[D] Why is protoss doing so bad in the GSL? - Page 85

On November 12 2010 21:58 dragonsuper wrote:
And i think that the colossus is killing PvP match up , so probably the best think would be nerfing the colossus big time and buffing other units.

On November 13 2010 00:20 Promises wrote:
Just a sidenote: straight up comparing for instance the mule to chronoboost etc simply doesnt work. The races (thank god) are thoroughly different and have different mechanics, units and abilities, they do not have to hold up 1-1 in each situation.

On November 12 2010 20:59 TeWy wrote:



This is such a blatant lie.
Zerg has been dominating this game (in south korea at least) since beta day 1.
I can remind me off Artosis posting a thread (during late beta) explaining why every single Korean tournament had a Zerg winner, and most of the times a 2nd Zerg as well. At the time it was because Zerg had fewer units that the other race thus was easier to figure out.
Right now, still according to Zerg players, t's because terrans and protosses simply aren't good enough lolmao. There's always another explanation to the Zerg domination, I wonder what will come next.

The only moment where they didn't dominate was the 2 months after terran mech had been buffed for terran (siege tanks AI), but eventually, it just got nerfed into oblivion after Zerg complained about it (people always talk about reapers, what about siege tanks core dmg 60 to 35 lolmao) so we're back to beta minus roach at 1 food, but well, they've 4 range now so it's a good trade.

On November 13 2010 02:06 Xxavi wrote:

I don't know how that mixed up, but I didn't write the stuff you quoted me writing.

And for the record, I agree with you completely. L2P is a very selfish stuff to say. It basically says to all protoss players, or all zerg players before the patch, that they are not good enough, they have to learn 2 play. Pure arrogance.

I am baffled that the say this to Toss now. Especially if Zerg players say, because not long ago, they were whining about imba too. I want to ask all Zerg players, who is a good Zerg player? Name me players, 2-3 Zerg players, who are unquestionably better than Protoss ones and that's why they are doing better?

There's nobody like that! Cool (Fruitdealer)? He was never considered better than Tester during entire Beta period, I cannot believe he suddenly became better than Tester during GSL1. Who else there is even if I accept Fruitdealer to be better than all Toss players? Nobody! Zenio? Come on! Idra? It has to be a joke! Check? You gotta be kidding me.

But Zerg indeed got their buff, and are doing better than Toss in GSL2. I don't count Blizzcon or MLG, because, to be honest, there isn't a wide selection of top players in there. Good players, but nobody better than GSL round of 16. And even that, there 2-3 players at most.

On November 13 2010 04:22 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
Hey guys, I am wondering about a possible 1 gate + 1 stargate that expand as soon as first void ray comes out and scout with 2nd phoenix build, goal is to transition into carrier smoothly against terran. I wonder how will that pan out.

On November 02 2010 03:25 Jerubaal wrote:
It does seem like Protoss commonly employs a very small number of build orders and this makes them predictable in the early game. The fascinating parts of a Protoss build order are where and how many gateways to build and when to make a robo. And is it just me or have HTs seen significantly less use lately?

On November 12 2010 16:50 red_hq wrote:
Now I think largely the problem of protoss not doing well in the GSL seasons 1&2 is largely due to
this simple fact that the players that play toss are simply not boss enough. Stemming from toss
is not as cool as the other races to watch, no gosu stutter stepping can be had no crazy banelings.
A long cool down for stalker attack>move is the source if blizz changed this there would be many a
story of imba games would from the stalkers superior mobility before mutas and marauders get
all of the harass potentials, I speak of medvac drops and how usually they can kill major structures
about 8-10 seconds, not the mining ones but other crucial tech. Toss would be the imba monster of
how the hell do I beat it early game, that and blink means that blizz leaves the stalker alone. I have
my own pet toss that can result in some very watchable games but these are doomed for platinum
life unable to break me into diamond or even the strats to make it to GSL.You must see pros have
got to do better than post amazing results, but their styles win sponsorships and until boss toss is
flipped around until they can most of the GSL is going to be TvZ or T and Z mirrors.When things get
turned to toss's favor via expo pack, some crazy micro that turns all of our protoss misconceptions
upside down, or someone has some strat that makes toss 66% win in all MU. Toss will always be
down in number at the higher levels. This is not to say toss will never win GSL but the chances
and coolness factor on the way will not be as high.

I'd like to say I am not whining toss imba UP but quite the opposite that every single toss unit are
like tanks. Every toss unit that does not have higher speed to comparable units has a higher health
to resource ratio, discounting creep.In addition to the toss microability issue people have the wrong
take on how to play toss, players use their units like they are fragile when really they arn't. I am not
a toss gosu/ pro or even a good toss by any means, it seems like the toss pro players use little
minute moves that don't draw attention, most of the time it is true they only take pretend damage.
Just abusing the shield mechanic isn't enough you absolutely need to do more as toss than to just
sit there until your shields are about to run out and then run.

Right now the game and its strategy has been undeniably accelerated due to its existing fan base.
There needs to be more omg for toss, like the messy AI for scarabs as they dropped from shuttles
and you couldn't tell where they were going and the retarded level of DPS for high templar's storms.
I'll say right now that most of this will never be implemented but I have confidence in blizzard and I
tell you they will fix this toss is boring issue, I know it. Because in the current meta against T if
you have not got an obs before your 3rd gate has finished and they went banshess I have no idea of
how you would win that game however it is null against zerg a, PvZ is one of the most dynamic MU,
I just love to watch it. But its never for the OMG that phoenix killed an overlord, but the watchability
became the zerg's responsibility, omg lings in the mineral line, OMG those horde of lings just killed
the immortal, surely the roaches will roflstomp now. Having 2 exciting MUs is better than 1.

