So I've seen loads of 'Help me build a computer' threads all over the place and nearly all of them ask the same thing, so I've decided to try and collect all the information and advice given in them into one thread. So I give you the Ultimate Computer Build Thread.
Now just a small disclaimer, I actually know very little about building a computer, pretty much every thing here is just stuff I've collected from trawling through countless other threads. There's also the fact that this sort of stuff goes out of date pretty quickly, so I'll try and keep it updated as much as possible. I've put the date that the builds were posted up where possible, its definitely something you should take into account. There's also a lot of sections that aren't filled in, hopefully people can let me know what's good and bad so I can fix that.
I've divided it up into 3 categories: -Computer Builds that people have posted -Individual parts with prices and comparisons. -Websites where you can buy the parts.
ASUS P7P55 LX LGA 1156 Intel P55 ATX Intel Motherboard - $104.99 Core i5 750 Processor Boxed $160.35 OCZ Agility Series 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) $129.99 OCZ Obsidian 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) $34.80 OCZ Obsidian 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) $87.99 (My first set of RAM was backordered so I ordered another pair from newegg because I'm impatient..and then the other one shipped =p_ COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UW $44.99 Gateway FHD2401 Black 24" 5ms HDMI Widescreen LCD Monitor - 179.99 Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM $99.99 newegg OCZ StealthXStream OCZ500SXS 500W $54.99 obtained COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 Plus $29.99
CPU: i5-750 2.66ghz (quad core) = $195 GPU: Radeon 4870HD (this is probably too high end a graphics card for you) = $155 RAM: Crucial 4GB (2x2) DDR3-1333 SDRAM = $95 MoBo: Foxconn Micro Mobo = $90 (1156 socket, like the CPU) Case: Azza Orion = $35 Hard drive: Samsung spinpoint F3 250GB @ 7200RPM with a 16MB cache = $55 PSU: Diablotek 650w = $50 (on sale at newegg right now I think) ROM: Sony Optiarc DVD burner (has decent speeds) = $30 Cooler: Noctua 92mm cpu cooler = $55
As of now, this section is empty. Hopefully people can recommend various parts and then I can put them in here with prices and performance comparisons. The CPU section is taken from http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/267801-10-buyer-guide and is only a placeholder to show what I hope to have for all sections eventually.
AMD Athlon II 250: This CPU is cheap and very fast at stock speeds. For around $60 bucks you can have a CPU that will run almost any game and make for a very snappy operating environment. This CPU runs very "cool 'n' quiet", and runs in a current socket. It overclocks decently, but not like the e5200. Recommended for running at or around stock speeds for a sure thing.
AMD Athlon II 435: This CPU is cheap and quick, and just over $70. It's fast, it OCs a bit, and isn't very warm. Like the rest of the Athlon II line, it runs in Socket AM3, a modern socket. Recommended for gaming or a compromise between gaming and threaded performance.
Intel Pentium Dual-Core e5200: This CPU is very cheap as well, also around $70. It performs poorly at stock speed, but is a formidable OCer. Of course, OCing is a tossup, you will need a decent motherboard and cooling that will handle the overclock, and you could always get a bad CPU. But if you don't, and you probably won't, you will get some of the best value available. Recommended only for big overclockers.
AMD Phenom II 555: This CPU can be had for around $100, and it smokes both the Athlon II and the Pentium Dual-core at stock and OCd. It brings tremendous value to the table, it will run any current game very well, and there is a decent possibility you can unlock disabled cores on a SB710 or 750 motherboard. A good performer at stock and overclocked speeds. NOT recommended for productivity or media editing PCs, this is all about the gaming.
AMD Athlon II X4: Again, an excellent value low-end quadcore. Can be had for around $100. Outperformed by the Q8400, but cheaper than either that or the Phenom II 720. Not an excellent gaming CPU, it has poor performance-per-clock, but four physical cores allow it to excel in heavily multithreaded applications. Not a great overclocker. Recommended for home and work PCs not used for gaming.
Mid-End.
Intel Core i3 530: This CPU can be had for around $120. Games tremendously, and OCs quite well, if not with the best reliability. Beats the Phenom II 555 just well enough to justify the price premium. If you need more threaded performance, consider the Phenom II 720 (before it's phased out), or the Athlon II X4, which performs much better in more parallel universes.
AMD Phenom II 720: This CPU can be had around $120, and performs very well in gaming, and adequately in encoding or productivity tasks. Overclocks generally well, does not unlock consistently. Will run any game, again, not a great productivity unit. Recommended for gaming and all-purpose PCs.
AMD Phenom II 955: A very solid performer. Can be had for $165, or less with good combo deals. Good overclocker, but can be a bit warm as well. Needs its voltage. Excels in gaming at stock and overclocked, performs well in other areas too. Does not perform at the level of the Core i5 at stock, gains some ground back at higher clocks, but still doesn't consistently win, but it's unit and system cost make it very attractive. Recommended for all medium-end systems. For more performance in this class, look to a Core i5 750 for a little extra dough.
Intel Core i5 750: An excellent performer. Can be had for $200. Excellent overclocker, tends to need alot of voltage. Only real drawback is platform limitations, and to a lesser extent, platform cost. CPU cost can be misleading; the price for a Core i5 systemis generally higher than that of a Core 2 or Phenom II system. Quad-threaded and under performance is excellent, but loses badly to the Phenom II X6 and Core i7s once more threads are in play, and concerns have been raised about the longevity of the LGA-1156 platform relative to LGA-1366 and AM3 platforms, possibly valid. Limited to 8X-8X SLi and Crossfire, not much of an issue outside of top-end GPU configurations. If these are issues, get an AM3 or LGA-1366. Under these conditions, recommended for mid-high-end gaming PCs. Note: requires memory with voltage of 1.65V or lower.
AMD Phenom II 1055T: For $200 the cheapest hexa-core processor out now performs admirably for it's price tag. Comepetes with the more expensive i7 860/920 in more multithreaded applications, but loses quite badly once in less mutithreaded situations. Not a gaming CPU, but a fantastic buy for more productivity-oriented machines. OCing seems good, but I'll update this soon when more results come in. Very strongly recommended for middle-end non-gaming machines.
The LGA1156 platform has issues with Foxconn sockets that are prone to burning under (very) heavy load. As of now, all hell hasn't broken loose, and most if not all failures have been on well-overclocked systems. As always, buy and OC with care.
The High-End.
Intel Core i7 860/920: Here is the big performance - the fastest CPU architecture on the planet. The 920 Can be had for $280, and with a much noticeably more expensive platform cost than the LGA-1156 and AM3 platforms. This architecture has an outrageous performance lead when clock-for-clock, and OCs very high under the right cooling. Be willing to pay a price premium for a D0 stepping processor, which are the best overclockers. The i7 series provides exceptional SLi and Crossfire performance in gaming, and own all non-gaming benchmarks. Recommended for all high-end productivity or top-end, multi-card gaming systems. The 860 has some mild SLi/Crossfire scaling issues, as it only supports an 8x8 interface, but on top-end current-gen cards, this is a <10% performance loss, and usually <5%. If you plan on Crossfiring HD5XX0s, or SLiing Fermis if and when they're released, maybe go with the LGA-1366 platform. The LGA1156 platform has issues with Foxconn sockets that are prone to burning under (very) heavy load. As of now, all hell hasn't broken lose, and most if not all failures have been on well-overclocked systems. As always, buy and OC with care.
AMD Phenom II 1090T: A monster CPU. A blunt-force counter to Intel's superior architecture, this is a very large piece of silicon, with MOAR TRANSISTERS!!! For $20-$30 more than the cheaper i7s, the 1090T tends to outperform them in multithreaded apps, but loses more often than not otherwise. Should overclock well, but we'll see. Recommended for all high-end machines, but pure gamers would likely be better served with an i5 or i7.
To keep this thread up to date would be quite a large amount of work and would be kind of unnecessary given the fact that lots of websites dedicated to pc building make lists for builds all the time. Bit-tech does a monthly build which is pretty good imo. These lists usually give a range of As guidelines they can be pretty useful and the builder can customize things to suit their needs (replacing a 5850 for a 5870 and not getting a sound card or small SSD vs large HD for example).
I also wouldn't advise people to OC if they don't know that much about what they're doing. Excessive voltages or inadequate cooling can shorten the lifespan of a system drastically. Anyone who knows how to OC (well) probably already knows what they would want in a computer anyhow and keeps up to date with releases.
I would actually say the opposite thing about OC. People shouldn't strive for extreme improvements, but settle for more reasonable gains. i7 920s were able to oc about 1ghz on stock voltage or less, and i3 & i5s only oc better. People will need much higher voltages to sustain their 4.2ghz ocs for the said 920 (well, 930 now, and even easier), but why go for that when you can get a 3.6ghz oc riskfree?
i5's overclock terribly at stock voltages, i had to up my voltage to 1.33V to get up to 3.6 ghz, but my core temps are still around 52 at full load so it isn't too much of a problem
On May 11 2010 03:44 ZeaL. wrote: To keep this thread up to date would be quite a large amount of work and would be kind of unnecessary given the fact that lots of websites dedicated to pc building make lists for builds all the time. Bit-tech does a monthly build which is pretty good imo. These lists usually give a range of As guidelines they can be pretty useful and the builder can customize things to suit their needs (replacing a 5850 for a 5870 and not getting a sound card or small SSD vs large HD for example).
I also wouldn't advise people to OC if they don't know that much about what they're doing. Excessive voltages or inadequate cooling can shorten the lifespan of a system drastically. Anyone who knows how to OC (well) probably already knows what they would want in a computer anyhow and keeps up to date with releases.
Well the idea of this thread is that people would post their builds here for advice as well, rather than everyone making a new thread each time. For example look at this:
Also, for parts section. I know it's really low end, but I like to work on the low end stuff. I'm using an ATI Radeon 3450 HD. I know it's nothing much, but it runs Starcraft 2 on Medium/High settings easily for an extremely cheap value (I see it go for as low as 40 dollars on Newegg, even cheaper if you looked hard enough). It runs games like Fallout 3: GOTY edition which are still classics on max settings, and I even managed to squeeze in Bad Company 2 on this card on medium settings with a little OC'ing. It's a pretty decent card if someone doesn't have a bank to spare on a computer.
why ocing a 930? they have turboboost and provide more than enough power in normal mode. i just builded my rig this weekend, tried a couple of games and the cpu just laughed at my gpu. honestly, ocing a brandnew 250 doubledollar cpu like i930 is what you dont want to do. if you want to oc, buy a cheap cpu and oc the shit out of it. but then again, maybe you are some hardcore video editor working in hollywood or doing 4d animations, three at the same time. who knows. for me personally i regret not getting more ram since i do quite a lot of ps and 6gig is ok, but really not blistering at all. ps is a ram whore that for sure.
On May 11 2010 05:29 minus_human wrote: FragKrag would be hurt, and although his thread is dedicated to SC2 computers, I imagine most people on this forum would seek help for the same reason
On May 11 2010 04:54 KOFgokuon wrote: i5's overclock terribly at stock voltages, i had to up my voltage to 1.33V to get up to 3.5 ghz, but my core temps are still around 60 at full load so it isn't too much of a problem
Weird, while I heard things about Lynnfields having lackluster OC at stock due to the pcie controller, I also recall some 1.25~28v ones going pretty well OC wise. One of these days I really should work on ocing this i5 machine I have sitting around.
As for why OC a 930, why not when you don't need to touch voltage and get like 800mhz out of it?
On May 11 2010 04:54 KOFgokuon wrote: i5's overclock terribly at stock voltages, i had to up my voltage to 1.33V to get up to 3.5 ghz, but my core temps are still around 60 at full load so it isn't too much of a problem
Weird, while I heard things about Lynnfields having lackluster OC at stock due to the pcie controller, I also recall some 1.25~28v ones going pretty well OC wise. One of these days I really should work on ocing this i5 machine I have sitting around.
As for why OC a 930, why not when you don't need to touch voltage and get like 800mhz out of it?
depends which voltage you are referring to I suppose, in cpu-z my voltage is listed as 1.296 or so, but in my bios it's set at 1.337 or something, I can't recall off the top of my head
if ur not opening up multiple applications at once when ur playing games like SC2, does going up above 4Gb of RAM is gonna give any significant boost in performance? i'm thinking of building a computer soon and trying to learn exactly what exactly does each component does for u...
actually, do u guys think its advisable for me to build a computer on my own without any prior experiences?
no, it won't give any performance gains, and yes, it's totally worth it. it's a good learning experience, and there are plenty of forums around the internet where you can go if someone goes wrong, and the advice you get will be better than you would get at tech support with dell/asus/whomever. the only issue is warranty, in that you'll have warranties on individual parts which may not last as long as each other
SONY Black 18X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM - $18.99 4GB DDR3 OCZ 1333 RAM - $91.99 Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium - $104.99 Antec 200 Case - $39.99 MSI motherboard mATX - $99.99 Cooler Master 500W - $39.99 WD Caviar Blue 640 GB - $69.99 AMD/ATi 5770 $159.99 Intel i5 2.66ghz $199.99
This along with a spectre 21.5" 1920x1080p monitor came out to like $1000. This computer is awesome as well
edit: I built a very similar system to this with an i7 920, a larger PSU (650w), and 6GB of RAM for myself. Works awesomely as well at what I view as a decent price
what sort of motherboard would u guys recommend if i'm going for i7-860 and ati 5870 video card?
actually would 2x5770 out perform a single 5870 video card? would be nice if u guys can link a few webbies that gives reliable benchmark comparison..
i plan on playing SC2 on ultra settings with fps at least over 50 average throughout the game, budget is within approximately 1200USD, if that is possible...
first attempt at building my own comp to keep the cost down, so if u guys can give me a few pointers it would be greatly appreciated, and which site would u guys suggest me to have a look into for advice on building a pc.
Also, something to consider: Why buy prebuilt. Keep in mind i live in Australia, where we pay $110 for a PS3 game, despite the dollar increase its still a $30+ deficeit. Everything in Australia is quite expensive. I basically order my own parts and build my own computer, its more fun that way and i'm quite educated with computers as a 16 year old (Year 11, double major CISCO/Programming and some extra curricular stuff). Imo, custom build it, the downside is that you don't want to destroy a part by fault of you're own.
On May 11 2010 22:11 Shizuru~ wrote: what sort of motherboard would u guys recommend if i'm going for i7-860 and ati 5870 video card?
actually would 2x5770 out perform a single 5870 video card? would be nice if u guys can link a few webbies that gives reliable benchmark comparison..
i plan on playing SC2 on ultra settings with fps at least over 50 average throughout the game, budget is within approximately 1200USD, if that is possible...
first attempt at building my own comp to keep the cost down, so if u guys can give me a few pointers it would be greatly appreciated, and which site would u guys suggest me to have a look into for advice on building a pc.
performance wise in some games it looks like 2x5770 will outperform a 5870, however because you'd be using an LGA1156 system your PCI-E slots will each only be running at x8, rather than x16 with a single card, or x16 for each slot if you were running AM3 / LGA 1336. I did a little reading, and it's possible that 2x5770 is about at the edge of where having the lower bandwidth (other higher cards i.e. 5850 5870 will definitely be hindered) but 2x5770's might not be. The performance is definitely nice, but make sure you have enough slots on your motherboard, because 5770's take up two slots each
Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
It is 100% worth it. You will not only always get much better performance for your money, but much better quality parts. Dell/HP and whatnot will not use high quality motherboards and they will not use high quality power supplies. Their motherboards often have limited functionality and overclocking capabilities, and if they ever fail, they are expensive to replace because they are not standardized. Worse cooling in pre-built computers as well.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
It is 100% worth it. You will not only always get much better performance for your money, but much better quality parts. Dell/HP and whatnot will not use high quality motherboards and they will not use high quality power supplies. Their motherboards often have limited functionality and overclocking capabilities, and if they ever fail, they are expensive to replace because they are not standardized. Worse cooling in pre-built computers as well.
Do you have any sources to show that they use lower quality parts? Because their computers are definitely cheaper, and if it breaks, it'll probably be covered by the warranty, whereas whatever you build yourself you have to repair yourself.
On May 11 2010 03:44 ZeaL. wrote: To keep this thread up to date would be quite a large amount of work and would be kind of unnecessary given the fact that lots of websites dedicated to pc building make lists for builds all the time. Bit-tech does a monthly build which is pretty good imo. These lists usually give a range of As guidelines they can be pretty useful and the builder can customize things to suit their needs (replacing a 5850 for a 5870 and not getting a sound card or small SSD vs large HD for example).
I also wouldn't advise people to OC if they don't know that much about what they're doing. Excessive voltages or inadequate cooling can shorten the lifespan of a system drastically. Anyone who knows how to OC (well) probably already knows what they would want in a computer anyhow and keeps up to date with releases.
With respect to the effort of the op, this post could replace this thread.
I think even with lower grade computers, if designed with future upgrades in mind, the long term costs should work out to be less than having to replace your computer via purchase from major brand every x years. Honestly, at a certain price point it is very difficult to beat the manufacturers, at least for a single purchase. Assuming no OS pirating and a need for monitor, beating the prices that Dell or HP or whatever can set is quite a task, and at that point you are going to be making a fair amount of compromises on parts.
In general though, I feel that building your own computer gives you a greater flexibility and control on the matter. Warranty for the most part is an additional expense, and if one is a student getting an OS isn't too bad. The ability to OC at a low budget also gives the DIY build quite an edge.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
It is 100% worth it. You will not only always get much better performance for your money, but much better quality parts. Dell/HP and whatnot will not use high quality motherboards and they will not use high quality power supplies. Their motherboards often have limited functionality and overclocking capabilities, and if they ever fail, they are expensive to replace because they are not standardized. Worse cooling in pre-built computers as well.
Do you have any sources to show that they use lower quality parts? Because their computers are definitely cheaper, and if it breaks, it'll probably be covered by the warranty, whereas whatever you build yourself you have to repair yourself.
Well I don't know about lower quality parts, but I know they don't "definitely cheaper". I just went on dell and picked a standard kind of computer they sell and made the same one myself on ncix and mine cost $200 dollars cheaper before tax. I checked some other computers they sell too and dell sells atleast $200ish or more for every single computer. and you mentioned warranty well ncix you can purchase a pc assembly and 1 year warranty for $41. (so you don't even have to build it yourself and you get a 1 year warranty which is the same dell offers).
Also i like how dell pretending its on sale for $999 instead of $1199 ROFL, also my ddr3 ram is faster
edit2: oh yeah i forgot to include a power supply assuming dell includes one too, so add a decent power supply for $100, and my computer is still cheaper by $100 and more for more enthusiast type computers.
On May 11 2010 22:11 Shizuru~ wrote: what sort of motherboard would u guys recommend if i'm going for i7-860 and ati 5870 video card?
actually would 2x5770 out perform a single 5870 video card? would be nice if u guys can link a few webbies that gives reliable benchmark comparison..
i plan on playing SC2 on ultra settings with fps at least over 50 average throughout the game, budget is within approximately 1200USD, if that is possible...
first attempt at building my own comp to keep the cost down, so if u guys can give me a few pointers it would be greatly appreciated, and which site would u guys suggest me to have a look into for advice on building a pc.
performance wise in some games it looks like 2x5770 will outperform a 5870, however because you'd be using an LGA1156 system your PCI-E slots will each only be running at x8, rather than x16 with a single card, or x16 for each slot if you were running AM3 / LGA 1336. I did a little reading, and it's possible that 2x5770 is about at the edge of where having the lower bandwidth (other higher cards i.e. 5850 5870 will definitely be hindered) but 2x5770's might not be. The performance is definitely nice, but make sure you have enough slots on your motherboard, because 5770's take up two slots each
2 5770's wont be hindered at x8 pcie 2.0 maybe on pcie 1.x but not on pcie 2.0 the 5770 is a frailly low bandwidth card it's the main reason it performs just under a 4870 on avg.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
It is 100% worth it. You will not only always get much better performance for your money, but much better quality parts. Dell/HP and whatnot will not use high quality motherboards and they will not use high quality power supplies. Their motherboards often have limited functionality and overclocking capabilities, and if they ever fail, they are expensive to replace because they are not standardized. Worse cooling in pre-built computers as well.
Do you have any sources to show that they use lower quality parts? Because their computers are definitely cheaper, and if it breaks, it'll probably be covered by the warranty, whereas whatever you build yourself you have to repair yourself.
Well I don't know about lower quality parts, but I know they don't "definitely cheaper". I just went on dell and picked a standard kind of computer they sell and made the same one myself on ncix and mine cost $200 dollars cheaper before tax. I checked some other computers they sell too and dell sells atleast $200ish or more for every single computer. and you mentioned warranty well ncix you can purchase a pc assembly and 1 year warranty for $41. (so you don't even have to build it yourself and you get a 1 year warranty which is the same dell offers).
