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Well, dunno if it was worth a new topic, but for me it is xD
Kapeselus said in the Battle.net forums
Hello to you, Protoss players. I am coming with a gift of information that some of you may find interesting!
We have been looking into the 4gate issue and our designers have played with a lot of different fixes and changes, even those that were not strictly numbers related. While strong, 4gate is a lesser problem in other matchups, but we recognize that PvP is a different story.
Just throwing a nerf bat at warpgates would make protoss weak in early game. This is why we are currently looking at increasing warpgate research time, while at the same time compensating for it with reducing build time of protoss tier 1-1.5 units (though build times reduced only for gateways, cooldowns will stay the same for warpgates). This is an example of a fix you may see, but our developers plan to explore further options, before the patch officially hits.
We will address 4gate in the next patch.
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1971759389?page=2
Time to discuss...!!
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Hmm.. i have to think hard about this..
I understand that this might favor gateways in certain situations over warpgates.. but how does this "not affect" warpgates vs other races..?
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Wait a sec, so will gateways now have faster build times than warpgate cooldowns?
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but what happens then to the highly entertaining, difficult to pull off 4 gate rush strategy?
i don't want to lose that tool, and i guess no spectator either =(
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United Kingdom16704 Posts
Good to hear they're actively trying a find a solution but I have a feeling that old habits will die hard even with a nerf.
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great news. considering the current state of pvp it can only get better from here. 
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Weird that they mention tier 1 (zealot only) as they nerfed its build time previously.
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Didn't they already increase buildtime for gateways because they found 2 gate to be too strong?
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inb4 2 gate cheese every game.
User was warned for this post
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Sounds kinda awesome in theory.
But also sounds too technical to really discuss without exact numbers of what's being changed to what.
It IS true that after a certain point in the game, not having warp gate researched is just stupid. A change like that might make it okay to delay warp gate research in favor of other tech.
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On April 22 2011 17:42 kNyTTyM wrote:
Weird that they mention tier 1 (zealot only) as they nerfed its build time previously.
You're being too pedantic. By Tier 1 I think it is safe to assume they meant Z/S/S.
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For me this is definitely thread-worthy, hope this stays open, even though it's obviously a borderline speculative matter. But just to have a thread to collect updates on this issue is nice.
I've said it over and over again that only warpgate tech can really fix the PvP problem...nevertheless I also said that this would basicly mean that the whole protoss gateway-unit-arsenal had to be rebalanced. Seems like they are really trying to do just that. If they go through with this, the change is gonna be H U G E.
The first thought that popped into my mind was that 2 gate pressure vs zerg could have a revival.
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i would love the fact if gateways actually produced (slightly) faster than warpgates but warpgates have the bonus of the units appearing where you want them.
Never really liked the warpgate function when i offrace since i come from a broodwar background and i would love it if gateways were actually viable beyond the warpgate research timing!
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Wowowowow. I always wanted the Gateway to build faster than the Warpgate. Then you actually make a decision if you want to have Gateways or Warpgates plus defender gets a big advantage! I hope this works :O
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On April 22 2011 17:43 SeaSwift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 17:42 kNyTTyM wrote:
Weird that they mention tier 1 (zealot only) as they nerfed its build time previously. You're being too pedantic. By Tier 1 I think it is safe to assume they meant Z/S/S.
Not when they said 1-1.5
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The concept of early game warp technology was a flawed one
1. Warp Tech is required and happens at the beginning of the game
2. Warp Tech removes defenders advantage in terms of production timing / walk distance.
Who could have foreseen that Warp Gate would create rush imbalances
Warp Tech as a lategame upgrade just makes far more sense and fosters macro / skilled games (can't have that). Instead of moving warp gate to a much higher tier instead they have spent the last year balancing around having protoss able to eliminate map distance/size.
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Suggested this weeks ago and people said it was a stupid idea =/
Gateways already SHOULD make units faster than warpgates.
Warpgates should make units SLOWER because it has instant reinforcements. This would allow protoss to even play a macro gateway style where they never even get warpgates because they build units faster off gateways and can defend easier, but cannot be super aggressive.
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dezi
Germany1478 Posts
On April 22 2011 17:39 AndAgain wrote:
Wait a sec, so will gateways now have faster build times than warpgate cooldowns?
I think the might decrease the no-warp-time by 5sec each or sth. like this. I would prefer to see the warp technology removed and the up only giving the decreased buildtimes. No more off pylon warpin (maybe only allow this at warp prisms > makes them so much more usefull) and one could also give the Amulet back to the Toss (no instant storms cause you now have to build "normal").
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expecting alot of Proxy gateways in PVZ early game, Toss is getting even stronger in term of making units in very early game, jesus... PvZ is getting worse
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I think making build times shorter for gatways or longer for warpgates is a good idea.
Warpgates already give you the awesomeness of letting you warp in units anywhere, so there's nothing wrong with having a tradeoff of producing slower than gateways.
Basically that could lead to a defender's advantage where the defender has gateways that produce more quickly while the attacker uses warpgates to offset the distance but can't produce as quickly, leading to a defender with the equal amount of gates (but as gateways without warpgate) having an advantage.
I'd like to see a 3 gateway defending player being on equal ground with a 4 warpgate attacking player. That way you would switch to warpgates only when on the offensive to reinforce while switching to gateways when on the defensive when you need the units in your base and not on the other end of the map.
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EPT