Prince of toss Huk and king NexGen are both great players. Like idra play unless toss makes it out
of 10 min mark, they stand no chance, and idra and save early game vs T a lot better than toss as
a whole can against terran. The scalability of toss in skill, size, and ups means sup par runs in pro
town will frequently plague this poor race. I could also be blowing this out of proportion doing a thing
called over analyzing, we are all probably doing it. If no toss makes it semis in the next 2+ seasons
Bel s should start to go off. But until then we probably should stop to pulling conclusions out of thin
air, or drawing answers from entirely probable coincidences.


EDIT:+ Show Spoiler +

On November 12 2010 16:50 red_hq wrote:
Now I think largely the problem of protoss not doing well in the GSL seasons 1&2 is largely due to
this simple fact that the players that play toss are simply not boss enough. Stemming from toss
is not as cool as the other races to watch, no gosu stutter stepping can be had no crazy banelings.
A long cool down for stalker attack>move is the source if blizz changed this there would be many a
story of imba games would from the stalkers superior mobility before mutas and marauders get
all of the harass potentials, I speak of medvac drops and how usually they can kill major structures
about 8-10 seconds, not the mining ones but other crucial tech. Toss would be the imba monster of
how the hell do I beat it early game, that and blink means that blizz leaves the stalker alone. I have
my own pet toss that can result in some very watchable games but these are doomed for platinum
life unable to break me into diamond or even the strats to make it to GSL.You must see pros have
got to do better than post amazing results, but their styles win sponsorships and until boss toss is
flipped around until they can most of the GSL is going to be TvZ or T and Z mirrors.When things get
turned to toss's favor via expo pack, some crazy micro that turns all of our protoss misconceptions
upside down, or someone has some strat that makes toss 66% win in all MU. Toss will always be
down in number at the higher levels. This is not to say toss will never win GSL but the chances
and coolness factor on the way will not be as high.

I'd like to say I am not whining toss imba UP but quite the opposite that every single toss unit are
like tanks. Every toss unit that does not have higher speed to comparable units has a higher health
to resource ratio, discounting creep.In addition to the toss microability issue people have the wrong
take on how to play toss, players use their units like they are fragile when really they arn't. I am not
a toss gosu/ pro or even a good toss by any means, it seems like the toss pro players use little
minute moves that don't draw attention, most of the time it is true they only take pretend damage.
Just abusing the shield mechanic isn't enough you absolutely need to do more as toss than to just
sit there until your shields are about to run out and then run.

Right now the game and its strategy has been undeniably accelerated due to its existing fan base.
There needs to be more omg for toss, like the messy AI for scarabs as they dropped from shuttles
and you couldn't tell where they were going and the retarded level of DPS for high templar's storms.
I'll say right now that most of this will never be implemented but I have confidence in blizzard and I
tell you they will fix this toss is boring issue, I know it. Because in the current meta against T if
you have not got an obs before your 3rd gate has finished and they went banshess I have no idea of
how you would win that game however it is null against zerg a, PvZ is one of the most dynamic MU,
I just love to watch it. But its never for the OMG that phoenix killed an overlord, but the watchability
became the zerg's responsibility, omg lings in the mineral line, OMG those horde of lings just killed
the immortal, surely the roaches will roflstomp now. Having 2 exciting MUs is better than 1.

Prince of toss Huk and king NexGen are both great players. Like idra play unless toss makes it out
of 10 min mark, they stand no chance, and idra and save early game vs T a lot better than toss as
a whole can against terran. The scalability of toss in skill, size, and ups means sup par runs in pro
town will frequently plague this poor race. I could also be blowing this out of proportion doing a thing
called over analyzing, we are all probably doing it. If no toss makes it semis in the next 2+ seasons
Bel s should start to go off. But until then we probably should stop to pulling conclusions out of thin
air, or drawing answers from entirely probable coincidences.


EDIT:+ Show Spoiler +

On November 13 2010 21:42 gorath wrote:
After watching the GSL Finals:

- anyone still saying that just all the Protoss players play to risky with their BOs and thats why they lose?
- anyone still saying that all the Protoss players just lose games because they make some bad decisions?

All that happened to the two players in the finals and yet they somehow got there and won some games. Its part oft he game. Also note the tempo of the games. I think its no coincidence that there is no Protoss advancing that far, the games (at the moment on that level) are just really fast obviously, aren´t they?

On November 13 2010 22:12 Hellye wrote:


blizzard has to nerf marines. It has to! They already know how crazy op they are. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2OmxEP13d4#t=9m46s

but it seems they just dont like to do anything about it. - -'

On November 13 2010 22:56 Apolo wrote:
I seriously hope they aren't balancing on personal experience... him saying he doesn't have much trouble aggainst terran once storms are out, so they should nerf it is just a ridiculous argument.

On November 13 2010 22:56 Apolo wrote:
I seriously hope they aren't balancing on personal experience... him saying he doesn't have much trouble aggainst terran once storms are out, so they should nerf it is just a ridiculous argument.

On November 13 2010 23:00 andrewwiggin wrote:
Protoss is a crap race to play because in a game where anything can change in an instant, protoss are set back and prevented from adapting with the same speed as the other races. They're just not a viable race to win with in GSL. Without future patch changes in favour protoss, I predict no protoss to ever win GSL. Simple.