EPT[D] Why is protoss doing so bad in the GSL? - Page 107
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
tvp for me is really a free win atm, but only because 8/10 toss players do the same mistake and expand while teching (some even after loosing a fight), so i can use the moment to kill the expansion. And get an expansion myself. Afterwards the toss trys to get out his 10 hts with 200 energie so he can storm to death everything. The time i am really getting problems is when a toss tryes to harass. Blink stalkers are really evil on some maps, well i play pretty save againts air drops, so warp prisms without speed are np for me. And i learned to save my scans against dts until i can afford regular detection. Oh and never faced phoenix harassment, though i almost play those everytime against a Terran, because they are just evil against bio. | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
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rsol
Australia117 Posts
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JustPlay
United States211 Posts
The best way to fix protoss is to look at their upgrade time and costs. Especially things in V->C (charge/blink/maybe the building itself instead) so they are easier/faster to grab mid-game. edit: I am a Z/random player. *except probe production, which does benefit greatly from it | ||
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ZerOfy
United Kingdom405 Posts
On November 17 2010 08:25 Darkush wrote: A few random ideas: -Colossus were a mistake, plain and simple. They dont belong in the game. Id much prefer something along the lines of the reaver. A micro intensive unit that can be used to both annihilate workers and as support in late game battles. Can you image the amount of QQ'in if the reaver was brought back? *OMFG REAVER KILLED ALL MY WORKERS!!1 *WTF REAVER KILLED HALF MY MM BALL! No, given unlimited selection in Starcraft 2 and the improved unit grouping (clumping) reavers would be MASSIVELY nerfed into oblivion. Kind of like Psi Storm. So they're attack could only kill 4 units at a time and be ultra slow or something. Probably why they didn't bring them back, or perhaps I'm wrong. | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
How do you expect it to be good? | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
No. They are pretty damn mediocre at doing both. Marines are some of the most cost-effective anti-air in the game. Stalkers are almost the opposite. Stop talking about Stalkers' versatility as if it's a good thing, because it's not. When we see a Protoss player lose to an early Terran/Zerg MM/Roach push, Stalker's air attack is good for nothing. Being the jack of all trades is completely useless when early pure-ground pushes destroy you. I'd be much happier with two separate units that excel at what they do, rather than an incredibly cost-ineffective unit that does both and loses badly to ground units in a cost/effectiveness battle. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
It's just people randomly throwing out ridiculous ideas to "balance Protoss", whine QQ posts and flaming. This may have started out as a sensible discussion, but its just devolved into people all throwing opinions and ideas at each other without really giving it any thought. It certainly no longer has anything to do with the title of the thread. I really wish sometimes that threads like this could stay reasonable and flame-free. The mods do such a great job here but there's such a poor mentality about this game where people who are in like Gold or Silver or whatever will blame race balance for their losses. I promise, the game is not so imbalanced as to prevent you from making Diamond. The problem is you, and you need to check your narcissism at the door. I used to cry balance as well. Then I realised there were so many holes in my game anyway, and the best thing to do is just work on improving my game. If there truly are balance problems, discuss them rationally. Blizzard will fix them. But when you see GSL champions being taken out by pure marine builds, I think it just shows how much the metagame shifts all the time, and really we just need to work on our own play. I just read a post that said sentries should be detectors. I think that illustrates how bad things have gotten. I'm sorry you've lost to a couple of annoying banshee rushes, we've all been there. It does not mean you need mobile Tier 1 detection. Zergs used to lose to Banshee rushes all the time, and many people cried OP. Probably myself included. Then they figured out how to stop them, by building extra Queens and saccing overlords to scout for it. Please guys, before you post, think to yourself: Is this REALLY due to racial imbalance, or is there something I could have done better. If a banshee rush was not preventable, every Protoss would do it every game wouldn't they? Think guys, please. I have a sad feeling that this post will be completely ignored anyway, that this thread will just be filled with more pages of people saying this or that. That's the problem, its not really a discussion anymore, its just everyone throwing their own opinion out, with noone really listening to each other, unless its to argue. | ||
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Moragon
United States355 Posts
On November 17 2010 08:30 Xxavi wrote: Guys, could anybody post code S protoss players so far, and the ones with realistic chances? I cannot count more than 5, that's a disaster! Protoss code S so far is Tester, IncA, Genius, and HongUn. Hopefully MC will join them by doing well this season. The problem is that Tester has failed to qualify since recieving code S, and IncA only won mirror matchups to achieve code S and has failed to qualify this GSL. HongUn lost in the round of 64 last tournament. The only toss who has done well since the patch 1.1 and 1.1.2 nerfs is Genius. Even when they reach code S they are going to be quickly replaced by top code A Zerg/Terran. Code S could end up with only Genius without a patch. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4830 Posts
Of course, larger maps would allow Protoss to defend, expand, and take proper advantage of their high tech and slick moves (like warp-in, and Prisms). But do you really want macro maps? | ||
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positron.
