EPTThese questions, IMO, are far more pertinent to the health of SC2 as a whole than what is being debated in this thread. I'd love to see how the GOMTV stream is doing in comparison to tournaments such as MLG and ESL. The VODs of the group matches of the most current tournament are all hovering at around 100k views, which I would think isn't too shabby.
GSL Popularity - Page 41
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Node
United States2159 Posts
These questions, IMO, are far more pertinent to the health of SC2 as a whole than what is being debated in this thread. I'd love to see how the GOMTV stream is doing in comparison to tournaments such as MLG and ESL. The VODs of the group matches of the most current tournament are all hovering at around 100k views, which I would think isn't too shabby. | ||
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
On January 08 2011 04:31 TheBanana wrote: You guys are such negative nancies. You should support the game, help make it bigger. I see nothing good coming from this discussion, it brings nothing but negativity that will deter potential fans and demotivate players. Some of you portray it like you deserve a medal if you're not watching or supporting SC2. You don't, you deserve a kick in the ass. Atm SC2 is the only RTS game that has a shot at real growth as an esport, and everyone you should stand behind it. Especially RTS-fans. Also GSL != SC2, even though GSL is the biggest there is more to SC2 than that. I am sorry, but a major point in this thread is that SC:BW was and is a much bigger esport than SC2, so where does "Sc2 is the only decent shot for esports" come in? Also, I do deserve a medal since I am not supporting sc2  | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:38 Lunchtime wrote: LOL. Where was esports before SC2? BW was on the decline in Korea and non-existent competitively outside of Korea in 2010 on the eve of SC2's release. Now there are SC2 columns in freaking PC World. More people are playing StarCraft in the world now than at any time during BW's life, and that's because of SC2. The Blizzard ladder is hugely responsible for that. The average person cannot compete in Korea and signing up for third party leagues will automatically turn off 90% of the people who bought the game. Blizzard did many things right with SC2. The game is also fun. The problem is that it is not like BW. What's wrong with being like C&C? C&C sold a ton and Dustin Browder's games were all fun (Generals, Battle for Middle Earth, Red Alert 2) and they were decently balanced for fun play, some competitive play, but they pale in comparison to the balance and depth of BW. They need to up the ante in the new expansion packs and patches, and fast. That's about all they need to do, game-wise. The rest is marketing. Let OSL/MSL into SC2. Let Gom focus on turning a profit from streams via advertising and the like. Allow staggered restreams across multiple regions. Start pushing SC2 in other countries. Get rid of the ridiculous requirements in Korea just to get a damn Bnet account. Put so much money into SC2 that the BW players will move over. None of this is new knowledge. Blizzard has already known they'd have to do all this. People are getting upset about a report from a competitor (OSL) that has everything to gain from making GSL and Blizzard look bad. Wake up. Yea Brood War isn't successful and it would be nothing without Sc2...Mhm....indeed....absolutely. I don't know about you but today in the OSL I got 3 absolutely amazing sets of games while the last 5 days of GSL have been horrible. On January 08 2011 06:15 etheovermind wrote: I am sorry, but a major point in this thread is that SC:BW was and is a much bigger esport than SC2, so where does "Sc2 is the only decent shot for esports" come in? Also, I do deserve a medal since I am not supporting sc2 GSL doesn't deserve supporting just by virtue of the fact that its GSL as you imply. If its gonna keep featuring mediocre games with 50 / 50 all ins that last under 10 minutes I'm not gonna start supporting it anytime soon. | ||
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Sobba
Sweden576 Posts
And please everyone chillax. Sc2 is not sinking, no need to throw in the towel. I hope noone thought we could keep all the players that were tired of wow and bought Sc2 to play abit. Sc2 still has a big following, and its a fun and entertaining game to play with your friends. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
worse case scenario blizz completely kill bw transmission, koreans dun like sc2, both scs dies... what else do south koreans watch ? cs ? tekken 6? prolly some other game will take their place ... | ||
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itsMAHVELbaybee
292 Posts
They can show all the Kart Racing and Tekken 6 and Counter Strike ripoffs they want to "pretend" they care about esports but they only care for BW in all honesty. BW is an esport, but Korea fails pretty hard in supporting esports. Korea even sucks at supporting a game that has "Starcraft" in its name. | ||
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IamBach
United States1059 Posts
On January 08 2011 06:22 itsMAHVELbaybee wrote: Its Korea's own fault. They can show all the Kart Racing and Tekken 6 and Counter Strike ripoffs they want to "pretend" they care about esports but they only care for BW in all honesty. BW is an esport, but Korea fails pretty hard in supporting esports. Korea even sucks at supporting a game that has "Starcraft" in its name. I dont even understand your argument. It's Korea's fault that it doesn't like starcraft 2? I dont think the average korean cares about esports. They care about what they like to watch, like anyone else would. If they don't like starcraft 2, its not "sucking". hmm | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On January 07 2011 16:38 Lunchtime wrote: LOL. Where was esports before SC2? BW was on the decline in Korea and non-existent competitively outside of Korea in 2010 on the eve of SC2's release. Now there are SC2 columns in freaking PC World. More people are playing StarCraft in the world now than at any time during BW's life, and that's because of SC2. Except esports was doing fine before sc2.. Probably better because the whole point of esports is to have a game that will be played regardless of graphics or technological advances. Want to look at sc2's viability as an esport? Would sc2 succeed or even survive if it had BW-esque graphics? Because that's where it'll be headed in just a few years? Can esports survive if they have to change the premier game every few years? No and no. | ||
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tsuxiit
1305 Posts
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ZeaL.
