EPTIs Z the hardest race to play at high levels? - Page 7
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Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
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HEROwithNOlegacy
United States850 Posts
On March 24 2011 04:13 Schnullerbacke13 wrote: Yeah, as everyone knows when you are a zerg you are basically wanting to be the cheapest bastard you can be. What I mean by this is you want to make the most drones as possible while making just enough units to hold off certain attacks. Knowing when to drone at the proper times, take an expansion and make units is one of the hallmarks of a great and upcoming zerg player. This is partially what makes playing zerg so difficult is doing all of this while scouting and gathering intel, spreading creep, hitting your injects, and macroing. Zerg definitely requires high APM and a lot of practice games to reveal all the cheese builds and timing attacks. As a zerg if you are not familiar with a build or a timing attack it makes it hard to judge how many drones and units you actually should produce. if it is that hard to decide when to build drones, just cripple yourself to build drones from one hatch only (if opponent expands, produce drones from 2 .. etc.). This way your drone/army ratio will be ~equal to your opponent. Anyway you cripple your play with that, actually it is an advantage for Z to have the production flexibility ! | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
On March 24 2011 03:53 Rob28 wrote: The question begs to be asked: Would Idra be better if he had mastered toss or terran play instead? Would fruitdealer? Both Idra and Morrow switched race to zerg cited the reason being that they did all they "mastered" terran mechanically and hit a ceiling where they couldn't really improve as much. With Z there's always things to do. | ||
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HEROwithNOlegacy
United States850 Posts
On March 24 2011 04:20 VoirDire wrote: IdrA played terran for less than a month in the beta, he didn't master anything. This is what TLO and Morrow said when TLO had initially switched to zerg after leaving korea and now plays random. IdrA has played zerg most of the beta and as you may know since the start of starcraft II's release. Both Idra and Morrow switched race to zerg cited the reason being that they did all they "mastered" terran mechanically and hit a ceiling where they couldn't really improve as much. With Z there's always things to do. | ||
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emidanRKO
United States137 Posts
So...I feel that zerg is in the middle. It's harder than protoss by far, but a little less harder than terran at a higher level. At low levels, however, zerg is by far the hardest and terran is in the middle while toss is the easiest (you can just sit on your and make armies at lower levels, which is something you can still actually do at high levels and do just fine) | ||
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VoirDire
Sweden1923 Posts
I don't think relatively low apm players like sjow or goody could have been as good zerg-players as they are terran-players. | ||
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nitdkim
1264 Posts
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Rob28
Canada705 Posts
On March 24 2011 04:20 VoirDire wrote: Both Idra and Morrow switched race to zerg cited the reason being that they did all they "mastered" terran mechanically and hit a ceiling where they couldn't really improve as much. With Z there's always things to do. If they couldn't improve any more, wouldn't that be a case against zerg being the hardest at pro level? Because it sounds as though they'd hit a wall as terran, which to me implies that they were stumped by playing terran better at pro level (i.e. harder to play it). Am I wrong? For instance, lets say that if I kept at it, I know I'd get into grandmasters with zerg. But let's also say I got into diamond as terran and couldn't go further because I'd hit a high level progression barrier (ie. wasted APM or some such thing). Wouldn't that mean it's easier to be a pro at zerg than at terran? | ||
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Musketeer
142 Posts
I think zerg is MUCH harder to learn to play a basic, competent game with; you are punished to a huge degree every time you miss an inject. However, once you reach a pseudo-competent level (ie, inject and creep tumor timings are second nature), it kind of feels like zerg are by far the easiest to reach high masters with. When I play zerg, it feels a bit unfair (not imba, to be sure), even; most I play don't even get to the point where I have the oppotrtunity to win by doing something intelligent. Just because zerg are so mobile, I win because my opponent makes a mistake and it's dreadfully easy (and pretty much an instant victory) to punish them for it. I have a little bit of experience with T, too, and I feel that they ultimately have the most difficult mechanics and are (by a fairly substantial margin) the most difficult to master. Yeah, rax timing pushes are even easier than 4gating, but outside of that, they're just really difficult. | ||