634 Posts
On November 17 2010 08:39 itsjuspeter wrote: What does that have to do with anything that Moragon was trying to say? You obviously have a deep root of hatred for toss maybe losing to them too much in your silver league? An observer is by no means a map hack LOL, even using those words together in one sentence makes me chuckle. Having the observer come out of a cybercore is actually an interesting idea, instead of committing money into that robo, toss can maybe put up a stargate for air, rush DT's, rush HT, who knows. Interesting suggestion. You have the reading comprehension of a elementary student. Saying obs is a map hack is just an exaggeration. Like when you say you would give an arm and a leg for a cup of coffee. I guess you won't understand what people mean when they say that either. Having the obs come out of the cypercore is pretty imbalance. For 100/100 you can scout your opponent base forever until the raven or overseer come out. | ||
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Cellardoor
United States71 Posts
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
On November 17 2010 08:59 Subversion wrote: Wow this thread really needs to be closed imo. It's just people randomly throwing out ridiculous ideas to "balance Protoss", whine QQ posts and flaming. This may have started out as a sensible discussion, but its just devolved into people all throwing opinions and ideas at each other without really giving it any thought. It certainly no longer has anything to do with the title of the thread. I really wish sometimes that threads like this could stay reasonable and flame-free. The mods do such a great job here but there's such a poor mentality about this game where people who are in like Gold or Silver or whatever will blame race balance for their losses. I promise, the game is not so imbalanced as to prevent you from making Diamond. The problem is you, and you need to check your narcissism at the door. I used to cry balance as well. Then I realised there were so many holes in my game anyway, and the best thing to do is just work on improving my game. If there truly are balance problems, discuss them rationally. Blizzard will fix them. But when you see GSL champions being taken out by pure marine builds, I think it just shows how much the metagame shifts all the time, and really we just need to work on our own play. I just read a post that said sentries should be detectors. I think that illustrates how bad things have gotten. I'm sorry you've lost to a couple of annoying banshee rushes, we've all been there. It does not mean you need mobile Tier 1 detection. Zergs used to lose to Banshee rushes all the time, and many people cried OP. Probably myself included. Then they figured out how to stop them, by building extra Queens and saccing overlords to scout for it. Please guys, before you post, think to yourself: Is this REALLY due to racial imbalance, or is there something I could have done better. If a banshee rush was not preventable, every Protoss would do it every game wouldn't they? Think guys, please. I have a sad feeling that this post will be completely ignored anyway, that this thread will just be filled with more pages of people saying this or that. That's the problem, its not really a discussion anymore, its just everyone throwing their own opinion out, with noone really listening to each other, unless its to argue. The issue here is that I personally like to see protoss game play in the GSL, and I want protoss to win. How I play have nothing in this equation. Also, appearently phoenix is the new nydus worm. | ||
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Mascherano
Argentina1726 Posts
On November 17 2010 09:09 positron. wrote: You have the reading comprehension of a elementary student. Saying obs is a map hack is just an exaggeration. Like when you say you would give an arm and a leg for a cup of coffee. I guess you won't understand what people mean when they say that either. Having the obs come out of the cypercore is pretty imbalance. For 100/100 you can scout your opponent base forever until the raven or overseer come out. True, because, I mean. In high level play it would be ridiculous to see a Terran scan to kill an observer. Who would trade a mule for letting enemy protoss knowing exactly what you are doing? | ||
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Moragon
United States355 Posts
Having the obs come out of the cypercore is pretty imbalance. For 100/100 you can scout your opponent base forever until the raven or overseer come out. ...or scan, or turret, or spore. But yes, you would have good scouting...which is necessary since toss tech switches are so time/resource intensive. | ||
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
Having the obs come out of the cypercore is pretty imbalance. For 100/100 you can scout your opponent base forever until the raven or overseer come out. Or until your tiny eyes notice a blur on top of your army and you scan. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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