structures automatically heal and that stacked minerals can be spent very fast.
Seems like a pretty volatile and highly flammable topic. I have opinions on what race are easier, but they're greatly biased and essentially worthless since I don't play the other races.
It depends on the phase of the game. In the early-game Terrans are the easiest as they can defend most pushes without problems. In the mid- to lategame, protoss are imho easier due to the warp-in mechanics and the versatility of warpgate units. Zerg are in all phases quite hard. In the early- and midgame they have to scout very well to deal with lots of different types of aggression; In the mid- to lategame they have to deal with the injects on multiple bases while always having to prevent the opponent from getting a deathball rolling. It's also the race that depends about twice as much on having good positioning.
Also, whoever says that Zerg don't need to micro as much as other races has obviously never tried to play Zerg. You cannot a-move banelings, you have to pick targets for hydras while still making sure they don't run in front of the roaches, you have to move a few roaches in to snipe a closossus without having all of the roaches move, ...
I think the hardest race on all fronts is Zerg. I think the easiest race mechanics wise is Terran. I think the easiest race to win games with is Protoss.
Depends entirely on your goal. I assume for your standard casual ladderer Protoss is the easiest. Though I think Terran is probably the easiest to be consistent with as far as win rate at higher levels, Zerg is always difficult, but mostly due to the variety of weirdness going on and difficulty scouting.
i used to play Zerg and Protoss an Terran seemed so easy. Then i started playing Random and now I think they are as hard as Zerg. Especially the blindness in the early game als Protoss and the 'I loose my army, I'm dead' factor sucks imho. As Zerg you have mapcontrol most of the time and you can afford to lose a big chunk of your army, because you can reproduce so fast.
I think there are so many factors to take into account. In each devision there will probably be different races that are easier. Multi player games will also make certain aspects of races easier than in 1v1 games. I also think a lot of players read this and only think mechanic wise. This will probably make zerg the hardest and protoss the easiest, but that doesnt necessarilly say they are.
I dont feel zerg necesarily is harder then the other races, but it feels like it because it is less forgiving. Small mistakes as zerg lose you games alot easier then it does for T/P, and thats because we dont have walls to hide behind, siege units to defend with, a missed larvae inject is missed cant be caught up with like chrono and mule, and spent larvae on drones is spent no matter how much resources you have.
I played Random for some time (I'm Diamond rank SEA and high Diamond NA) and I found all of the races pretty easy mechanically, and quite different mechanically which was good. At Diamond and I think for 90% of Masters players mechanics is the main factor in how hard or easy a race is so I believe it comes down to personal preference. For example I find the least Terran mechanics suit my style, and Zerg builds were not so intuitive for me, so I eventually switched to Protoss (this was back when T was killing every P btw so I didn't just pick the "easiest") as I felt it more suited my style.
Although parts of all races contain elements that suit me as a player the point is that mechanically there was little to distinguish between picking a specific race, at least at my humble level.
I think Protoss is easiest to learn but hardest to master. Zerg is a little harder to learn but a little easier to master. Terran somewhere in the between, pretty balanced.
On May 27 2011 18:52 LuckstYle wrote: agree with op! i mean toss has to caste forcefields....terra has to stim....who ever came up with "a move deathball" i dont get it
Well if terran only has to stim its pretty mutch a 1a deathball, luckily it isnt as easy as that
On May 27 2011 18:52 kvmetternich wrote: As a musician the op sounds like "It's harder to learn bass, drum or guitar ?". The noob usually respond "bass". (yes, im a bass and toss player :D)
I disagree to a certain point. As a musician myself I think it's the easiest to learn guitar with the goal that it sounds like something. The average person can be impressed by some chords and maybe singing, even though it requires basically no skill.
For bass you need to put a little more effort in it that it sounds like something. Noone gets impressed by single notes picked on a bass.
More indepth questions on this topic:
Was do you mean with "easy"? How is it defined? There's no such a thing like skillcap. With which goal / at which point of progress do you measure it?
On May 27 2011 18:52 Namakaye wrote: Definately Terran. All you do is press T and win. Least the other races actually have to think about composition...
This is pretty much exactly what I was looking to avoid.
Just vote in the poll. Please don't start arguments with these inflammatory statements.
Based on micro and macro, Zerg is the easiest race. All your production buildings and supply are on one hotkey, you can also bind all Queens to another hotkey and inject via minimap. Also, there is less micro required than for the other 2 races.
However, strategically, Zerg might be the hardest, early game at least.
I can't vote in this poll. Any sort of opinion anyone forms from this thread is inherently biased because they keep getting beaten by one race or another. The opinion I have here isn't going to accurately reflect what's actually easiest.
This is just asking for balance complaints... I also noticed that there are about 5 Protoss posters here, the rest are either Zerg or Terran. There is no way you're not going to get a bias opinion out of this
On May 27 2011 18:37 freetgy wrote: there is no easy race, each race has its difficulties.
Terran just may feel easier cause it is the safest races due to their design. (good defensiv options, cost effective Units)
just because you believe there is no easiest race doesn't mean everybody thinks the same way.
Nope. But it still means he's right, regardless of how many people may disagree.
What is the actual purpose of this thread in the first place? Logically, everybody should find their main race easiest to play - if this is not the case, it's a clear sign of biased opinion.
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro. The macro mechanics are the easiest, the easiest units to use/understand...
Everyone finds different races to be a challenge. (Unless your TLO) If you asked IdrA to play Terran he'd murder you...whether thats because he finds them hard or not I dunno. However I find the easiest race for me to play is Zerg...however some people find it easier to play others. Isn't that what picking a race is about? I love Terran, but I find it hard to play them, so I don't. Zerg is easy for me So I play them. I think that's the best way of looking at this.
Protoss is by far the easiest race to play. With very little practice or experience I can happily switch from T to P and still dominate most master GM players. However when I switch to Z i find the mechanics much harder to master and build orders need to be much more thought out.
On May 27 2011 19:03 TheQSGamer wrote: Everyone finds different races to be a challenge. (Unless your TLO) If you asked IdrA to play Terran he'd murder you...whether thats because he finds them hard or not I dunno.
On May 27 2011 19:03 TheQSGamer wrote: Everyone finds different races to be a challenge. (Unless your TLO) If you asked IdrA to play Terran he'd murder you...whether thats because he finds them hard or not I dunno.
It's because he has self-respect. ^^
Lol, is this gonna turn into a thread about how wrong IdrA is?
i picked terran as my race because terran was easiest to play for me. i think protoss is similiar in it's difficulty to terran, but zerg is definitely a little bit harder to play, mechanically at least.
On May 27 2011 19:03 TheQSGamer wrote: Everyone finds different races to be a challenge. (Unless your TLO) If you asked IdrA to play Terran he'd murder you...whether thats because he finds them hard or not I dunno.
It's because he has self-respect. ^^
Lol, is this gonna turn into a thread about how wrong IdrA is?
On May 27 2011 19:09 Lipski wrote: i picked terran as my race because terran was easiest to play for me. i think protoss is similiar in it's difficulty to terran, but zerg is definitely a little bit harder to play, mechanically at least.
Exactly my point, its all down to personal preference. There is no 'easier' race. Its a balance, and a damn good one.
I don't like this thread because it assumes that everyone believes one race to be easier than the others, and therefore that nearly everyone believes the game is weighted against their favour (because let's face it there's not many people who would say their own race is the easiest...they'd have to be completely unbiased which is difficult as they are naturally inclined to see the difficulties of their own race and the strengths of their opponents).
On May 27 2011 19:09 Lipski wrote: i picked terran as my race because terran was easiest to play for me. i think protoss is similiar in it's difficulty to terran, but zerg is definitely a little bit harder to play, mechanically at least.
Exactly my point, its all down to personal preference. There is no 'easier' race. Its a balance, and a damn good one.
Personally I find protoss the easiest to play because their tech is fairly straightforward and zerg the second easiest but play terran because I like the style of play and think protoss is boring and hate the inject mechanic.
I play terran and toss, tbh I feel terran is a lot easier. I usually just like to play TvP though, so i'm basing my opinion on how easy that matchup is.
On May 27 2011 18:52 kvmetternich wrote: As a musician the op sounds like "It's harder to learn bass, drum or guitar ?". The noob usually respond "bass". (yes, im a bass and toss player :D)
I used to made fun of a friend who plays bass. Then he showed me what other good bass players can get off their instrument. While he is not there yet, he is the bass player of a band who produces real CDs and have quite a few live performances each year.
In this regard, I could mock you for playing Toss but you probably would beat me (mid-silver) anytime.
On May 27 2011 19:03 TheQSGamer wrote: Everyone finds different races to be a challenge. (Unless your TLO) If you asked IdrA to play Terran he'd murder you...whether thats because he finds them hard or not I dunno. However I find the easiest race for me to play is Zerg...however some people find it easier to play others. Isn't that what picking a race is about? I love Terran, but I find it hard to play them, so I don't. Zerg is easy for me So I play them. I think that's the best way of looking at this.
I would not say that zerg is especially easy, but it could be put this way. We zerg cannot wall-in, but this means that we also don't need to worry to wall properly.
For me, the best zerg property is the ability to switch tech fast. Since I have a quite volatile nature and sometimes decide to completely change my strategy (which is not a sign of good play because I would have a solid game-plan if I would be a decent player) zerg fit my needs.
In terms of general macro, I don't think there a real debate that the order of difficulty is Z=>T=>P.
Zerg is the only race where the APM requirements scale with the number of bases. Terran has mule/scan which is awesome for mineral income. Protoss Chronoboost is incredibly powerful of churn out an insane amount of probes, units and Most importantly upgrades. A 3base toss has in effect a 30s oeps time for any upgrade which can be made up by chronoboost.
Definetaly Terran and i can give a good reason for it Theyre tier 1 units which is marines and marauders are extremely powerful which makes a protoss player needing to tech to immortal to counter early pressure. Theyre upgrades like stim and concussive shells are cheap as well. Also medivacs who can transport units and heal at the same time! Also just a 100/100 unit.
People saying protoss is the easiest, well that is just plain wrong. You need micro and good understanding of the game to win as protoss.
On May 27 2011 19:13 The KY wrote: I don't like this thread because it assumes that everyone believes one race to be easier than the others, and therefore that nearly everyone believes the game is weighted against their favour (because let's face it there's not many people who would say their own race is the easiest...they'd have to be completely unbiased which is difficult as they are naturally inclined to see the difficulties of their own race and the strengths of their opponents).
Well no it would assume that people find their own race easier. Why play a race when you find it hard to play? Its exactly like different tactics...spanishiwa plays 14 expand no gas till 40 because he finds it easier to do so. If you told Sheth or Dimaga to do that build then they would struggle. Its not a matter of it infact being easier, its just a matter of how easy you find it.
Let me explain like this:
In terms of football (Soccer for all you US residents): Its very easy for almost anyone to kick a ball. Its very hard for almost anyone to kick a ball like Roanaldo, or Nani, or Tevez. However its very easy for Ronaldo, Nani and Tevez to kick a ball like Ronanldo, Nani or Tevez...you get what I am saying? Its easy to play starcraft. However different people find it EASIER to play different ways and different races. Its not a matter of one race being easier...its a matter of personal preference and skill.