Also i like how dell pretending its on sale for $999 instead of $1199 ROFL, also my ddr3 ram is faster
In the US atleast most computers parts are covered by a 2 year warranty if not longer by the manufacturer, retail parts that is. If you buy oem you may be on your own but that's usually only done for os and rom and hdd's, so if you know how to trouble shoot you're pretty solid.
It's generally cheaper to buy a high performing pc for less then a dell or hp, unless you're buying for sub 600 dollars then it gets muddy.
Also a 920 why would one get a 920 when the 930 is the refined 920 a more consistent chip for 10 more dollars.
i just checked the 930 is on sale and its cheaper than the 920 by 5 bucks lol. i got the 920 cause i was matching the dell for everything. you don't have to worry about oem cause i purchased the pc assembly for $ 41 so i don't have to do any work!
Also I didn't do any price matching or combo deals, you can get the price even lower by quite a bit doing those.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
It is 100% worth it. You will not only always get much better performance for your money, but much better quality parts. Dell/HP and whatnot will not use high quality motherboards and they will not use high quality power supplies. Their motherboards often have limited functionality and overclocking capabilities, and if they ever fail, they are expensive to replace because they are not standardized. Worse cooling in pre-built computers as well.
Do you have any sources to show that they use lower quality parts? Because their computers are definitely cheaper, and if it breaks, it'll probably be covered by the warranty, whereas whatever you build yourself you have to repair yourself.
I'm not really sure what to give you as links, but I will say that if you hang around technical forums such as Anandtech or Hardforum, there is a very agreed upon view that those pre-mades are not as good quality. I have also worked in computer repair for the past 5 years and have a great deal of experience with every maker out there.
The one thing that Dell and those guys do better than anyone is their mega ultra cheap bundles. You can get a low end computer, monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers for like $200 or something sometimes. Downright impossible to do that with buying individual parts when you include the monitor.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
It is 100% worth it. You will not only always get much better performance for your money, but much better quality parts. Dell/HP and whatnot will not use high quality motherboards and they will not use high quality power supplies. Their motherboards often have limited functionality and overclocking capabilities, and if they ever fail, they are expensive to replace because they are not standardized. Worse cooling in pre-built computers as well.
Do you have any sources to show that they use lower quality parts? Because their computers are definitely cheaper, and if it breaks, it'll probably be covered by the warranty, whereas whatever you build yourself you have to repair yourself.
I'm not really sure what to give you as links, but I will say that if you hang around technical forums such as Anandtech or Hardforum, there is a very agreed upon view that those pre-mades are not as good quality. I have also worked in computer repair for the past 5 years and have a great deal of experience with every maker out there.
The one thing that Dell and those guys do better than anyone is their mega ultra cheap bundles. You can get a low end computer, monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers for like $200 or something sometimes. Downright impossible to do that with buying individual parts when you include the monitor.
maybe, but most people posting on a gaming / tech forum wouldn't be interested in some cheapo e-machine-like computer that can barely run SC1, let alone SC2
On May 11 2010 22:11 Shizuru~ wrote: what sort of motherboard would u guys recommend if i'm going for i7-860 and ati 5870 video card?
actually would 2x5770 out perform a single 5870 video card? would be nice if u guys can link a few webbies that gives reliable benchmark comparison..
i plan on playing SC2 on ultra settings with fps at least over 50 average throughout the game, budget is within approximately 1200USD, if that is possible...
first attempt at building my own comp to keep the cost down, so if u guys can give me a few pointers it would be greatly appreciated, and which site would u guys suggest me to have a look into for advice on building a pc.
Dude, 1200 would be WAY overkill for a computer to run SC2 @ ultra, mine was about 700 and can do about that. :D
ONE 5770 would suffice, a 5870 is overkill and 2x5770 is way overkill.
Are we allowed to talk about laptops here? I suppose I will post and if there is an issue, a mod can contact me/delete my post. Or I will edit it.
So I'm looking for a lightweight laptop that can suffice as a "college laptop" that I can bring around to classes, etc, but also be powerful enough to run games like SC2. Anyone got suggestions? Please don't just say "Dell" or "HP"! Thanks all who read
On May 11 2010 22:11 Shizuru~ wrote: what sort of motherboard would u guys recommend if i'm going for i7-860 and ati 5870 video card?
actually would 2x5770 out perform a single 5870 video card? would be nice if u guys can link a few webbies that gives reliable benchmark comparison..
i plan on playing SC2 on ultra settings with fps at least over 50 average throughout the game, budget is within approximately 1200USD, if that is possible...
first attempt at building my own comp to keep the cost down, so if u guys can give me a few pointers it would be greatly appreciated, and which site would u guys suggest me to have a look into for advice on building a pc.
Dude, 1200 would be WAY overkill for a computer to run SC2 @ ultra, mine was about 700 and can do about that. :D
ONE 5770 would suffice, a 5870 is overkill and 2x5770 is way overkill.
mind if u post ur build and ur fps on SC2 on ultra settings? and what resolutions are u running on?
you can run starcraft 2 at ultra with 5770 @ 1920x1080 with pretty good frame rate (30+), and also you only need a 500w psu for 1 5770 (oops you mentioned a $1200 machine, thought you mentioned a 1200w psu, my bad ignore the 500w comment)
also if you want prove i just quickly youtubed this (looks like its 50s?, can't really tell from a youtube video.. i think its very playable)
Considering i've lost my old computer and don't have a lot of money now... i'm making enough money to have been putting some away extra and i plan on building myself something new in a few months. currently looking at about ~$600. Here's what i plan on buying atm:
Case: Xclio Godspeed 737. 2x80mm fans, 120mm fan. Processor: Athlon II x4 620 (best i can do at this point... going to be such a disspointment after the OC'd i7 920.) Heatsink/Fan: Corsair GeminII. (New, cheap, has supposedly good performance.) Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA785GMT-UD2H AM3 RAM: G-skill Ripjaws 2x2gb ddr3-1600 Video Card: Powercolor 5770 (it's the cheapest, if there's something wrong with it i can always just send it back and get a slightly more expensive one) Power Supply: Diablotek PHD series 650w (once again, cheap, and i trust the manufacturer. it's not advisable to just buy random bargain basement power supplies, but i've used this series several times and never had a failure, don't really know if they've failed for anyone i put them together for but I doubt it... seem to be pretty high build quality for being so cheap.) Hard Drive: Caviar Black 640gb. Good performance for the price.
Total price is about $670 w/ shipping. I'm willing to pay that extra hundred because i just couldn't live with lower performance... would be no point in buying it anyway. I may even splurge even more and go for an 890gx board so i can have sata 6gb/s and usb 3, as well as more upgradeability in the future.
http://shop.revonate.com/default.asp I like this site thought it might be crappy gateway and acer comps that have been refurbished there are killer deals with little to know building needed. I got a i7 920, 9gb ram, NVIDIA GTX 260, 750gb hd, a legit operating system (vista yuck but hey its legit :D) For 717+ shipping(refurbished/scratch and dent). That was back in January. If you are on a budget there are plenty of comps in the 250-300 range that you just need to spend 100-150 on a PSU and a graphics card to run SC2 just fine =]
IMO if you just learn the basics of what is compatible with one another, you can go through Newegg's deals and combo discounts to get a full build that is cheaper than any recommended by a site or forum post, because those cannot take the short term special deals into account. My current computer was $1100 before the monitor, running a Phenom II X6, 4 GB DDR3 RAM, and a Sapphire HD5870. I could've got it down to $1000 easily if I were smart enough to read all the Newegg reviews to see that my HD5870 is stuck at stock volts, and gotten a HD5850 to overclock higher.
So if you're new at building computers, the main compatibility issues you should know are: 1. Sockets, chipsets, and CPUs. Intel's LGA1156 socket motherboards run the H5x and P55 chipsets. H55 and H57 are best for dual-core i3's and i5's, enabling their integrated graphics. P55 is used for the i5 750 and i7 8xx series (also the Xeon X3440), quad cores without integrated graphics. LGA1336 runs the X58 chipset, and these motherboards are exclusively for the i7 9xx series. LGA775 has been made obsolete by LGA1156, but back in the day it ran Core2(Duo/Quad) and the later Pentium 4's. For AMD, it's easier to remember: just get an AM3 board for any modern CPU recommended by a forum post or website. AM3 also is very likely to support AMD's next generation CPUs, an advantage over Intel whose new CPUs in 2011 will not run in current motherboards. 2. Types and quantities of RAM. Get DDR2 for any LGA775 or AM2 motherboard, DDR3 for any modern motherboard. 4 or 6 GB will work for LGA1366, otherwise go for 4 GB. 3. Will your motherboard support SLI/Crossfire? 4. Your power supply must provide enough power to your system, taking future SLI/crossfire possibilities into account. 5. Is your CPU cooler designed to work well with your CPU and motherboard?
That is all I can think of for new builds with recent parts. If you have really old parts and want to upgrade, it will probably not be worth it but there are additional things to worry about like AGP vs PCI-Express, SATA hard drives, whether or not your processor can run 64-bit windows, older motherboard sockets...
On May 12 2010 09:20 [cF]TridenT wrote: http://shop.revonate.com/default.asp I like this site thought it might be crappy gateway and acer comps that have been refurbished there are killer deals with little to know building needed. I got a i7 920, 9gb ram, NVIDIA GTX 260, 750gb hd, a legit operating system (vista yuck but hey its legit :D) For 717+ shipping(refurbished/scratch and dent). That was back in January. If you are on a budget there are plenty of comps in the 250-300 range that you just need to spend 100-150 on a PSU and a graphics card to run SC2 just fine =]
That site is amazing. You can get a gateway with a q9300, 4gb of ddr2-800 (while it is cheap oem brand) for only $283. That's cheaper than just the proc/memory on newegg. With a new psu/video card... amazing find. No overclocking though D:
On May 12 2010 08:44 Shivaz wrote: you can run starcraft 2 at ultra with 5770 @ 1920x1080 with pretty good frame rate (30+), and also you only need a 500w psu for 1 5770 (oops you mentioned a $1200 machine, thought you mentioned a 1200w psu, my bad ignore the 500w comment)
also if you want prove i just quickly youtubed this (looks like its 50s?, can't really tell from a youtube video.. i think its very playable) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=waRqjZeaFmI
You wouldn't want to run it at ultra you want to turn down shaders and lights to high, you get too much of a drop in fps when a large protoss army comes into play with lights on ultra, you also get large drops from creep.
5770 is best played at mostly ultra but not at ultra.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
It is 100% worth it. You will not only always get much better performance for your money, but much better quality parts. Dell/HP and whatnot will not use high quality motherboards and they will not use high quality power supplies. Their motherboards often have limited functionality and overclocking capabilities, and if they ever fail, they are expensive to replace because they are not standardized. Worse cooling in pre-built computers as well.
Do you have any sources to show that they use lower quality parts? Because their computers are definitely cheaper, and if it breaks, it'll probably be covered by the warranty, whereas whatever you build yourself you have to repair yourself.
Well I don't know about lower quality parts, but I know they don't "definitely cheaper". I just went on dell and picked a standard kind of computer they sell and made the same one myself on ncix and mine cost $200 dollars cheaper before tax. I checked some other computers they sell too and dell sells atleast $200ish or more for every single computer. and you mentioned warranty well ncix you can purchase a pc assembly and 1 year warranty for $41. (so you don't even have to build it yourself and you get a 1 year warranty which is the same dell offers).
Also i like how dell pretending its on sale for $999 instead of $1199 ROFL, also my ddr3 ram is faster
edit2: oh yeah i forgot to include a power supply assuming dell includes one too, so add a decent power supply for $100, and my computer is still cheaper by $100 and more for more enthusiast type computers.
it took me a while to figure out what you were doing here. I guess you're looking at the dell canada site, which has really different computers than their US site (and much worse deals, apparently). On the US site I can get basically the same computer as the build you listed for $900, with ddr3 ram. So, it's not any cheaper, but it doesn't make me want to do the extra work to build it myself.
Antec: Antec is a very trusted power supply retailer that is known for solid PSUs that perform above or at their stated wattage in general. Feel safe when you buy one!
EarthWatts 380D/430D/500D 80+ Bronze Certified: For smaller builds that do not require as much power. Of the Three power supplies, only the 500D has enough PCIe connectors (6 and 6+2 pin) for a graphics card that requires two. The 430D and 300D only have one PCIe (6 pin). All are 80+ Bronze which means that they will operate above 82% efficiency at all times. Should be from $50 from the lowest to $60ish to the highest. They are Sea Sonic OEMs as far as I know, which means they should have high quality parts and construction.
EarthWatts 650W 80+ Certified: For those medium builds to high builds that need the extra power for a graphics card like the ATi HD 5870 or something similar. It also has two PCIe connectors (6 and 6+2 pin). It is 80+ Certified which means it will operate at above 80% efficiency. It is a fairly cheap power supply at around $75 and it is decent quality. There are often combo deals with this power supply on Newegg and it is a fairly popular product. This power supply is not modular which means you will have to be able to hide the cables.
TruePower 650W/750W 80+ Bronze Certified: For the medium to high end builds that like the EarthWatts 650W need more power. Both of these power supplies have 4 PCIe connectors (2x 6 pin, 2x 6+2 pin). It is 80+ Bronze which means it will operate at above 82% efficiency. They go anywhere from $90 to $110 on Newegg depending on the time. They are generally good quality, and semi- modular, which should make cable management a bit easier. They however, are not fully modular (by the looks of it, 4-5 cables are hard wired). Anywhere from $100-110 on Newegg.
Corsair: Probably the most respected brand of PSU. Known for very high quality parts, and using CWT/Sea Sonic OEMs, which are two very well respected manufacturers. Generally comes at a price premium.
650TX 80+ Certified: Similar to the Antec Earthwatts. Almost the same actually because the features are much the same. It is priced around the same as well (sometimes around $10 more) which means it could be a difficult choice at times. The biggest differences between this and the EarthWatts 650W are that the Corsair has a single 12V rail vs the EarthWatt’s multi 12V rail (no idea what the difference is), and the Corsair has 2x 6+2 pins instead of 1x 6 pin and 1x 6+2 pin. It will be able to power a graphics card that requires two 8 pin connectors, but those are very rare so the difference is negligible. This is a CWT OEM, and is NOT modular. Anywhere from $70-90 on Newegg
750TX 80 + Certified: Similar to the 650TX, except different in two ways. It provides 100W of extra power, and it has 4x 6+2 pin which means it can power many different cards in a dual CrossFire/SLI mode. Anywhere from $90-110 on Newegg
650HX 80+ Bronze: Similar to the Antec 650W TruePower, but sports a single 12V rail as opposed to the 4 of the 650W TruePower. The major difference is that this power supply is almost fully modular which means that all of the cables except the essential 24 pin and 8 pin are added at your whim. Makes cable management much easier. Anywhere from $100-110 on Newegg.
750HX 80+ Silver (Gold): This sports 4x 6+2 pin, and while Corsair markets it as 80+ Silver, it is actually an 80+ Gold PSU. It is very similar to the 650HX except it is more power efficient, and provides more power. Anywhere from $140-170 on Newegg
Sea Sonic: Most respected PSU manufacturer for ‘people in the know’ because of rock solid PSU quality. Normally sells OEMs to retailers like Corsair and Antec, but also sells its own PSUs.
X650/X750 80+ Gold: Fully modular PSUs that sport 4x 6+2 Pin. It is the highest efficiency rating, and apparently the fan on the CPU doesn’t even turn on until it gets to like 300W load! Both are fully modular which means all of the cables come detached, and you add the ones you need. X650 around $160, X750 around $180 on Newegg.
It's a bit half assed but whatever. I'll see if I can add some Cooler Master and Silverstone sometime.
I'm not sure I really understand how this thread is going though because it seems to be traveling down 2 paths that I'm not sure make too much sense.
I would recommend against giving any general overview builds based on other users at all costs. They are actually fairly useless as starting points, and become outdated very quickly because of how quickly the prices change. The information is quickly obsolete, and quite frankly useless.
It would have been better if the parts were actually finished before the posting as well :/ Seems a bit half assed to me since all that was done was copying a few (obsolete) builds, an outdated piece from Tom's Hardware, and a few links...
Antec: Antec is a very trusted power supply retailer that is known for solid PSUs that perform above or at their stated wattage in general. Feel safe when you buy one!
EarthWatts 380D/430D/500D 80+ Bronze Certified: For smaller builds that do not require as much power. Of the Three power supplies, only the 500D has enough PCIe connectors (6 and 6+2 pin) for a graphics card that requires two. The 430D and 300D only have one PCIe (6 pin). All are 80+ Bronze which means that they will operate above 82% efficiency at all times. Should be from $50 from the lowest to $60ish to the highest. They are Sea Sonic OEMs as far as I know, which means they should have high quality parts and construction.
EarthWatts 650W 80+ Certified: For those medium builds to high builds that need the extra power for a graphics card like the ATi HD 5870 or something similar. It also has two PCIe connectors (6 and 6+2 pin). It is 80+ Certified which means it will operate at above 80% efficiency. It is a fairly cheap power supply at around $75 and it is decent quality. There are often combo deals with this power supply on Newegg and it is a fairly popular product. This power supply is not modular which means you will have to be able to hide the cables.
TruePower 650W/750W 80+ Bronze Certified: For the medium to high end builds that like the EarthWatts 650W need more power. Both of these power supplies have 4 PCIe connectors (2x 6 pin, 2x 6+2 pin). It is 80+ Bronze which means it will operate at above 82% efficiency. They go anywhere from $90 to $110 on Newegg depending on the time. They are generally good quality, and semi- modular, which should make cable management a bit easier. They however, are not fully modular (by the looks of it, 4-5 cables are hard wired). Anywhere from $100-110 on Newegg.
Corsair: Probably the most respected brand of PSU. Known for very high quality parts, and using CWT/Sea Sonic OEMs, which are two very well respected manufacturers. Generally comes at a price premium.
650TX 80+ Certified: Similar to the Antec Earthwatts. Almost the same actually because the features are much the same. It is priced around the same as well (sometimes around $10 more) which means it could be a difficult choice at times. The biggest differences between this and the EarthWatts 650W are that the Corsair has a single 12V rail vs the EarthWatt’s multi 12V rail (no idea what the difference is), and the Corsair has 2x 6+2 pins instead of 1x 6 pin and 1x 6+2 pin. It will be able to power a graphics card that requires two 8 pin connectors, but those are very rare so the difference is negligible. This is a CWT OEM, and is NOT modular. Anywhere from $70-90 on Newegg
750TX 80 + Certified: Similar to the 650TX, except different in two ways. It provides 100W of extra power, and it has 4x 6+2 pin which means it can power many different cards in a dual CrossFire/SLI mode. Anywhere from $90-110 on Newegg
650HX 80+ Bronze: Similar to the Antec 650W TruePower, but sports a single 12V rail as opposed to the 4 of the 650W TruePower. The major difference is that this power supply is almost fully modular which means that all of the cables except the essential 24 pin and 8 pin are added at your whim. Makes cable management much easier. Anywhere from $100-110 on Newegg. 750HX 80+ Silver (Gold): This sports 4x 6+2 pin, and while Corsair markets it as 80+ Silver, it is actually an 80+ Gold PSU. It is very similar to the 650HX except it is more power efficient, and provides more power. Anywhere from $140-170 on Newegg
Sea Sonic: Most respected PSU manufacturer for ‘people in the know’ because of rock solid PSU quality. Normally sells OEMs to retailers like Corsair and Antec, but also sells its own PSUs.
X650/X750 80+ Gold: Fully modular PSUs that sport 4x 6+2 Pin. It is the highest efficiency rating, and apparently the fan on the CPU doesn’t even turn on until it gets to like 300W load! Both are fully modular which means all of the cables come detached, and you add the ones you need. X650 around $160, X750 around $180 on Newegg.
It's a bit half assed but whatever. I'll see if I can add some Cooler Master and Silverstone sometime.
I'm not sure I really understand how this thread is going though because it seems to be traveling down 2 paths that I'm not sure make too much sense.
I would recommend against giving any general overview builds based on other users at all costs. They are actually fairly useless as starting points, and become outdated very quickly because of how quickly the prices change. The information is quickly obsolete, and quite frankly useless.
It would have been better if the parts were actually finished before the posting as well :/ Seems a bit half assed to me since all that was done was copying a few (obsolete) builds, an outdated piece from Tom's Hardware, and a few links...
Yeah it be easier to set price points then give several builds off those common price points
$600 $800 $1000 $1200 $1500 anything above that is just lol unless your running 30in monitors.
I'd just aim like $550 $750 $900 $1100 $1400 to account for shipping and or tax.
