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On April 23 2011 01:27 squizl wrote:
I feel most people just took Blizzard's idea of slightly changing the PvP matchup, as a sure confirmation of their intent to nerf Protoss. You're all just spewing out ideas on how to nerf warpgate mechanic, when no one ever said it was actually imbalanced anywhere but in PvP.
Putting the upgrade on Twilight Council, limiting the range of warpin, allowing it only with warp prisms etc.??? What are you people smoking? Might as well put stim and concussive shells on ghost academy, and allow roach and ling speed only with lair tech. Warpin is a cornerstone Protoss mechanic, it's one of the main reasons why their units are weaker than their T1 counterparts, and you want to nerf it still? Seriously?
Next patch is probably still some time away, and I'm almost certain the metagame will shift by the time they bring the ptr up, but even if they slightly change the timings in PvP I feel they should refrain from making any bigger changes to warptech like some of you would want.
I know you're new here, but I wouldn't come into the scene with guns blazin' like that. Ease your way in. It's better that way.
Secondly, the whole "Protoss Tier 1 is Weakest" myth needs to be put to rest. Zealot Sentry Stalker is a very, very powerful combination. So is Marine Marauder, so is Ling Bane Roach. They all have pros and cons emphasized by different mechanics.
Warpgate attacks wouldn't be a huge problem if the Protoss Tier 1 was in fact the weakest. I think what you're perceiving is the various timings (upgrades, spawn locations, unit selection, etc ...) where advantages change in each matchup and focusing on the windows where you are vulnerable.
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On April 23 2011 01:30 happyness wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 17:42 Cajun2k1 wrote:
Didn't they already increase buildtime for gateways because they found 2 gate to be too strong? With bigger maps being used now, 2 gate isn't a huge problem.
i don't understand this sentiment. if you spawn close position or play on a map like xelnaga, proxy rushes will be very difficult to hold. do people not understand the power of gateways making units faster than WG? It is like a WG rush, only you don't have to wait for WG research! You're gateway becomes the WG "proxy pylon".
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Why not just make warpgate not researchable until 5 minutes or something like that and make gateway units come out at the same speed as warpgate units? Feel like this would fix the matchup and not affect anything else.
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On April 22 2011 17:46 dezi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 17:39 AndAgain wrote:
Wait a sec, so will gateways now have faster build times than warpgate cooldowns? I think the might decrease the no-warp-time by 5sec each or sth. like this. I would prefer to see the warp technology removed and the up only giving the decreased buildtimes. No more off pylon warpin (maybe only allow this at warp prisms > makes them so much more usefull) and one could also give the Amulet back to the Toss (no instant storms cause you now have to build "normal").
Removing warp in is pretty stupid, you pretty much cancel how protoss is build and how it differ to the other races. Protoss will be just like Terran without warp ins.
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Lol, why are you guys so afraid of 2 gate pressure? I remember it from beta when it was decent and it was still a risky build. That's how rushes should be. Risky. As of right now a 4 gate is relatively safe so I don't mind if toss go for a very scoutable 2 gate pressure build. Proxy or not.
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Hmm going to be interesting to see how this works out because right now defending the 4 gate Isn't nearly as much as a problem as being able to scout if your opponent is going blink/robo/stargate.
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On April 23 2011 01:38 Attica wrote:
Lol, why are you guys so afraid of 2 gate pressure? I remember it from beta when it was decent and it was still a risky build. That's how rushes should be. Risky. As of right now a 4 gate is relatively safe so I don't mind if toss go for a very scoutable 2 gate pressure build. Proxy or not.
maybe cuz the zealot hits much faster....lol
this is not the 2 gate of the beta days if this change goes into effect. lol
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sounds interesting esp. the part where they say 'nothin is final just yet'
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I've been wondering why they haven't increased the research time of warp gate for awhile now. I don't play enough protoss to really know, but I think if they made it take 30 seconds or a minute longer it would make PvP a LOT more fun and it wouldn't exactly break the other matchups. I don't think there are that many times where you are praying for your warp gate to finish. When that does happen, I think the situation could have probably been avoided (make gateways earlier? I don't really know). I think this would also make team games more fun.
But again I play Z so what do I know.
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On April 23 2011 01:37 DarkRise wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 17:46 dezi wrote:On April 22 2011 17:39 AndAgain wrote:
Wait a sec, so will gateways now have faster build times than warpgate cooldowns? I think the might decrease the no-warp-time by 5sec each or sth. like this. I would prefer to see the warp technology removed and the up only giving the decreased buildtimes. No more off pylon warpin (maybe only allow this at warp prisms > makes them so much more usefull) and one could also give the Amulet back to the Toss (no instant storms cause you now have to build "normal"). Removing warp in is pretty stupid, you pretty much cancel how protoss is build and how it differ to the other races. Protoss will be just like Terran without warp ins.
Warp in doesn't define Protoss. Saying it does is ludicrous.