Getting into master 4 gating protoss is easiest followed closely by 1 base terran.
Playing properly current metagame imo TvP harder for T, PvZ harder for P and ZvT is harder for Z. Overall zerg is prolly the hardest race to learn for beginners, at master level prolly all around same.
@op using 2.25 move speed as a characteristic of ez race dont work
protoss unit move speed is close enough to where the units stay in a ball and if you check this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=219637 you will notice the attack timings line up with eachother so you basically only need to stutter step at the rate of a stalker
On May 27 2011 19:03 TheQSGamer wrote: Everyone finds different races to be a challenge. (Unless your TLO) If you asked IdrA to play Terran he'd murder you...whether thats because he finds them hard or not I dunno. However I find the easiest race for me to play is Zerg...however some people find it easier to play others. Isn't that what picking a race is about? I love Terran, but I find it hard to play them, so I don't. Zerg is easy for me So I play them. I think that's the best way of looking at this.
ofc tlo finds the other races to be a challenge i dont think hes playing terran because he is good at all 9 matchups and feels like being lazy and playing what he may consider a lazy race
On May 27 2011 19:14 Esoterikk wrote: Personally I find protoss the easiest to play because their tech is fairly straightforward and zerg the second easiest but play terran because I like the style of play and think protoss is boring and hate the inject mechanic.
I also consider Protoss tech quite easy to grasp for a beginner. While Terrans have more synergies, they also rely more on synergies. You need a starport for effective stim use, but for a starport you need a factory first. Protoss also have static defense cannons which combine air and ground defense. But other races have their beginner-friendly advantages, too. So I agree that personal preference is the deciding factor.
This is a stupid thread. Most here probably haven't even seriously tried all 3 races. The mechanics involved for them are very different so you can't put them in the same category. Terran macro is far different from Zerg macro. As other people have mentioned, it comes down to preference. No race is harder or easier to play than the other; it's just different. This kind of discussion promotes flame wars.
On May 27 2011 18:43 Bagonad wrote: Terran will most likely win, there seem to be a surplus of forum-active zerg and protoss players, they're usualy half the population of zerg and protoss respectively in polls.
Nah Zergs mostly focus their QQ on P lately. P got this, e-z.
On May 27 2011 19:05 Galaxy77 wrote: With very little practice or experience I can happily switch from T to P and still dominate most master GM players.
I love how people throw this out without any supporting evidence whatsoever.
Zerg and Terran imo are tied because terran micro is fairly intensive with kiting, splits, drops, emps, sieges and what not while their macro is much easier with mule and supply drop. Zerg on the other hand is hard to macro with due to spawn larva while their micro is pretty much non existent other than spreading and fungal.
Toss is easiest imo because they have chrono and with warp gate they don't get punished really for being out of position compared to terran and zerg. They also have some really basic micro with pretty much just FF being used and maybe some colossi dancing or storm micro rarely both.
I don't think the difference is really that large though and a game will rarely be decided on the "easy" difference and will be due to player skill not tiny differences in the races. Some people prefer to look outwards and blame the other race instead of blaming their own play.
I was a Terran during beta and during season 1 ladder. I switched to Zerg because people were always complaining about how much harder it was and I wanted to see if it was true.
Honestly, I had a change of heart. I thought they were just whining, but I found it much easier playing Terran than Zerg. It just fit my gameplay style better. It was intuitive to me stutter stepping, doing multiple drops, and whatnot. Having the remember to inject every 40 seconds just wasnt nearly as easy for me. It still isnt and I struggle to play at the same level as I did when I played terran. Having a bunch of zerglings just doesnt feel as powerful as a bunch of marines. Its more difficult dealing with early game aggression.
I think its just me though. Some others I know have a much harder time playing Terran than Zerg. I guess its jsut play style differences. Im still stickin with Zerg though
Good thing you defined "easiest" or this thread would've actually not made sense. Oh wait. Micro and macro? Um, both of those depend on your skills and the skill limit to perfect micro and macro are basically unreachable for all three races. People saying "I could switch to protoss and still win easily". If you understand the macro mechanics of any race you can switch to them. The reason switching to zerg would be hard is not because it's a hard race necessarily but because it's such a different playstyle.
Hmm I think that only random players should be qualified to answer the question. Most people stick to one race in SC2 and are heavily biased to just call the race easiest against which they have the most frustrating losses, despite the lack in actual gameplay experience with that race.
So the poll data is ok, but the question that was actually asked is "What race do you consider the most annoying to deal with?
So I'd personally go with Zerg, because in PvZ there is practically no room for error, and a million ways to insta-lose the game if you play a standard macro game because of zergs mobility, eco advantage, easy early-mid scouting denial and map control, fast reproduction and tech switches. At least for me its quite possible to lose to zergs that are a league or even two below mine, which almost never happens against protoss or terran.
But is it zerg easy to play? I don't feel qualified to comment on that. The few games i played zerg sure didn't feel more easy or harder, just different.
Also if you look at high profile matches over the course of the last year, all three races were consistently winning tournaments, so the "easy" race question in the end is decided by who is more vocal about his frustrations with another race.
Comments aren't the main point of this thread, the poll is. So it's ok, i think.
PS: no definition of easy T.T . If there were alpha roaches, all Z would have to do is to press R against equally skilled oppponent. So Z would be easiest. So it's kinda balance question.
On May 27 2011 19:21 youngminii wrote: a combination of 4 gate and and the warp gate mechanic makes protoss the 'easiest'
however, in the sense of value for effort, terran has to be the easiest
4-gate is dead(or at least cripled to the point of not mattering), and the warp gate mechanic means that Toss has to watch the cool down intently because without the ability to cue a unit a second before the round of units finishes it is that much harder to stay on top of production. Not sure how those make Protoss easiest.
Definitely toss. I played toss when SC2 was released then switched to zerg which I main now. Played nothing but zerg for months, then started trying toss again and was doing great.
Where as zerg has to do the whole drone balancing which means scouting is KEY, toss can BASICALLY pick how they want to play and just do it. Not saying toss don't have to react, but they can generally dictate play so good that you're not all that worried about what your opponent is doing, while as a zerg you're always worried about just how much the opponent has, what composition he has and how likely he is to push you within a minute.
While there are some relatively easy zerg strategies (spanishiwa opening into mass roach is quite easy to play decently effectively against standard toss) you will often be forced to play for the late game and be ready to react fast as hell to what the opponent deciedes to do, I find most toss strategies to be quite easy to play.
Bear in mind, this is platinum level. I'm sure all races are way harder in masters and you will always need to play quite reactively, but toss is a race which any newbie can learn to macro decently with, learn 1-2 good builds and just play them always and do great. Chronoboost and warp in makes the toss army strong. Learning to use forcefields OK isn't hard at all and will improve your play a lot. Even a great zerg will have issues with gold level forcefields from a toss since there's not much you can do against them.
Not saying toss is OP at all, it's not a question of balance. But I definitely feel a toss doesn't have to have even close to the gamesense and multitasking as a zerg of "the same level". For a zerg to outplay a toss, the zerg has to be quite a lot better (in lower leagues).
EDIT: I guess my main point is that having great macro as toss makes you almost invincible in lower leagues, while having great macro as zerg doesn't mean you're going to win since the key is to make drones at the right times, not to just make them.
I don't think any race is easy, its all about the user and has nothing to do with the races. Each one has its distinct advantages which makes one facet of it "easier" to pull off something as compared to another but I wouldn't ever say an entire race is easy. Tbh I don't think this is a good topic to discuss since there are always gonna be those people who say "mules ez win" or "mass lings" and always the "make invisible wall into gg". There all hard! :D
I don't play random but I change race every week or 2 weeks just because i find SC2 more fun and varied that way. Personally i find Protoss by far the easiest, but i may just be a much better Protoss than i am a terran or zerg. I find it hard to scout as zerg so you can get hit with a lot of different all ins which each require a very different response. Terran i find very APM intensive (drops and constantly paying attention to your army) and a mismicro can really lose you a game you were previously in the lead of. Protoss I feel is really easy to micro, putting your zealots in front is just a matter of laziness and (although great ffs are really hard) decent ffs are simple to do. As Protoss i just turtle and get a late game army.
I have tried all races, and having tried them all, my opinion is that Zerg feels easier to me. The difficulty is finding windows to drone up while your opponent tries to stop you, but if you succeed in droning without getting crippled, Zerg has a huge advantage and a huge freedom to techswitch whenever he likes.
Learning Terran took me a loooooooong time. I found switching between 3-4 production facilities really hard at first. I can inject whole day, but this seemed quite tough to me. Micro is also much more important compared to other races. Learning build orders felt tough at start, because Zerg is practically free to do whatever he wants after the unit structures go down, but Terran is committed so you need to choose wisely.
Protoss was my first race, and I never really got good at it so I don't really know what to say. But I voted Protoss, because Protoss takes the least micro out of three races, simply because of Colossus. About Macro, I find it also really easy with the warpgates.
On May 27 2011 19:32 done wrote: protoss is the easiest and strongest race atm by a long shot...
Why...back it up? It may be easiest and strongest for you. But by that mentality. All Terran players and Zerg players will lose to Protoss...is that happening? No. Simple as.
On May 27 2011 19:32 done wrote: protoss is the easiest and strongest race atm by a long shot...
Why...back it up? It may be easiest and strongest for you. But by that mentality. All Terran players and Zerg players will lose to Protoss...is that happening? No. Simple as.
Don't bring your 'logic' into a thread about imbalance. "back it up" as in like with facts??? you ask too much.
On May 27 2011 19:13 The KY wrote: I don't like this thread because it assumes that everyone believes one race to be easier than the others, and therefore that nearly everyone believes the game is weighted against their favour (because let's face it there's not many people who would say their own race is the easiest...they'd have to be completely unbiased which is difficult as they are naturally inclined to see the difficulties of their own race and the strengths of their opponents).
Entry level it's defenitely P. Lategame on the other hand; handling chrono is as hard as handling larva inject, albeit much more forgiving if you don't do it perfectly.
On May 27 2011 19:32 done wrote: protoss is the easiest and strongest race atm by a long shot...
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro. The macro mechanics are the easiest, the easiest units to use/understand...
Please show me your blink micro and good forcefield use.
This just looks like a troll.
On topic. I vote'd Terran. I feel like explaining it would take many walls of text, but basically T is super safe and super cost effective =\
Terran. They start with 6 worker-combat units whereas the other races start with 6 workers.
Jokes aside.
All races have their strengths and weaknesses, different styles, etc. It is hard to argue that one race is easier than the others as different races fit different people's play-styles better. It can also be argued that the level of difficulty varies through the different stages of the game for the different races. Or that the ease of a race is also dependent on various situational factors (spawn locations, maps, etc). No race is easy, and each race takes time to learn and master.
As a Zerg player out of the other two races i find Protoss to be the easiest to play but thats because the machanics are alot closer to Zergs then Terrans are.
