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PvP is going to change in the next Patch ! - Page 19

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Avenok
Profile Joined February 2010
United States34 Posts
April 22 2011 14:33 GMT
#361
I think they should move warpgate technology to the Twilight Council. As a Protoss you don't NEED to have the upgrade that early in the game, unless your rushing or cheesing. When it comes to defending [staying alive against early pressure] Protoss can just build their units out of the Gateway at the beginning of the game [You still have chronoboost for making units faster]. If warpgate is moved to the Twilight Council it'll force Protoss to make a decision when to get their warpgate upgrade, right now it's just kind of a "freeby" upgrade that lends itself to cheesy builds especially in PvP.
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
April 22 2011 14:33 GMT
#362
good to know they're trying to fix this up
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-22 14:33:57
April 22 2011 14:33 GMT
#363
On April 22 2011 23:27 Zaros wrote:
I like the idea of making gateways better but i dont like the idea of making warpgates worse, also your not going to really get more units with gateways in the early game seeing as your economy should be allocated properly and you wont be able to afford extra units without reworking the oppenings completely.

I don't think they'd be that much worse, but warpgate cheese would become gradually less effective over time as a defender's gateway unit cycles would be a few seconds more ahead every time.
Samhax
Profile Joined August 2010
1054 Posts
April 22 2011 14:35 GMT
#364
With a change like that you can still in a macro mode, have for example half or 1/3 of your gateways in warp mode to deal with harass or to harass your opponent.
hugman
Profile Joined June 2009
Sweden4644 Posts
April 22 2011 14:36 GMT
#365
On April 22 2011 23:33 Avenok wrote:
I think they should move warpgate technology to the Twilight Council. As a Protoss you don't NEED to have the upgrade that early in the game, unless your rushing or cheesing. When it comes to defending [staying alive against early pressure] Protoss can just build their units out of the Gateway at the beginning of the game [You still have chronoboost for making units faster]. If warpgate is moved to the Twilight Council it'll force Protoss to make a decision when to get their warpgate upgrade, right now it's just kind of a "freeby" upgrade that lends itself to cheesy builds especially in PvP.

I like that, it might make the 6-gate a bit weaker too
raf3776
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1904 Posts
April 22 2011 14:38 GMT
#366
On April 22 2011 23:33 Avenok wrote:
I think they should move warpgate technology to the Twilight Council. As a Protoss you don't NEED to have the upgrade that early in the game, unless your rushing or cheesing. When it comes to defending [staying alive against early pressure] Protoss can just build their units out of the Gateway at the beginning of the game [You still have chronoboost for making units faster]. If warpgate is moved to the Twilight Council it'll force Protoss to make a decision when to get their warpgate upgrade, right now it's just kind of a "freeby" upgrade that lends itself to cheesy builds especially in PvP.

That is a terrible idea. that would just make protoss, terran wish shiny units. I think an easier solution would be to nerf chronoboost research time. to maybe 50% of what it is now so it couldnt be 40 seconds off and only 20.
WWJD (What Would Jaedong Do)
Vessel
Profile Joined June 2010
United States214 Posts
April 22 2011 14:38 GMT
#367
On April 22 2011 23:33 Avenok wrote:
I think they should move warpgate technology to the Twilight Council. As a Protoss you don't NEED to have the upgrade that early in the game, unless your rushing or cheesing. When it comes to defending [staying alive against early pressure] Protoss can just build their units out of the Gateway at the beginning of the game [You still have chronoboost for making units faster]. If warpgate is moved to the Twilight Council it'll force Protoss to make a decision when to get their warpgate upgrade, right now it's just kind of a "freeby" upgrade that lends itself to cheesy builds especially in PvP.


i think some version of this might be a better way to go as well. not sure i like the idea of gateways warping in faster than warpgates.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
April 22 2011 14:39 GMT
#368
I think you do need warpgates early in the game to deal with any cheesy play from the other races, to remove or move warpgate to other tech points will require a huge rework of protoss and i personally think its too late for a move like that.

My advice to blizzard if they want to fix PvP, just dont let pylons warp in on ramps and nerf the collosus and buff other protoss areas.
nalgene
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada2153 Posts
April 22 2011 14:41 GMT
#369
As long as the buff to gateways are applied after warpgate research is done, it'd be pretty interesting. The gateways won't be quicker until then, and vs other races, the first few minutes would still be relatively the same.
Year 2500 Greater Israel ( Bahrain, Cyprus, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Gaza Strip, West Bank, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, Yemen )
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
April 22 2011 14:43 GMT
#370
Thats very interesting, Some pros might actually stop using warpgates if gateways build a bit faster.

Now that would be awesome to watch.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Irrelevant
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2364 Posts
April 22 2011 14:43 GMT
#371
the return of the 3RR + Lings allin!
jombeeno
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States47 Posts
April 22 2011 14:43 GMT
#372
I am not sure what the patch would even do. It all seems hazy to nerf something that is so essential in other match-ups. I guess we will have to wait and see.
Deja Thoris
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa646 Posts
April 22 2011 14:43 GMT
#373
I play random and hate pvp because everytime it's a 4 gate and being a stubborn idiot I refuse to 4 gate back. The matchup needs some variety in it and I'll be glad if the balancing team achieves that.

