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On July 06 2010 14:15 jgad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 14:02 semantics wrote:I'm confused by it, it says "Low Voltage" then goes with Voltage:1.65V for it's timings which aren't that impressive. "Low Voltage" just means it runs 1.65V or lower for its rated speed. Contrast with oldschool RAM which used to run at 3.3V or even (gads!) 5V in the "old" days.
1.65 is not low voltage for ddr3 though so i'm not impressed.
Also ddr3 main reason why it runs lower is better manufacture processes. ie we aren't using 130nm or what not for making ram.
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On July 06 2010 14:18 semantics wrote:
1.65 is not low voltage for ddr3 though so i'm not impressed.
No, but the term "Low Voltage" is a term which means "suitable for use with new Intel specs which require RAM to operate at or below 1.65V, even though DDR3 'standard' spec is 1.5 but previously worked at or above 1.8v". It's to contrast it with the older 1.8V standard for DDR2 and older overspec DDR3 designed to work with Core2 systems.. It's not a sales term, it's a technical term.
It comes from the fact that, in generations past, high performance RAM was tuned to maximize performance at voltages significantly higher than JEDEC specs. DDR2 was spec'd to 1.8V, but a lot of performance ram wouldn't meet its specs until you cranked it up to 2.1V or higher. With DDR3 at 1.5V, but Intel spec throwing hard limits at 1.65V, the term "Low Voltage" arose to describe RAM which was suitable for these "low voltage" systems. Running at 1.65V is as overspec as you can get in a low voltage system... if that makes any sense.
You can get DDR3 ram, for example, which is performance ram, but which is designed to run at 1.8V instead of 1.5V. This is fine in the older Core2 CPUs, but if you've got an i5 or an i7 then you CANNOT use this ram at its rated overspec voltage without damaging your system - even though it's proper DDR3 and it's spec'd to run at 1.8 the i5/i7 systems cannot use it, at least not without tuning down the voltage to 1.65V and, by consequence, having to run it at sub-optimal performance settings. Thus - "Low Voltage" RAM -> RAM which is specifically designed to run at peak performance within the bounds of the new, lower voltage Intel DDR3 spec.
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when you slap low voltage on a product. it's a marketing point, relative to ddr3 and hell to the ddr3 standard it is not low voltage.
Low voltage is a term coined by conglomerates like OCZ as a marketing point infact if you search up low voltage ddr3 you mostly come up with OCZ; thus it likely their term not an intel technical term. Intel doesn't use the word low voltage outside of their mobile platform.
Until you get acutal low voltage sticks that are form like Kingston or G.skill (which most motherboards can't run at those voltages which is funny to someone who blindly buys it)
Also no such thing as low voltage if you're not following spec of ddr3, i find any kit that is running above 1.5v just an oced ddr3 stick, same way i blindly label ddr2 sticks etc.
It's a marketing term, also way to take a joke all serious :D
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It didn't seem like a joke, it just seemed like you didn't know what they were talking about. My mistake. I don't buy the delusions of corporate scheming but, as you please, by all means believe what you will. Just thought I'd provide a bit of dry, technical information.
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Hey guys, so I'm a complete noob concerning hardware but want to buy a new badass gaming pc that will last quite a while. I've read my way through some articles, and ended up with this:
http://www.alternate.de/html/pcbuilder/detailView.html?cn=1&tn=BUILDERS
GPU: Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC
CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T
Mainboard: GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H
HDD: Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB
memory: Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit
Power supply: Antec TruePower Quattro 850
Midi Tower: Aerocool Vx-e Pro
dvd: LG DH-16NS
cost: 1388€ (including 90€ for Windows 7)
Does this setup make sense? Do these components fit together well? Is 850Watt enough for such a strong set up? Do I need any additional cooling system?
Do I understand this crossfire thingy correctly that, should I in the future feel like one HD5850 doesn't do it anymore I can just buy another and run both for better performance?
Is the price OK? (I'm gonna assume that Germany's prices are worse than in USA, like always, so keep that in mind)
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On July 06 2010 21:58 7mk wrote:Hey guys, so I'm a complete noob concerning hardware but want to buy a new badass gaming pc that will last quite a while. I've read my way through some articles, and ended up with this: http://www.alternate.de/html/pcbuilder/detailView.html?cn=1&tn=BUILDERSGPU: Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Mainboard: GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H HDD: Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB memory: Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit Power supply: Antec TruePower Quattro 850 Midi Tower: Aerocool Vx-e Pro dvd: LG DH-16NS cost: 1388€ (including 90€ for Windows 7) Does this setup make sense? Do these components fit together well? Is 850Watt enough for such a strong set up? Do I understand this crossfire thingy correctly that, should I in the future feel like one HD5850 doesn't do it anymore I can just buy another and run both for better performance? Is the price OK? (I'm gonna assume that Germany's prices are worse than in USA, like always, so keep that in mind)
Beware that a lot of graphics cards are HUUUUGE. The card might not fit inside that case.