Having said that i think most Zerg players will say that Zerg is the hardest because with one wrong move you can lose the game. As Zerg you can lose a game because of a single unit you werent prepared for
I think the only people that can truely comment on what race is the "easiest" are random players because everyone else will be bias towards their own race. Even then they may not be completely objective as they may find playing a certain race easier. For example TLO plays random but prefers Terran to the other races because he plays better with them due to past experiances
On May 27 2011 19:13 The KY wrote: I don't like this thread because it assumes that everyone believes one race to be easier than the others, and therefore that nearly everyone believes the game is weighted against their favour (because let's face it there's not many people who would say their own race is the easiest...they'd have to be completely unbiased which is difficult as they are naturally inclined to see the difficulties of their own race and the strengths of their opponents).
Depends on your viewpoint. Sure you could go into a game as terran, lose to a zerg and come here and say "zerg easiest". Or, you could have played all races a lot and can speak from your own experience.
"I lose to X so they are easiest" is a bad comment. "Toss can warp in units at a proxy pylon to minimize defenders advantage" is a good comment.
As long as people post reasons, it can be a useful thread.
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro. The macro mechanics are the easiest, the easiest units to use/understand...
Please show me your blink micro and good forcefield use.
This just looks like a troll.
On topic. I vote'd Terran. I feel like explaining it would take many walls of text, but basically T is super safe and super cost effective =\
I love when people say ff is hard to use...
But tbh i think toss is just as safe if not safer super early when on one base because one ff can shut down a quick 1 base timing if you scout it and give u time for another wave of warps. Even on two base a bunch of well placed ffs can slice up any attacking force and make it manageable.
Mechanics are easiest for Protoss, but it's easier to win with Terran at lower levels. The hardest to master is Zerg, it has so much potential, it's just crazy.
Also the poll should be more specific, because different races are easier or harder depending on situation and matchup (P>Z, Z>T, T>P).
After getting to at least platinum with all races (main toss), I can easily say that for me, Zerg is by far the simplest to play. The fact that you make drones/units in batches, and you're the only race that can get a ridiculous advantage by never coming in contact with the opponent makes it for an easy style. What they lack in early game all-in holding skills they certainly make up for in late game. Plus, infestors are by far the best caster unit, and all the good zerg units are easily massable (lingbling muta, roach ling infestor, etc etc).
Also, they easily have the best macro mechanic, which is as easy to do and keep up with as all the other ones. Hilariously enough from this thread, it's actually zerg that has the least amount of micro invovled. Marine splits and mutitasking drops are haaaaaaaard, and as is proper force fielding, kiting/blinking, storming/feedbacking etc etc...
I don't get peoples responses to this question. If you think Terran is easier...play as them! If you think Protoss is easier...play as them! And if you think Zerg is easier...guess what? PLAY AS THEM! Soooo many people complaining about the mechanics of the game.
Example: I was playing a ZvT on Tal'Darim. Im the Zerg player. He pressured my front with Stimmed marines, I held it off and countered his mass of reinforcements will rolling banelings. His entire force went bye bye and I won. For me that was easy. He said: 'That is why Banelings are OP. Zerg is sooo easy'. For me, yes...zerg is easy. (On the subject of Banelings being OP: Watch your mini map dude.) However for other people, its hard. I know how to play AGAINST P/T but I can't play AS them because I find it hard. This is such a stupid thread. Im getting wound up at work so there is 0 point in me posting anymore.
Seriously lol at everyone saying this thread is stupid and pointless, but they post saying that and bumping the thread.
Anyway, I voted Terran, it's the easiest race to understand how to win and defend with. Also, at low levels you can accidentally win with Terran, you can't really do that with P or Z.
On May 27 2011 19:39 whisp91 wrote: Entry level it's defenitely P. Lategame on the other hand; handling chrono is as hard as handling larva inject, albeit much more forgiving if you don't do it perfectly.
On May 27 2011 19:32 done wrote: protoss is the easiest and strongest race atm by a long shot...
Are you an idiot?
That is why they are winning all the tournaments the last month lol jk zerg are cause of roach ling all ins and very easy holds against terran ;d
On the front of this question
Terran provides the best beginner experience due to be able to learn most of the units on campaign probably the most micro intensive race, macro doesn't really affect outcome of games. Protoss is possible the easiest to grasp for macro and easiest to win at lower levels. Zerg is pretty basic to learn macro and micro, easiest race to all in on to punish early expansions / hold all in pressure and probably the easier race to win at with mid tiers.
This is a really bad thread haha. If Protoss really was the easiest, every single pro-gamer would play them to maximise their earnings potential as they'd be able to hit skill ceilings faster.
Why TL, why... my mind is literally blown by how bad 90% of the repsonses in this thread are.
I voted protoss because right now alot of players are having a hard time against them more so than any other although it isnt by much when compared to the other match ups.
Overall the three races all have their own strengths and weaknesses and the game is slowly but surely reaching a point where it's more or less even and down to personal preference more than a specific race being the "easiest". You could almost say it's already reached that point.
On May 27 2011 19:48 Trowa127 wrote: This is a really bad thread haha. If Protoss really was the easiest, every single pro-gamer would play them to maximise their earnings potential as they'd be able to hit skill ceilings faster.
Why TL, why...
I don't know about other people but a ton of my friends who had no RTS experience started playing SC2. All of them except one plays toss, one plays terran. Why? Because it's the easiest to learn and get good with. Is it the easiest to win at pro levels with against other pros? Probably not, who knows. It's not interesting to the discussion, at pro levels everything is hard no matter what.
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro. The macro mechanics are the easiest, the easiest units to use/understand...
Please show me your blink micro and good forcefield use.
This just looks like a troll.
On topic. I vote'd Terran. I feel like explaining it would take many walls of text, but basically T is super safe and super cost effective =\
I love when people say ff is hard to use...
But tbh i think toss is just as safe if not safer super early when on one base because one ff can shut down a quick 1 base timing if you scout it and give u time for another wave of warps. Even on two base a bunch of well placed ffs can slice up any attacking force and make it manageable.
Yes... WELL PLACED FF'S. Perhaps you haven't watched many low'ish levle protoss play. But between not making enough sentry and having awful ff's. They simply lose to those pushes.
What people assume with protoss is that all of them know what unit comp to make, how to FF perfectly, and know where to be looking at what times. This isn't the case.
You would be surprised how many protoss, even high ranked diamond, have god awful forcefields and sentry use, which is a fundamental of being a good protoss player. And yes, protoss can sit on its ramp until the opponent gets vision, but you have to keep in mind, being on 1base is meh and if protoss is forced into that position then they are relatively easy to deal with. You have to worry about 1 all in, then you pretty much win the game.
On May 27 2011 19:48 Trowa127 wrote: This is a really bad thread haha. If Protoss really was the easiest, every single pro-gamer would play them to maximise their earnings potential as they'd be able to hit skill ceilings faster.
Why TL, why...
I don't know about other people but a ton of my friends who had no RTS experience started playing SC2. All of them except one plays toss, one plays terran. Why? Because it's the easiest to learn and get good with. Is it the easiest to win at pro levels with against other pros? Probably not, who knows. It's not interesting to the discussion, at pro levels everything is hard no matter what.
The problem with this thread is that people like you are just saying things with no proof that really bear no relevance to the topic - all my friends play Zerg, they are low level, is that because its the easiest? I started by playing terran and three rax'd to diamond, then switched to protoss when people got wise, does that make Terran easy because I was able to do that? No, it doesn't. Every race has its hard and easy points.
Another interesting factor is how it ends up with skill.
Like I said, I find toss way easier than both terran and zerg because of reasons previously stated. THAT SAID, I think if played perfectly, Zerg is unbeatable. I think that a player at a skilllevel of Flash in BW would be almost impossible to beat as Zerg, since zergs has the potential to deny all harass, harass well AND macro up the fastest. one or two mistakes can kill you, but if you make no mistakes? You win, sort of.
Zerg just is hardest so no need to even debate. So it came down to protoss vs terran for me.
I play terran because I feel they are the easiest. Some of the things that helps a gold leaguer like myself:
- I am bad at multitasking and scouting. Scan helps alot - Sometimes I get supply blocked -> call down supply - I can produce units out of buildings without having to look at the buildings. Toss needs to warp in and have pylons nearby or go back to base to produce more units. - Many units have the same speed. It makes it easier to micro. WIth toss you gotta have the zealots in front etc. Forcefields not placed well is just a waste so I don't want to have to think about that. - Mule is great. You can call down a lot of them if you forget your CC energy - Moving buildings is great. I can sometimes misplace buildings and go "damn I should have put it there". No problem, just lift and replace. - I ususally play 2 base. When Im mined out, just go and relocate my CCs to another place -> awesome.
those are the reasons why I find terran an easy to learn race.
On May 27 2011 19:51 FarbrorAbavna wrote: I voted protoss because right now alot of players are having a hard time against them more so than any other
Where does this come from? Any numbers to back it up? Looking at the statistics from ALL ladder matches, Protoss performed the worse, so it wouldnt really seem that this is the case. It is amazing how rumors like this can spread. Truly baffling
i to be 100% honest say zerg is the easiest. i play zerg all the time on a friend's diamond account and i have a MUCH better win percent (74%) playing zerg OFF RACE than i do protoss (main race 52%) i just feel protoss is such a flimsy race and zerg you can really control you destiny. I always wanted to learn to play terran, i feel if you play terran, you're just a better player. it takes so much more mental skill to play that race. Protoss will always be my love, since brood war though. Much easier to learn the basics with it, i will agree.
They have the easiest micro because their army is most efficient and ideal in a 1a deathball. They have the easiest macro due to having a global warpgate button.
Average Protoss pro players (axlav, white-ra) have far lower APM than terran/zerg players.
There are many terran/zerg pros who can offrace as toss and still play at a high level.
There are few toss pros who can offrace as zerg/terran and still play at a high level.
On May 27 2011 19:51 FarbrorAbavna wrote: I voted protoss because right now alot of players are having a hard time against them more so than any other
Where does this come from? Any numbers to back it up? Looking at the statistics from ALL ladder matches, Protoss performed the worse, so it wouldnt really seem that this is the case. It is amazing how rumours like this can spread. Truly baffleing
i dont understand how people having a hard time against a certain race make them the easiest?
also what do ladder statistics have to do with easiest? just because it is the easiest doesnt it will perform well. pretty sure most people would agree Protoss in Broodwar was def the easiest race to learn but that didnt mean it performed well. there is a reason there is bonjwa protosses. whether a race does well doesnt make them the easiest race.
Switched from Z to P cuz Z was difficult (Diamond level) then switched from P to T cuz P is too easy, so easy that it actually got me to high masters (didnt cheese either) and T is a little harder especially when u go fe builds like 1 rax expo and all that. Its also more fun because u have to actually micro in battles and u can do multiple attacks with drops.
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro. The macro mechanics are the easiest, the easiest units to use/understand...
Please show me your blink micro and good forcefield use.
This just looks like a troll.
On topic. I vote'd Terran. I feel like explaining it would take many walls of text, but basically T is super safe and super cost effective =\
I love when people say ff is hard to use...
But tbh i think toss is just as safe if not safer super early when on one base because one ff can shut down a quick 1 base timing if you scout it and give u time for another wave of warps. Even on two base a bunch of well placed ffs can slice up any attacking force and make it manageable.
