On April 22 2011 17:45 dacthehork wrote:
Warp Tech as a lategame upgrade just makes far more sense and fosters macro / skilled games (can't have that).

I definitely agree. Though I think Blizz always wanted the warpgate-mechanism to not be something cute but something toss "had" to get...also to balance mid/lategame based on the fact that toss would have warpgate tech at this point.

Nevertheless the post only mentions the change of warpgate tech as a "possibility", so let's not get all overly excited until the patch is announced at least for PTR.

On April 22 2011 17:47 Swad1000 wrote:
Now instead of 4 gate I have to do a quick 2 gate? No thanks.

You realize the only reason 4 gate is so strong is due to the fact that warp-ins completely negate rush distance, yes?
If fast warp-tech isn't viable any more, then macro games will automaticly become more prevalent.

Though PvP would simply get back to the fast one base colossus pushes, wouldn't change the crappy-ness of this match-up all that much.

branflakes14

2082 Posts

April 22 2011 08:50 GMT

#23

First they increase Zealot build time because of rushes, now talk of decreasing Gateway unit construction time? I can't say I agree with this move at all. Simply not allowing units to be warped in far from a Nexus unless at a Warp Prism is a much safer solution than shifting timings around.

surraymb

Austria114 Posts

April 22 2011 08:50 GMT

#24

On April 22 2011 17:48 sleepingdog wrote:
Nevertheless the post only mentions the change of warpgate tech as a "possibility", so let's not get all overly excited until the patch is announced at least for PTR.

yeah even if this is true it's probably gonna be a month or two until we actually see this on the live servers.

nimbim

Germany984 Posts

April 22 2011 08:50 GMT

#25

From the vague description of planned changes I would assume that it would not drastically change the match-up, it will probably just even it out a little bit to make other builds remotely viable.
If the research time for Warpgates gets increased, it will make chrono boosting the upgrade a more serious commitment (hurting your army size or economy).

Even though I do not enjoy 4gate fights, I cannot imagine that mirror match-ups can be "fixed". There will always be the one thing there is no real counter available for (Tanks in TvT or Muta/Ling mobility in BW ZvZ), simply because the races and units are supposed to be unique in SC.

eluv

United States1251 Posts

April 22 2011 08:50 GMT

#26

On April 22 2011 17:42 kNyTTyM wrote:
Weird that they mention tier 1 (zealot only) as they nerfed its build time previously.

Metagame and maps can make a huge difference. Back when 2-gating zerg was the thing to do, the nerf made sense. Really though, it's a perfect example of why they have to be very tentative with any changes while the game is still "unsolved."

L3g3nd_

New Zealand10461 Posts

April 22 2011 08:51 GMT

#27

this is interesting, could make not going warp gate at all viable? and having a terran style macro?

If they decrease normal gate unit build time too much, theres gonna be not much advantage in going warp gate. at points it might be best to morph them back so you can just go 4sssssssss instead of having to look at where youre building, taking your eyes off the battle

Amui

Canada10567 Posts

April 22 2011 08:52 GMT

#28

hmmm metagame changes in that time

- 2gate v zerg was mostly phased out by build time nerf, and for the most part dead with good control/roach buff anyways. Especially since gate-core is better in most cases anyways. A gateway build time reduction would make some new timings pretty good though(theory).

- if you lengthen WG research, then potentially you get 5gate allins instead, stopping probes at 24-26. Key strength of 4wg against ANY tech build in PvP is putting 4 zealots on the high ground to break the ramp, although good simcity + good build might stop it.(possible)

Luoson

New Zealand153 Posts

April 22 2011 08:52 GMT

#29

Wow this is pretty easy to solve, I'm really surprised Blizzard hasnt caught onto something so basic. Stop units being abled to be warped up past a forcefielded ramp. Problem solved.