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TheWarbler
United States1659 Posts
On March 24 2011 01:06 Boundless wrote: Also, missing 3 seconds of building time does not put you behind, since you have mules. This Line makes complete fucking sense cause mules help ur building produce units right? | ||
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nTwLegy
Croatia63 Posts
balance comes later. | ||
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Sworn
Canada920 Posts
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icezar
Germany240 Posts
This could mean that is the hardest to play, underpowered or BOTH :D Reasons: -you have to scout! you cannot just do a build like 4WG or xRAX -you cannot forget queen injections -your army is mostly melee, only atacks ground, made of glass, not money efficient and cannot go over 200 -you have to be ahead in economy that means less army and more places to defend -you have to spread creep -you have to learn how to leave with all the loses from noobs that just get void+colosus or massThor from 2 base and then 1a all your 6 bases and you loose 4 times a 200 army just to find that there is nothing you can do! all this after you mastered how to survive 2rax 4wg bunkers or cannon rush! For P and T just remember to always have marines or stalkers they are good fast and shoot both ground and air - the rest are details :D | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
On March 24 2011 00:33 TeWy wrote: Zerg is the best and/or easiest race to play. Just check how many top 200 Zerg players there are, the theoretical number should be 20% (the overall ratio of zerg players on ladder). You can also check this for all the leagues... as the league gets higher the ratio of Zergs get higher... 2 possibilities : Zerg players are better, Zerg race is easier/better. Or the top 200 isn't representative of the entire ladder in terms of racial distribution. Like if there was one race that, say, had a single player campaign and attracted a lot of casual, never-see-platinum players. | ||
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RemrafGrez
United States180 Posts
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CookieMaker
Canada880 Posts
On March 23 2011 21:37 freetgy wrote: Zerg is not the hardest, but it needs experiance, which comes from playing alot. ^^ this means it's harder. Need less experience to play = easier. Need more experience to play = harder. Agree with OP, if only because of the decision-making processes involved. I don't believe the mechanics are any more difficult than those of terran or toss. One mechanic that i can see as being namely easier is that our supply is built at the same time as our units, so we don't have to waste time placing pylons/depots. However, as many of the top players have repeatedly said: 'If terran or toss makes a stupid army decision, they are behind. If zerg makes a stupid army decision, they just plain die." This statement applies to the macro mechanic of zerg in general. It comes down to this: If terran/toss builds workers and suddenly decides that they need units for defense instead, they can cancel the workers and spend the money on units. If zerg suddenly decides they need units to hold an attack, they better damn well not have started a round of drones or else they just plain die, especially in situations where the rush distance time is shorter than the time to build spine crawlers. It is well-known fact that zerg's scouting ability is the worst in the early-midgame. This fact, coupled with the immense pressure to make the correct decision between drones/units means that games are often completely luck-based for zerg when scouting information is completely denied. | ||
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Fitness
United States12 Posts
Does making "droning up" and neglecting combat units give you such a huge advantage over spreading out your drone building process? Thanks | ||
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KevinIX
United States2472 Posts
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Yokoblue
Canada594 Posts
The other races have problems : Protoss with techning and perfect FF at high level and Terran with macro speed (Yuo know since you play terrans, its the hardest race to macro) and hardest race in term of certains decision with units... they have to make units before the other races... because they dont have WG or 100 larvae... Every race's has difficulties... | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On March 24 2011 04:20 VoirDire wrote: Both Idra and Morrow switched race to zerg cited the reason being that they did all they "mastered" terran mechanically and hit a ceiling where they couldn't really improve as much. With Z there's always things to do. WRONG. For Morrow I don't know but Idra played toss first in sc2, then zerg because it fit his style more. Zerg fits Idra's style better which is too macro. Morrow I think switched for what you said. And Yes I do think if Morrow/Idra/Fruitdealer were terran/toss and only played those races sense beta I imagine they would do even better in tournaments. | ||
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