Yes... WELL PLACED FF'S. Perhaps you haven't watched many low'ish levle protoss play. But between not making enough sentry and having awful ff's. They simply lose to those pushes.
What people assume with protoss is that all of them know what unit comp to make, how to FF perfectly, and know where to be looking at what times. This isn't the case.
You would be surprised how many protoss, even high ranked diamond, have god awful forcefields and sentry use, which is a fundamental of being a good protoss player. And yes, protoss can sit on its ramp until the opponent gets vision, but you have to keep in mind, being on 1base is meh and if protoss is forced into that position then they are relatively easy to deal with. You have to worry about 1 all in, then you pretty much win the game.
I know it's not a matter of hitting F and then suddenly you have a perfect FF but realistically you can't use really low players as an example as to why a race is hard.Their ignorance does not make the race harder to play. I'm thinking of mid level---> high level where macro is fairly even.
As for the 1 base FF thing I was thinking of a unscouted aggression where just having built a sentry will let you save yourself. Back in the beta people would rarely FF their ramp when the terran would do a 3 rax push with stim. Once the toss players figured out to stop it then just rush colossi while they delayed with FF so they could do a huge push and expand. Idk if people even 3 rax any more but i think that the idea of being able to blindly delay any attempts to shut down aggression makes toss a lot easier to play at lower and mid levels.
On May 27 2011 20:05 antilyon wrote: flame bait? Anyone will choose the race they don't use, no one wants to say they lose because his opponet was just better than him.
Not everyone is like that. Lots of people in this topic has said their own race is the easiest, I personally played toss in BW and it was definitely because they were the easiest to learn in that game.
Terran. At high level at least. You are always safe if you play properly. It's the most forgiving, you can sacrifice scvs to hold of a rush, because you have mules. If you didn't scout properly or couldn't and feel uneasy, you can throw down a scan and get the information. You have the best static defenses, bunker that are salvagable, and turrets. Against every invis attack you have from the beginning a tool to detect if you didn't go for detection.
Terran is so robust, the macro isn't really hard, you can queue up units, miss mule cooldowns. You can wall off against every race without a draw back thanks to depot.
In my opinion, Protoss is the easiest while Terran and Zerg are difficult in their own ways. From my (limited) experience, Terran has harder (even though maybe more forgiving) mechanics, while Zerg has the harder decision making and similar. Protoss feels like they have both relatively easy decision making and mechanics.
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro. The macro mechanics are the easiest, the easiest units to use/understand...
Please show me your blink micro and good forcefield use.
This just looks like a troll.
On topic. I vote'd Terran. I feel like explaining it would take many walls of text, but basically T is super safe and super cost effective =\
I love when people say ff is hard to use...
But tbh i think toss is just as safe if not safer super early when on one base because one ff can shut down a quick 1 base timing if you scout it and give u time for another wave of warps. Even on two base a bunch of well placed ffs can slice up any attacking force and make it manageable.
Yes... WELL PLACED FF'S. Perhaps you haven't watched many low'ish levle protoss play. But between not making enough sentry and having awful ff's. They simply lose to those pushes.
What people assume with protoss is that all of them know what unit comp to make, how to FF perfectly, and know where to be looking at what times. This isn't the case.
You would be surprised how many protoss, even high ranked diamond, have god awful forcefields and sentry use, which is a fundamental of being a good protoss player. And yes, protoss can sit on its ramp until the opponent gets vision, but you have to keep in mind, being on 1base is meh and if protoss is forced into that position then they are relatively easy to deal with. You have to worry about 1 all in, then you pretty much win the game.
I know it's not a matter of hitting F and then suddenly you have a perfect FF but realistically you can't use really low players as an example as to why a race is hard.Their ignorance does not make the race harder to play. I'm thinking of mid level---> high level where macro is fairly even.
As for the 1 base FF thing I was thinking of a unscouted aggression where just having built a sentry will let you save yourself. Back in the beta people would rarely FF their ramp when the terran would do a 3 rax push with stim. Once the toss players figured out to stop it then just rush colossi while they delayed with FF so they could do a huge push and expand. Idk if people even 3 rax any more but i think that the idea of being able to blindly delay any attempts to shut down aggression makes toss a lot easier to play at lower and mid levels.
So first you say we shouldn't consider low level players in the forcefield talk because they're ignorant. Then you say. IF PROTOSS DOESNT SCOUT AN AGGRESSION BUILD THEY CAN SURVIVE WITH A FF.
Not scouting an aggression build = low level. So lets ignore them.
Then you say you think toss is easier at low-mid levels. BUT WERE IGNORING THEM.
You sir, need to come up with one statement and stick to it.
At tip top pro levels, all the races are doing about the same, with currently zerg doing quite well, but there are less good zergs, so zerg looks weaker, when really there is just not as many good zerg players.
I think in our GM (NA) there is 60 zerg 70 protoss ~rest terran, aprox, and as you can see, the numbers are relatively close. Doing percents is kind of silly because of the small population size, the numbers may seem a bit inflated on one server.
On May 27 2011 20:08 Elefanto wrote: Terran. At high level at least. You are always safe if you play properly. It's the most forgiving, you can sacrifice scvs to hold of a rush, because you have mules. If you didn't scout properly or couldn't and feel uneasy, you can throw down a scan and get the information. You have the best static defenses, bunker that are salvagable, and turrets. Against every invis attack you have from the beginning a tool to detect if you didn't go for detection.
Terran is so robust, the macro isn't really hard, you can queue up units, miss mule cooldowns. You can wall off against every race without a draw back thanks to depot.
This is why I don't like threads like these, uninformed and opiniated posts based on subjective estimations of how hard something another race does is to pull off.
Well, since this isn't imba poll, it's easy answer: protoss definately is the easiest race to play. I doubt most of the voters really have good enough experience in soloing with all races tho. I have 500+ wins with all races and while I do pretty close to same with all races, it's totally more effortless as toss. APM requirement is definately lower due to easier macro mechanics, and tougher-to-kill units make micro/kiting also less important than with other races. I feel like only scenario where toss really needs to micro hard is if you play heavy blink stalkers in pvz.
I main T and offrace Z, don't play P so can't comment on those.
Terrans have the easier earlygame due to being able to stop most allins with intelligent uses of bunkers and a combination of marines/SCVs or early tanks, where zergs can suffer from allins.
However, as far as mechanics go, I find zergs to be a lot easier to macro properly once you get used to larva injects, due to you being able to produce everything off one hotkey, where Terran has to constantly keep up with production facilities and supply depots, which can't be done off one hotkey and also require knowledge about how much production you can support based on your SCV/base count, and they also have more micro intensive units.
On May 27 2011 20:23 wireke wrote: My brother started playing 3 months ago as P. Atm, he's diamond, close to master. He says P is pretty easy so yeah I believe him.
I've played the 3 races myself in the beginning and I agree with my brother. Macro P is just plain easy.
My mom started playing 1month ago, I told her to pick terran because they're the human race. She's high masters now. She says "It's fun and not super hard!" so yeah I believe her.
"Oh no someone is being aggressive early and I'm not ready!" Forcefield, forcefield, forcefield. You're safe no matter the build. Remember the Losira Roach-Ling all-in? The counter turned out to be building placement, and forcefields.
Not only that, unlike spine crawlers, sentries are incredibly useful in any stage of the game.
And by midgame...
"Oh no he's dropping in my base!" Warp in a few cannons and you're safe. Cannons are the most efficient static defense and there's a reason you can't be aggressive towards a forge FE.
"Oh no he's macroing up I should go drop him!" Well actually you shouldn't. There is no reason for Protoss to drop because it's always much better to spend the extra minerals on building up your deathball. For some reason Blizzard designed Protoss to have the easiest macro, and then removes any reason for them to harass. That's why all you have to do to win is turtle and move out maxed. Against Zerg you push a few timing pushes and you're fine.
"Time for a battle I need to micro!" Protoss units require the least micro, simply because you have units such as the Colossus, and you also just a-click any units stuck behind forcefields. You never have to worry about positioning because other races don't have splash units as powerful as Colossi.
Finally, by lategame
"I need to take more expansions to support my maxed deathball of Tier 3 units!" Not a problem, it doesn't matter how much money you spend on cannons as long as it protects your bases.
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
On May 27 2011 20:23 wireke wrote: My brother started playing 3 months ago as P. Atm, he's diamond, close to master. He says P is pretty easy so yeah I believe him.
I've played the 3 races myself in the beginning and I agree with my brother. Macro P is just plain easy.
My mom started playing 1month ago, I told her to pick terran because they're the human race. She's high masters now. She says "It's fun and not super hard!" so yeah I believe her.
My cat is a beast (he he he) at baneling allins at high masters.
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this.
Drones can morph into any building ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas.
On May 27 2011 20:34 Termit wrote: Make a rule about not making race threads like this. It's so... frustrating reading and the level is always so bad in the threads. =/
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this.
Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas.
Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times.
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2. Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority.
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this.
Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas.
Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times.
So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now.
well i am far away to even be able to play a race in a perfect manner (imo you need 600 apm for that min ! ). But for me zerg is the easiest due to their mechanics. Almost no base macro needed, you can't mess up because you got the wrong production etc (well compared to bw the hatches need now constant care if you use queens). Feels to me like terran just without all the base building. Next in line is toss, shield regen and no setup time for units make toss units really strong when uncontrolled. Last is terran, the micro heavy race, base management is the hardest, you need workers to repair your army or they will not be cost effectiv. Every unit is either specialized in damage or needs to be microed in battle to be effectiv. Also its best to have atleast 1 more unit type out to conter the opponents composition.
Now the fun part if a terran manages to build themself up, they suddenly are really easy to play, just have to slowly move forward wait for the attack and move a few inches forward. While the opponent really has to micro heavy.
So its really situational and more a unit type of thing. immortals needs you to target for him (if you a move with a immortal and the opponent has light units you just lost 66% damage). Zealot pssh just a click.
still my ranking ist 1st zerg 2nd toss 3rd terran ^^. Terran won anyway because of bw .
edit: funnyest thing is anyway offracing pros as terrans. and all production gathered together but enough space for the tech labs reactors, but afterwards they notice that they just have build a little fort and some units are stuck in the middle xD. (on fun games though, but still one of the best thigns to happen)
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2. Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority.
Highest percent of people play protoss? They arn't the most prevalent in GM? Of course, must be because they are the easiest!!
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this.
Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas.
Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times.
So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now.
You can't ignore the rest of the post just because you play Protoss and think you're entitled to easy ways out. For one, making supply depots is harder because it's not efficient to make them in a straight line next to your buildings like pylons. Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs. Third, you don't even need to make a space for warpgates. And finally, the most important thing is that you don't actually have to micro as Protoss, so not only do you require minimal concentration towards the battle, you also don't need it towards macro. So where does it go? Nowhere.
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2. Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority.
Highest percent of people play protoss? They arn't the most prevalent in GM? Of course, must be because they are the easiest!!
I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but he meant the poll. In other words you're further proving his point.
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2. Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority.
Just my humble opinion, but I think a significant part of the opinion that Protoss is easier comes from the Brood War consensus that Protoss was easier when that might not actually be the case in SC2.