850W should be enough to power the rig, but if I were to suggest a case it'd be the XCLIO Windtunnel, which is about $80 - it's a full size case with great cooling and HDD mount slots oriented towards the side panel for ease of access.
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On July 06 2010 22:03 Ryhn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2010 21:58 7mk wrote:Hey guys, so I'm a complete noob concerning hardware but want to buy a new badass gaming pc that will last quite a while. I've read my way through some articles, and ended up with this: http://www.alternate.de/html/pcbuilder/detailView.html?cn=1&tn=BUILDERSGPU: Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Mainboard: GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H HDD: Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB memory: Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit Power supply: Antec TruePower Quattro 850 Midi Tower: Aerocool Vx-e Pro dvd: LG DH-16NS cost: 1388€ (including 90€ for Windows 7) Does this setup make sense? Do these components fit together well? Is 850Watt enough for such a strong set up? Do I understand this crossfire thingy correctly that, should I in the future feel like one HD5850 doesn't do it anymore I can just buy another and run both for better performance? Is the price OK? (I'm gonna assume that Germany's prices are worse than in USA, like always, so keep that in mind) Beware that a lot of graphics cards are HUUUUGE. The card might not fit inside that case. 850W should be enough to power the rig, but if I were to suggest a case it'd be the XCLIO Windtunnel, which is about $80 - it's a full size case with great cooling and HDD mount slots oriented towards the side panel for ease of access.
wah, fast response :p
Mh unfortunately the site doesnt have that XCLIO Windtunnel
I'm not sure if I'm actually gonna build this thing myself, since the site offers to do that for you for another 70€.
So you think I should get a "big tower"?
what about this one?
http://www.alternate.de/html/pcbuilder/productDetail.html?searchClass=pccase&artno=TQXA61&cn=1&tn=BUILDERS
that one got very good user ratings (86x 5Star,8x 4Star, 4x 3Star)
link to the one I currently have in the setup: http://www.alternate.de/html/pcbuilder/productDetail.html?searchClass=pccase&artno=TQXR34&cn=1
gotta say though the windtunnel looks pretty sick
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I wouldn't go for the 1090T unless you plan to overclock that beast.
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On July 07 2010 08:53 haduken wrote:
I wouldn't go for the 1090T unless you plan to overclock that beast.
1090T are useless for gaming anyway because games aren't programmed and optimized for 6-cores.
A Phenom II x4 at the same freq has the same performances.
However the x6 have an awesome price/performance ratio for people using softwares like 3ds max but it isn't the best buy for a gaming config.
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1090T are perfectly fine for gaming. It's just a bit less performance than you would expect from a six-core. Overclock it and you will see performance that is just as good as you would expect, and like all BE AMD CPUs, it's easy to OC.
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Thanks guys
I figured that the 1090T still had just such a good price that I might as well get that one and be "safer" for the future, even though it might not make sense for any current games.
I went for that 5850HD cause sapphire was a firm I actually recognised, also on hardwarecanucks.com it got better benchmark ratings than other 5850s, had a different cooler or sth.
mom I'll try to find it
+ Show Spoiler +The HD 5850 Toxic represents a significant step forward for Sapphire and HD 5850 cards in general since it throws out the reference design, adds a custom cooler and pushes clock speeds above and beyond what we are used to seeing. In order to keep the heat from an overclocked core under control, Sapphire has decided to use their Vapor-X cooling technology as well as a truly impressive heatsink design.
What makes the power supplies that you posted better than the Quattro? (I have no idea what makes a good/bad power supply in general..)
Are you positive that 650Watts will be enough, even after overclocking the phenom and adding a second hd5850 eventually?
Thx again, I'll probably make some changes to my config tomorrow, and inform myself about overclocking :p
gotta go to bed now
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After a week of computer inactivity I went to turn on my desktop and it refused to turn on. I took it apart and put it back together outside of the case and it seemed to be fine. Then, I figured I might as well upgrade the cpu/motherboard/ram since I've been wanting to for awhile and I already had it apart.