United States5955 Posts
On January 08 2011 06:18 SubtleArt wrote: Yea Brood War isn't successful and it would be nothing without Sc2...Mhm....indeed....absolutely. I don't know about you but today in the OSL I got 3 absolutely amazing sets of games while the last 5 days of GSL have been horrible. GSL doesn't deserve supporting just by virtue of the fact that its GSL as you imply. If its gonna keep featuring mediocre games with 50 / 50 all ins that last under 10 minutes I'm not gonna start supporting it anytime soon. My buddy plays sc2 a lot (~2900 zerg) and watches gsl, we share a GOM account. I watch bw live when I can. The last couple of days our convos have been like this: Me: Hey man any good games from GSL? Him: Not really. Just some marauder drop shenanigans from Boxer. Me: Lol Boxer. Always gotta be pioneering shit. Him: Any good bw games? Me: MSL r32 group H was amazing. OSL Ro8 has been amazing too. Hiya vs stork, modesty v Kal especially. Winners league is tonight too. Him: Eh more Code A matches tonight. I guess I'll skim through them at work tomorrow. Me: Don't you ever get excited enough to shout or something? Him: Nah, to be honest every game looks about the same. I can predict what will happen and where it will happen on the map 80% of the games so I just skip through to see who won. Me: ... Man you should watch winner's league tonight. | ||
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yobobear
United States22 Posts
I feel the current map pool is quite weak when xel naga caverns is deemed as one of the most balanced maps. Its small, hard to take a third, and a 1v1 map. Remember when LT was a staple and multiplayer maps were almost a given? Another thing to take note of would be the acceptance rate of Starcraft II. Just as any game starting out you need to build a fan base, this takes time. I would say you need repeat winners of major tournaments to build a sick reputation like Flash and Jaedong. This would create a heroes/villain scenario that people can watch. It would be interesting for IdrA to start some mean smacktalk with someone like oGsMC and have their matches be played up for the sole reason that they hate each other. I don't really see how cheese takes away from the game unless its happening every match. For example, Group F in GSL was last night and I was extremely happy with all the games. Yes there was one cheeseball game, but it was exciting and didn't detract at all from the night. If anything it was quite refreshing. It also felt like watching pvp and pvt last night was a nice change from the boringness of zvz and zvt as previous days proved. On another note, I think Tastosis is right in that name changes are hurting the reputations of teams and players. If only those players kept their IDs since the high amount of foreign viewership is bringing SCII interests global, people would be able to keep their favorite players names straight. I know they named Hopetorture who changed his name, Foxer/Boxer/Optimus etc and others. I hope in time SCII is adopted as a new standard of RTS especially since we are all having fun playing it so early since release. SCII Fighting! | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On January 08 2011 06:22 itsMAHVELbaybee wrote: Its Korea's own fault. They can show all the Kart Racing and Tekken 6 and Counter Strike ripoffs they want to "pretend" they care about esports but they only care for BW in all honesty. BW is an esport, but Korea fails pretty hard in supporting esports. Korea even sucks at supporting a game that has "Starcraft" in its name. Dunno how you can say it's Korea's fault If Korea was left alone by Blizzard I could only see SC2 being in a better position today than it is. It would be on TV, it would be in more pc rooms if they didn't try to charge extra, there would be some governing body trying to make something of it At the very least it's unfair to blame Korea when Blizzard came in and stuck their hand in the pot | ||
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SpinmovE
Canada119 Posts