The problem with questions like this is that it's WAY to general. Easiest in what way? Macro? Micro? Mechanics? Strategy? Each race is "easiest" in different ways, and unless we can get a more specific version of the question, I think we can't conclusively answer this.
EDIT: Also, I think there needs to be another poll that's below this one asking what race the voter is, that should help reveal bias. For example, if 60% of responders play Protoss, they must (mostly) think their race is easiest.
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this.
Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas.
Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times.
So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now.
You can't ignore the rest of the post just because you play Protoss and think you're entitled to easy ways out. For one, making supply depots is harder because it's not efficient to make them in a straight line next to your buildings like pylons. Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs. Third, you don't even need to make a space for warpgates. And finally, the most important thing is that you don't actually have to micro as Protoss, so not only do you require minimal concentration towards the battle, you also don't need it towards macro. So where does it go? Nowhere.
Elite, you haven't played protoss, have you? You have to rally probes back as well. Pylon placement is WAY more critical than supply depots, what are you talking about? Pylons power buildings and let you warp in, supply depts just need to be placed.
Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs.
You realize that protoss has to rally back workers right? Probes don't magically return to mining (of course as rallying back takes 1 extra click of the mouse it really is not a big deal).
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this.
Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas.
Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times.
So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now.
You can't ignore the rest of the post just because you play Protoss and think you're entitled to easy ways out. For one, making supply depots is harder because it's not efficient to make them in a straight line next to your buildings like pylons. Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs. Third, you don't even need to make a space for warpgates. And finally, the most important thing is that you don't actually have to micro as Protoss, so not only do you require minimal concentration towards the battle, you also don't need it towards macro. So where does it go? Nowhere.
I think terran is the hardest race because you have to know so many tricks. Like you said, you cannot build supply depots just anywhere, and only the really good players build it in unique spots like in front of the refinery. And then the noobs are like "But dude, then you can't mine gas!" and then you say "No problem, I just sink the depot."
Like you said, you cannot build supply depots just anywhere, and only the really good players build it in unique spots like in front of the refinery. And then the noobs are like "But dude, then you can't mine gas!" and then you say "No problem, I just sink the depot."
Every time I see one of the top pros pulling out that trick my heart skips a beat and I remember how awesomely hard it is to be a Terran.
And no, I'm not complaining about imbalance. Protoss strats have a lot of counters but it's just incredibly simplistic, especially since you can warp in every building with a single probe.
I was ok with your entire crying post until this.
Drones can morph into any build ? SCV's can build any building. Hell, late game you don't even need scvs except for gas.
Morphing buildings with Drones is definitely easy but that's not what Zerg macro isn't about. Meanwhile, if you're playing Terran and want to build 4 Barracks, you have to select 4 SCVs and actually worry about the placement so your base isn't a clusterfuck. If you're Protoss you pick one probe and make 4 warpgates instantly right next to each other, not worrying about positioning because they are warpgates. Guess which one is harder to do during a battle? Oh wait, you don't even need to micro as Protoss in the first place past pressing F a couple times.
So basically what you're saying is. Terran is hard because you have to make your buildings in a straight line and leave 1 space inbetween for units to rally out. And this is so mentally demanding for terran players, that the race is fundamentally more difficult. I think I understand now.
You can't ignore the rest of the post just because you play Protoss and think you're entitled to easy ways out. For one, making supply depots is harder because it's not efficient to make them in a straight line next to your buildings like pylons. Second, you have to rally back your workers to minerals unless you're fine with idle SCVs. Third, you don't even need to make a space for warpgates. And finally, the most important thing is that you don't actually have to micro as Protoss, so not only do you require minimal concentration towards the battle, you also don't need it towards macro. So where does it go? Nowhere.
Elite, you haven't played protoss, have you? You have to rally probes back as well. Pylon placement is WAY more critical than supply depots, what are you talking about? Pylons power buildings and let you warp in, supply depts just need to be placed.
Actually I have the icon for 250 games played as Protoss and almost the 500 win one, so I have played it more than I should have. Supply depots can't just be placed or else they'll take up space in your base. For pylons, you can build enough to take up the area around your base, and then build the rest right next to your Nexus powering any warpgates. Just look at oGsMC vs Thorzain. MC spreads out the pylons then just builds any more warpgates in the exact same way I just described. As for rallying back SCVs, you can't do it the same way as Toss because you're doing it with multiple workers so it's inefficient to press shift right away.
On May 27 2011 20:52 Nolot wrote: the hardest at high level
I still find this hard to believe. It seems as though Protoss have reached their skill ceiling, you really can't see any difference between the play of high level Protoss now, such as MC compared to other players.
oh and i forgot the cheapest caster units (gas, since terran has more minerals), that can also fight for themselves with a higer dps then hellions vs light.
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro.
Uhhh.... you can't just 1A and win the battle unless you were already way ahead of your opponent. Especially in early/mid game, forcefields are absolutely required. If your force field was in the wrong place, or 1 second too late, not enough of them, or too many, that can totally lose you the game.
The one thing that made me vote for protoss was the fact that they can play extremely passive.
Both terrans and zergs have to work their ass off to hinder the protoss building up their army. Good harass and multipronged attacks are essential, and that stuff takes alot of multitasking. Protoss harass options on the other hand feel almost detrimental, and why would you harass if you don't have to? Just build up your army and defend your bases, your army will be better anyway.
When a zerg or terran beats a protoss, it actually feels like they worked hard to outplay them. When a protoss player wins, it often feels like they did nothing special, just massed up their ball and threw a couple of forcefields.
Yes I realize this is an overly simplified look at things, but theres some truth in it too imho.
Dumbest thread ever. All races have easy builds and strategys as well as hard ones. Many zergs at this forum I see. Baneling busting and ling + roach all-ins sure do require a lot of skill...
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2. Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority.
Highest percent of people play protoss? They arn't the most prevalent in GM? Of course, must be because they are the easiest!!
No statistics point to that protoss is the easiest, but it still is because ppl said so on a forum!
It really depends how "easy" is defined, but in case you are talking from zero (=RTS noob) to Silver/Gold I would chose protoss.
I have quite some friends that started RTS with SC2 and so far the P seem to be doing much better than T/Z., both in 1o1 and teamgames.
in my opinion the reasons are (note: only from what I have observed in the lower leagues): - very versatile, rather easy to pull of strategy: 4-gate - easiest base-building mechanic: click and place building and you are done, no idle workers afterwards or need to build more drones - easier to get rid of excessive resources: just add more gates and spam units - swiss-army knife unit aka stalker, that can do fine in most match-ups - less complexity as warp-in is easier to handle than queuing + rally point - invisible, flying scouts (big deal for newcomers) - pretty good static defense (covers air and ground), as well as built-in detection - power Units don't really require micro: e.g. Colossus, Immortal, Voidray and Carrier are cool as they are, even unmicroed, whereas tanks (Siege-mode), Marines (Stim), Cruisers (Yamato) require player interaction beyond a-move - chrono boost offers higher flexibility and immediate benefits, whereas the additional minerals from the M.U.L.E seem to create even more excessive minerals among lower ranks - durable units mean that micro-errors don't get punished that hard: e.g. running a stalker army in tank range is more forgiving that doing the same with lings/marines
I think we can conclude protoss is the by far the easiest race in SC2. Wether this is actually "true" or not is irrelevant. The opinion of the majority is far more important than one random players- so stfu and face the truth of the majority.
Highest percent of people play protoss? They arn't the most prevalent in GM? Of course, must be because they are the easiest!!
I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but he meant the poll. In other words you're further proving his point.
Ahh, well whoops, though I still think my statement remains true either way.
On May 27 2011 21:03 Valikyr wrote: Dumbest thread ever. All races have easy builds and strategys as well as hard ones. Many zergs at this forum I see. Baneling busting and ling + roach all-ins sure do require a lot of skill...
Requires more skill than stim pushing and 4gate, yet is not even close to as effective.
Not saying the tactics aren't easy, just saying that a newb is probably going to get farther in the ladder by using a standard bio or gateway push than by doing zerg allins which are weak unless they are pulled off almost perfectly and are comparable to cheese in how hard it is to get back if it fails.
Let's ignore micro and macro for a bit and look at the situation from a strategy standpoint: protoss is the only race that has to do nothing else but macro and defend to win the game. Basically if neither player makes any strategic decisions until both are 200/200, the toss will win in a vast majority of the cases. Toss may say zerg doesn't have to attack a terran either; to a certain extent this is true, however, the key difference is the max army of the "defending race" in TvZ (being zerg) is weaker than its counterpart, unlike PvX.
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro. The macro mechanics are the easiest, the easiest units to use/understand...
yea Prtooss man. Prtooss. and those other units man. what the fuck are they doing? its soo hard to understand. you also dont understand those? phew i thought i was the only one. all they do is die because of my imba Prtooss deathball which can cast FF, guardien, blink and storm when i press 1A. hell yes!
On May 27 2011 21:03 Valikyr wrote: Dumbest thread ever. All races have easy builds and strategys as well as hard ones. Many zergs at this forum I see. Baneling busting and ling + roach all-ins sure do require a lot of skill...
Requires more skill than stim pushing and 4gate, yet is not even close to as effective.
Not saying the tactics aren't easy, just saying that a newb is probably going to get farther in the ladder by using a standard bio or gateway push than by doing zerg allins which are weak unless they are pulled off almost perfectly and are comparable to cheese in how hard it is to get back if it fails.
I'm fairly certain Roach+Ling allins can get you decently far on ladder as I see them in high diamond frequently as well as on several top master streams (even more frequently than I see them). I also find it difficult to believe that 4-gates pose much threat any more, they were never all that strong before the nerf so them still being some terrible threat seems unlikely.
I main Protoss and I can still play Terran at around my level just using crazy effective all-ins.
On May 27 2011 21:11 StrangrDangr wrote: I also find it difficult to believe that 4-gates pose much threat any more, they were never all that strong before the nerf so them still being some terrible threat seems unlikely.
Protoss is the easiest to play, and features simple production mechanics and base building, but requires decent micro, as losing the army can be dangerous. Terran production is the most complicated (add-on's, many facilities), but is a race that is very forgiving of mistakes in gameplay (bunkers, repair, planetary fortress, scan, mule, supply drop, etc, etc). Zerg production is hard and somewhat unforgiving, although after some time injects become second nature; however, zerg gameplay punishes mistakes the most severely, and the race itself is the most susceptible to all-in or counter attacks, as it is a very weak race when played defensively due to a lack of accessible siege weaponry and sim-city structures. In addition, the fact that drones and units are produced singularly from larva can create some complicated and frustrating scenarios, which is exacerbated by a lack of reliable scouting capability and the obsolescence of creep as soon as an enemy observer is produced. So in my view, Protoss is the easiest, then Terran, and Zerg as the hardest. I guess the only advantage is that Zerg benefits the most from taking economic risks and having good macro, which reflects itself in the ability for a zerg's production to exponentially grow.
On May 27 2011 20:51 elitesniper420 wrote: Actually I have the icon for 250 games played as Protoss and almost the 500 win one, so I have played it more than I should have. Supply depots can't just be placed or else they'll take up space in your base. For pylons, you can build enough to take up the area around your base, and then build the rest right next to your Nexus powering any warpgates. Just look at oGsMC vs Thorzain. MC spreads out the pylons then just builds any more warpgates in the exact same way I just described. As for rallying back SCVs, you can't do it the same way as Toss because you're doing it with multiple workers so it's inefficient to press shift right away.