Only issue with assigning builds is that there are deals everyday which can be had along with price changes or other things that may come up that form week to week could change the viability of the build.
Generally just giving a good parts bad parts over view would be best then just listing builds. As different markets you can get different things like in Europe generally you see more builds with cooler master psu's in it i'm guessing a price difference and alot of brands price differently when it's in a different area.
gpu: 2 pieces of ati 5770hd, or maybe just one 5870hd, haven't really made up my mind yet.
psu:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102873&cm_re=5770_hd-_-14-102-873-_-Product (saw a good price on this part, but is it overkill to get a 650W unit?)
transfer speed 6 gb/s hard drives I believe are the newer format, not that many hard drives have been released, tested, and widely used that use that new format as far as I know, that could be wrong. It's like usb 3.0, a new feature which hasn't been really used yet
I use asus, some people prefer gigabyte, others like EVGA or MSI. Honestly, pick one with features that you like, colors that you like, and just remember that if you go 2x5770 you need at least 4 expansion slots, 2 of which must be pci-e that are spaced 2 slots apart (because your cards will each cover 2 slots) and the more spacing the better.
Well, when it comes to running multiple GPUs on P55 we could consider some more specific features on the mobo that might enable additional pcie lanes, but that's not particularly an issue with 2x 5770 if memory serves. But yeah...mobos are almost all the same at some point after you adjust for price and functionality some. Rather amusing that color should almost be a primary concern and the reason I am kind of regretting using EVGA instead of Gigabyte/Asus (I hate red, and I love blue )
yea i've read some conflicting statements about whether 2x5770 is limited by p55 or not, but they were mainly posts from forum users (on other forums) rather than actual articles...so meh.
i thought i'd post a little about a build i had about a few weeks ago
from canada, i order and pickup from a local NCIX (ncix.com) they do a pricematching service and have large discounts in weekly sales so basically if you find a price on newegg for the same part, you can file a pricematch request when you go for a bill, and they'll either match the price exactly (which happens in almost every case) or counter with a price that isn't 'below cost' to them i know that they ship reliably to the states too but filing RMA's or returning defects'll be more of a hassle than bringing it back to a local store.dependign on how badly you need the parts on say a weekend
anyway, this is a i3 system, ranging at about 800$ i don't have an invoice anymore, but i'll post some of the current prices for newegg, since they tend to be the cheapest.
totalling at about 755 before tax with rebates of about 45 i left out the harddrive, there's lots of options you have, but it hink the caviar black series (640gb?) is pretty popular at around the 80$ range
i3 is a newer dual core by intel, probably the last one they'll make which has hyperthreading (4 virtual cores) but only runs on two. comes in pretty high stock speeds and can be OC'ed close tot he 4ghz range on stock cooler, and up to about 4.2ghz on better cooling... it tasks well but the price is slightly higher than it should be for a dual core. similar to the i5 670, which is another part of the 'i' series witth an even higher stock speed. you always pay a little higher for new tech : ( but a solid cpu by review so far.... two options on the i3 being 530/540. only difference being the stock speeds, and the 540 seems to like at a higher multiplier when it comes to overclocking
ram is dd3 1600 at 9-9-9-24 really popular stick of ram, originall i chose a pair of ocz ddr3 at lower timings but ocz ram tends to come defected really often, and gskill is reliable haha.
video card is a 1gb card, similar to the 8800, 9800 series by nvidia, except upgraded to run at higher clock and memory speeds you have many good options on the ATI side for video cards at the 120-150$ price range, and even an older ATI card in crossfire will do better than the gts250 still the video card runs relatively cool , (33c idle, 45 load) and is supposed to be pretty energy efficient. also decent at sli//overlocking
haf 932 case by coolermaster is well designed, comes with a few 120-140mm fans at the side, top, and front for good air flow. (IMO the front red led fan runs louder than the rest, but they all can be replaced in many different styles) a tower e-atx case that supports all sizes down to itx or matx i believe. really nice hotswappable hard drive bays, and screwless design. i thinkt he only thing you need screws for is the side panels, which clamp on firmly and come with like 8 extra thumbscrews haha. again, lots of options for cooling, including top and bottom slots for power supply, top-mountable radiator for liquid cooling, and full honeycomb grills at the front, including the non-use drive bays.
the power supply is just a regular 700w rated at 80+ efficiency, which is becoming something of a standard now... it hink it's rated at 90+ actually at certain power ratings. modular which i really reccomend even if you're not going for a large build because the amount of wires attached to the PSU is minimal.... aaand has rubberized addon for anti-shock etc haha
the motherboard in the build is a p55 board even though the i3, i5 cpus come with integrated graphics (which can decode HD video supposedly) when added with a h55m board. the stupid thing is that the p55m-ud2 motherboard by gigabyte (brand i reccomend for mobo's) is matx (smaller than normal motherboards) for a eatx case (larger than normal) but.. that wasn't really my choice haha
overall you have a lot of choices when it comes to part under a certain spec these days, soemtimes several and soemtimes only a few good options that are really available. this sort of build has a lot of upgrade options like, adding another pair of ram sticks for 8gb total, adding anohter video card for SLI//crossfire even updating the CPU for a newer (lga1156 socketin this case) one if you really need to. all doable for maybe 500$ more tops. and should perform like a mid-high end computer, if not very comparable to high enders once overclocked
To be honest, that build has a huge amount of waste :/
You're getting a 700W powersupply for an extremely energy efficient CPU and GPU combo on a motherboard that only supports 1 GPU at a useable bandwidth.
You're getting a fulltower for a setup that puts out very little heat, and you are buying an mATX board.
Also a low end P55 board that really has no benefits over a decent H55 board (though they probably cost around the same).
You only really need P55 for an i5-750 or i7-860 etc. H55 is meant for the lower end cpus
You could cut alot of the price there but more realistically easily cut 100 by choosing different parts more if you want to just go aggressive at it but eh generally you cut some things to spend more on others.
I have nothing against getting a great case like HAF 932 cost a bit of money but then you don't need a new case for years.
A little bit less then your old build + now running a 5770 nearly the same psu but a 600w version 20 bucks off
you only need a 600w to crossfire a 5770, 40amps is plenty
75w+75 = 150w 2x= 300w
12v*40a = 480w
And knowing a thing or two about crossfire it will never get close to drawing 300w sli maybe would but sli has better gains for it.
It's okay to "over buy" on some parts if you are planning to rebuild again and will need the better parts for future use. I bought a bigger case and larger Corsair psu than I needed last time because I want to build an i5 system with a better video card in about 6 months. Assuming the following is still a great sweet spot by then:
On May 14 2010 10:12 semantics wrote: lol 670... an i5-750 can be oced to 4.0 and with the extra 100 dollars you can buy a 100 dollar cpu cooler if you wanted to keep it ultra cool!
On May 12 2010 07:56 Shivaz wrote: what resolution are you looking at, and price range.
Ummm id just say widescreen. Honestly I'm laptop savy at all. I don't know the average weight or typical hardware. I guess I just want it to be light enough to lug around at college but powerful enough to play games.
Are there any diagnostic programs/tools you guys would recommend for after you get your system up and running? I built my computer a couple of weeks ago, and I was getting some really funky readings from CPU-Z about my CPU and memory. After reading a bunch of sites, I was able to correct what appeared to be the problems, and now I'm getting normal readings, but windows 7 still seems to be booting fairly slowly, and it often feels somewhat sluggish. I get pretty good readings on the WEI (I don't know how useful that is) but I really feel like it should be faster. I've got Phenom II x4 955, M4A89GTD PRO/USB3, 4GB ocz AMD BE, HD 5850.
If i was to put in a little more money, where should it go (besides the monitor). I want to build this computer unless there is an extremely good price for a refurbished one.
If i was to put in a little more money, where should it go (besides the monitor). I want to build this computer unless there is an extremely good price for a refurbished one.
Ok, so I think that I may need a bigger case for this. The reviews for the 5830 and 5850 say that they barely fit into a mid sized case. Do you know anything about this? The case is 18.30" x 8.10" x 18.00", and the cards are 28cm long, so it should fit easily, unless there is something that I am overlooking. Should I spring for a bigger/better case with a better cooling system? Will I need a cooling system with the antec 300 or with a better case? Also, how do I check to see if the power supply will be sufficient for everything?
I would just buy a good motherboard and add in a usb 3.0 card or sata III if i happen to need it. 3.0 or sata imo shouldn't be a defining selling point just an after thought for now.
Alot of USB 3.0 set ups are full speed all the time or they do it by stealing lanes from the pcie slots which make crossfire or sli set ups compromised in performance.
Yes, but those motherboards aren't I believe those are usually the P55 motherboards because the PCIe lanes need to power both SATA III and USB 3.0. Now with the new AMD SB850 the SATA III is moved to the chipset, so USB 3.0 steals off the PCIe lane (but not off of the GPU bandwidth)
At least not the ASUS motherboard, and it would cost a good $30-40 to get a decent add-on card anyways.
USB 3.0 implementations are different from board to board not everyone is selling you the full thing, an Add in card is more likely to be a full performer
30 bucks for a sata III and USB 3.0 that does do full speed accord to reviews ofc you sacrifice 4 lanes of PCIe but you would have anyways in a P55 or X58 implementation and probably only 1 2 lanes in a AMD 890 set up.
it's better then the eggs show it lol
reviews like this plague it "Cons: Would not boot when any drive was attached to it. It just sat at the Initializing screen. With no drive attached the computer would boot, but this obviously does no good whatsoever. This was attached to the PCI-e x16 slot on my 780i SLI motherboard with an Intel X25-M G2 SSD attached. It failed with this drive, a Seagate 750 GB SATA II drive and an LG optical drive."
it's not a plug in play card but i could find one probably for a few more dollars.
What do you mean 'may not be necessary'? Nothing is truly necessary, but it's quite obvious that people use USB a lot (external hard drives, flash drives, etc) which all benefit immensely with USB 3.0.
If there is a bit of money to spend, an extra $20 for USB 3.0 and SATA 3 is great. (Along with a newer chipset)
imo with enough time and a good motherboard it has quite a potential (i found only 2 motherboards with default usage of all cores but i'm from total technological backwater so you can ave more info on that).
imo with enough time and a good motherboard it has quite a potential (i found only 2 motherboards with default usage of all cores but i'm from total technological backwater so you can ave more info on that).
A six core processor has all the obvious advantages of having 6 physical cores. It doesn't really produce a lot of heat though. It's also the most expensive of AMD's processors, which is kind of a turn off for some people. I wish AMD would switch to 32nm though. Until they do i don't think we'll get the full potential (clockspeeds, cache, etc) out of 6 core processors. Unless you need massive rendering performance, lots of memory bandwidth etc there isn't much use for a 6 core processor atm. You can get a good deal on a 955 or 965 be and it'll be a good amount cheaper.
imo with enough time and a good motherboard it has quite a potential (i found only 2 motherboards with default usage of all cores but i'm from total technological backwater so you can ave more info on that).
It's an awesome core for people who can use all of them (encoding), and it can overclock fairly well (like all the C3 AMD Phenom IIs), but as far as gaming usage goes, I don't think you will see much of an improvement with the 6 core processor over the cheaper AMD Phenom II X4 955.
There are many more motherboards that support the 6 cores, some of them just need BIOS updates, but all of the new 8xx series chipset motherboards should be able to support the new 6 cores right out of the box.
The low end builds in this thread seem a bit excessive. A low end build shouldn't cost more than $500.
I would also recommend anybody interested in running SC2 at max and SC2 only spend NO more than $500 on their computer. Anything above that will be overkill. Low end:
Note* You can actually save more if you decide to go with an AMD cpu/mobo platform. I'm not experienced with AMD, so I can't make a recommendation there. Also, you can save money with a cheaper case, reusing your old hard drive, etc. Be creative and yes you can max sc2 and save even MORE money.
If you guys doubt the 5750 being able to max SC2, just look here:
On May 22 2010 10:09 FragKrag wrote: Even with the i7s there is a choice between LGA 1366 and LGA 1156. I wrote a guide on my SC2 Computers thread but nobody probably reads it ><
HDStarcraft that is a bit extreme. $500 will not run SC2 at max.
FragKrag,
I edited my post with a build. I strongly believe this will max SC2 for <$500. Let me know what you think.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
Are you kidding me? This is the piece of shit that HP offers for $800:
Now if you go with an AMD platform, that should bring the total back under $500.
Anyways I think its definitely possible to have a rig capable of maxing sc2 for $500 if one does his or her research and purchases intelligently.As a nice plus, consider recycling your current parts: hard drives, power supply, and/or case.
On May 12 2010 00:26 Luddite wrote: Do you think there's really much benefit to building a computer yourself from parts these days? Maybe for super high end systems there is, but it seems like for an average computer you can get the same performance cheaper by buying a stock computer.
Are you kidding me? This is the piece of shit that HP offers for $800:
4.7 out of 5 stars (12 reviews) Lightning-fast multimedia PC delivers high-performance computing with Intel Core i5. Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-750 quad-core processor [2.66GHz, 1MB L2 + 8MB shared L3 cache] FREE UPGRADE! 6GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [3 DIMMs] from 4GB FREE UPGRADE! 750GB 7200 rpm SATA 3Gb/s hard drive from 500GB 512MB ATI Radeon HD 4350 [DVI, HDMI, VGA adapter] Norton Internet Security(TM) 2010 - 15 month
Agreed. Never ever buy a pre-built computer! They rip you off very badly, and its always wiser to buy the components and piece it together yourself. Building a computer is seriously as easy as slapping all the parts together and turning it on. Not to mention the added benefit of knowing how to REPAIR your computer or specific component should it fail in the future.
Thanks for this thread, it's been quite helpful to me.
What do you hardware heads think about this build? The idea here being that if/when I want to upgrade, I can throw another 5770 in there. Also, I know the antec case is unpopular with a few posters here, but a friend has vouched for it and I value his word.
I'm actually planning to rebuild my computer sometime soon. My loop is actually getting really murky, and my radiator is getting clogged with dust =/
Well that's why i don't water cool it needs maintenance just like everything else except water cooling cost me a 200-400 dollar premium every time i get something new and that makes me wallet sad.
It is sexxy if you're going for high end look into what controller it uses currently the newest sandforce controllers is where it's at, esp in write speeds.
Both of them are miles ahead of any Zalman on the market.
The idea with the Antec 900 is that it was an awesome case when it first came out, but now there are better cases on the market like the Cooler Master HAF 922, Lian Lis, etc.
Ok, thanks for the advice. I'm a total noob at this stuff. A lot (powersupply, mobo, vid card) of the stuff I picked because it was part of a bundle deal on newegg, but they won't add bundles to wishlists.
What are the advantages of USB 3.0 and SATA III?
Also, sound is a concern to me, which of the better cases would you recommend?
Ah I see, if it works that way then it should be fine. USB 3.0 is supposedly 10x faster than USB 2.0, and SATA III is 2x faster than SATA II. Whereas you probably will never use SATA III to its potential if you aren't using a SSD drive, USB is commonly used, and as soon as USB 3.0 support becomes widespread (in around 1 year), more and more products will begin supporting it.
24dBA is still much less noisy than the HDDs which will be around 40ish dB. Won't really matter too much if you hear your fans if there is a noisy HDD spinning along. The fans also move like 60CFM which is much more than most of the other 120mm fans that I have seen.
That's only when hdds are writing or reading alot i have an ssd so i only hear whispers and i love it well except when i start up a movie on one of my storage drives then i hear the hdd turning on etc.
On May 24 2010 14:02 FragKrag wrote: 24dB isn't exactly very loud either though.
and if you have a GPU (what gaming rig doesn't?) then you will still have a GPU fan idling above the CPU fan ;/
Not my fans i have an aftermarket cooler for my gpu and my fans are about the same amount of loud as my cpu cooler.
Also modren gpu coolers idle pretty low, in games if it ramps up a big isn't not too much of a big deal as the sound from the game can drown it out mostly.
silence is key for me even after running a heavy oc. I watch movies and record shows on my computer to be played back on my tv if it's not quiet i'll be annoyed. But it's also nice while suring the Internet and doing general computing.
Yes, Scythe Slipstreams are some of the best noise/performance ratio fans in the market. If they're too noisy you can play around with the voltages. Noctua fans are also really good as well but gosh they're so fucking expensive here in Australia.
Speaking of CPU heatsinks, the quality of the heatsink depends on its performance during load. The Zalmans are a bit dodgy at this and will get demolished by the flagship Thermalright/Cogage coolers, the Noctua U12P/D14, and Prolimatech Megahalem. But those are extremely expensive...if you want a really budget CPU cooler that performs extremely well, nothing out there competes against the Cooler Master Hyper 212+.
On May 24 2010 09:37 Rho_ wrote: Ok, thanks for the advice. I'm a total noob at this stuff. A lot (powersupply, mobo, vid card) of the stuff I picked because it was part of a bundle deal on newegg, but they won't add bundles to wishlists.
What are the advantages of USB 3.0 and SATA III?
Also, sound is a concern to me, which of the better cases would you recommend?
The Antec Performance One series of cases are still the best cases around for pretty much everything.
its a heavy motherfucker but its still the best case I've ever used. I see the weight as a benefit as it means it won't rattle around like some poorer designs out there offered by NZXT and Lian Li.
personally, I only see weight as issue if you need to use the case for lan parties. otherwise it honestly doesn't matter since the Performance One series is pretty well designed internally. mine is sitting ontop of my desk and I haven't found a reason to move it yet despite installing and swapping out lots of stuff.
On May 24 2010 15:12 FragKrag wrote: Poorer Lian Li? Lian Li cases have quite the reputation of being rock solid.
and Aluminum
lian li cases have some of the best designed tool-less systems but that's about it. some designs like the V1000 have the old "aluminum rattle" because they're so light and the build quality isn't totally consistent. these days they really don't do anything better than any other manufacturer beside aluminum, since most companies don't really bother too much with it, and honestly hang with silverstone for the most overpriced case solutions.
some things just hold onto their reputation well. lian li's build quality is as inconsistent, in this case not very, as any other company these days in the very competitive computer hardware market. just like how basically no one makes absolute rubbish cpu coolers these days, no one makes shitty cases anymore.
aluminum is completely overrated considering the price premium you are paying for it. again, the only point of aluminum is if you use your computer for lan parties. otherwise there are completely no benefits over the trusty steel enclosure.
the noisiest part of my computer by far are my CD drives when they start up holy shit it's loud I can't even hear the rest of my comp over the sound of my air conditioning in the background lol
On May 25 2010 06:22 KOFgokuon wrote: the noisiest part of my computer by far are my CD drives when they start up holy shit it's loud I can't even hear the rest of my comp over the sound of my air conditioning in the background lol
Yeah that is why i have all my disks as an iso on my computer, dvd and cd drives are shit loud even after adding some rubber to muffle it and getting a case with a door you can hear it by far over everything else.
On May 24 2010 15:12 FragKrag wrote: Poorer Lian Li? Lian Li cases have quite the reputation of being rock solid.
and Aluminum
lian li cases have some of the best designed tool-less systems but that's about it. some designs like the V1000 have the old "aluminum rattle" because they're so light and the build quality isn't totally consistent. these days they really don't do anything better than any other manufacturer beside aluminum, since most companies don't really bother too much with it, and honestly hang with silverstone for the most overpriced case solutions.
some things just hold onto their reputation well. lian li's build quality is as inconsistent, in this case not very, as any other company these days in the very competitive computer hardware market. just like how basically no one makes absolute rubbish cpu coolers these days, no one makes shitty cases anymore.
aluminum is completely overrated considering the price premium you are paying for it. again, the only point of aluminum is if you use your computer for lan parties. otherwise there are completely no benefits over the trusty steel enclosure.
supposedly al is suppose to deal with heat better then steel although i haven't seen anything proving that esp in a full atx case.
Also as a not start from scratch case moder al is much easier to handle then steel.
On May 24 2010 15:12 FragKrag wrote: Poorer Lian Li? Lian Li cases have quite the reputation of being rock solid.
and Aluminum
lian li cases have some of the best designed tool-less systems but that's about it. some designs like the V1000 have the old "aluminum rattle" because they're so light and the build quality isn't totally consistent. these days they really don't do anything better than any other manufacturer beside aluminum, since most companies don't really bother too much with it, and honestly hang with silverstone for the most overpriced case solutions.
some things just hold onto their reputation well. lian li's build quality is as inconsistent, in this case not very, as any other company these days in the very competitive computer hardware market. just like how basically no one makes absolute rubbish cpu coolers these days, no one makes shitty cases anymore.
aluminum is completely overrated considering the price premium you are paying for it. again, the only point of aluminum is if you use your computer for lan parties. otherwise there are completely no benefits over the trusty steel enclosure.
supposedly al is suppose to deal with heat better then steel although i haven't seen anything proving that esp in a full atx case.