Bonus points to them if they give it even more variety than a colossus race too.
Striding Strider
Profile Joined February 2011
United Kingdom787 Posts
April 22 2011 14:45 GMT
#374
On April 22 2011 23:38 raf3776 wrote:
That is a terrible idea. that would just make protoss, terran wish shiny units. I think an easier solution would be to nerf chronoboost research time. to maybe 50% of what it is now so it couldnt be 40 seconds off and only 20.


You never played Brood War then?
I have a beard. I'm unprofessional.
PanzerKing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States483 Posts
April 22 2011 14:45 GMT
#375
Some people are complaining that PvP will now revolve around the Colossus. I don't know if they realize that, atm, PvT and PvZ currently revolve around the Colossus as well. The Colossus is such a ridiculously good unit that, if you don't specifically tailor your unit composition to counter it, you will lose. You can't just build an equally-strong army with equivalent units, you have to specifically build units whose sole purpose is to kill the colossus or the rest of your army will be annihilated effortlessly. And that's just awful for game balance, because P have been balanced around the current incarnation of the colossus (so you can't really nerf it without crippling P) but it's such a ridiculous unit that it warps the entire metagame around it like a black hole.
http://tkrmx.blogspot.com/
Pirat6662001
Profile Joined January 2011
Russian Federation949 Posts
April 22 2011 14:46 GMT
#376
Also- I would LOVE this patch if the build time for sentries and stalkers in gateways was decreased, but the zealot time stayed the same. The early rush will not get ridiculously strong, but after minute 3 toss will produce faster
So.. this Earth, nice planet you might say- WRONG!!
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
April 22 2011 14:46 GMT
#377
On April 22 2011 23:43 Sanguinarius wrote:
Thats very interesting, Some pros might actually stop using warpgates if gateways build a bit faster.

Now that would be awesome to watch.

It'll be interesting to say the least, having to choose between faster building units or instant reinforcements
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
TrANCE,
Profile Joined December 2010
301 Posts
April 22 2011 14:49 GMT
#378
On April 22 2011 22:32 Saechiis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 22 2011 22:27 TrANCE, wrote:
tired of retarded protoss players telling terrans to buid other units, omg like your the first person to ever think of that. Any opening thats not bio will lose to 4gate / void rays / blink stalker and transitioning later means zero upgrades, zero production buildings, high likelyness of being runover by 6gate or 2base colossus or anything pretty much. Not to mention chargelots counter ALL mech.


And i'm tired of retarded Terran that don't kno fuckall saying the only way you can win is with mass bio then complaining when you get crushed by Collossus or Hts or even double forge openings.
Don't even pretend like you know everything T can do nobody does it's way to early in the game for that and why has Terran been stuck in this rutt with mass bio play?? because it's the only viable teck path? NO it's that it's the path thats the easiest to play and the most explored since it's been around since beta



In beta mech was standard in TvP, until tanks got nerfed twice, try again. Also, plenty of Terrans are playing mech or biomech nowadays, making your rant sound pretty uninformed.


Siege Tanks was more standard in every mu when they was ridiculously powerful whats your point? try again

Lol what level do you play at where a Terran goes Pure meck TvP this is probley the worst Match up to go pure meck which makes you pretty uninformed.

Bio/meck fair enough I've seen the upward trend of this lately
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
April 22 2011 14:49 GMT
#379
I wonder how this will effect 4 warpgate in other matchups, sounds like you will have a little more time to prepare.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
TimeSpiral
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1010 Posts
April 22 2011 14:49 GMT
#380
My heart is both joyous and worried :/

I've always felt that something was off about Warpgates. But, if anything, PvP is a clear-cut example of how the race is fundamentally flawed. If Pros will gravitate towards the most OP strategies most of time and we see a matchup where it is 99.9% 4 Warpgate attack into either Blink Stalker or Colossus then it seems pretty obvious that something is up.

It never made sense to me that Warpgates reduced build-time, front-loaded the purchasing process, AND eliminated walking distance (with the investment of a single pylon/warp prism). It's just too good. There is almost no risk in opening with a big warpgate attack and we've seen time and time again - a world-class player going up against an under-dog. The under-dog is getting crushed and says, "wow, I really need to take a game off this guy," and busts out a four warpgate attack and makes the world-class player look like a Platinum level scrub.

Sure, Blizzard is saying they are making this change for PvP, but PvP is just the quintessential example of what is wrong with Protoss right now. Any change will have an obvious and dramatic affect on the game. Hopefully it is for the better and not some ridiculously inconsequential nerf/buff.

I'm all for the redesigning of the Warpgate. Good luck, Blizzard. Good luck.
[G] Positioning, Formations, and Tactics: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187892
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