There are some real differences in race mechanics if you want to talk about how they play out. The fact that you have played almost 500 games on an offrace and think that one of the key differences between T and P is that depots take up space in your base.....
The poll should probably be renamed "pick the race you think you're better than but still lose to". It's nothing but pointless whining, and there was a 0% chance it could ever develop into anything else.
On May 27 2011 18:54 SweetAs wrote: Prtooss. 1A, literally requires no micro. The macro mechanics are the easiest, the easiest units to use/understand...
good luck 1A into Terran MMM and Zerg with Infestors and Banelings
[QUOTE]On May 27 2011 18:55 eYeball wrote: I think Protoss is easiest to learn but hardest to master. Zerg is a little harder to learn but a little easier to master. Terran somewhere in the between, pretty balanced.[/QUOTE
Oright toss is the easiest race strong units little micro and so easie macro. Terran is the hardest race couse the macro for zerg is not much harder then it is for terran but the micro for terran with multiprongattacks and tank and dropshipmicro is really hard and there dosent toss or zerg even get close.
On May 27 2011 19:55 papaz wrote: Zerg just is hardest so no need to even debate.
ORLY?
On May 27 2011 19:55 papaz wrote: - I am bad at multitasking and scouting. Scan helps alot
I am also bad at multitasking and scouting. Spreading lings or sending ovis helps a lot.
On May 27 2011 19:55 papaz wrote: - Sometimes I get supply blocked -> call down supply
I also get sometimes supplyblocked. But I can build several overlords at once, without having any workers off mining.
On May 27 2011 19:55 papaz wrote: - I can produce units out of buildings without having to look at the buildings. Toss needs to warp in and have pylons nearby or go back to base to produce more units.
I also don't need to look at my hatches because I have them hotkeys. I don't even need to hotkey different unit production buildings. I can also produce units with few keystrokes. S (select larvae) R (hold down) = 20 roaches are coming.
On May 27 2011 19:55 papaz wrote: - Many units have the same speed. It makes it easier to micro. WIth toss you gotta have the zealots in front etc. Forcefields not placed well is just a waste so I don't want to have to think about that.
My zerg units have different speeds but often time very fast speed. It makes it easier to micro. I can just send the lings in front of him and then a-move. Because of autosurround I can macro while my lings take care of his units.
On May 27 2011 19:55 papaz wrote: - Mule is great. You can call down a lot of them if you forget your CC energy
Larvae mechanics is great. I can build 7 drones at once if I forgot to constantly build drones.
On May 27 2011 19:55 papaz wrote: - Moving buildings is great. I can sometimes misplace buildings and go "damn I should have put it there". No problem, just lift and replace.
Autohealing buildings are great. I just need to wait and they heal. I also can replace my "static" defense without needing to salvage a bunker. I can also replace air defense with just 6 gameseconds rooting time, making a wrongly placed spore not losing me my base to a voidray or banshee.
On May 27 2011 19:55 papaz wrote: - I ususally play 2 base. When Im mined out, just go and relocate my CCs to another place -> awesome.
I usually play 2- or 3-base. When I am mined out, I still have a unit production builing left with no need to relocate anything. Since I connect my bases with creep, I can relocate defensive units very fast.
As it stands currently I think Toss. My reasoning is, well it's not Z not by a long shot (I'm T). So it's either P or T. So when determining difficulty the things to consider are Macro, Micro and decision making (like do I make drones now? or Can I attack now?). For macro it's a slight bit easier for P I think because of the promt of when Wgates are done and then only having to worry about the robo/star for T style building queues, but not by alot.
For micro easier for P the main micro challenges of P are FFs which are not that difficult except in early/early-mid game), Feedback which is fairly hard, storm which is not and pheonix micro which isn't really used at all. T has to deal with splitting and seiging and EMP not alot harder but still harder. For decision making I think P has it easier as the acess to information is easier is probably greater it isn't burst like T with scan but an obs can stay around for however long it wants albeit not in great spots if there is detection but I think the fact that a scan is a not mule that an obs is overall better. Also you have to consider the responses the deathball works against everything in every matchup (infestor ling and mech sound promising though along with some other stuff) but you need to do different stuff as T MM tank for Z and T (with permutations) and MMM ghost viking for P where as it's deathball deathball deathball for P. Overall I just think a P player doesn't need to think as much or have as high of an AMP.
I'm not trying to winge about imbalance I think the game is remarkably balanced for it's age nor am I trying to detract from the acheivments of the P progamers, it takes remarkable skill to have such accomplishments in any case but I can't avoid what I just said I do think it takes a little less skill to play P than T or especially Z. I am open to anyone thoughts I am willing to reconsider my opinions.
Am I the only one that has the easiest time as zerg? I play random (Up to top 10 platinum now) and when I get zerg I'm usually very confident. Terran requires a lot of small micro management decisions and superb macro; Toss needs impeccable macro and wise strategic decisions but when I play Zerg, all I have to do is use my brain. At least it feels that way.
I play random, and so far I've only been struggling with spawning as Protoss against the diamonds that I'm facing. Aside from what the op said about Protoss, which is true for me, I find it difficult to cast well because my computer unfortunately lags a bit in big battles. I also have trouble figuring out whether I should attack or expand instead of just sitting with my army (I do check my replays though to look for that).
Terran is somewhere in the middle. I don't have the greatest scouting info because I don't really yet know when it is a good time to scan (when I do scan something important I feel like I either got lucky or it's too late). The thing that makes Terrans suited to me is the variety of ways it can abuse the opponent (reapers, banshees, drops). Those let me scout as well, but again, it seems too late. What I also found while playing is that the amount of micro required is lower than the other two races.
The greatest success I have, however, is with Zerg. It seems like I'm in control of the game when I spawn as Zerg because I almost always see when my opponent is dropping, moving out, or taking his expo. My creep spread is also alright (for my level at least), which greatly helps me against the silly one-base builds that people try to pull off.
Do all of you voting protoss is the easiest race actually ever play protoss?
I am a low level random player (platin) and the race that is actually dragging my ladder rank down is definitely protoss.
My protoss win rate is 40%, my zerg win rate 60% and my terran win rate 80%. On the other hand I win most games against protoss except for pvp. I hardly ever lose a zvp.
I can honestly say that I trained for all the races equally, because I used random exclusively since I started playing 8 weeks ago. I maybe even put more thought into my protoss builds because I lose so much with them.
Of course I am just playing for fun, but still I think that my opinion that terran is the easiest race at a low-to-mid level while protoss is the hardest is more valid than most other opinions in here, because I actually play all 3 races. I most likely would be diamond by now if I played terran exclusively. I can confidently say I would win against myself in Zvp, Tvp and Tvz in a majority of the games
P.S.: Even though I am a random player, opponents whine about the "easy 1a" race in the rare case I actually win with protoss! The bias is absolutely ridiculous, especially from zerg players.
Someone was asked this question on SOTG or something recently and the prop players response was that Protoss is easier at the amateur level and Terran was easier at the Pro level
I voted Protoss but I wanted to explain what I mean. I think at the highest levels of play there is no easiest race, and I don't think games even down to Silver level are the result of one race against another race, but I do feel that Protoss is still the easiest and could potentially have an effect in the Bronze league or for a new player joining the game.
My reason for that is because of the way the race works.
• If you want more units spawning you build more Gateways, it's intuitive, there's no larva and no addons.
• A large Protoss army on attack move can perform decently well, and at low levels that could make a difference.
• They have the easiest mobile detection, something that can be built and put with an army and forgotten about so it makes a new Protoss player slightly more resistant to cloak or burrow play.
• They have the warp in ability to be able to respond almost immediately to harss tech they should have scouted, especially at low levels where macro is likely to have slipped.
• Worker management regarding buildings is non existant, you don't have to remember to rebuild them or send them back to work after or protect them to ensure the building finishes you just click and go.
These kind of little things I think make no difference in the grand scheme of things. For a new player, especially in Bronze league I think they make it the 'easiest' race.
All races have strengths and weaknesses. A toss - ball if not properly microed dies, while toss macro is easier. Zerg armies can be a-moved, but zerg macro is hard, etc. etc.
On May 27 2011 21:03 Valikyr wrote: Dumbest thread ever. All races have easy builds and strategys as well as hard ones. Many zergs at this forum I see. Baneling busting and ling + roach all-ins sure do require a lot of skill...
Requires more skill than stim pushing and 4gate, yet is not even close to as effective.
Not saying the tactics aren't easy, just saying that a newb is probably going to get farther in the ladder by using a standard bio or gateway push than by doing zerg allins which are weak unless they are pulled off almost perfectly and are comparable to cheese in how hard it is to get back if it fails.
The fundamental problem with a thread like this is that people will look to it and cite it as evidence. But just because a majority of people think that one race is easier or harder or imba or whatnot doesn't make it so. I suppose it is interesting to find out what peoples opinion is but please remember reality isn't democratic.
One may consider the most potential to be "easy" whereas others just wants strong units overall or less mechanically demanding... One may like more detectors in their race while some don't consider it necessary...
I voted zerg because if you know how to scout, it's easiest to respond to what your opponent is doing while maintaining good economy. At lower levels, protoss and terran might seem easier, but truly zerg is the most forgiving race.
On May 27 2011 21:03 Valikyr wrote: Dumbest thread ever. All races have easy builds and strategys as well as hard ones. Many zergs at this forum I see. Baneling busting and ling + roach all-ins sure do require a lot of skill...
Requires more skill than stim pushing and 4gate, yet is not even close to as effective.
Not saying the tactics aren't easy, just saying that a newb is probably going to get farther in the ladder by using a standard bio or gateway push than by doing zerg allins which are weak unless they are pulled off almost perfectly and are comparable to cheese in how hard it is to get back if it fails.
I consider Zerg the easiest, but I think that's just because I never played the campaign and have been a zerg since like 1997. The other two races are just too different and I suck with both.
Each race is difficult because SC2 is difficult to play at an optimal level. ;o
Tactics are what are 'easy or hard', but it's more like 'simple or advanced'. Terran, I think, has the most effective 'simple' strategies i.e. mass marine or the abundance of one-base timings that require the least developed management mechanics to execute.
Terran is the safest race, especially in early game, due to some factors such as complete wall off, tier 1 ranged/anti-air units and emergency scan for scouting or detecting purposes. That makes it the ideal race for beginners.
Protoss could be the easiest since the most effective strategies in the lower leagues are either 4-gating or some sort of turtling to form a deathball wich needs little to no micro. At higher level it's a bit different, mainly due to blink stalker micro and high templars.
On a side note, I miss the old void ray and the very need to charge it... seemed so much more interesting.
Protoss is the easiest, Terran is the hardest. Late game Terran is very hard to macro with, the only reason I don't say Zerg is the hardest is because of the late game. Macroing with one hotkey for all your production is really easy, and injecting is more of a routine thing. It's not too hard to pull off after some practice and you don't even have to be very fast to keep your income at a reasonable level. The hardest part about Zerg is knowing when to drone and after some experience, you can overcome that, mechanically it's not very difficult at all. Maybe it's just because I've played Zerg for too long but that's just what I feel.
