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nOia.pod
Hungary263 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:44 alurlol wrote: Mice are vermin, that's completely different from killing a large animal, don't kid yourself. As alurlol said. You vegan babyboys would cry if you would have to stab a huge animal and wait till it bleeds out. | ||
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Skeny
Australia121 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:44 alurlol wrote: Mice are vermin, that's completely different from killing a large animal, don't kid yourself. There's just no pleasing you is there! 20 mice make up about 1 piglet which is almost a large animal. EDIT: Oh I've also killed fish, are they vermin? | ||
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Sotamursu
Finland612 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:35 mcc wrote: Did I say anything about lifestyle choices ? I reacted to you saying you don't give a fuck if animal is tortured or suffers. It's pretty easy to justify veganism, if you can argue that you should care about animals. There's pretty much no other good reason to be a vegan. I assumed you're a vegan and you probably watched some of these vegan propaganda videos which influenced your decision. I'm making generalizations here, so if you aren't a vegan just ignore this. | ||
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Rflcrx
503 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:19 disciple wrote: You can live the life you want and be proud and happy about it, but the major thing that causes a conflict is how aggressive the veggies are in their propaganda. Live just a week as a vegetarian and you will notice that it is far worse as a vegetarian. I usually don't tell that I am one at dinner/restaurant/cafeteria because you won't have a peaceful dinner than. Meateaters fucking always want to argue about it. I just want to have my dinner and if somebody knows they always start with bullshit like "you have to eat meat man, or you die!!1". Trust me, meat eater propaganda and aggresiveness is far worse. Unlike you I have seen both sides. | ||
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alurlol
England197 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:46 Taosu wrote: Interesting. Where's the boundary between what is killable and what is not? Size? Vermin are a nuisance, it's got nothing to do with size, they are animals yes but small animals which cause a problem, this is why you will find exterminators for places they prove to be a problem. If my cat brings back a dead mouse I'm not going to lose sleep, if it's still alive I'll attempt to put it back in the wild, because that's just what you should do. However, trying to say killing vermin is the same as killing a large farm animal is wrong, as it's not the same thing, especially if they were gassed, there's no physical attribute involved in that. | ||
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Elwar
953 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:43 Skeny wrote: I'd say that this is worse than the video in the OP but if I take away my personal bias it's probably more fair to say that it's just as bad. While that video is obnoxious, the presenter raises a good point. Animals we farm are tremendously successful from a classical evolution standpoint (ie. the ultimate goal is reproduction). | ||
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:46 Taosu wrote: Interesting. Where's the boundary between what is killable and what is not? Size? It depends on how closely the animal in question resembles a human being. In shape and in "antropomorphized" behaviors. I think at least. I mean noone came up to me screaming that killing these dudes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placozoa is CRUEL. (they belong to the animal reign lol,most elementary form of life in that array) | ||
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snpnx
Germany454 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:52 alurlol wrote: Vermin are a nuisance, it's got nothing to do with size, they are animals yes but small animals which cause a problem, this is why you will find exterminators for places they prove to be a problem. If my cat brings back a dead mouse I'm not going to lose sleep, if it's still alive I'll attempt to put it back in the wild, because that's just what you should do. However, trying to say killing vermin is the same as killing a large farm animal is wrong, as it's not the same thing, especially if they were gassed, there's no physical attribute involved in that. Then it should be okay to gas farm animals, yeh? Man, hear yourself talk, there's no difference in killing a mice or a pig, both are animals. You preach one thing and in the next turn completely ignore it. I don't think this kind of argument is helping you a lot in fending for your cause.. | ||
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Skeny
Australia121 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:51 Sotamursu wrote: It's pretty easy to justify veganism, if you can argue that you should care about animals. There's pretty much no other good reason to be a vegan. I assumed you're a vegan and you probably watched some of these vegan propaganda videos which influenced your decision. I'm making generalizations here, so if you aren't a vegan just ignore this. There are also religous, environmental and humanitarian reasons but those are a lot rarer. Just saying  | ||
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:30 legatus legionis wrote: I don't think that empathy, one of the key characteristics of human beings, applies to anything other than humans, considering we are human. When you see someone bump his toe, you know exactly how that feels, therefor you can actually be compassionate. When you see an animal bump his toe, you have no idea how that feels, registers, works etc. So on that basis, I cannot see how people can actually be empathatic, even if they say so. Could be some social moral norm to be part of "good" people. (there's no good or bad) First we hunted and ate lots of animals. We also ate some plants. It was only after we discovered aggriculture and farming that we could settle down. Can you imagine saying you don't want to eat meat back then? You would die and people would think you are crazy. We are meant to eat meat. What I'm getting at is that the way our society has developed to this day, allows people to have choices like these. Which is fine, but it will never become a standard because