On January 08 2011 05:18 ZeaL. wrote: I bought season tickets for GSL S2 and S3 and really tried enjoying it, I really did but to put it bluntly watching GSL is boring as fuck. Whether its players, map pool, or the game itself, something about the game is simply boring compared to broodwar. I stopped paying cash to watch boring games and instead went back to Bw. Look at this. This happened in the game Kal v Really in the MSL Ro32 + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1677536/kalvreally-o.gif) Or this, from the same group in MSL Ro32 Kal v Shine. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.gifsoup.com/view3/1677619/kalvshine-o.gif) The energy and excitement in these matches is so intense, it seems like you just can't get the same feeling in sc2, and these are matches in Ro32!!!. The games from last nights OSL Ro8 were even crazier and the OSL semis + finals are going to be even better. Maybe its just me, but I think a lot of Koreans feel the same way, BW is simply more fun to watch. I haven't watched SC:BW for well over a year, probably closer to two, and while I have been watching quite a bit of SC2 instead I have to admit that those two games look much more exciting then any SC2 game I've watched recently. I can recall games for 2+ years ago that I watched and that were amazing, and extremely memorable, obviously. While for sc2 I can honestly say that I can't recall a single game from any further back then GSL3 finals. I often see people on these forums stating that larger maps wouldn't help anything, that watching macro games isn't fun, and that all ins are more exciting and appeal to the masses much more. All I can really ask of those people is to go and watch a SC:BW game where a large map, such as Andromeda, gets mined out. Ignoring the graphics, if you enjoy watching SC2, then I doubt you could enjoy watching a game like that. Ex: There any many factors affecting the the enjoyment of watching SC2, all of which have been mentioned on these forums countless times and don't really need to be restated. The burden really is upon Blizzard to wake up and realize the potential that there game has within it, they just need to bring it out. On January 08 2011 06:07 FabledIntegral wrote: New format is way more boring than the previous format where we had a Bo64. I don't really care for their "season." Just hold tournament like you used to! I agree completely. Not much else to say other then that group stages, in any competitive game, are never that interesting to watch for me personally. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
Edit: I mean same mechanics but better engine for better appealing ... | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
I think how much people take into their own hands and how much they lie prostrate in wait for the game gods' intervention will determine SC2's fate. | ||
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lowkontrast
United States855 Posts
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RvB
Netherlands6270 Posts
On January 08 2011 06:42 floor exercise wrote: Dunno how you can say it's Korea's fault If Korea was left alone by Blizzard I could only see SC2 being in a better position today than it is. It would be on TV, it would be in more pc rooms if they didn't try to charge extra, there would be some governing body trying to make something of it At the very least it's unfair to blame Korea when Blizzard came in and stuck their hand in the pot Pure speculation we don't know what would have happened if blizzard didn't do anything in Korea. On topic: I think we need to give sc2 some more time to develop and it would help if boxer or nada get some results or revolutianize gameplay. I bet we will see this same thread in 10 years when sc 3 gets released. | ||
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progeny
Sweden43 Posts
Look at other esport games many of them have that suspense and entertainment built into them. Fps have it built in, fighting games like street fighter have it, starcraft dont its up to the player to make it intresting. An exemple is the rainbow genuis game, couldve been good but it was a let down. | ||
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Acid~
Thailand442 Posts
There is potential in SC2 to have games like the one SpinmovE just linked, but first we'd need to have a couple of maps that are just slightly larger than Bloodbath... | ||
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Xain
Canada94 Posts
On January 08 2011 05:51 IPA wrote: Why would anyone want to be one of those people though? It shows short-sightedness and bullheadedness. I can name thirty AMAZING bands or songwriters in every decade since the 50s (and there are more in previous decades, that's just where knowledge ends). If you can't see the beauty and glory in contemporary fare (like StarCraft 2) then you are holding on to the past with a stubbornness that is childish and kinda silly. BW = amazing SC2 = amazing <3 community <3 Thank you sir. People should learn that life gets only better when you learn to love more. | ||
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