Also as a not start from scratch case moder al is much easier to handle then steel.
true, but if you're asking for what case to buy, what parts to buy, what usb3 is, and so forth, I think its safe to say you're not going to be cutting holes in your case with your tin snips or dremel tool, especially in an expensive aluminum case.
aluminum does deal with heat better...like one degree better. as long as you're not ocd about temperatures it doesn't mean anything. the design of the case means so, so much more.
antec 900 is complete shit. i've used one and its surprisingly cramped, wire management is a pain, and with two 120mm intake fans you need to clean it out like a guy with ocd since antec thought it was an awesome idea to not include intake fan filters. there's nothing really "good" about it. the antec 902 is better but still isn't great.
its a waste of cash. if you want a cheap case, get the antec 300 which is like $50 at newegg right now. its not great but its cheap and you get what you pay for.
Most of the time dust filters don't do anything anyways.
Though with a case like the Antec 900 with the two front 120mm intake fans, it would be hard to keep clean. That however, does not detract from it's ability to cool extremely well, and at $60, it is a good buy no matter how you look at it. At $10 more than the Antec 300 (after rebate), I don't see why anybody would even consider the 300 with this kind of deal.
Edit: That said, the 900 is a fairly old case so it doesn't have the cable management holes and CPU cutouts that are common today. At its normal price of around $90-100, there is no reason to buy it, but at $60 it's a steal.
On May 25 2010 15:34 FragKrag wrote: Most of the time dust filters don't do anything anyways.
Though with a case like the Antec 900 with the two front 120mm intake fans, it would be hard to keep clean. That however, does not detract from it's ability to cool extremely well, and at $60, it is a good buy no matter how you look at it. At $10 more than the Antec 300 (after rebate), I don't see why anybody would even consider the 300 with this kind of deal.
dust filters do actually do what they're intended to do: that is to slow the build up of dust within the computer case itself, at the cost of airflow. cases like the haf922 and antec 900 suck in, and hold, a crapload of dust because of the massive negative air pressure but at least if you have the haf922, you can say that everything else about the case is perfect. of course, you can always put pantyhose over the intake fans but that's a pretty ghetto solution.
i missed the $20 rebate. still wouldn't bother with it since its still not a very good case overall. i guess if you're adventurous you can cut a few holes into the case, which works pretty well.
Working on putting together a build for a computer I'm going to build for my brother. There isn't really any requirements other then the fact that the budget is between $500 - $600 and have the ability to do some decient gaming (I'm not talking the latest games in ultra settings at some crazy resolution, but say low~medium settings would be good).
Working on putting together a build for a computer I'm going to build for my brother. There isn't really any requirements other then the fact that the budget is between $500 - $600 and have the ability to do some decient gaming (I'm not talking the latest games in ultra settings at some crazy resolution, but say low~medium settings would be good).
Uh right off the bat, you are not matching the correct CPU with the correct socket. Right now you have a s775 chip and a s1156 motherboard. Change the CPU to a i5 750. Secondly, the s1156 socket uses DDR3, so change your RAM to DDR3 as well.
Don't really know much about that PSU, but the way they display the rails on that is a bit misleading. It's only 384W (32amps) for the 12v...which is a bit low IMO.
*hmm on second thought, it does look like you're going for a budget build. The i3 530 Clarkdale is sitll gonna $128 though. If you're really strapped, consider an AMD build instead, but the IPC of Intel is gonna be better at the moment.
My bad on the motherboard not being compatable, was playing around a build with an i3 and forgot to swap the motherboard when I changed to the e5300.
I am indeed going for a pretty budget build ($500-600), and I know AMD is a lot cheaper though I'd prefer to stick with Intel. That being said, however, is AMD really that much worse then Intel and would it be worth cheaping out and going with AMD?
On May 27 2010 02:17 mav451 wrote: Don't really know much about that PSU, but the way they display the rails on that is a bit misleading. It's only 384W (32amps) for the 12v...which is a bit low IMO.
What would you suggest instead? I don't really have a great knowledge on PSUs, other then the fact that you generally don't want to cheap out on one and (from what I've heard) Antec is a pretty good brand.
Hmm, whats the major difference between 920 and 930? And I plan on adding an additional video card later just so thats why I went for that power supply.
Graham: If you're buying a CPU that is under $120 (ie i3), then AMD is definitely your best bet. At lower prices, Intel CPUs just don't offer the power that AMD does.
DEN1ED: I really don't understand your choices at all.
1. You get a 750W PSU for the HD 5770. Even if you do plan on putting another 5770, the most you could possibly need would be a 650W PSU (even then it's a bit overkill TBH). http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371021 This is a much better PSU for what you plan on doing.
2. Why are you getting X58 in the first place? If you are going to crossfire HD 5770s, you don't need the full X16 bandwidth because the HD 5770 really isn't that powerful. The X8 limitation normally only starts showing up at the level of the HD 5850, which is a much more powerful card.
3. You are getting the i7 920 when the i7 930 is the exact same price. No reason not to get the extra multiplier (133MHz) that the 930 offers.
4. I don't like Foxconn mobos. If you plan on doing overclocking, stay away from them. Go for a solid Gigabyte, the extra $40-50 is totally worth it. That board especially. It only gives you 5 slots, which once you add in two HD 5770s, you will only be able to use that PCI slot in the middle. The board layout is absolutely terrible. It has very limited expansion capabilities.
On May 27 2010 02:35 Graham wrote: My bad on the motherboard not being compatable, was playing around a build with an i3 and forgot to swap the motherboard when I changed to the e5300.
I am indeed going for a pretty budget build ($500-600), and I know AMD is a lot cheaper though I'd prefer to stick with Intel. That being said, however, is AMD really that much worse then Intel and would it be worth cheaping out and going with AMD?
AMD have much better CPU then E5300 Oo. You can try to build something with Phenom II 550 very good CPU for the price.
On May 27 2010 08:42 Polis wrote: AMD have much better CPU then E5300 Oo. You can try to build something with Phenom II 550 very good CPU for the price.
You can save some $ by getting PII 550. I would advice you to find some $ to upgrade 5670>5770 becouse the deference will be huge, you don't need 550W PSU.
COOLER MASTER Elite 330 is also a decent case will save few $ if you must.
You can save some $ by getting PII 550. I would advice you to find some $ to upgrade 5670>5770 becouse the deference will be huge, you don't need 550W PSU.
COOLER MASTER Elite 330 is also a decent case will save few $ if you must.
Yeah just downsized to the PII 550 since it can be bundled with another mobo for a $25 discount. I'm confused as regards to how much power I would need to run the system however, as well as brands which one would suggest. I know theres PSU's for like $20 though I know people always say to put the money into a good quality PSU.
edit: so much feedback, haha. Thanks everyone thus far, going through it all haha.
(You seem to have quite the knowledge of all things computers, haha. If you have a build of your own I'm all ears).
The HDD you listed is a good one for consistently writing and reading, imo not recommended for normal function such as running an os and opening random files.
you have a am3 cpu i'd try to get a ddr3 memory
but i mean i look at shipping
everything is shipping at 10 dollars a pop hell the 20 buck rom-drive is shipping at 10 bucks t-t
i'm sure there are better stores then newegg.ca for canadians, i just can't remember them.
(You seem to have quite the knowledge of all things computers, haha. If you have a build of your own I'm all ears).
The HDD you listed is a good one for consistently writing and reading, imo not recommended for normal function such as running an os and opening random files.
you have a am3 cpu i'd try to get a ddr3 memory
but i mean i look at shipping
everything is shipping at 10 dollars a pop hell the 20 buck rom-drive is shipping at 10 bucks t-t
i'm sure there are better stores then newegg.ca for canadians, i just can't remember them.
To be honest while each part ships for a lot, the entire build combined ships for around $30 which is really good as far as I've seen compared to NCIX and Tigerdirect.
I'm also in Calgary and have access to Memory Express, though their prices up front seem to be higher than online stores.
with psus, the watts doesn't really matter that much if you're doing fairly basic stuff with your pc (not sli/crossfire and/or running 8 hard disks). the only thing that honestly matters the oem manufacturer of the psu and the 12v rails.
the easy way to tell whether or not a psu is to be trusted is to look at the length of the warranty, find the oem of the model on google, look at the 12v rails. a good manufacturer will offer at least 5 years of warranty; if it is less than that, there is something wrong with the psu.
anything seasonic or corsair is good. yes, they are expensive but when you buy their psu, you know that you're getting close to their rated values and will stand the test of time, stay cool, and stay quiet. corsair will offer 7 years, seasonic will offer 5 years.
psu's are where manufacturers will tell white lies the most. to take use an example, the ocz modxstreams 700w will only be able to reliably output 400w of clean power since they're actually the bottom of the barrel fsp models.
On May 27 2010 09:07 FragKrag wrote: It should actually be a higher quality PSU because I'm pretty sure those Green series EarthWatts (500W and under) are actually Sea Sonic OEMs
not anymore, the new earthwatts with the -d suffix, like the psu polis posted, are made by delta now. of course that still doesn't matter since delta is a solid enough.
one thing people should never trust are newegg reviews. people there are silly.
newegg reviewers are funny i see alot of I hate this product comments from people who don't have proof they own it, ie didn't buy from newegg and some of the worst thinkers in the world posting on there, esp dealing with ram, "omfg it wont run at the 1600 without change it in bios 4 eggs"
Ofc there are intelligent post too, but generally if you see a shit ton of reviews saying DOA don't think much up of. DOA products are a small percent of any given product, it's just more likely people who get something DOA is likely to post something about it then a person content with what they got.
+ $20 MIR corsair is pretty good at giving you mail in rebates, some groups like ocz have horrible history of shitty MIR just shitty customer service in general, so 60 bucks for a good 650w psu.
By the way, I didn't read anything other than the OP, but if anyone wants a place that assembles and is pretty good overall I'd recommend NCIX
They have a price match if you're buying parts (it's a manual process though, so you enter the link where you find a better deal than the one they have, can't be limited time offers or mail-in rebates I think, but then someone goes and manually checks the other guy's price and they price match) so could be good if you want to get all your stuff at one place and different places offer better prices on different things (I assume you could at least save on shipping a bit.
So yeah... try that out if you're interested. =] I just got my computer there, $50 for assembly (if you buy an OS they install it and all that stuffs).
Edit: Use the PC Builder (tab at the top), and go on the gaming tab (the individual tab computers provide more options than the ones on the PC Builder front page). They have a few common things you can choose from and then you can click + Advanced Options to choose from all available items of that type on NCIX, there's a search bar of course. I thought it was pretty nice to use though I don't know much about PCs, so I don't know how good of a "fit" the options they give you are. But I think it's a nice place to start (especially if you think you're going to accidentally forget an important component) and I definitely like the fact that they assemble. I've never used newegg but it doesn't look like they do assembly. So you're stuck either picking one of their systems or having to assemble it.
My budget is ~1000 dollars, and I want to know if anything in that list will severely bottleneck my computer. Also, please say any changes you would make or items that you recommend against in the list as well! Basically, I just want your opinion
My budget is ~1000 dollars, and I want to know if anything in that list will severely bottleneck my computer. Also, please say any changes you would make or items that you recommend against in the list as well! Basically, I just want your opinion
Thanks a lot for the help!
You're gonna need an optical drive, an OS, and a non-stock cooler for your cpu, so make sure you budget ~$175 more for all that.
As for what you listed, I personally have no clue as to why people over 12 go for that case. For half the price you can have a Cooler Master case about the same air flow, but without the obnoxious LEDs and window.
xfx is for warranty and customer support. same with evga. if you're card is toast on arrival or something is wrong with it, these two guys will make your life so much easier. if you've had to rma something expensive before, you'll know how awesome a good manufacturer that doesn't force you to jump through hoops is. hell, if your stuff is old enough evga can't be stuffed giving you the old item and gives you something better most of the time.
either way, if you want to overclock your gpu, you want a reference card since non-reference pcbs are normally not as good as it. reference cards are very often simply over engineered and can take more of a beating than non reference pcbs that have stuff taken out to save costs. if you're running on stock settings or won't be playing with large voltages to overclock it doesn't matter which card you set though though.
x58 systems are an absolute waste of cash, why bother with it. lga1156 and lga1366 are dead ends anyway so you're not future proofing anything. unless you're a moron on [H] and need to increase your penis size, don't bother with x58 systems since how much you're paying for it is not worth the price.
+ $20 MIR corsair is pretty good at giving you mail in rebates, some groups like ocz have horrible history of shitty MIR just shitty customer service in general, so 60 bucks for a good 650w psu.
lol, you posted the same psu that's in my link
I dunno why people complain so much about ocz being so bad with their MIR. I've had 5 or so MIR from them in the past 3 months, and yea they take the full 10 weeks, but I've gotten the money without issue every time
On May 28 2010 08:13 Subwoofermate wrote: xfx is for warranty and customer support. same with evga. if you're card is toast on arrival or something is wrong with it, these two guys will make your life so much easier. if you've had to rma something expensive before, you'll know how awesome a good manufacturer that doesn't force you to jump through hoops is. hell, if your stuff is old enough evga can't be stuffed giving you the old item and gives you something better most of the time.
either way, if you want to overclock your gpu, you want a reference card since non-reference pcbs are normally not as good as it. reference cards are very often simply over engineered and can take more of a beating than non reference pcbs that have stuff taken out to save costs. if you're running on stock settings or won't be playing with large voltages to overclock it doesn't matter which card you set though though.
x58 systems are an absolute waste of cash, why bother with it. lga1156 and lga1366 are dead ends anyway so you're not future proofing anything. unless you're a moron on [H] and need to increase your penis size, don't bother with x58 systems since how much you're paying for it is not worth the price.
I realize XFX has its Lifetime warranties, but paying $40 for it seems excessive imo.
Subwoofermate: Sure, reference cards are better than the skimp cards you get from some partners, but with many higher quality partners like EVGA, MSI, ASUS they give you decent platforms to overclock on. MSI HAWK 5770 and the new ASUS DirectCU 5850 are all amazing overclockers which aren't based on the reference design.
On May 28 2010 08:13 Subwoofermate wrote: xfx is for warranty and customer support. same with evga. if you're card is toast on arrival or something is wrong with it, these two guys will make your life so much easier. if you've had to rma something expensive before, you'll know how awesome a good manufacturer that doesn't force you to jump through hoops is. hell, if your stuff is old enough evga can't be stuffed giving you the old item and gives you something better most of the time.
either way, if you want to overclock your gpu, you want a reference card since non-reference pcbs are normally not as good as it. reference cards are very often simply over engineered and can take more of a beating than non reference pcbs that have stuff taken out to save costs. if you're running on stock settings or won't be playing with large voltages to overclock it doesn't matter which card you set though though.
x58 systems are an absolute waste of cash, why bother with it. lga1156 and lga1366 are dead ends anyway so you're not future proofing anything. unless you're a moron on [H] and need to increase your penis size, don't bother with x58 systems since how much you're paying for it is not worth the price.
except xfx is known for eh customer support, while evga is known for great support.
All graphic cards manufactures have at least a 2 year warranty on their parts usually 3 pertaining to manufacture defects etc. Meaning if you did right by your card and it just up and died on you, you can rma it. If you're like me and get a new card every year or two, double lifetime warranty which just means it carries over if you sell the card and that doesn't mean jack, i usually give away my old stuff to friends then get a quick 50 bucks or w.e
As far as your x58 comment, there are two types of overclockers, those who bitch about others spending money for the best and those with the best because to some 2nd place might as well be last.
+ $20 MIR corsair is pretty good at giving you mail in rebates, some groups like ocz have horrible history of shitty MIR just shitty customer service in general, so 60 bucks for a good 650w psu.
lol, you posted the same psu that's in my link
I dunno why people complain so much about ocz being so bad with their MIR. I've had 5 or so MIR from them in the past 3 months, and yea they take the full 10 weeks, but I've gotten the money without issue every time
They ditched 1 MIR out of like the 30 i've done with them, but that's not my real beef with them, it's when i rma shit with them they bitch and moan all the way to the bank to me their customer support will always be shit.
Based on his choice of the GTS 250, I really, really doubt he is an enthusiast, therefore a good LGA 1156 P55 system with an i7 860 + P7P55D-E Pro will do absolutely fine.
Honestly, a 2-3 year warranty should be absolutely fine for a GPU.
On May 28 2010 09:37 FragKrag wrote: Based on his choice of the GTS 250, I really, really doubt he is an enthusiast, therefore a good LGA 1156 P55 system with an i7 860 + P7P55D-E Pro will do absolutely fine.
Honestly, a 2-3 year warranty should be absolutely fine for a GPU.
Hey, if he wants to oc like mad i know plenty of people who skimp on gpu becuase they are overclockers first, then people who play games 2nd. ofc i would doubt it too as he's posting here for help instead of a more suitable forum.
LGA1156+860 is more then enough for most cases, generally for games a 750 is the most you want to do unless you plan on streaming/ recording while your playing as there is no real in game benefit to hyper threading etc if he was for games i'd go 750+5850 and work from that.
So I am looking to build a computer for the first time, and I've been reading this thread, and I got a build that I adapted from Bloom's build linked in the OP.
I just wanted to check with the users in this thread and make sure everything looks all nice and tight. My goal with the computer was to keep it as close to 850$ as possible while still having it be a quality gaming desktop.
Here's my wish list for it
Also, I have an alternative graphics card that is similar to my one listed in the build, but significantly cheaper, and I was not certain if it was less quality or what. + Show Spoiler +
It says my motherboard can only run DDR3 1200(OC)/1066/800, so those sticks wouldn't be an option for me. Are there any motherboards that you would recommend (noob friendly please :p)? I kind of chose the one I have up there because it says that it's crossfire ready and has good reviews but the ram is limiting.
Alright I'll look into the samsung and seagate, thanks! What is the difference between them and Hitachi?
Samsung has the highest sequential write speeds and read speeds, and the Seagate has a good warranty and should be fairly cheap.
When it says the speeds for RAM, that means those are the highest speeds that it will recognize automatically. It doesn't necessarily mean that you won't be able to reach those speeds.
Thanks for the advice Frag! I changed my motherboard to the asus, changed the hd to samsung. I don't really have any knowledge with overclocking and stuff so I think it'd be easier for me to go with speeds that the motherboard will recognize automatically lol. Since this motherboard recognizes 1600, how is this for ram?
The first and third are actually the same modules except with different heatspreaders.
As for choosing the brand, I would generally go with Corsair, but many would also choose GSkill. It comes down to personal preference and/or combo deals you can find.
Alright thanks for the help, really appreciate it I think I'm going to go for the Corsair or A-DATA ram. Seems like people are having BSOD problems with GSkill.
On May 28 2010 15:48 pinenamu wrote: Alright thanks for the help, really appreciate it I think I'm going to go for the Corsair or A-DATA ram. Seems like people are having BSOD problems with GSkill.
I have G.Skill - but you need to be careful using RAM when going between Intel/AMD. There are actual threads on this, where (yes unbelievably) people buy RAM advertised for i5/i7 and then find that the AMD boards are no cooperative. It is hilarious that for the first time, the advertisements are actually spot-on about compatibility.
Corsair is definitely a good choice though, b/c if you have problems you can contact Red/Yellowbeard, depending on what forum you go through. Personal help in RMAs - and ditto on problems with PSUs as well. Corsair's CS in general is really awesome.
On May 28 2010 23:24 3nickma wrote: I've very recently bought and assembled the following computer system as my new gaming rig:
Asus P6X58D Premium Intel Core i7-930 @ 2.8GHz (will try to OC to 4GHz soon) Noctua NH-D14 + U.L.N.A. 12GB Corsair Dominator (CMD12GX3M6A1600C8) 2x Sapphire Vapor-X HD 5850 (CrossFire) Intel X25-M 160GB Corsair HX850W Antec Three Hundred Noctua NF-P14 FLX + U.L.N.A. (140mm Top Fan) 4x Nexus Basic (120mm Case Fans) Asus DRW 24B1LT (LightScribe) Windows 7 Home Premiun (64-bit Danish)
Just received:
Razer DeathAdder Left Hand Edition Razer Goliathus Fragged Control Edition
Awaiting:
Acer GD245HQ (120Hz 3D - Full HD)
how much did all that costs u? O.o
Did you really have to remind me?
18.780 DKK = $3.130 (currency as of 28/5-10) + $500 for the monitor whenever it's released So the Grand Total would be about $3.630.