Seranetho

France91 Posts

April 22 2011 08:53 GMT

#30

It could be interesting if staying à normal gates could be a choice, because the only inconvenient with warpgates is that you can't queue units ... But at a good level of play that's no more an inconvenient since players shouls not queue their unit.
I'm impatient to see the next patchnotes !

AndAgain

United States2621 Posts

April 22 2011 08:53 GMT

#31

On April 22 2011 17:52 Amui wrote:

- if you lengthen WG research, then potentially you get 5gate allins instead, stopping probes at 24-26. Key strength of 4wg against ANY tech build in PvP is putting 4 zealots on the high ground to break the ramp, although good simcity + good build might stop it.(possible)

I doubt it. You'll likely be able to get enough sentries by that time to FF forever.

quentel

349 Posts

April 22 2011 08:54 GMT

#32

Thank God.

Changing warp gate research time is just the nerf I imagined they'd use for a long while now, since Blizzard seems to enjoy using that particular one (stim, etc.)

-orb-

United States5770 Posts

April 22 2011 08:54 GMT

#33

interesting, I wonder if this will affect the other matchups at all in the early game, or if they will actually make the build times shorter than the warpgate times so we can have a choice to make

Seiniyta

Belgium1815 Posts

April 22 2011 08:54 GMT

#34

What I would like to see is when you research warp gates, only then units out of gateways are prduced faster. So this way there isn't the danger of the zealots (vs zerg) being ridicilously fast (though again, the maps are now larger then in the past) but also gives more choice. 'Do I need more units? Or do I want be able to warp units anywere on the map?" it could depend on the situation and would I think create a interesting dynamic.

eviltomahawk

United States11135 Posts

April 22 2011 08:54 GMT

#35

This is an example of a fix you may see, but our developers plan to explore further options, before the patch officially hits.

Although I think the Warp-Gate fix that they described is a decent example of what some people in the community have been clamoring for, I am VERY interested to see the other fixes that Blizzard is looking at. Whatever the fix ends up being, at least it's nice to know that the developers are aware of the insanity that is PvP.

Jakkerr

Netherlands2549 Posts

April 22 2011 08:55 GMT

#36

So lets get this straight,
lets say you don't really wanna move out in early game since ur going eco style.
According to this patch that would mean gateway building time is faster then warpgate cooldown.
We might see a lot of warping and unwarping of gateways since for a macro style it would mean gateway > warpgate and you change ur gateways to warpgates if u wanna pressure ur opponent.
Maybe i'm completely wrong but it does sound quite interesting.

Zzoram

Canada7115 Posts

April 22 2011 08:55 GMT

#37

why not just make warpgate require a twilight council?

Joefish

Germany314 Posts

April 22 2011 08:56 GMT

#38

On April 22 2011 17:45 kNyTTyM wrote:

Show nested quote +

Not when they said 1-1.5

Tier 1.5 are stalker/sentry (you could also consider them as tier 2 but as Seaswift said dont be too pedantic.) It sounds really interesting lowering the build time for gateway units. That would actually make 2gate proxy stronger but dunno to what extent they consider decreasing the build time..
Sounds indeed interesting and looking forward to more pvp variety on ladder

Gorg

Germany261 Posts

April 22 2011 08:56 GMT

#39

the only thing i fear is pvp becomes once again a single colossus arms race.

sleepingdog

Austria6145 Posts

April 22 2011 08:57 GMT

#40

On April 22 2011 17:50 nimbim wrote:
From the vague description of planned changes I would assume that it would not drastically change the match-up, it will probably just even it out a little bit to make other builds remotely viable.

Well, tbh this "would be" a dractic change of the match-up

Because as of right now, people are very close to actually deal with hard 4 gating, we already have the 3 stalker chrono build, the Adel build and kcdc's fast immortal build amongst others. Even a slight nerf of warpgate tech could mean that 4 gate would be 100% defendable with 3 gates + tech structure at all times.

Then THIS would mean that due to the meta game switch, we would slowly work our way towards one gate + tech (again).