it goes against nature. Also on the topic of slaughtering, for our own sake it's the best if the way all the stuff surrounding the herding of animals and slaughtering them is done in the best way possible, so we get good control on hygiene and sickness, good quality meat, cost effective production etc. But never forget that we are at the top of the foodchain, we are the dictators of the animal kingdom even though we can disagree amongst ourselves about how we should treat those below us, when it comes to those lower on the foodchain, anything goes, no matter how brutal it can appear to the idea of our current society, survival of the fittest. Laws excluding though, as long we aren't in a free for all society. Edit, think about other foodchains in nature, if a bear suddenly refuses to eat salmon, he will die and there will be so many salmons, they cannot all feed and part of them will also die. Or there is so many salmon and they kill all their food, and then their food cannot repoduce, so the salmon dies out later, and then the bear dies out because there is no salmon etc. Everywhere in the foodchain, those situations are constantly balancing. Now imagine any of them decides not to feed. You are missing some points. You actually know pretty well thanks to modern biology how animal feels when it hits something. They have the same physiological mechanism as us, there is no reason to think they suffer in any substantially different way. Empathy is a feeling not a rule (although is base of many ethical rules) so its limits are not bound by logic really. Feeling empathy for an animal suffering also does not mean that you do not eat meat. It just means you want to minimize their suffering as much as possible. Of course people who have more empathy with animal than with humans are strange and dangerous, but having no empathy with tortured animals is not a good sign. | ||
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nOia.pod
Hungary263 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:54 snpnx wrote: Then it should be okay to gas farm animals, yeh? Man, hear yourself talk, there's no difference in killing a mice or a pig, both are animals. You preach one thing and in the next turn completely ignore it. I don't think this kind of argument is helping you a lot in fending for your cause.. Okay, but it's wrong to slap a fly too. Even if it's annoying as hell on a good summer day, when you are trying to nap and that fkin fly is cruising around your head. | ||
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Skeny
Australia121 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:52 alurlol wrote: Vermin are a nuisance, it's got nothing to do with size, they are animals yes but small animals which cause a problem, this is why you will find exterminators for places they prove to be a problem. If my cat brings back a dead mouse I'm not going to lose sleep, if it's still alive I'll attempt to put it back in the wild, because that's just what you should do. However, trying to say killing vermin is the same as killing a large farm animal is wrong, as it's not the same thing, especially if they were gassed, there's no physical attribute involved in that. Well would it please you more if I also said that I've killed and gutted fish? | ||
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MamiyaOtaru
United States1687 Posts
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:57 nOia.pod wrote: Okay, but it's wrong to slap a fly too. Even if it's annoying as hell on a good summer day, when you are trying to nap and that fkin fly is cruising around your head. Goddamn those assholes WOULD NEVER GO AWAY DAMMIT. I hate them more than the average spider who crawls his way inside my home inside some piece of wood. GSL starting up soon,I'm out fellas. Eating everything up I will,down to them stones betcha. Bb. | ||
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snpnx
Germany454 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:57 nOia.pod wrote: Okay, but it's wrong to slap a fly too. Even if it's annoying as hell on a good summer day, when you are trying to nap and that fkin fly is cruising around your head. Technically yes. Even though I like the stuff PloisonCornu posted ("It depends on how closely the animal in question resembles a human being. In shape and in "antropomorphized" behaviors.") though I don't think that you can use that as a universal rule. But I'm no vegetarian, and I kill flies when they bother me | ||
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Lythox
Netherlands161 Posts
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
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nOia.pod
Hungary263 Posts
On February 09 2011 18:00 snpnx wrote: Technically yes. Even though I like the stuff PloisonCornu posted ("It depends on how closely the animal in question resembles a human being. In shape and in "antropomorphized" behaviors.") though I don't think that you can use that as a universal rule. But I'm no vegetarian, and I kill flies when they bother me And we are killing a pig, when we are hungry  | ||
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alurlol
England197 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:54 snpnx wrote: Then it should be okay to gas farm animals, yeh? Man, hear yourself talk, there's no difference in killing a mice or a pig, both are animals. You preach one thing and in the next turn completely ignore it. I don't think this kind of argument is helping you a lot in fending for your cause.. I'm just answering the question as it's been asked, you deny there being a difference but there is, can you really tell me you'd kill a mice as non hesitantly as a cow? And also how am I preaching anything, by that logic everyone in this damn topic is preaching something, I'm just stating my opinion. | ||
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Sotamursu
Finland612 Posts
On February 09 2011 17:55 Skeny wrote: There are also religous, environmental and humanitarian reasons but those are a lot rarer. Just saying Global warming is a another topic entirely, though I'm not convinced on the actions of humans causing it. If you are talking about other enviromental stuff, well you should be protesting for better enviromental care and not boycott every animal product. Doing absolutely anything because of religious reasons if borderline retarded and any intelligent person can see that. Humanitarian reasons are basically just feeling sorry for the animals. | ||
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