On May 28 2010 23:44 FragKrag wrote: You better OC it to 4ghz if you bought the D14 :>
Trust me, I will The NH-D14 was bought specifically for this purpose. My plan is to get my new monitor home (can't wait to replace my borrowed 19" 1280x1024), reformat the PC and then overclock it. But right now I'm just so happy I've finally got a computer that can run all my games flawlessly
On May 29 2010 02:56 semantics wrote: Antec Three Hundred Intel X25-M 160GB
I see those two things and become dissapointed very quickly for some reason.
And why is that? It's not like a more flashy chassis gives more FPS in games. I really liked it's sleek and simple design while not being too big. Even on a hot summer day where I was sweating the CPU only got about 5 degrees celsius higher and still below 40.
Also I needed to save just a bit at the point of purchase so I thought a well reviewed and cheap chassis would do the trick as a placeholder. If I'd upgrade my PC on a regular/more frequent basis I'd definitely go for a more roomy chassis! But once assembled I'm quite happy with it
If TRIM was supported in RAID I'd definitely buy 2x Intel X25-M 80GB instead but wouldn't take the chance. And the newer (and unproven!) SandForce drives aren't released yet where I live.
I actually don't need the capacity like many others but just wanted the speed. Will never buy a new PC if it isn't running on an SSD that's for sure! Currently I'm waiting Intel's release of their new SATA 6 X25-M Gen3 drives which will hopefully be RAID-able by that time
Mostly the Antec 300 is a mid tower, and crossfire in a mid tower just seems like i'm too cheap to buy a full tower, just seems like an odd place to skimp when the rest of the rig is so awesome.
The intel SSD you talked about your stance and i get your decision now.
On May 29 2010 05:11 semantics wrote: Mostly the Antec 300 is a mid tower, and crossfire in a mid tower just seems like i'm too cheap to buy a full tower, just seems like an odd place to skimp when the rest of the rig is so awesome.
The intel SSD you talked about your stance and i get your decision now.
Oh sure a very valid point indeed. Initially I was eyeing the Corsair Obsidian 700D/800D but thought that's a lot of money for a chassis. Already felt like my wallet was drained But if you buy a good chassis it can last for years and outlast several core components upgrade. Still I got a very good deal on the Antec Three Hundred so I decided it was worth it especially after reading AnandTech's mini-review. The first paragraph is well worth the read and a surprising comment cought my attention: "Large cases often end up providing inferior airflow since the interior is just too roomy". Can't speak from personal experience about that one but thinking about it for a monent I could see the logic behind it. So I went ahead with my purchase. But next time I'll most likely be getting a bigger chassis for easier upgrading though that shouldn't be a concern for quite some time now.
I don't have any mechanical hard disk drives installed in my new rig and can't remember just how long an HDD is. But I'm almost certain that the setup would NOT have room for any traditional 3.5" HDDs. And with my stance about SSD > HDD with nothing but a single SSD installed in the bottom of the chassis I have plenty of room for the GFX. Maybe if the PCIe power connectors where placed on top of the card and not on it's side there may just have been room for a hard disk. Can upload a picture if you want to see. As of now it's just dual-fan intake with a lot of empty space where the HDDs should've been and then my CrossFire setup.
Also the Antec Three Hundred came with native build-in mounting holes in the bottom to fasten the drive with. Had no idea about that but read in the manual that they continue to slightly improve their products even after initial release so a very pleasent surprise that I got the revised model. Also helped a bit with my decision to go with a single SDD I'd be able to secure right away.
Would it be a noticeable difference if I paid the extra ten or so dollars to get that Samsung F3 1tb or Seagate Barracuda hard drive instead of my current one? My current one is the western digital caviar blue 640. + Show Spoiler +
The WD Caviar should have faster access times. I would actually throw out an extra $5 for the Caviar Black 640GB.
As for the other two, the Caviar Black is superior to the F3 in access times, but inferior in terms of sequential writes/reads. Pretty sure the Caviar Black beats the Barracuda in every possible way though. I also remember that the F3 1TB consume less power (negligible), and run more quietly than the WD Caviar Black.
The most notable difference would be the extra drive space.
On May 29 2010 09:51 semantics wrote: Caviar black FALS doesn't beat a 7200.12 in sequential reads/writes. not sure about the AALS.
You forget that the 7200.12 is a 500gig per platter like the F3's. I believe the 500gig the 1 tb and 2 tb are all 500 gig platters.
But the F3 perform a bit better so i'd go with them sense they are usually the same price per gig as seagate's
What does sequential reads/writes equate to in real-world situations?
Writing large and reading large files, usually loading times in games with large maps, but usually random access time is a bit more important for everyday use like opening a browser or the avg program.
Spinpoint F3's at least the 500gig one has a decent random seek time and great read and writes, something seagates doesn't have, seagate esp teh 1 tb one has bad random seek time, WD black's tend to have the best random seek for a mechanical drive.
Ofc it also matters if you're running ACHI or IDE mode not by much but that's the difference we are measuring for these drives, not by much.
I personally would go with a spinpoint F3, but a WD Black isn't a bad choice either.
hey guys. i'm thinking of building a computer real soon. budget would be around 1k to 1.2k just want to ask around for a decent build and then i can work on from there. Have almost 0 computer knowledge or information about hardwares.(cant oc dunno about voltage and stuff lol)
play current/near future games with at least mid end setting. to multitask a little bit without too much performance drop. For the general purpose, yt, video streaming.
On June 12 2010 11:39 Hyaach wrote: hey guys. i'm thinking of building a computer real soon. budget would be around 1k to 1.2k just want to ask around for a decent build and then i can work on from there. Have almost 0 computer knowledge or information about hardwares.(cant oc dunno about voltage and stuff lol)
play current/near future games with at least mid end setting. to multitask a little bit without too much performance drop. For the general purpose, yt, video streaming.
thanks
You can do almost anything with that budget, even an i7.
With $1.2k though you'd be able to fit in an i7/x58 mobo build pretty easily, especially if you have a local fry's or microcenter. I did a build for my friend and it came out to around that much, great gaming machine and multitasking.
Just build around an i7 930, x58 mobo that is around $200[I'd recommend evga, asus, gigabyte], 650-750 watt power supply[DO NOT SKIMP ON THIS, Antec/Corsair/Seasonic has decent models around that wattage for a reasonable price], and a GPU based on your needs[5770 sounds nice for your, but the ATI 5850 and Nvidia GTX 470 are pretty good buys too, very expensive tough].
Case, Hard Drive capacity, extra fans/cpu cooling, optical drives is really 100% preference depending on how much storage you need, how much you care about cooling/looks, etc.
Last big tip : BUY USED IF YOU CAN! You save SO much money on the same parts that will work 100% fine, just buy from legit sites/people(there are many hardware forums out there). Even newegg has good open box deals, I got my 5970 for $460, which is absolutely insane for a $700 card.
I'm going to be building a computer for the first time ever tomorrow after work. So far I have a 5670 video card, and biostar TA890 GXB, a phenom II x6 1055t, and an antec 500w power supply. I'm gonna pick up the case+hard drive+memory at fry's. The Mobo+processor was on sale for $200 after a $15 rebate or I would have probably gone with an i5 or a 955. Anything I should know about before building? I read through the guide on tomshardware and I've done little things like installing ram/video cards but that's it.
On June 12 2010 11:39 Hyaach wrote: hey guys. i'm thinking of building a computer real soon. budget would be around 1k to 1.2k just want to ask around for a decent build and then i can work on from there. Have almost 0 computer knowledge or information about hardwares.(cant oc dunno about voltage and stuff lol)
play current/near future games with at least mid end setting. to multitask a little bit without too much performance drop. For the general purpose, yt, video streaming.
thanks
You can do almost anything with that budget, even an i7.
With $1.2k though you'd be able to fit in an i7/x58 mobo build pretty easily, especially if you have a local fry's or microcenter. I did a build for my friend and it came out to around that much, great gaming machine and multitasking.
Just build around an i7 930, x58 mobo that is around $200[I'd recommend evga, asus, gigabyte], 650-750 watt power supply[DO NOT SKIMP ON THIS, Antec/Corsair/Seasonic has decent models around that wattage for a reasonable price], and a GPU based on your needs[5770 sounds nice for your, but the ATI 5850 and Nvidia GTX 470 are pretty good buys too, very expensive tough].
Case, Hard Drive capacity, extra fans/cpu cooling, optical drives is really 100% preference depending on how much storage you need, how much you care about cooling/looks, etc.
Last big tip : BUY USED IF YOU CAN! You save SO much money on the same parts that will work 100% fine, just buy from legit sites/people(there are many hardware forums out there). Even newegg has good open box deals, I got my 5970 for $460, which is absolutely insane for a $700 card.
eh if you're only going for 1 gpu get a 550 W psu from a good named brand and never worry about it again. However, if you are going to go for 1 gpu, then you should just go with an i5-750 / i7-860 and LGA 1156 as you won't be utilizing LGA 1366 to the full extent, and instead use that extra money on a shiny new SSD
Frames per $ is only important after the card performs to your expectations, and after evaluation of the card's features. ATI has Eyefinity while Nvidia has CUDA and PhysX. Then you still have to consider the noise level, overclockability, heat output, and maybe power consumption.
I would never buy a used GPU, Mobo if it did not have a warranty tied to it.
80+ means nothing really. Any PSU these days is 80+. I can buy a $30 SHAW PSU that is 80+ Bronze but I know that its a piece of shit and the capacitors will melt because its a SHAW.
To buy a good PSU you buy a Seasonic, Corsair, or certain Antec PSUs (like the CP-850 for the Antec Performance One cases and high end gaming cases). You look at the OEMs (quick google will give you the answer) and basically pick any that is made by Seasonic, Delta, or CWT on the DSG platform.
Of course there are some pretty decent ones out there like some Silverstone PSUs but you will never go wrong with a Seasonic or Corsair. Who cares if they're more expensive than other PSUs, PSUs are something that won't become obsolete in 3 years time; the only time your PSU will become obsolete is when your PSU dies.
On June 12 2010 11:39 Hyaach wrote: hey guys. i'm thinking of building a computer real soon. budget would be around 1k to 1.2k just want to ask around for a decent build and then i can work on from there. Have almost 0 computer knowledge or information about hardwares.(cant oc dunno about voltage and stuff lol)
play current/near future games with at least mid end setting. to multitask a little bit without too much performance drop. For the general purpose, yt, video streaming.
thanks
You can do almost anything with that budget, even an i7.
With $1.2k though you'd be able to fit in an i7/x58 mobo build pretty easily, especially if you have a local fry's or microcenter. I did a build for my friend and it came out to around that much, great gaming machine and multitasking.
Just build around an i7 930, x58 mobo that is around $200[I'd recommend evga, asus, gigabyte], 650-750 watt power supply[DO NOT SKIMP ON THIS, Antec/Corsair/Seasonic has decent models around that wattage for a reasonable price], and a GPU based on your needs[5770 sounds nice for your, but the ATI 5850 and Nvidia GTX 470 are pretty good buys too, very expensive tough]. .
I have no idea what is with computer enthusiasts and their willingness to suggest ridiculously overpowered systems for people to use. This isn't [H]ardocp, this is the real world where most people are not benching their hardware to brag on the internet. No one, unless you are video editing for a living or similar, needs 1366 processors or triple channel memory. No one needs SLI or Crossfire unless you're running obscene resolutions.
The old dual cores are still more than powerful enough for gaming and basic general use, even more so if you get a good CPU cooler and overclock them. Futureproofing is useless because your build is going to be outdated in 3 years time...so the smart idea is to get the most sensibly powerful build, put the cash in the rainy day pile, and buy new stuff in 3 years time.
All you need in terms of hardware: Processor: i5 750 Motherboard: Any Asus or Gigabyte P55 motherboard RAM: 4GB of any sort of RAM (check compatibility with motherboard, Gigabyte boards hate some RAM) Graphics cards: ATI 5750, 5770, 5850, or nVidia 470 if you can get it at around 5850 prices PSU: 550w Corsair or Seasonic PSU Case: Your choice.
If you think this isn't powerful enough for basic use and gaming, god help you because you have really high standards.
I'd also like to add that if you don't need a computer right now, the i5 760 is supposedly coming out Q3 this year. It's really just an i5 750 @ 2.8GHz
On June 12 2010 13:47 FragKrag wrote: ^listen to this man
I'd also like to add that if you don't need a computer right now, the i5 760 is supposedly coming out Q3 this year. It's really just an i5 750 @ 2.8GHz
Well ocers will love it if it's like the 920 ->930 transition, which made a more consistent chip
The 920 and 930's o/c are completely based on batch number. D0 stepping 920's, and a few "golden batches" have matched/outclocked 930's pretty consistently. The 22x multiplier on the 930 does nothing since for some reason the i7's like odd numbered multipliers.
@subwoof, he said he had a 1.2k budget so might as well pull in as much as possible With a lesser budget i5 750 / phenom ii 955's are much better for the money of course. I personally play almost every high end game for the hell of it, fuck my 5970 can't even play metro2033 at max so I'm going to be getting a 5850 to tri-fire it D: Also looking forward to Crysis 2, and whatever is coming after Bad Company 2.
Really the trick to building is just to find good deals. My system probably costs well over $2000 retail but I got most of my stuff really really cheap. When I say buying used, of course I mean products that still have warranties. Most high end GPU's have lifetime warranties anyways as long as the seller is willing to help you out or if you buy from XFX which has a transferable warranty.
There is no point wasting money. If you're a sensible person, you'd save that cash for the rainy day fund so when something fucks up (car breaks down, you break your arm and can't work, etc), you're not financially troubled.
A i5 750 will perform exactly the same as any i7 processor for any typical user so why waste money? A typical user will not be able to use any of the benefits i7 processors provide (hyperthreading, triple channel memory, etc). Only now are dual cores starting to show their age in gaming.
As resolutions increase, the better GPU you need. But because of the large resolution, anti-aliasing can be lowered or completely turned off to increase performance without the game looking like complete ass. A 5850 can run any game more than adequately so long as you lower the anti-aliasing. OK, sure there will be more jagged lines but if you're not real OCD about it, the image quality won't really bother you at all if the resolution is large enough and you're not purposely picking out jaggies.
Any normal person will be fine with this performance. Its already better than any console. As I said before, SLI and Crossfire is only worth it if you're running obscene resolutions (eyefinity configurations, that type of stuff), if not there is no point.
I'll be moving into an apartment in South Korea chungbuk and I was wondering if ordering all the parts online would be viable over buying everything locally? My current PC in my home here in Canada is a stock HP media center from 2005 but using 100$ on eBay I put the fastest processor I it could handle (3.2ghz single core) and 2gbs of Ram, then a low end videocard I paid 40$ for up the street can do tripple monitors and can fraps SC2 at 1920x1080 with everything setto low: see here http://YouTube.com/nickcarefoot
Am I a dumbass for wanting a tower in a place I may only stay a year (I want to pack my new monitors, my g15, g35 and g19 all boxed up like a nerd out of hell.
Should I just build a gaming laptop? (ie. Use clamshell mode and let it be a gaming tower)
or are the PC bangs in Korea so numerous and plentiful I shant not worry about getting my dose of SC2?
I use the word viable a lot now thanks to day9.
Also I typed all of this lying in bed with an iPhone and I'm allegedly an English teacher so hopefully that is still plausible with this unspell checked post.
Yeah PS3's are using Nvidia 7 series chips lmao. The optimization is just insane though, can't believe they can play games like Bad Company 2 smoothly while making it look nice. The next generation of consoles is a pretty scary thought if they get fermis or 6xxx chips in there.
As I said before, if you're playing on a low resolution, video cards don't have to work very hard. As mentioned above, consoles just run the game at a low resolution, use a few tricks like bloom and blur, upscale the image, and there you have it: you have a game that looks pretty good.
Of course they're running games at only 30fps but that's generally more than enough for enjoyable use.
thanks for the answers guys. is there any forum/website which explains CPU GPU mobo and stuff? lol but i think i'll go with a i5 since i would really not be able to utilise a i7 fully
http://www.tomshardware.com/ is pretty good for learning some basic stuff. They go pretty in depth and assume that you don't have a lot of knowledge. If fact they often compare the different CPUs and graphics cards to help people make the "best" gaming systems and they're pretty often on the mark.
Generally you learn this stuff by playing around with hardware. After building your first computer, most things just end up "making sense" if that means anything.
I would go with AnandTech for a lot of reviews and knowledge (especially the articles by Anand himself). He generally explains the concepts very well and is concise in his writing. Something I at least appreciate.
Hardwaresecrets is another great place to get reviews on different products. It is probably the one site that I can trust the reviewer on (I can't even do this with AnandTech a lot of the time).
Generally that TomsHardware article series (I'm only talking about the balanced system) is a decent resource, but remember that since it is meant to be a general article, it won't cover all of the specifics and details that more specialized reviews will.
Really the only difference between i5 quads and i7 quads are the lack of hyperthreading, the lack of the 2:12 DRAM multiplier. I think it's generally better to separate Intel Nehalem quads by the family and and then the 'number'.
i7 9xx or the Bloomfields have everything the i7 is supposed to have i7 8xx or the Lynnfield is essentially an i5 with better Turboboost, hyperthreading, and I think the 2:12 RAM multiplier i5 7xx also Lynnfield, is what people generally associate with the i5.
-ASUS M4A78T-E AM3 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard -ASUS 24x DVD Writer SATA Model DRW-24B1LT/BLK/B/AS LightScribe Support - OEM $121.98 after $10 MIR
-CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible with Core i7 Power Supply -SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive $129.98 after $10 MIR
-OCZ AMD Black Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model OCZ3BE1600C8LV4GK -AMD Phenom II X2 555 Black Edition Callisto 3.2GHz Socket AM3 80W Dual-Core Desktop Processor - C3 Revision Model HDZ555WFGMBOX $171.99 after $20 MIR
Subtotal: $463.95 Tax: $38.28 Shipping: $10.45 Grand Total: $512.68
I've never built a PC before, but I've been reading into it quite a bit lately. I currently run an Dell Inspiron e1505 laptop. I'm looking for casual gaming, general use, and torrenting.
I need help in picking GPU (ATI ~$120), Case, Cooling, Keyboard, Monitor (20"-23" ~$130), Speakers, and any other extra cables(? I don't know.)
I'm looking to keep the total package under $900.
Reason for AMD Phenom II x2 instead Core i3 is there's a possibility I can unlock another 2 cores to make it a quad core for $99. If not I'm perfectly content with a $99 Dual Core.
Is the Mobo sufficient (or even compatible with all the parts >_>)? I don't plan on upgrading this for a long time if not at all.
If you want to unlock your CPU, it wouldn't be a bad idea to purchase a new ASUS 890GX board because it comes with the 'Core Unlock' button which automatically unlocks your CPU cores for you. It is completely optional though. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.416794
It does however come at a $20 premium after the combo deal, however you'll realize that there really aren't many GPUs at $120 which are really worth much. The best GPU you'll end up getting in the ~$90-120 range is the Nvidia GTS 250. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127495 This MSI GTS 250 is $90 after a $30 MIR.
On June 12 2010 23:41 Thrill wrote: Just buy something there and bring an english OS imo.
You do not recommend building from Korean parts? Just a cost effective pre-built? I have some OS's already Ubuntu/Win7. Do they sell computers without an OS?
You would probably have to do a clean install by either wiping the HDD or using an "upgrade" cd in English.
I'm not even sure if Korea sells individual parts at reasonable prices, but don't quote me on that. I'm Korean as well, and every computer I see in Korea(from pc bangs, random apartments, family and their friends, etc is pre-built and pretty crappy.
I'd say your best bet is still buying pre built and reinstalling the OS, or buy small parts from other countries for as cheap as possible(and from the same site/person so that shipping is cheaper) and just find yourself a case in Korea(this is the only thing that costs alot to ship).
I'm looking to build a fairly but not excessively powerful gaming / general use PC. I wanted to post the build here to make sure there weren't any glaring inconsistencies in the parts before I went ahead with the order.
Hi, I'm back with another question. Well, I crossfired two 4850's and tested some games that I had. The fps of the games either stayed the same, isn't stable, or decreased compared to playing with one card. One game that I have, Need For Speed Prostreet, became unplayable in crossfire, getting like 12 fps when it runs at 90 or so with one card. I'm confused on what is causing this. Googling hasn't helped me much, a lot of the advice there is from 2008 advising people to download some other version of the driver. I have a 650 W Corsair, Asus M4A79XTD EVO, Adata 2x2GB 1600, and Athlon II 435 Rana. Could any of these be bottlenecking the crossfire or something? Thanks TL!
edit: oh I have XP if that helps figuring things out :x
On June 17 2010 16:47 pinenamu wrote: Hi, I'm back with another question. Well, I crossfired two 4850's and tested some games that I had. The fps of the games either stayed the same, isn't stable, or decreased compared to playing with one card. One game that I have, Need For Speed Prostreet, became unplayable in crossfire, getting like 12 fps when it runs at 90 or so with one card. I'm confused on what is causing this. Googling hasn't helped me much, a lot of the advice there is from 2008 advising people to download some other version of the driver. I have a 650 W Corsair, Asus M4A79XTD EVO, Adata 2x2GB 1600, and Athlon II 435 Rana. Could any of these be bottlenecking the crossfire or something? Thanks TL!