That's the reason I play toss, because their mechanics and macro style was easier for me. I never could get the hang of zerg mechanics (or terran to a lesser degree) and so I started out with toss. Since then I've improved so much with them that I don't want to switch to either of the other races.
I do like zerg a lot, and if I had the skill to play them I might consider switching, but since I'm too much of a noob I'll be sticking with my brotoss.
At a high level eg. masters+grandmasters all the races are very difficult, merely in different ways.
This is a pointless thread as it is only really relevant for like mid-diamond~ and below, where: Protoss is the easiest, then Terran, and then Zerg.
But of course even that relies on the fact that all players are playing a standard game, as all races have some quite potent all-ins.
The Issue with this thread is that; most of the terrans and zergs are gonna say; protoss>terran>zerg while most of the protoss, not wanting to think they play the "easier" race, (even though this is only true at a marginal level, at lower levels) are gonna say, terran>protoss>zerg. As for why anyone would think that Zerg is the easiest race I cannot fathom...
On May 27 2011 18:52 kvmetternich wrote: As a musician the op sounds like "It's harder to learn bass, drum or guitar ?". The noob usually respond "bass". (yes, im a bass and toss player :D)
On May 27 2011 21:36 Rorra wrote: At a high level eg. masters+grandmasters all the races are very difficult, merely in different ways.
This is a pointless thread as it is only really relevant for like mid-diamond~ and below, where: Protoss is the easiest, then Terran, and then Zerg.
But of course even that relies on the fact that all players are playing a standard game, as all races have some quite potent all-ins.
The Issue with this thread is that; most of the terrans and zergs are gonna say; protoss>terran>zerg while most of the protoss, not wanting to think they play the "easier" race, (even though this is only true at a marginal level, at lower levels) are gonna say, terran>protoss>zerg. As for why anyone would think that Zerg is the easiest race I cannot fathom...
I randomed up to plat and I'd say Zerg can definitely be easiest. Persistently scout and overdefend. Everyone's macro at this level is completely subpar so making a shitload of extra units doesn't hurt you at all and being able to crank out enough drones to saturate a base all at once is totally great.
I think the 'easy' scale really needs to be put into context. You can't just generalize everything in starcraft 2, since thereare different skill levels and different areas of the game, like early/mid/late.
When it comes right down to winning a 1v1 match I'd have to say Protoss has the best chance to win. Simply because Protoss has the ability to make such powerful units where if you make one or two of said unit, it can be the difference between winning and losing.
the recent Fruitdealer vs Ace where Fruitdealer was way way way ahead of Ace. He played excellently and countered many things that ace did very well. His big blunder was that he did not account for the fact that he had 0 anti air. So 2 voidrays essentially won the game for Ace. It was an incredible comeback and macro/micro-wise...pretty easy for protoss to pull off. Being smart and safe payed off for Ace even though he made several micro mistakes earlier in the game.
In low level play there is a general idea of "If i get this unit out early, and he can't counter it, I win easily" For terran, it's the banshee, or for toss it's the dt to name a few. Zerg has the muta, which allows you to harass the mineral line and may get you a win like this, but there really is no other unit which allows you to win straight up like this for zerg. In higher level play (with the exception of ZvZ) saying that "oh i'll rush to mutas and hopefully he won't have any anti-air) is a pretty laughable idea since it's quite easy to see a zerg's tech path. There's a spire. oh..mutas.
This is just but one of the dozens of factors that decide whether or not a race is 'easy'.
One of the most important factors to consider is that each race is played different for each matchup. Depending on how you as a player, actually play the game, will decide what race will be easiest for you.
From my experience the majority of random players choose toss. Why is this I wonder. I think it's because since they played all the races they understand the idea of what timing is. They will play each race similarly, trying to do timing attacks with X unit composition and seeing how it works out. Now since Protoss timing attacks are, arguably the strongest in the game (4gate, even after patch is still very strong), it is only natural that a random player will want to be protoss since timing attacks can be effective all the way to the GSL.
Doing all-ins means you don't have to worry very much about what your opponent is doing. It either works or not.
----to answer the question:.
Protoss is the easiest race to get used to. The macro is pretty intuitive as far as gateway units. Too much gas, sentries, too much minerals, zealots, and stalkers for inbetween. ie it's easy to keep your money low. Macro does require attention though, clicking to warp in units is something that no other race has to do. This means that if you are attacking you cannot simultaenously warp in units as easily.
Terran is the easiest to get high rated with. Terran has marines, a unit which never becomes useless, mules which are simply amazing for getting minerals and hence marines. Terran's units are also the most micro-able. Zergs unit's are generally too fast to do any game changing micro+ Show Spoiler +
The automaton 2000 illustrates this very well. Marine micro can be done by humans to a very impressive skill level, enough to make marines cost effective against banelings. But you will never see Zerglings micro'd well enough to take out large amounts of seige tanks like the automaton 2000 did. It's just far too fast for anyone to do........yet:D
and protoss units are large and clunky which makes optimal micro harder. Coupled with the fact that almost everything moves at the same speed, Terran can make the most out of its army. Macro for a terran is also easier in the sense that it doesn't require specific attention. Zerg has one choice what to make out of each larva. Protoss has 1 choice what to warp in. Terran can queue up an army. Now this has it's disadvantages and advantages of course but as far as 'easy' goes, Terran macro requires the least thought and effort.
Zerg has the easiest mechanics. Having large amounts of minerals/gas is less taxing on a zerg player since zerg can spend it very fast. Zerg also has the easiest micro. Virtually all zerg attack units can be 'a moved' if you think about it because it isn't micro that is important for zerg, it's the unit composition and the army engagement that's more important. Getting an economy going for zerg is what the race excels at so it is also the most resilient race when it comes to losing bases.
At the Lower levels Protoss is the easiest followed by Terran of course this all changes the higher up you get as each race has it's own strengths and weaknesses.
for non prolevel play: terranmicro+macro requires a lot of training zerg requires a TON of gamesense, and you will die extremly often because you did/did not produce units over drones. Protoss feels a little easier, as you can just blindly play a shitton of different tactics, without really caring what your opponent does and still have a decent success rate for non prolevel play:
I'll personally never understand why threads like this pop up. Each race has their own hurdles they need to cross some easier or harder than other races depending on the context. It astonishes me that so many people just automatically peg Protoss easiest due to one or two mechanics that i've read in people's posts.
I personally believe it's a lot harder to establish if a race is "easy" or "hard" than the brief reasons people have given here. Not only that, but also with the amount of routes each race can take, the amount of styles people can play with any given race, who are you (i.e. anyone) to say that a race is easy based on what will probably be bias nonsense or lack of in-depth thought.
: / bad thread, sort of reminds of something you'd see on a WoW forum (e.g. which class is easiest to play!) -_-
A bad player will do better with protoss than he will with terran or zerg, just because protoss doesnt require you to do as much as terran or zerg does.
As for why anyone would think that Zerg is the easiest race I cannot fathom...
Well, zerg units are pretty much a-move and their lategame macro is very easy and enjoyable compared to other races. The one thing thats holding them back is early game timings and harasses.
Not saying that they are the easiest, but I could see someone think this way. Like many have said, all races have their easy and difficult parts.
On May 27 2011 21:29 Shahrazad wrote: I voted zerg because if you know how to scout, it's easiest to respond to what your opponent is doing while maintaining good economy. At lower levels, protoss and terran might seem easier, but truly zerg is the most forgiving race.
How can a race where one mistakes means you die be most forgiving O.o?
I agree that zerg has the easiest time responding as long as the player is scouting well, but how is that forgiving?
Zerg is the only race where you can play really well and still lose to someone bad because of one decision which wasn't directly bad. Say the opponent has a bit of his army hidden. You scout his army, see that it's ok and drone one cycle. He comes with everything he has and you die without any chance of defending. You scouted and you responded appropriately, yet you die.
If a protoss makes a similar mistake, they can fallback and use forcefields to stall for time, but unless zerg has infestors, there's no way to stall or defend. You fight and hope to god you can get enough lings out in time to destroy his army which was bigger than you accounted for.
Depends on what you think is ''easy''. I believe the macro while battling for example is easier for zergs because imo zerg requires the least amounts of micro. I also think that toss is the eAsier race to get into but it gets more difficult on the way up. Terran's multitaskin play is very demanding but it is not the only way to play.
In general I think zerg is the easiest race, because now that the " just allin him " days have passed they have the best "mechanics" if you will. Making 14 drones at once is just an amazing thing to be able to do. Even the so-called difficulty which is injecting can be nullified by macro hatches. Couple that with the possibility to make a ton of drones after being harassed pretty much makes it my opinion.
On May 27 2011 21:36 Rorra wrote: At a high level eg. masters+grandmasters all the races are very difficult, merely in different ways.
This is a pointless thread as it is only really relevant for like mid-diamond~ and below, where: Protoss is the easiest, then Terran, and then Zerg.
But of course even that relies on the fact that all players are playing a standard game, as all races have some quite potent all-ins.
The Issue with this thread is that; most of the terrans and zergs are gonna say; protoss>terran>zerg while most of the protoss, not wanting to think they play the "easier" race, (even though this is only true at a marginal level, at lower levels) are gonna say, terran>protoss>zerg. As for why anyone would think that Zerg is the easiest race I cannot fathom...
I randomed up to plat and I'd say Zerg can definitely be easiest. Persistently scout and overdefend. Everyone's macro at this level is completely subpar so making a shitload of extra units doesn't hurt you at all and being able to crank out enough drones to saturate a base all at once is totally great.
I'll admit I didn't consider something like that as the issue is that if you become accustomed, "being able to scout" or sacking to many overlords, or rather more particularly if you become used to over defending(and assuming you'll still come out ahead), it could really hamper your improvement, I had assumed that as well as playing a standard game, you would have the goal of improving, though I realize not everyone has this goal.
The other issue is that I'd consider over-defending, if you don't have a strong economy running a fault in play as opposed to something making it easier to win as zerg. The issue with you point implying this is that you mention that as zerg, other players macro has been subpar when comparable, this kind of supports the idea that you have to have stronger fundamental skill, at least macro/mechanically w/ zerg to compete at that level, this implies that zerg is more difficult
Edit: Ok I see you might mean that everyone's macro is supar including the zergs, and that the extra money being floated is what allows the zerg to over-defend. Though to be honest the reality is that players are still equally bad at their macro in that situation, so its almost technically just as easy for Protoss to throw down a few extra wargates to make up for the difference. besides while macro is definitely the main thing holding back lower level players, it simply isn't the only thing to be considered.
On May 27 2011 21:02 Bagi wrote: The one thing that made me vote for protoss was the fact that they can play extremely passive.
Both terrans and zergs have to work their ass off to hinder the protoss building up their army. Good harass and multipronged attacks are essential, and that stuff takes alot of multitasking. Protoss harass options on the other hand feel almost detrimental, and why would you harass if you don't have to? Just build up your army and defend your bases, your army will be better anyway.