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On April 23 2011 01:33 TimeSpiral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 01:27 squizl wrote:
I feel most people just took Blizzard's idea of slightly changing the PvP matchup, as a sure confirmation of their intent to nerf Protoss. You're all just spewing out ideas on how to nerf warpgate mechanic, when no one ever said it was actually imbalanced anywhere but in PvP.
Putting the upgrade on Twilight Council, limiting the range of warpin, allowing it only with warp prisms etc.??? What are you people smoking? Might as well put stim and concussive shells on ghost academy, and allow roach and ling speed only with lair tech. Warpin is a cornerstone Protoss mechanic, it's one of the main reasons why their units are weaker than their T1 counterparts, and you want to nerf it still? Seriously?
Next patch is probably still some time away, and I'm almost certain the metagame will shift by the time they bring the ptr up, but even if they slightly change the timings in PvP I feel they should refrain from making any bigger changes to warptech like some of you would want. I know you're new here, but I wouldn't come into the scene with guns blazin' like that. Ease your way in. It's better that way. Secondly, the whole "Protoss Tier 1 is Weakest" myth needs to be put to rest. Zealot Sentry Stalker is a very, very powerful combination. So is Marine Marauder, so is Ling Bane Roach. They all have pros and cons emphasized by different mechanics. Warpgate attacks wouldn't be a huge problem if the Protoss Tier 1 was in fact the weakest. I think what you're perceiving is the various timings (upgrades, spawn locations, unit selection, etc ...) where advantages change in each matchup and focusing on the windows where you are vulnerable.
Very true. In fact it seems like people complain about P T1 being weak when they are going against upgraded T1 w/out their own upgrades (stim/conc, ling speed/roach speed, vs no charge/blink). P T1 is more than fine.
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This is sooooooooooo dumb 4gate is a viable build in every matchup and if you scout it should be stoppable even for protoss. As soon as people work out new strats with the nerf people will still complain and then we will get a build time nerf and warpgate nerf. Theyre just doing it this way to appease the masses. Stop trying to change the game 4 gate is fine and if you can't hold it you are doing it wrong.
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On April 23 2011 01:41 Neo.NEt wrote:
I've been wondering why they haven't increased the research time of warp gate for awhile now. I don't play enough protoss to really know, but I think if they made it take 30 seconds or a minute longer it would make PvP a LOT more fun and it wouldn't exactly break the other matchups. I don't think there are that many times where you are praying for your warp gate to finish. When that does happen, I think the situation could have probably been avoided (make gateways earlier? I don't really know). I think this would also make team games more fun.
But again I play Z so what do I know.
in a pvp having that WG research finish asap is life or death.
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China6331 Posts
How about proxy pylons dont provide power field up the ramp even if you have vision?
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On April 23 2011 01:42 jackalope1234 wrote:
This is sooooooooooo dumb 4gate is a viable build in every matchup and if you scout it should be stoppable even for protoss. As soon as people work out new strats with the nerf people will still complain and then we will get a build time nerf and warpgate nerf. Theyre just doing it this way to appease the masses. Stop trying to change the game 4 gate is fine and if you can't hold it you are doing it wrong.
I hope you realize that this change isn't about 4gate in every matchup. They're trying to fix the PvP matchup where it's a 4gate rush to tech every single game. Trying to deviate from this and play a macro game is an auto-loss.
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On April 22 2011 17:59 Whiplash wrote:
I think the best way to fix this is just make it so your opponent can't warp in on your opponent's pylon power radius, that way a bit of sim city could counter 4 warp gate.
lol ok so how do u suggest warping in on your own pylon power radius then? .... some of your own pylons would be made useless by trying to stop his pylons from being usable etc
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On April 23 2011 01:45 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 01:42 jackalope1234 wrote:
This is sooooooooooo dumb 4gate is a viable build in every matchup and if you scout it should be stoppable even for protoss. As soon as people work out new strats with the nerf people will still complain and then we will get a build time nerf and warpgate nerf. Theyre just doing it this way to appease the masses. Stop trying to change the game 4 gate is fine and if you can't hold it you are doing it wrong. I hope you realize that this change isn't about 4gate in every matchup. They're trying to fix the PvP matchup where it's a 4gate rush to tech every single game. Trying to deviate from this and play a macro game is an auto-loss.
I hope you realize warp gate time increase delays 4gate in every matchup still.
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On April 23 2011 01:05 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
i hope they patch it so that 4 gate is still a good strat just not the only one. i really don't want to see 50 colossus war games in a row.
haha you'd rather see 50 4 gates in a row?
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Hope they won't make zealot building time faster than marine's
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On April 23 2011 01:49 leo23 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 01:05 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
i hope they patch it so that 4 gate is still a good strat just not the only one. i really don't want to see 50 colossus war games in a row. haha you'd rather see 50 4 gates in a row?
Seriously did you even read the one and a half lines he wrote?
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EPT