Would that be a big factor of why it is doing that? The CD came with ATI CCC 10.4 and the most recent version is 10.6. I suppose it doesn't hurt to try though, I'll try it tomorrow.
hey everybody, I'm looking into building my first PC. I got a build, but I want to double check with you guys to see if you guys can make any recommendations or point out any problems.
AMD Athlon II X4 630 Propus 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Model ADX630WFGIBOX
ASUS M4A79XTD EVO AM3 AMD 790X ATX AMD Motherboard
XFX HD-577X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 1GB 128-bit DDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
Antec Three Hundred Illusion Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler
Antec EarthWatts EA650 650W Continuous Power ATX12V Ver.2.2 / EPS12V version 2.91 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL
SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive
ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM
Lied: Looks like a decent build to me. You may want to pick up a Hyper 212+ from Microcenter though. Their online store stocks them, and the Hyper 212 generally performs better than the Freezer Pro 7.
Varn: I don't see a cpu in your build , but it looks solid to me. Nothing comes out as 'bad'. I've read a Jonnyguru review on that EarthWatts power supply and his conclusion was that it is just an average supply. Not awesome, but not bad.
On June 18 2010 05:15 FragKrag wrote:Varn: I don't see a cpu in your build , but it looks solid to me. Nothing comes out as 'bad'. I've read a Jonnyguru review on that EarthWatts power supply and his conclusion was that it is just an average supply. Not awesome, but not bad.
Haha, looks like you're right. I'm getting the i5 750. I don't think I can really make a terrible choice with regards to the cpu though.
I already ended up ordering everything since I thought this topic might be dead, but it's good to know I didn't make any terrible choices! Thanks for the input.
To put it in somewhat of a perspective: I just put together my system with the Scythe Mugen and it's definitely big. I used an Antec 902 case and the end of the top of the side case bracket sits on the third row of fins on the heatsink. I had no desire to use a side fan, but I really couldn't if I wanted to. Still trying to decide whether I'm okay with that overlap or if I want to remove the bracket and leave that part of the case semi-open (it's a honeycomb opening in the window).
The Mugen should fit just fine in the HAF 922, though, since, at least according to Newegg's specifications, the HAF 922 is almost an inch and a half wider than the 902. The Mugen keeps my i5-750, overclocked to 3.0 Ghz with Turbo Boost enabled at temps of 30C at idle and 54C at load in a 77F room, with the case fans at medium.
On June 18 2010 05:15 FragKrag wrote: Lied: Looks like a decent build to me. You may want to pick up a Hyper 212+ from Microcenter though. Their online store stocks them, and the Hyper 212 generally performs better than the Freezer Pro 7.
Varn: I don't see a cpu in your build , but it looks solid to me. Nothing comes out as 'bad'. I've read a Jonnyguru review on that EarthWatts power supply and his conclusion was that it is just an average supply. Not awesome, but not bad.
supply and demand is a bitch. They always raise prices like mad after it sells out. Like they had a $25 promotion for it, and then when it sold out and they got another shipment it went up to $35
Just picked up a G.Skill Falcon 2 64GB. Need to get an extra Cage though or can I just plug it in. SSD don't vibrate like hard drives so I should be fine right?
Just picked up a G.Skill Falcon 2 64GB. Need to get an extra Cage though or can I just plug it in. SSD don't vibrate like hard drives so I should be fine right?
haha yeah i know a few guys who just lay it at the bottom on their computer it's not like they move their computer and ssd's have no moving parts so it's cool.
GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128423)
Western Digital VelociRaptor WD1500HLFS 150GB 10000 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136296)
G.SKILL PIS Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2200 (PC3 17600) Desktop Memory Model F3-17600CL7D-4GBPIS (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231322)
Thermaltake W0319RU 850W ATX 12V 2.2 SLI Ready CrossFire Certified 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply GeForce GTX 470 Certified (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153106)
Thermaltake Element T VK90001N2Z Black SECC/Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133087)
GIGABYTE GV-N470D5-13I-B GeForce GTX 470 (Fermi) 1280MB 320-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125320)
Don't like the Velociraptor. Not enough improvement over a regular 3.5'' hdd to pay extra for it imho. Better off with a 60GB or so SSD that will perform much better.
Not sure why you went with dual channel RAM when you got an X58 board, but whatever.
I have been having the damndest time figuring out what UPS to get. Right now I've got a average setup with an amd 6400+/ati 5850 and 600watt Antec, but I'll probably upgrade to a high i5 or low i7 setup (or something in that range) by the end of summer.
I've been reading various articles about UPSes, but nothing really helps me get my head around them. Tips?
I assume he's referring to an uninterruptible power source. The only thing I know about those, however, is the information from this Anandtech forum thread.
Just picked up a G.Skill Falcon 2 64GB. Need to get an extra Cage though or can I just plug it in. SSD don't vibrate like hard drives so I should be fine right?
I used masking tape to strap my ssd down Some people use double sided tape
On June 24 2010 11:28 Craton wrote: I have been having the damndest time figuring out what UPS to get. Right now I've got a average setup with an amd 6400+/ati 5850 and 600watt Antec, but I'll probably upgrade to a high i5 or low i7 setup (or something in that range) by the end of summer.
I've been reading various articles about UPSes, but nothing really helps me get my head around them. Tips?
APC CS series 750VA or 1000VA if you want longer up time after power is gone. You need to get cable adapters though for the outlets. ES series if you just want something to plug in like a power board.
On June 24 2010 11:43 FragKrag wrote: do you mean PSU?
No, Uninterruptable Power Supply
APC CS series 750VA or 1000VA if you want longer up time after power is gone. You need to get cable adapters though for the outlets. ES series if you just want something to plug in like a power board.
APC CS series 750VA or 1000VA if you want longer up time after power is gone. You need to get cable adapters though for the outlets. ES series if you just want something to plug in like a power board.
Don't even know what half of that means :|
APC is a company that makes UPS devices. The CS series are business class models, while the ES series are home computer class models.
A VA is a volt-ampere (i.e. it's a volt multiplied by an ampere), which is a type of power measurement. In an AC power system, if the voltage and current are not in phase, then the product of the voltage amount and current amount will not equal the Watts drawn. The volt*current product multiplied by something called the power factor (something in the range of 0 to 1) is the Watts drawn. The power factor is just the cosine of the phase difference between the voltage and current.
UPS's are rated for a certain amount of Watts and also volt-amperes. It's not supposed to exceed either value. e.g. a unit might be rated for 450 Watts and 700 VA.
The power factor of a load depends on what type of device it is. In your case, your computer's power supply is drawing power from the APC. Most reasonably high-end power supplies do active power factor correction, meaning that they adjust themselves in an attempt to keep the voltage and current in phase, to get a power factor close to 1. I think 0.98-0.99 or so is typical? In this case, the Watts drawn is just about 1-2% less than the volt-amperes drawn.
Unless my thinking is wrong, you should be concerned more with the Watts rating rather than the VA rating because the max Watts spec rather than the VA spec will be the limiting factor. Find a UPS with a higher Watts spec than what your systemPSU draws.* Keep in mind that your PSU is probably overkill, and a single processor+single GPU system like yours does not need close to 600W even while you're playing a game.
whoa important *edit2: and note that how much power your PSU draws is how much it delivers divided by the efficiency--about 0.80 and up for 80 plus PSUs ofc? So that's a somewhat higher figure than how much power your computer components use.
edit: how long the battery backup can power your stuff depends on how much power you're drawing of course. Figure out how long you need and at what power draw. Personally I can vouch for even the cheaper UPS models by APC, as I get power surges every couple months and occasional blackouts where I live.
depends on the cpu. 38-45 is nothing for an older cpu haha. i remember my old 6000+ used to idle at like 54c like my old pentium 4's lol idle at 50c load at 70c.
To note though my i5-750 idles at +28c and my E8400 idles at +32c ofc i keep my room cold and use a big air cooler which helps.
So I'm pretty computer-build illiterate... I currently have a Dell Dimension 5150 from 2006. It BARELY runs StarCraft II on the lowest of low settings, but it takes about 45 seconds to load a game, and I almost always have about 4-5 seconds at the very start of the game where my computer is completely unresponsive, so I get 4-5 seconds behind in the economy right off the bat.
I'm planning on building a desktop rather than buying a pre-assembled one, since I'm somewhat tight on money. My budget for this is probably between $650 and $750 (American). I already have a keyboard, mouse, speakers and a monitor. All of the parts from my Dimension are too crappy to re-use in a new build.
The things I want to be able to do:
-Play SC2 on high, smoothly... And also be able to run some more graphically intensive games on respectable (not super low) settings. I don't want/need a supercomputer, just something that will let me play a game like Modern Warfare 2 (just an example) without it looking or performing like crap. I don't need to play Crysis on maxed out settings. As I said, I'm build illiterate, so I really don't know what performance levels correspond with certain price ranges.
-Watch 720p videos. On my current computer, videos with 60 fps at 720p lag and skip like crazy. I'm an avid hockey fan as well as a boxing and MMA fan, and a lot of the games that are released on torrent sites are 720p with 60 fps, and I simply can't watch them.
-Avoid static noise when plugged into the headphone jack. My current computer has a headphone jack in the front, but apparently it is "unshielded" (no idea...) so there is a lot of static noise coming through the headphones.
-Have at least 640 GB.
Are my price range and performance expectation in line with one another?
On July 01 2010 07:58 haduken wrote: $810 ($1,070) Best Bang-For-Buck Gaming Config
CPU: AMD AM3 Phenom II X4 955BE $180 Mobo: Asus M4A87TD-USB3 $114 RAM: G.Skill-NT 4GB DDR3-1333 $129 HDD: Samsung Spinpoint F3 500GB $59 GPU: 1GB ATI Radeon HD5770 $170 Case: Antec 300 $66 PSU: Antec Neo Eco 450C $64 (BYO power cord) ODD: DVD burner $26
^ This build is $810 Australian dollars which is like $750ish USD so that give you some room to move. Add another $40 for a 1TB Harddrive.
Thanks a lot! That was a really good starting point for me - I looked around Newegg to see if I could get any better values or higher rated items, and came up with this:
The Hawk version is overclocked, with better cooling while the Sapphire version is closer to ATI's stock specifications. If the price isn't prohibitive to you, then the Hawk should provide you with (slightly to noticeably, depending on game) better performance, but if the price is prohibitive, you can rest easy with the Sapphire. The increase shouldn't be that big in most situations.
Make sure you have a power cord, as that PSU doesn't come with one.
That sapphire card has a less potent cooler so it won't overclock as well. If you aren't planning to overclock your card, then you should go with that cheaper sapphire. Spending $20-30 extra on cooling you don't need is a bit of a waste that can go elsewhere.
The stock overclock will get you nothing really. 25MHz is normally unnoticeable (maybe 1 or 2 frames?)
If he's gonna get a Caviar Black, and he plans to buy right away, he should go with the 1TB 3Gb/s model that was a shell shocker this morning. It's the same price as the Spinpoint F3 1TB right now. link
Seasonic 520W is a good model, too. I have the modular version and it's pretty awesome.
Edit at FragKrag, below: wow, yeah, definitely. Modular Seasonic for <$85 is easy to pull the trigger on. In contrast to the first review there (I think the problem is on his end, btw), that PSU is working well for me. Also, there's only one 12V rail, despite it listing two.
On July 02 2010 09:47 maareek wrote: If he's gonna get a Caviar Black, and he plans to buy right away, he should go with the 1TB 3Gb/s model that was a shell shocker this morning. It's the same price as the Spinpoint F3 1TB right now. link
Seasonic 520W is a good model, too. I have the modular version and it's pretty awesome.
Err, didn't see the 1TB on New Egg. Yeah for that price I would go for the WD Black. Samsung F3 have better sequential speed but WD have better access speed.
Yeah, I wouldn't have noticed it either if I was dogging Newegg constantly looking for a big 5770 deal. At that price, I agree the 1TB Caviar Black is probably the better choice for somebody not looking to add an SSD later.
Sweet, I swapped out the Antec for this. I wasn't sure what "modular" meant but I googled it and saw a picture - I'm definitely getting a modular one after seeing that. The fewer wires I have to fiddle around with, the better.
I'm kind of split regarding the Hawk vs. the Sapphire 5770. I feel like I might try to overclock sometime down the line (if it doesn't shorten the lifespan of the unit) but I'm not sure if I want to spend an extra 20 bucks on it. Would the Sapphire be able to handle minor overclocking, or should I go for the Hawk if I plan to do ANY at all?
I assume I can remove the DVD/RW drives from my current computer and use them in the new one. At some point I'd like to get a dual layer burner since I have a modded 360, but that will come later on.
So with the Sapphire (and the SeaSonic PSU) added, the total comes to $738, plus 10 for shipping.
I won't be purchasing yet, probably not for another week or so... But I'm glad I have a build in front of me.
You'll probably have to pay significantly more for those parts next week than you will this week, as right now newegg is having sales on a good portion of their products (edit: "significantly" is probably overstating it, but probably an extra $30+ for the parts listed). Just letting you know. Not trying to tell you to buy now, just want you to know what to expect.
Also, I didn't see you mention an OS anywhere. Since you say you're not too knowledgeable and want to game quite a bit, I assume you'll want Windows (7), which will tack on another ~$95. Unless you have a copy or plan to go another route. Just want to be sure that hasn't slipped your mind.
Lastly, your old optical drive probably uses an IDE connector. You should be able to reuse it, but make sure you read up on connecting them properly.
I posted my story originally in this thread: http://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=71476, but I've moved on since then and decided to buy a completely new laptop that isn't a tablet. Here is kind of what I'm looking for:
- i5 or i7 Processor - 4GB of ram (at least) - Dedicated Graphics (Good enough to play some recent games at medium settings...*cough* Starcraft II) - ~15.6" or lower screen size - 500GB 7200RPM or higher HD - 3+ year warranty that includes accident coverage
Budget: UNDER $1300
Not sure if this is the correct thread for this but I couldn't find a laptop specific one with a bit of searching. Anyway...who makes the best laptops these days? I customized a few Dell's (like Studio 15's) and they came out around $1.1k, but I've heard that Dell's "Home" customer service is shit and I would like a graphics card a bit better than a ATI Radeon HD 5470 1GB if possible.
Can anyone recommend a particular brand with excellent customer support that is in my budget? These are the laptops that are available for purchase directly through the school. VT School Bookstore Some appear to be a decent deal, but I'm not really familiar with the latest gen of graphics cards. The only real advantage to buying it through the school is that they have warranty support on-hand...I'm not incredibly worried about not having that. So yeah.
dells can work out if you can get one of their coupons my friend got 30% off his purchase from dell which made a not worth it laptop worth it. http://www.notebookreview.com/dellCoupon.asp
On July 02 2010 12:44 maareek wrote: You'll probably have to pay significantly more for those parts next week than you will this week, as right now newegg is having sales on a good portion of their products (edit: "significantly" is probably overstating it, but probably an extra $30+ for the parts listed). Just letting you know. Not trying to tell you to buy now, just want you to know what to expect.
Also, I didn't see you mention an OS anywhere. Since you say you're not too knowledgeable and want to game quite a bit, I assume you'll want Windows (7), which will tack on another ~$95. Unless you have a copy or plan to go another route. Just want to be sure that hasn't slipped your mind.
Lastly, your old optical drive probably uses an IDE connector. You should be able to reuse it, but make sure you read up on connecting them properly.
Yeah, I'll be getting Windows 7. Wish it wasn't so expensive, but whatever. I'm not going to go the Linux route. Thanks for the heads up about the sale prices.
On July 01 2010 07:04 yakitate304 wrote: apparently it is "unshielded" (no idea...) so there is a lot of static noise coming through the headphones.
Mmm, I don't think it's uncommon for cabling to be unshielded. You've got a bunch of wires inside the protective rubber casing (the rubber being what people generally think of as the wire), and shielding is a lining between the interior cables and the rubber casing, which helps to block out electrical/radio/etc. interference.
How often should I replace my PSU? I've had my helluva trusty FSP 450w for a good two years or so and it's still running strong. I'm just worried that it'll die soon and take out the rest of my parts with it...
I ordered my computer a few hours ago. Thanks for all the help and suggestions, everyone.
I replaced the RAM I had listed on my previous post, because someone on a hockey forum that I post on told me that I should get the "PC3 12800" rather than the 10666... Same price, so I figured I might as well even though I have no idea what it does.
At one point in the not so distant past, the memory controller on AMD CPUs would have problem getting to the 1600MHz speed so I normally don't recommend that speed. They probably fixed it by now though. As far as performance goes, you will see absolutely 0 difference unless you are stressing your memory to 100%.
Good Stuff. Yeah, 1600 RAM is a waste of money if you don't over clock or some fancy shit with your computer. But if it's the same money what the hell.
AMD stock HSF come with thermal paste already on the heatsink but it's hard sealed, which means once you secure the socket, it's a pain in the ass to change the HSF but whatever.
yeah make sure you're careful when you take the HSF off of your AMD CPU. There are countless stories of how the CPU comes off with the HSF and pins get bent and shit.
So apparently the stock heatsink that comes with the 955 is good, but the fan is super loud. There are hundreds of Newegg reviews saying that it's like a jet engine, and even audible over headphones. This isn't a deal breaker or anything, but I'd prefer to not have this noise issue.
Would I be able to simply buy a different fan and remove/replace the one that comes on the heatsink? Or do I have to buy a full heatsink?
It seems like the more I look into the details of the components, the less secure I am about the build.
I didn't notice the fan noise when I installed my 1055T. However I wasn't really using it at that time.
You can replace the fan by itself if you want to, but there is not much point to it because the idea is that a better designed heat sink facilitate more intelligent airflow and heat spread and thus do not require a high speed fan.
A slower spinning fan = less noise.
^ the stock fan.
These days, most after market HSF come with fan + heat sink with mounting brackets for different socket types. Just make sure you get one that come with the AM3 socket (which 99% on the market do).
Scythe Yasya
I like this one. I personally have a Coolermaster V8 and it has served me well but internet prefer better ones.
Or you can get the same one that FragKrag got. It's a bit more expensive though. But it's a water cooling system and the fan is mounted on the chasis fan so noise should be minimal. FragKrag would probably have more input on this.
Should there be much difference between buying from reputable internet sites and reputable computerware stores in terms of price (shipping included), availability, returns, and support?
Last time I got my computer I ordered mostly from newegg but after I moved a got fry's and microcenter really close.
Alright, I'm just going to buy a full heatsink with a 110-120 mm fan. Better to buy it now rather than having to buy it a month from now when I'm fed up with the stock heatsink.
Haduken, thanks for those recommendations.
I might go with the popular buy on Newegg - the Zalman 9700... But I'm looking at this HardwareSecrets page and checking out some of the coolers that they gave awards to.
Just because its watercooled doesn't mean its quiet. Very often a properly done air cooled system with the right fans will be quieter than a watercooled system because not only do you need fans to cool your radiators, you've got pumps running. The Corsair H50 is fairly quiet but it still has a pump and thus still won't be as quiet as a properly set up tower cooler. I cannot see why you would buy a H50 unless space inside your case (mATX, mITX) is really an issue.
Seriously, if you've got a fairly good case and RAM with normal headspreaders, there is like no reason to get a H50 over something like a Noctua D14 or some Thermalright/Cogage tower heatsink since you're already spending a large amount.
Companies don't really release bad heatsinks anymore. They might be mediocre but they're not downright awful. If you're looking for a silent heatsink, what actually matters is the fans you choose to use and how many you're going to use. Something like a Scythe Big Shuriken is great for good cooling and very low noise (and like $40 on Newegg).
Actually I can never hear the pump on my H50. There was the occasional air bubble when I first set it up, but now even that is gone.
I mainly got it because it is fairly silent, it isn't too heavy (I am going to be moving my computer around a lot), it performs well, and because it is simple to set up.
On July 05 2010 12:21 Subwoofermate wrote: Just because its watercooled doesn't mean its quiet. Very often a properly done air cooled system with the right fans will be quieter than a watercooled system because not only do you need fans to cool your radiators, you've got pumps running. The Corsair H50 is fairly quiet but it still has a pump and thus still won't be as quiet as a properly set up tower cooler. I cannot see why you would buy a H50 unless space inside your case (mATX, mITX) is really an issue.