When a zerg or terran beats a protoss, it actually feels like they worked hard to outplay them. When a protoss player wins, it often feels like they did nothing special, just massed up their ball and threw a couple of forcefields.
Yes I realize this is an overly simplified look at things, but theres some truth in it too imho.
This probably explains the whole thing about Protoss. They have too much firepower in mid to late game, while they have too little in early game. There has to be a balance.
On May 27 2011 21:29 Shahrazad wrote: I voted zerg because if you know how to scout, it's easiest to respond to what your opponent is doing while maintaining good economy. At lower levels, protoss and terran might seem easier, but truly zerg is the most forgiving race.
How can a race where one mistakes means you die be most forgiving O.o?
I agree that zerg has the easiest time responding as long as the player is scouting well, but how is that forgiving?
Zerg is the only race where you can play really well and still lose to someone bad because of one decision which wasn't directly bad. Say the opponent has a bit of his army hidden. You scout his army, see that it's ok and drone one cycle. He comes with everything he has and you die without any chance of defending. You scouted and you responded appropriately, yet you die.
If a protoss makes a similar mistake, they can fallback and use forcefields to stall for time, but unless zerg has infestors, there's no way to stall or defend. You fight and hope to god you can get enough lings out in time to destroy his army which was bigger than you accounted for.
That zerg response is actually NOT correct. You scout the army, but unless you know the timings of your opponent really well, and you don't see any extra tech or expos, you actually don't know if you saw his entire army. Say, if you see his first medivacs pop out at around 9 mins after an early expo, like in the last daily, you KNOW that he does not have a third and that he went for the starport quickly after he took his expo. In your example, the information provided did not give any certainty whatsoever, and thus droning for an entire cycle was actually an extremely risky move.
I believe the races to be about equal in difficulty, but unequal in the skills needed to be succesfull.
As a player who's played both Zerg and Terran to diamond level now I feel that zerg is easier on the lower levels due to people not knowing how to split units correctly, making infestors and banelings extremely good vs pretty much anything.
Most terran/protosses don't really know how to react to mutalisks neither and either overcommit to turrets or just sit in their base while the zerg can take the rest of the map. I think that Zergs pretty much get free wins vs clueless terrans, while protoss gets free wins vs zerg that are clueless, TvP in the lower leagues can shift so much so I can't really say, personally I never had any trouble vs protoss as I had a good build to use as T...
On diamond-master level I feel that Zerg is probably the hardest in terms of general gameplay, you need good gamesense etc, otherwise you'll end up dead.
I feel that Terran is the most micro intensive race, constantly splitting your units, attacking on multiple fronts is basically standard as terran (drops everywhere etc) and keeping up with the money gain that you get through mules can be hard for anyone below diamond...
I don't have much to say about protoss, I'd say that if you make it to 3 bases and late-game it's probably the easiest race to play at high level, you have tons of AoE and unless your opponent is good at spreading out, getting a good concave etc he'll get obliterated in a matter of seconds...
At top level I feel that every race is hard to play really, you see some people such as Cruncher mass up a superdeathball and roll over his opponent, I don't have much to say about that but other then that I feel that every race seems quite challenging at the top level, nobody can say that Terran micro is "easy", you can't just say "split", there's a reason MKP does such good splits and others dont; he's fucking good.
one last thing: I have a much easier time macroing as a zerg, personally I use the backspace inject method and it works out wonders, as a terran I feel it's much harder to balance and spend all your resources, you can spend all your money on a certain amount of raxes and suddenly when you get another base you get a huge income of money etc, unless you know how many production facilities to add for each gas/mineral you saturate it can be hard imho!
If I was as much of a troll as the people you are trying to attract with that kind of thread, I'd answer that your mom's the easiest race.
But of course I'm not a troll, so I'll say that Protoss is probably the easiest race to learn, but all races are about as hard(or easy, whatever you prefer, my glass is half full)to be competitive with.
There are random GM players that play each race well, but are outmatched when pitted against pro players. The random GM now plays a game series against a pro (e.g. Idra), the following rules: - The random player picks a race that would result in a non-mirror match. - After each games both players swap races. - Whoever wins two games in a row shall be declared the winner of the series.
Using multiple random players and multiple pros it should be possible to start statistics on how easy a race is to play at high level.
On May 27 2011 18:37 freetgy wrote: Terran just may feel easier cause it is the safest races due to their design. (good defensiv options, cost effective Units)
oO, with the bunker compared to the photon canon and the spine crawlers and the 200/200 losing to both other races, I feel that terran has the less cost effectives units and the less good defensive options.
Not saying terran is weak, but your point is false.
On May 27 2011 18:43 DarthXX wrote: Pointless thread >< its like asking what everybody's favourite unit is.
I think that thread idea is good, if you can make a long-enough poll.
On May 27 2011 18:34 TENTHST wrote: So I bounce back and forth to and from the Blizzard Forums sometimes and I have come across a large number of threads stating "(insert race) is ez and (insert race) is hard". Then, of course, there will be the obligatory "no noob. l2p. (insert race) is 10x harder than (insert race)." And as there is no poll option on the Blizzard Forums, I wanted to get an idea of where the TL community stands on this issue.
"Easiest" meaning a combination of both Macro and Micro multi-tasking. Try to look at it generally and make your decision.
Preferably just vote in the poll and move on. However, if you have a specific reason to post, then do so at your own risk. I can see how this might get out of hand, so try to keep it as objective as possible. I'm interested in this purely for the statistical data.
Poll: Overall, which race do you consider the easiest?
Protoss (556)
61%
Terran (252)
27%
Zerg (109)
12%
917 total votes
Your vote: Overall, which race do you consider the easiest?
Personally, I would rank Terran as the easiest race. Small characteristics like Supply Drop, a generalized 2.25 move speed, Planetarys and no-cooldown MULES are the basis of my opinion. However the micro requirements of Terran in certain matchups is high (namely T v Z and T v T).
Of course, many think that the lessened micro requirements of Zerg define it as easy. I disagree because of the larva inject requirement, and the uselessness of mass melee units, but thats just me. I agree that the fact that you can catch up on macro with 1 or 2 larva cycles enables a wider range of "all-ins" possible, which allows for more flexibility in builds.
And I'm also beginning to see a lot of "toss = ezmode" thrown around recently, and I totally disagree. The fact that tier 1 and 2 units move at different speeds, as well as have varying ranges, make Protoss more difficult that I think some people are giving it credit for. Micro with toss, aside from Colossus micro, is relatively taxing; having your Zealots in front, or your Sentrys in range, or your Immortal not being blocked by Stalkers can be the difference between a win or a loss.
another thread asking for flame - why admins let threads like this go unpunished i simply cannot understand. no race is easy, each has its difficulties but ofc we all know that whiners will gather here like ants to compare dick sizes and complain over nothing.
It's not because I genuinely believe they are easier than others, but they complement my play style much better than the others. I have absolutely no problems larva injecting or spreading creep, and I like the ability to 'correct' minor macro slip-ups by buying slightly more expensive units with my larva.
On May 27 2011 21:36 Rorra wrote: At a high level eg. masters+grandmasters all the races are very difficult, merely in different ways.
This is a pointless thread as it is only really relevant for like mid-diamond~ and below, where: Protoss is the easiest, then Terran, and then Zerg.
But of course even that relies on the fact that all players are playing a standard game, as all races have some quite potent all-ins.
The Issue with this thread is that; most of the terrans and zergs are gonna say; protoss>terran>zerg while most of the protoss, not wanting to think they play the "easier" race, (even though this is only true at a marginal level, at lower levels) are gonna say, terran>protoss>zerg. As for why anyone would think that Zerg is the easiest race I cannot fathom...
I randomed up to plat and I'd say Zerg can definitely be easiest. Persistently scout and overdefend. Everyone's macro at this level is completely subpar so making a shitload of extra units doesn't hurt you at all and being able to crank out enough drones to saturate a base all at once is totally great.
I'll admit I didn't consider something like that as the issue is that if you become accustomed, "being able to scout" or sacking to many overlords, or rather more particularly if you become used to over defending(and assuming you'll still come out ahead), it could really hamper your improvement, I had assumed that as well as playing a standard game, you would have the goal of improving, though I realize not everyone has this goal.
The other issue is that I'd consider over-defending, if you don't have a strong economy running a fault in play as opposed to something making it easier to win as zerg. The issue with you point implying this is that you mention that as zerg, other players macro has been subpar when comparable, this kind of supports the idea that you have to have stronger fundamental skill, at least macro/mechanically w/ zerg to compete at that level, this implies that zerg is more difficult
I see what you're getting at but I meant to imply that the ability to make so much of anything all at once (all from the same hotkey, too [and like terran, you don't have to stop watching a fight to do it]) allows you to come back from macro pitfalls rather easily if you survive timing attacks. The assertion of 'subpar macro' was absolute, not comparable. ;o
On May 27 2011 18:37 freetgy wrote: Terran just may feel easier cause it is the safest races due to their design. (good defensiv options, cost effective Units)
oO, with the bunker compared to the photon canon and the spine crawlers and the 200/200 losing to both other races, I feel that terran has the less cost effectives units and the less good defensive options.
Not saying terran is weak, but your point is false.
Bunker isn't comparable to a spine crawler. Not only do you lose the worker building the spine, you can't just sell it and get 75% of the minerals back. Once that spine is down, you can't change your mind when your opponent decides to play economically instead of aggressive.
There is very little commitment in a bunker, but a big commitment in a spine.
As for 200/200 armies, I think that discussion is moot. From a mathematical perspective a zerg 200 army is the weakest, but it means nothing when you're talking a real battle since composition, micro and engagement means everything. A mass ling army will barely put a dent in a proper marine/tank 200 army from terran, but a properly microed broodlord, infestor, roach composition will easily ruin the same army.
This thread should be re-named "Which race do you hate losing to the most because you either hate it or you perceive it as having some cheesy abilities.
On May 27 2011 18:37 freetgy wrote: Terran just may feel easier cause it is the safest races due to their design. (good defensiv options, cost effective Units)
oO, with the bunker compared to the photon canon and the spine crawlers and the 200/200 losing to both other races, I feel that terran has the less cost effectives units and the less good defensive options.
Not saying terran is weak, but your point is false.
On May 27 2011 18:43 DarthXX wrote: Pointless thread >< its like asking what everybody's favourite unit is.
I think that thread idea is good, if you can make a long-enough poll.
Marines are one of the most cost efficient, dps/mineral unit in the game, while bunkers are salvageable. I suppose the only thing lacking for terran is static defense that can attack ground, although planetary fortress can be used to much greater effect later in the game.
Dont see how anyone can say without having experiance with all 3 races at the highest level.
From my view as a Terran player, Protoss seems the most difficult because its so micro-intensive, having to use forcefields, keeping zealots in front etc. The heavy-macro style of Zerg seems far more appealing to me.
A lot will say Terran is the easiest but IMO TvZ and TvT are both difficult match-ups. I know a lot of Zerg players will say differently, but TvZ is very micro-intensive for the Terran player, leap-frogging tanks and spreading marines. TvT is a frigging nightmare to play at times. I excluded TvP from this because Bio is a lot easier to play then Marine-Tank, though not as powerful and frankly somewhat boring.
EPT
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