My previous build looked something like this:
Thermaltake 420W PSU
Athlon X2 64 4200 (2.2Ghz dual core)
6Gb DDR2 Ram (2x2GB + 2x1GB)
Geforce 9600 GT 512mb
3xSATA HD (320GB+350GB+1TB)
SATA DVD burner
Windows Vista x64 Ultimate
I've now swapped out the Athlon for a Core i5 and the memory for 2x2Gb of DDR3. The system boots reasonably fine, but once I log in it's extremely unstable. In under a minute a few important system processes will crash (explorer, etc etc etc) followed rapidly by a blue screen. I ran the memory checker included on the vista disk and no issues were found.
I'm guessing it's because of my PSU. It's a couple years old and it doesn't seem the most stable, since apparently my computer wouldn't even turn on before taking it apart. Are there any guidelines on choosing wattage for PSUs? Does the 420W seem like it's not enough? How can I make sure it's not other things before I spend a bunch of money on a new PSU?
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I don't understand how a PSU could make a software crash.
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well if it's blue screen get the error and go from there.
via err
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192463
Or prevent auto reboot
vista is i think right click my computer and go to properties then click on advance system settings then go to start up and recovery under the advance tab of the system properties dialog box that will pop up. then uncheck automatic reboot or w.e
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I saw a couple of the errors from previous blue screens...
"MEMORY_MANAGEMENT"
"BAD_POOL_CALLER"
...which seems to indicate memory. I'm running the memory checker on the vista disk again and it's failing, so maybe it's just bad memory after all. However, I'm still uncertain if 420W is enough for my system, and if the memory failures are being caused by a shaky power supply.
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It's possible but then that's likely to note dmg thoughout your whole system, just loosen up the timings on the memory of increase the voltage or do both.
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On July 07 2010 10:49 Boblion wrote:
I don't understand how a PSU could make a software crash.
Let me count the ways....
How many ways can problems with your blood make you sick. Power is the very heart and soul of a computer. It is the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega - all things start from the PSU and it is where all things return. Noise, ripple, too much voltage, too little voltage, any deviation from smooth, clean power can screw with the mobo, cpu, ram, whatever - it takes as little as one bit to be seen as ON instead of OFF to throw your system for a loop and grind the whole works to a halt.
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On July 07 2010 11:04 Mumblee wrote:
I saw a couple of the errors from previous blue screens...
"MEMORY_MANAGEMENT"
"BAD_POOL_CALLER"
...which seems to indicate memory. I'm running the memory checker on the vista disk again and it's failing, so maybe it's just bad memory after all. However, I'm still uncertain if 420W is enough for my system, and if the memory failures are being caused by a shaky power supply.
Make a bootable cd with Memtest on it and run it overnight or if you can do something else while it runs. As for the PSU, it could be it too. I used to get BSOD's while playing MW2 and I tried everything, eventually swapped out my PSU and worked like a charm.
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On July 07 2010 09:52 7mk wrote:Thanks guys I figured that the 1090T still had just such a good price that I might as well get that one and be "safer" for the future, even though it might not make sense for any current games. I went for that 5850HD cause sapphire was a firm I actually recognised, also on hardwarecanucks.com it got better benchmark ratings than other 5850s, had a different cooler or sth. mom I'll try to find it + Show Spoiler +The HD 5850 Toxic represents a significant step forward for Sapphire and HD 5850 cards in general since it throws out the reference design, adds a custom cooler and pushes clock speeds above and beyond what we are used to seeing. In order to keep the heat from an overclocked core under control, Sapphire has decided to use their Vapor-X cooling technology as well as a truly impressive heatsink design. What makes the power supplies that you posted better than the Quattro? (I have no idea what makes a good/bad power supply in general..) Are you positive that 650Watts will be enough, even after overclocking the phenom and adding a second hd5850 eventually? Thx again, I'll probably make some changes to my config tomorrow, and inform myself about overclocking :p gotta go to bed now
That really doesn't mean much. It's a good design, but generally a bit overpriced.
650HX probably won't be enough if you add hard drives. It might be pushing it. I don't recommend the corsair at that price anyways as it is far too expensive. The other two options are much better.
@ memory guy
lower the speed to 1066 and loose timings like 9-9-9-24 and see if you get the same problem. Vista memory checker is not as good as memtest86+ for checking memory stability. If it was just your PSU, I think high power components would get hit harder by the fluctuations. The 12V rail is normally the one that gets overloaded.
Another problem might simply be that you are getting enough power to your components. The 3.3/5V rails used to power the CPU as well as the motherboard and others while the 12V was used for GPUs/HDDs/Fans and such, but that has recently changed with the 12V going towards the CPU. If you have an old PSU you might not putting enough power to your CPU/GPU, though I'm not sure if that would actually affect your memory.
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EPT