Seriously, if you've got a fairly good case and RAM with normal headspreaders, there is like no reason to get a H50 over something like a Noctua D14 or some Thermalright/Cogage tower heatsink since you're already spending a large amount.
Companies don't really release bad heatsinks anymore. They might be mediocre but they're not downright awful. If you're looking for a silent heatsink, what actually matters is the fans you choose to use and how many you're going to use. Something like a Scythe Big Shuriken is great for good cooling and very low noise (and like $40 on Newegg).
I was going to get the Big Shuriken, but it's actually too big because of the little heat spreading teeth that are at the top of the G.Skill Ripjaws RAM that I bought.
35-40 dollars (like the Big Shuriken) is the pricepoint I was hoping to hit though. I just have to find something with the 120mm fans that gives me a little space where the RAM sits.
I'm basically going through this chart and looking at which ones have a good combination of cooling and quiet operation, then trying to determine if it would fit over the Ripjaws... via google.
This is my current dream build. I am hesitating on building it since my pc still can run every game out there and I might want to buy a console to play console only titles.
Since I haven't decided on one yet, the rest of my build is going to arrive before I have my hands on whatever heatsink I choose. I'm thinking that (despite the urge to go ahead and build, especially now that the beta is back online) I should probably hold off until I get the heatsink as well, since someone mentioned that removing the heatsink was a bit of a hassle and a risk of damaging the chip.
Also, I am thinking about the Gelid Tranquillo. It has gotten really good reviews for its cooling as well as having a very quiet stock fan, and it's only 40 bucks (which is about what I was looking to spend). The only issue is that with AMD boards, it can only be installed vertically. A Newegg review mentioned it as a con, and it was also mentioned in this HardwareCanucks review (pics in the link). Will this seriously detract from the cooling? I figure it will be a little less effective (since people consider it a negative) but I'm hoping that it will still be a pretty decent cooler with a quiet fan that I don't have to replace. If it's only going to make a difference of a few degrees, I'm fine with that and will definitely buy it since even those adjusted temperatures hold up pretty well given the noise level and the price point.
On July 05 2010 14:18 chesshaha wrote: This is my current dream build. I am hesitating on building it since my pc still can run every game out there and I might want to buy a console to play console only titles.
On July 06 2010 07:20 yakitate304 wrote: Regarding the heatsink "issue" I'm having...
Since I haven't decided on one yet, the rest of my build is going to arrive before I have my hands on whatever heatsink I choose. I'm thinking that (despite the urge to go ahead and build, especially now that the beta is back online) I should probably hold off until I get the heatsink as well, since someone mentioned that removing the heatsink was a bit of a hassle and a risk of damaging the chip.
Also, I am thinking about the Gelid Tranquillo. It has gotten really good reviews for its cooling as well as having a very quiet stock fan, and it's only 40 bucks (which is about what I was looking to spend). The only issue is that with AMD boards, it can only be installed vertically. A Newegg review mentioned it as a con, and it was also mentioned in this HardwareCanucks review (pics in the link). Will this seriously detract from the cooling? I figure it will be a little less effective (since people consider it a negative) but I'm hoping that it will still be a pretty decent cooler with a quiet fan that I don't have to replace. If it's only going to make a difference of a few degrees, I'm fine with that and will definitely buy it since even those adjusted temperatures hold up pretty well given the noise level and the price point.
It shouldn't really affect the cooling capacity. Either way you'll get airflow towards an exhaust fan. Either the top or the back fan.
On July 06 2010 07:20 yakitate304 wrote: Regarding the heatsink "issue" I'm having...
Since I haven't decided on one yet, the rest of my build is going to arrive before I have my hands on whatever heatsink I choose. I'm thinking that (despite the urge to go ahead and build, especially now that the beta is back online) I should probably hold off until I get the heatsink as well, since someone mentioned that removing the heatsink was a bit of a hassle and a risk of damaging the chip.
Also, I am thinking about the Gelid Tranquillo. It has gotten really good reviews for its cooling as well as having a very quiet stock fan, and it's only 40 bucks (which is about what I was looking to spend). The only issue is that with AMD boards, it can only be installed vertically. A Newegg review mentioned it as a con, and it was also mentioned in this HardwareCanucks review (pics in the link). Will this seriously detract from the cooling? I figure it will be a little less effective (since people consider it a negative) but I'm hoping that it will still be a pretty decent cooler with a quiet fan that I don't have to replace. If it's only going to make a difference of a few degrees, I'm fine with that and will definitely buy it since even those adjusted temperatures hold up pretty well given the noise level and the price point.
It shouldn't really affect the cooling capacity. Either way you'll get airflow towards an exhaust fan. Either the top or the back fan.
Built a decent rig for just over $1000 CAD about two months ago.
Core i5 750 (2.66GHz - clocked to 3.00GHz without a sweat) Gigabyte P55A-UD3 mobo 4 (2x2)GB G.Skill 1600 RAM CrossFire-ready TX-650W Corsair PSU (I thought you'd see it my way!) Radeon HD 5770 (PowerColor)
Runs like a dream - plenty fast, games at 1920x1200 like butter. Had to jack the bclk to 166mhz to get the ram running at full speed and eased off the multiplier to settle the cpu into 3GHz, but all runs solid and surprisingly cool - stock cpu and gpu coolers and four 120mm case fans, temps on cpu and gpu idle around 45C on a hot day. The 5770 has lots of room to boost as well and is running comfortably over stock at 900/1325 vs 850/1200. Tons of power for a cheap cheap bargain price.
On July 05 2010 14:18 chesshaha wrote: This is my current dream build. I am hesitating on building it since my pc still can run every game out there and I might want to buy a console to play console only titles.
I'm confused by it, it says "Low Voltage" then goes with Voltage:1.65V for it's timings which aren't that impressive.
"Low Voltage" just means it runs 1.65V or lower for its rated speed. Contrast with oldschool RAM which used to run at 3.3V or even (gads!) 5V in the "old" days.
I'm confused by it, it says "Low Voltage" then goes with Voltage:1.65V for it's timings which aren't that impressive.
"Low Voltage" just means it runs 1.65V or lower for its rated speed. Contrast with oldschool RAM which used to run at 3.3V or even (gads!) 5V in the "old" days.
1.65 is not low voltage for ddr3 though so i'm not impressed.
Also ddr3 main reason why it runs lower is better manufacture processes. ie we aren't using 130nm or what not for making ram.
On July 06 2010 14:18 semantics wrote: 1.65 is not low voltage for ddr3 though so i'm not impressed.
No, but the term "Low Voltage" is a term which means "suitable for use with new Intel specs which require RAM to operate at or below 1.65V, even though DDR3 'standard' spec is 1.5 but previously worked at or above 1.8v". It's to contrast it with the older 1.8V standard for DDR2 and older overspec DDR3 designed to work with Core2 systems.. It's not a sales term, it's a technical term.
It comes from the fact that, in generations past, high performance RAM was tuned to maximize performance at voltages significantly higher than JEDEC specs. DDR2 was spec'd to 1.8V, but a lot of performance ram wouldn't meet its specs until you cranked it up to 2.1V or higher. With DDR3 at 1.5V, but Intel spec throwing hard limits at 1.65V, the term "Low Voltage" arose to describe RAM which was suitable for these "low voltage" systems. Running at 1.65V is as overspec as you can get in a low voltage system... if that makes any sense.
You can get DDR3 ram, for example, which is performance ram, but which is designed to run at 1.8V instead of 1.5V. This is fine in the older Core2 CPUs, but if you've got an i5 or an i7 then you CANNOT use this ram at its rated overspec voltage without damaging your system - even though it's proper DDR3 and it's spec'd to run at 1.8 the i5/i7 systems cannot use it, at least not without tuning down the voltage to 1.65V and, by consequence, having to run it at sub-optimal performance settings. Thus - "Low Voltage" RAM -> RAM which is specifically designed to run at peak performance within the bounds of the new, lower voltage Intel DDR3 spec.
when you slap low voltage on a product. it's a marketing point, relative to ddr3 and hell to the ddr3 standard it is not low voltage.
Low voltage is a term coined by conglomerates like OCZ as a marketing point infact if you search up low voltage ddr3 you mostly come up with OCZ; thus it likely their term not an intel technical term. Intel doesn't use the word low voltage outside of their mobile platform.
Until you get acutal low voltage sticks that are form like Kingston or G.skill (which most motherboards can't run at those voltages which is funny to someone who blindly buys it)
Also no such thing as low voltage if you're not following spec of ddr3, i find any kit that is running above 1.5v just an oced ddr3 stick, same way i blindly label ddr2 sticks etc.
It's a marketing term, also way to take a joke all serious :D
It didn't seem like a joke, it just seemed like you didn't know what they were talking about. My mistake. I don't buy the delusions of corporate scheming but, as you please, by all means believe what you will. Just thought I'd provide a bit of dry, technical information.
Hey guys, so I'm a complete noob concerning hardware but want to buy a new badass gaming pc that will last quite a while. I've read my way through some articles, and ended up with this:
GPU: Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Mainboard: GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H HDD: Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB memory: Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit Power supply: Antec TruePower Quattro 850 Midi Tower: Aerocool Vx-e Pro dvd: LG DH-16NS
cost: 1388€ (including 90€ for Windows 7)
Does this setup make sense? Do these components fit together well? Is 850Watt enough for such a strong set up? Do I need any additional cooling system? Do I understand this crossfire thingy correctly that, should I in the future feel like one HD5850 doesn't do it anymore I can just buy another and run both for better performance? Is the price OK? (I'm gonna assume that Germany's prices are worse than in USA, like always, so keep that in mind)
On July 06 2010 21:58 7mk wrote: Hey guys, so I'm a complete noob concerning hardware but want to buy a new badass gaming pc that will last quite a while. I've read my way through some articles, and ended up with this:
GPU: Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Mainboard: GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H HDD: Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB memory: Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit Power supply: Antec TruePower Quattro 850 Midi Tower: Aerocool Vx-e Pro dvd: LG DH-16NS
cost: 1388€ (including 90€ for Windows 7)
Does this setup make sense? Do these components fit together well? Is 850Watt enough for such a strong set up? Do I understand this crossfire thingy correctly that, should I in the future feel like one HD5850 doesn't do it anymore I can just buy another and run both for better performance? Is the price OK? (I'm gonna assume that Germany's prices are worse than in USA, like always, so keep that in mind)
Beware that a lot of graphics cards are HUUUUGE. The card might not fit inside that case.
850W should be enough to power the rig, but if I were to suggest a case it'd be the XCLIO Windtunnel, which is about $80 - it's a full size case with great cooling and HDD mount slots oriented towards the side panel for ease of access.
On July 06 2010 21:58 7mk wrote: Hey guys, so I'm a complete noob concerning hardware but want to buy a new badass gaming pc that will last quite a while. I've read my way through some articles, and ended up with this:
GPU: Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC CPU: AMD Phenom II X6 1090T Mainboard: GIGABYTE GA-890GPA-UD3H HDD: Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB memory: Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit Power supply: Antec TruePower Quattro 850 Midi Tower: Aerocool Vx-e Pro dvd: LG DH-16NS
cost: 1388€ (including 90€ for Windows 7)
Does this setup make sense? Do these components fit together well? Is 850Watt enough for such a strong set up? Do I understand this crossfire thingy correctly that, should I in the future feel like one HD5850 doesn't do it anymore I can just buy another and run both for better performance? Is the price OK? (I'm gonna assume that Germany's prices are worse than in USA, like always, so keep that in mind)
Beware that a lot of graphics cards are HUUUUGE. The card might not fit inside that case.
850W should be enough to power the rig, but if I were to suggest a case it'd be the XCLIO Windtunnel, which is about $80 - it's a full size case with great cooling and HDD mount slots oriented towards the side panel for ease of access.
wah, fast response :p Mh unfortunately the site doesnt have that XCLIO Windtunnel I'm not sure if I'm actually gonna build this thing myself, since the site offers to do that for you for another 70€. So you think I should get a "big tower"?
the XFX is based on the Seasonic M12D platform, which is the base platform of some of the BEST power supplies on the market. The Silverstone Strider is a good, solid power supply. If you can't stand the look of the XFX, the Silverstone is a good choice.
And Haduken is right. You absolutely need to overclock the 1090T to make it worth its price tag. If you aren't going to overclock it, you might as well either go Intel with the similarly priced i5 750 + P55 platform, or a Phenom II X4 to save money, or even a Phenom II X6 1055.
On July 07 2010 08:53 haduken wrote: I wouldn't go for the 1090T unless you plan to overclock that beast.
1090T are useless for gaming anyway because games aren't programmed and optimized for 6-cores. A Phenom II x4 at the same freq has the same performances. However the x6 have an awesome price/performance ratio for people using softwares like 3ds max but it isn't the best buy for a gaming config.
1090T are perfectly fine for gaming. It's just a bit less performance than you would expect from a six-core. Overclock it and you will see performance that is just as good as you would expect, and like all BE AMD CPUs, it's easy to OC.
Thanks guys I figured that the 1090T still had just such a good price that I might as well get that one and be "safer" for the future, even though it might not make sense for any current games. I went for that 5850HD cause sapphire was a firm I actually recognised, also on hardwarecanucks.com it got better benchmark ratings than other 5850s, had a different cooler or sth. mom I'll try to find it + Show Spoiler +
The HD 5850 Toxic represents a significant step forward for Sapphire and HD 5850 cards in general since it throws out the reference design, adds a custom cooler and pushes clock speeds above and beyond what we are used to seeing. In order to keep the heat from an overclocked core under control, Sapphire has decided to use their Vapor-X cooling technology as well as a truly impressive heatsink design.
What makes the power supplies that you posted better than the Quattro? (I have no idea what makes a good/bad power supply in general..) Are you positive that 650Watts will be enough, even after overclocking the phenom and adding a second hd5850 eventually?
Thx again, I'll probably make some changes to my config tomorrow, and inform myself about overclocking :p gotta go to bed now
After a week of computer inactivity I went to turn on my desktop and it refused to turn on. I took it apart and put it back together outside of the case and it seemed to be fine. Then, I figured I might as well upgrade the cpu/motherboard/ram since I've been wanting to for awhile and I already had it apart.
My previous build looked something like this:
Thermaltake 420W PSU Athlon X2 64 4200 (2.2Ghz dual core) 6Gb DDR2 Ram (2x2GB + 2x1GB) Geforce 9600 GT 512mb 3xSATA HD (320GB+350GB+1TB) SATA DVD burner Windows Vista x64 Ultimate
I've now swapped out the Athlon for a Core i5 and the memory for 2x2Gb of DDR3. The system boots reasonably fine, but once I log in it's extremely unstable. In under a minute a few important system processes will crash (explorer, etc etc etc) followed rapidly by a blue screen. I ran the memory checker included on the vista disk and no issues were found.
I'm guessing it's because of my PSU. It's a couple years old and it doesn't seem the most stable, since apparently my computer wouldn't even turn on before taking it apart. Are there any guidelines on choosing wattage for PSUs? Does the 420W seem like it's not enough? How can I make sure it's not other things before I spend a bunch of money on a new PSU?
well if it's blue screen get the error and go from there.
via err http://support.microsoft.com/kb/192463 Or prevent auto reboot vista is i think right click my computer and go to properties then click on advance system settings then go to start up and recovery under the advance tab of the system properties dialog box that will pop up. then uncheck automatic reboot or w.e
I saw a couple of the errors from previous blue screens...
"MEMORY_MANAGEMENT" "BAD_POOL_CALLER"
...which seems to indicate memory. I'm running the memory checker on the vista disk again and it's failing, so maybe it's just bad memory after all. However, I'm still uncertain if 420W is enough for my system, and if the memory failures are being caused by a shaky power supply.
It's possible but then that's likely to note dmg thoughout your whole system, just loosen up the timings on the memory of increase the voltage or do both.
On July 07 2010 10:49 Boblion wrote: I don't understand how a PSU could make a software crash.
Let me count the ways....
How many ways can problems with your blood make you sick. Power is the very heart and soul of a computer. It is the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega - all things start from the PSU and it is where all things return. Noise, ripple, too much voltage, too little voltage, any deviation from smooth, clean power can screw with the mobo, cpu, ram, whatever - it takes as little as one bit to be seen as ON instead of OFF to throw your system for a loop and grind the whole works to a halt.
On July 07 2010 11:04 Mumblee wrote: I saw a couple of the errors from previous blue screens...
"MEMORY_MANAGEMENT" "BAD_POOL_CALLER"
...which seems to indicate memory. I'm running the memory checker on the vista disk again and it's failing, so maybe it's just bad memory after all. However, I'm still uncertain if 420W is enough for my system, and if the memory failures are being caused by a shaky power supply.
Make a bootable cd with Memtest on it and run it overnight or if you can do something else while it runs. As for the PSU, it could be it too. I used to get BSOD's while playing MW2 and I tried everything, eventually swapped out my PSU and worked like a charm.
On July 07 2010 09:52 7mk wrote: Thanks guys I figured that the 1090T still had just such a good price that I might as well get that one and be "safer" for the future, even though it might not make sense for any current games. I went for that 5850HD cause sapphire was a firm I actually recognised, also on hardwarecanucks.com it got better benchmark ratings than other 5850s, had a different cooler or sth. mom I'll try to find it + Show Spoiler +
The HD 5850 Toxic represents a significant step forward for Sapphire and HD 5850 cards in general since it throws out the reference design, adds a custom cooler and pushes clock speeds above and beyond what we are used to seeing. In order to keep the heat from an overclocked core under control, Sapphire has decided to use their Vapor-X cooling technology as well as a truly impressive heatsink design.
What makes the power supplies that you posted better than the Quattro? (I have no idea what makes a good/bad power supply in general..) Are you positive that 650Watts will be enough, even after overclocking the phenom and adding a second hd5850 eventually?
Thx again, I'll probably make some changes to my config tomorrow, and inform myself about overclocking :p gotta go to bed now
That really doesn't mean much. It's a good design, but generally a bit overpriced.
650HX probably won't be enough if you add hard drives. It might be pushing it. I don't recommend the corsair at that price anyways as it is far too expensive. The other two options are much better.
@ memory guy
lower the speed to 1066 and loose timings like 9-9-9-24 and see if you get the same problem. Vista memory checker is not as good as memtest86+ for checking memory stability. If it was just your PSU, I think high power components would get hit harder by the fluctuations. The 12V rail is normally the one that gets overloaded.
Another problem might simply be that you are getting enough power to your components. The 3.3/5V rails used to power the CPU as well as the motherboard and others while the 12V was used for GPUs/HDDs/Fans and such, but that has recently changed with the 12V going towards the CPU. If you have an old PSU you might not putting enough power to your CPU/GPU, though I'm not sure if that would actually affect your memory.
adding a 2nd 5850 with overclocking could be troublesome at 650w, although corsairs 650hx is probably closer to 700-750w just uses a lower wattage to get the high 80+ rating so it's a tough call frankly too close to do.
its an ion, the gpu is prob good enough to run sc on lowest pretty well but it's an ion, so it runs on an intel atom cpu, which is super weak not at all suitable for sc2, ofc those computers are pretty cheap too.
On July 07 2010 10:49 Boblion wrote: I don't understand how a PSU could make a software crash.
Let me count the ways....
How many ways can problems with your blood make you sick. Power is the very heart and soul of a computer. It is the beginning and the end, the alpha and the omega - all things start from the PSU and it is where all things return. Noise, ripple, too much voltage, too little voltage, any deviation from smooth, clean power can screw with the mobo, cpu, ram, whatever - it takes as little as one bit to be seen as ON instead of OFF to throw your system for a loop and grind the whole works to a halt.
well if you have too much voltage or too little voltage it will make your whole comp crash, not internet explorer
On July 07 2010 22:20 Boblion wrote: well if you have too much voltage or too little voltage it will make your whole comp crash, not internet explorer
I was referring to explorer.exe, not iexplore.exe.
Strangely enough, when I booted using a different vista user account, the blue screens seem to have subsided. I ran Prime95 in conjunction with FurMark this morning for about 20 minutes without problems, so I'm pretty sure it's not a PSU issue (If I can peg both the CPU/GPU, what more power do I need?). I left Prime95 running when I left for work this morning, and if it's clean when I get home tonight, I'll try reformatting to get rid of whatever scary ghosts there are in my machine.
So I have decided to build my own PC for the fun of learning how it is done. After some reading it looks like it can go one of two ways.
1. I basically steal someone else's up-to-date suggested build from a reputable website like bit-tech and order all that stuff.
2. I could do some research myself on sites that show the performance of hardware and make my own choices (checking compatibility).
However the second option is much harder for me because I am not familiar with the output of how CPUs etc are marked and I would worry about the uncertainty this causes. (Is one better at hyper threading than another? NB. I only know qualitatively that hyper threading helps you run more processes, no more than this).
In both cases I am going to worry if the build has all the basic stuff that I just take for granted (eg. audio, RAID).
What I would like to know is: Would you recommend putting in the extra time to do 2 over 1? Do I have to worry that simply buying a motherboard, CPU, GPU, power supply, monitor, HD, DVD drive and case will not be enough and that I will have forgotten a lan card for example?
I got all the remaining parts for a build I bought last week, here's the rig:
1 x OCZ Agility Series OCZSSD2-1AGT60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) 1 x Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930 1 x ASUS ENGTX480/2DI/1536MD5 GeForce GTX 480 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card 1 x SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM 1 x SIGMA MONSTER SP750C 750W Continuous @ 40°C ATX12V 2.2V / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Active PFC Power Supply 1 x Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 1 x MSI X58 Pro-E USB3 LGA 1366 Intel X58 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard 1 x G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
=======================================
Here is my question, the Antec Nine Hundred has 4 huge fans and I also managed to get all the cables placed neatly to increase airflow as suggested. I didn't buy any cooling system but the CPU cooler/fan that came with the i7 930 is huge and seems reasonable. Will it be OK to overclook this computer or am I risking it?
On July 08 2010 00:35 ReTr0[p.S] wrote: I got all the remaining parts for a build I bought last week, here's the rig:
1 x OCZ Agility Series OCZSSD2-1AGT60G 2.5" 60GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) 1 x Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930 1 x ASUS ENGTX480/2DI/1536MD5 GeForce GTX 480 (Fermi) 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video Card 1 x SAMSUNG DVD Burner Black SATA Model SH-S223L LightScribe Support - OEM 1 x SIGMA MONSTER SP750C 750W Continuous @ 40°C ATX12V 2.2V / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready Modular Active PFC Power Supply 1 x Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 1 x MSI X58 Pro-E USB3 LGA 1366 Intel X58 USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard 1 x G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Triple Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9T-6GBNQ
=======================================
Here is my question, the Antec Nine Hundred has 4 huge fans and I also managed to get all the cables placed neatly to increase airflow as suggested. I didn't buy any cooling system but the CPU cooler/fan that came with the i7 930 is huge and seems reasonable. Will it be OK to overclook this computer or am I risking it?
Why bother with a £600 graphics card if you arent gonna watercool :S, no point going that top of the range then simply ignoring a good cooling solution.
So far: CPU - AMD Phenom II X6 1090TT Mobo - ASUS M4A89TD (pending, might change to similar one later) PSU - Corsair CMPSU-850TX 850 Watt RAM - G.Skill 8 GB Ripjaws (2x4) HDD - WD 1TB 3.0GB/s SATA Case - Antec 1200 (pending, will probably switch to Antec 902 or some similar sized tower) Video Card - Radeon HD 5970 I'll be using my current optical drive and monitors (will replace later though). Final cost after shipping: $1,810.80. All parts from Newegg.
[edit] Price above also includes a tube of Arctic Silver.
My 4870 can run basically everything I throw at it at maximum, so I'm content. Not any other reason to upgrade unless I want like +0.2ghz more CPU power. 4Gb RAM is enough, and the difference become more negligable as you install more RAM. Faster clock speeds result in only ~5 seconds difference I believe, and I don't wish to spend another $150 just for 5 seconds. The only thing I'll consider is a SSD, but at the rate their prices are falling, I'll be content to wait another 2-3 years. I would like the "omigod best computerz evar", but I don't see that it's a huge upgrade to a $800 rig. It's like the price/performance ratio.
I can see how it'd be fun to have the latest and best everytime though.
I'm asking because I don't know, I did see a big difference on performance from a HD 5870 to a GTX 480 for only 100 bucks more (It was $460 USD for the GTX not £600). I have a highly ventilated system with fans everywhere so I was hoping that would be enough to keep everything cool enough. It's not like the GTX wont run unless you have a complete cooling system.
vica, if you're addressing me specifically (I haven't read previous posts), it's because I'm going to be doing streaming for ICCup.TV. High quality streaming will require live video encoding, and with high intensity games I'll need as much power as I can get.
On July 08 2010 02:00 ReTr0[p.S] wrote: I'm asking because I don't know, I did see a big difference on performance from a HD 5870 to a GTX 480 for only 100 bucks more (It was $460 USD for the GTX not £600). I have a highly ventilated system with fans everywhere so I was hoping that would be enough to keep everything cool enough. It's not like the GTX wont run unless you have a complete cooling system.
£420 in the UK not 600 but I stand by my opinion that it simply is not worth the extra money buying past a 5870/5850 right now esspecially with the ridiculous amount of power the 480 uses up.
uh, GTX 480/470 have better tessellation support and DX11 looks much better on the GTX 480 than on the 5870.
I don't see why people are still going on about using power when it is probably an insignificant amount of money that is going into it.
Watercooling is a huge waste for nonSLI/XFire configs. You'll down $300 on a simple CPU/GPU loop and that setup is still going to be loud because you got a half assed radiator/pump. If you add extra loops that's another $200-300 which just isn't reasonable.
On July 08 2010 01:51 tofucake wrote: Right now I'm working on a new build.
So far: CPU - AMD Phenom II X6 1090TT Mobo - ASUS M4A89TD (pending, might change to similar one later) PSU - Corsair CMPSU-850TX 850 Watt RAM - G.Skill 8 GB Ripjaws (2x4) HDD - WD 1TB 3.0GB/s SATA Case - Antec 1200 (pending, will probably switch to Antec 902 or some similar sized tower) Video Card - Radeon HD 5970 I'll be using my current optical drive and monitors (will replace later though). Final cost after shipping: $1,810.80. All parts from Newegg.
[edit] Price above also includes a tube of Arctic Silver.
If you want a gaming config i think that an i7 would be a better choice than a Phenom II x6 to go with a 5970.
Even the lowest i7 is more expensive than the Phenom, and it's got a slower clock speed and fewer cores. I'm on a (n admittedly lofty) budget here. And it's gaming+streaming, so those extra cores will be extra helpful.
On July 08 2010 05:37 tofucake wrote: Even the lowest i7 is more expensive than the Phenom, and it's got a slower clock speed and fewer cores. I'm on a (n admittedly lofty) budget here. And it's gaming+streaming, so those extra cores will be extra helpful.
No way. the i7 processor have a HUGE performance per clock advantage over the AMD processors. The extra two cores will not help you at all realistically, it's just that people are going with the six core processors because of future proofing (also e-peen) An i7-930 with hyper threading will give you 8 threads of performance AND beat out the 1090T in overclocking. If your budget is really that high then go with the i7 980x and own everyone. The reason AMD processors kick ass is because of the price:performance ratio. For half the price of intel you can get like 60% of the performance.
On July 08 2010 05:37 tofucake wrote: Even the lowest i7 is more expensive than the Phenom, and it's got a slower clock speed and fewer cores. I'm on a (n admittedly lofty) budget here. And it's gaming+streaming, so those extra cores will be extra helpful.
If you want to save money why are you taking a 5970 ?
On July 08 2010 05:37 tofucake wrote: Even the lowest i7 is more expensive than the Phenom, and it's got a slower clock speed and fewer cores. I'm on a (n admittedly lofty) budget here. And it's gaming+streaming, so those extra cores will be extra helpful.
If you want to save money why are you taking a 5970 ?
I spent a lot of time decided on the 5970. Basically, it comes down to having the highest performance per $.
Streaming really doesn't need much in terms of cores if you're only going to stream SC2. An i7 860/920/930 will carry you through just fine, and you'll get better frames because they are the faster cores.
Hyperthreading is a gimmick, but it does help a bit. In terms of streaming, you really just need a bit of extra RAM. i7 930 allows you to do that with the triple channel 6GB RAM and still let you overclock with the stability of only one channel being saturated.
5970 is just a terrible choice overall. Get a 5850 and you'll be done. Antec 1200 is a waste. If you are spending $150 on a case, make it the ATCS 840.
On July 08 2010 05:37 tofucake wrote: Even the lowest i7 is more expensive than the Phenom, and it's got a slower clock speed and fewer cores. I'm on a (n admittedly lofty) budget here. And it's gaming+streaming, so those extra cores will be extra helpful.
If you want to save money why are you taking a 5970 ?
I spent a lot of time decided on the 5970. Basically, it comes down to having the highest performance per $.
On July 08 2010 05:37 tofucake wrote: Even the lowest i7 is more expensive than the Phenom, and it's got a slower clock speed and fewer cores. I'm on a (n admittedly lofty) budget here. And it's gaming+streaming, so those extra cores will be extra helpful.
If you want to save money why are you taking a 5970 ?
I spent a lot of time decided on the 5970. Basically, it comes down to having the highest performance per $.
So what you're saying is that if I spend the same price (and it is the same since the 5970 I selected has free shipping), I get more than twice as much heat, noise, and power consumption (requiring me to get 1000W [or higher] supply, btw, which would bring the net cost of dual 470s to well more than $700), and I get an average of 17.3% @ 1600x900, 15.8% @ 1920x1080, and a paltry 6.5% @ 2560x1600 improved performance (overall average of 13%)? No thanks.
The power consumption of the fermi series is far overrated.
An 850W will easily handle 2 GTX 470s in SLI. As far as heat goes, you could expect the same amount of heat from an SLI GTX 285 setup which many people do and have no problem with.
Then again, this is assuming you need the 5970 in the first place, which you don't. You would be fine with Crossfire 5850 or even a single 5850 if your purpose is streaming SC2.
On July 08 2010 05:37 tofucake wrote: Even the lowest i7 is more expensive than the Phenom, and it's got a slower clock speed and fewer cores. I'm on a (n admittedly lofty) budget here. And it's gaming+streaming, so those extra cores will be extra helpful.
If you want to save money why are you taking a 5970 ?
I spent a lot of time decided on the 5970. Basically, it comes down to having the highest performance per $.
Best price/performance ratio would have been to buy an Athlon II x3 + a 4870 8 months ago :p
Even if you want to do GPU Encoding, which I don't believe is supported by FMLE at the moment, you would be better off with an Nvidia card because of CUDA. ATI Stream is not nearly as widely supported as CUDA, and when it is supported, the support is not as good as CUDA.
Even for encoding, GPUs do not need to be very good to encode. A measily HD 5670 or something will encode far better than an i7 980X
You don't need the 5970. If you want it, go for it. I don't have a problem with the 1090T, but for your purposes an Intel i7 would be better. A 5850/5870/GTX 470/GTX 480 would suit your build much better.
On July 08 2010 09:54 FragKrag wrote: The power consumption of the fermi series is far overrated.
An 850W will easily handle 2 GTX 470s in SLI. As far as heat goes, you could expect the same amount of heat from an SLI GTX 285 setup which many people do and have no problem with.
Then again, this is assuming you need the 5970 in the first place, which you don't. You would be fine with Crossfire 5850 or even a single 5850 if your purpose is streaming SC2.
No, it's not my only purpose. I will be streaming multiple games, including SC2, CS 1.6 which requires little, ME:2, possibly DoW2, and I also do video encoding unrelated to gaming. There's also plenty of gaming I'll be doing that I won't stream.
And I'm not using the same motherboard listed anymore. I've instead swapped it out for a similar one with a few fewer features (1 less PCIe 2.0 slot and no 1600 RAM, since the Phenom only supports 1333 anyway) to save another $60. But point taken on the power and heat. Either way, I've still got a few weeks before I order, so I'll mull over it.
On July 08 2010 10:10 FragKrag wrote: Even if you want to do GPU Encoding, which I don't believe is supported by FMLE at the moment, you would be better off with an Nvidia card because of CUDA. ATI Stream is not nearly as widely supported as CUDA, and when it is supported, the support is not as good as CUDA.
Even for encoding, GPUs do not need to be very good to encode. A measily HD 5670 or something will encode far better than an i7 980X
You don't need the 5970. If you want it, go for it. I don't have a problem with the 1090T, but for your purposes an Intel i7 would be better. A 5850/5870/GTX 470/GTX 480 would suit your build much better.
i7's are too expensive for the performance relative to the 1090T.
GPGPU has not advanced far enough for it to be very common place at the moment. I would say get an HD 5870 and a better motherboard so you can add another. ME:2 puts almost no stress on the 5870 (even before catalyst drivers), and the 5870 was averaging 60+ fps on DoW2 before catalyst drivers as well.
I wouldn't skimp on the motheboard. Better motherboards give better overclocking capabilities and features you don't realize you want until you need them. (like a clear CMOS button)
You don't need the 5970 unless you are doing tri-monitor eyefinity or like 2560x1600.
Uh the 1090T is $300, you can pick up an i7 930 @ Microcenter for $200-230 (depending on the day) or $280 or so at Newegg. The cost comes from the X58 (which is comparable to the 890FX/790FX motherboards)
And I have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to performance. If you are going to encode, then yes the 1090T wins over the i7 930/860, but if you are talking about gaming, the i7s are still miles ahead in every regard.
Hey guys, I'm doing a build for a friend with a $1000 budget, excluding all peripherals. This is only my second build, so I'd like your input before I finalize it:
That was just something I threw together on newegg, obviously there are more effective coolers for comparable cost, but not all of them are sold there.
I personally have a Hyper 212+ but buying it at newegg would be foolish.
@nineninja9: Yeah, that looks good. I forgot about combo deals actually, thanks for saving me/him like $40 haha.
Generally speaking, how necessary is a cooler/heatsink? I didn't use one last time, would it be that beneficial to this system? And also, is the rest of the system (excluding cooler) good to go otherwise?
On July 08 2010 15:34 Roggles wrote: @nineninja9: Yeah, that looks good. I forgot about combo deals actually, thanks for saving me/him like $40 haha.
Generally speaking, how necessary is a cooler/heatsink? I didn't use one last time, would it be that beneficial to this system? And also, is the rest of the system (excluding cooler) good to go otherwise?
only useful if you're overclocking. cpus should come with a stock hsf, it should be sufficient.
Yeah I know CPUs came with a heatsink, but I didn't know if it would be good enough for a GPU like the 5850 since I haven't really used anything that powerful before. I don't think he's much of an overclocker, so it should be no problem. Good to know for future reference though.
Haha I knew that, my words came out wrong. I just meant that I didn't know if the stock heatsink would dissipate the CPU heat well enough so that combined with the GPU heat it wouldn't overheat or something.
I would like to build a new computer with very specific requirements. price is of no concern, but obviously I would prefer not to waste money on useless stuff.
basically I want it to be absolutely as dead quiet as possible, meaning ideally I wouldn't be able to hear anything in a silent room with the computer 1 inch from my ear. this is the number one priority and it is much more important than performance, as long as the build can still play 1080p videos and multitask decently well with a bunch of trivial stuff open (i.e. torrents, web browsers, music, video, etc.). It doesn't need to be able to play any games well, but if it is possible to do so without affecting how quiet the system is I'd want to add it.
Right now, I am thinking about - AMD 955 with no overclocking and a quieter aftermarket fan - i dont really know if gpu, memory, etc will affect noise so maybe i should go for something more high end? not sure - only SSD for storage, since it should be quieter than hard disks? - some kind of very large case which has enough space for me to put noise isolating stuffing inside to reduce noise
As far as HDDs go, I have Samsung F3 1TB drives, and I normally never ever hear them. Going SSD for storage will break your budget no matter how high your budget is.
A few things to note: 5400 RPM drives are very quiet, they are typically the ones used in laptops so I think that should give you some idea of the noise. Considering this, I think it's difficult to justify a SSD in any form, especially considering its relative cost compared to the build.
From what I can tell, the i3-530 is able to decode 1080p video with integrated graphics. I have heard that the stock fan on the 530 is fairly quiet, though you may want to go with a passive cooler which should cost $30-$50. Of course, this also means you should avoid playing games that are even remotely demanding.
I'm fairly iffy on the fans. The cost of 3 fans should be about the same regardless, but you can get fans that are both quiet and effective, or incredibly quiet fans that, while basically impossible to hear, move so little air that it might not be enough to cool the case.
I assumed you would want a blu-ray drive, but removing it saves you $60.
It comes out to $500 without SSD/blu-ray, which I think is acceptable. You can save around $100 more by picking out a case with a built in power supply and dropping the fans.
Also, I think spending extra money on a large case and then stuffing it to muffle noise is a bad idea, but that's just my opinion.
Just a disclaimer, I have very little experience building HTPCs.
Total: 366,14 € With a coupon I have I can get it down to about 300€.
What do you guys think? Should I rather go for a AMD system?
Is the mobo ok? I don't know much about mobos.. I was also thinking about getting a SSD to put the OS and a few games on (SC). Was thinking about this one: 64GB Western Digital SiliconEdge Blue 121,34 €
Dunno much about SSDs, but reviews said its good for the price. Will it be compatible with the mobo? Does a SSD require special features? (Special SATA controller or smth?).
On July 08 2010 17:22 nineninja9 wrote: So you basically want to build a home theatre pc?
A few things to note: 5400 RPM drives are very quiet, they are typically the ones used in laptops so I think that should give you some idea of the noise. Considering this, I think it's difficult to justify a SSD in any form, especially considering its relative cost compared to the build.
From what I can tell, the i3-530 is able to decode 1080p video with integrated graphics. I have heard that the stock fan on the 530 is fairly quiet, though you may want to go with a passive cooler which should cost $30-$50. Of course, this also means you should avoid playing games that are even remotely demanding.
I'm fairly iffy on the fans. The cost of 3 fans should be about the same regardless, but you can get fans that are both quiet and effective, or incredibly quiet fans that, while basically impossible to hear, move so little air that it might not be enough to cool the case.
I assumed you would want a blu-ray drive, but removing it saves you $60.
It comes out to $500 without SSD/blu-ray, which I think is acceptable. You can save around $100 more by picking out a case with a built in power supply and dropping the fans.
Also, I think spending extra money on a large case and then stuffing it to muffle noise is a bad idea, but that's just my opinion.
Just a disclaimer, I have very little experience building HTPCs.
the hdd is a 5400rpm if it's not too much more costly i'd move to a Western Digital Green, most have a great baring system that's ultra quiet under use.
I could really use a gaming build. I don't know much about computers, so could use some help. The builds so far are they only for gaming? Or do they have some gaming wise unneccesary stuff?
On July 08 2010 10:25 FragKrag wrote: Streaming puts almost 0 stress on the GPU.
GPGPU has not advanced far enough for it to be very common place at the moment. I would say get an HD 5870 and a better motherboard so you can add another. ME:2 puts almost no stress on the 5870 (even before catalyst drivers), and the 5870 was averaging 60+ fps on DoW2 before catalyst drivers as well.
I wouldn't skimp on the motheboard. Better motherboards give better overclocking capabilities and features you don't realize you want until you need them. (like a clear CMOS button)
You don't need the 5970 unless you are doing tri-monitor eyefinity or like 2560x1600.
Uh the 1090T is $300, you can pick up an i7 930 @ Microcenter for $200-230 (depending on the day) or $280 or so at Newegg. The cost comes from the X58 (which is comparable to the 890FX/790FX motherboards)
And I have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to performance. If you are going to encode, then yes the 1090T wins over the i7 930/860, but if you are talking about gaming, the i7s are still miles ahead in every regard.
The $280 i7s are duos at 2.8 GHz. And I've said numerous times I'll be doing video encoding unrelated to gaming. Resetting CMOS is easy without a button, and I don't plan to spend $60 for one. And I plan to set up at least 2 HP LP3065s.
There is no reason not to go for 1090T, it is the best CPU that AMD has put out in a while. But being a Black Edition, I hope you take advantage of that.
On July 08 2010 20:56 haduken wrote: Clock for clock, Intel wins though.
There is no reason not to go for 1090T, it is the best CPU that AMD has put out in a while. But being a Black Edition, I hope you take advantage of that.
the reason no one should go for a 1090T is because the 1055T is $100 less and can overclock just as well with a little more work
On July 08 2010 10:25 FragKrag wrote: Streaming puts almost 0 stress on the GPU.
GPGPU has not advanced far enough for it to be very common place at the moment. I would say get an HD 5870 and a better motherboard so you can add another. ME:2 puts almost no stress on the 5870 (even before catalyst drivers), and the 5870 was averaging 60+ fps on DoW2 before catalyst drivers as well.
I wouldn't skimp on the motheboard. Better motherboards give better overclocking capabilities and features you don't realize you want until you need them. (like a clear CMOS button)
You don't need the 5970 unless you are doing tri-monitor eyefinity or like 2560x1600.
Uh the 1090T is $300, you can pick up an i7 930 @ Microcenter for $200-230 (depending on the day) or $280 or so at Newegg. The cost comes from the X58 (which is comparable to the 890FX/790FX motherboards)
And I have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to performance. If you are going to encode, then yes the 1090T wins over the i7 930/860, but if you are talking about gaming, the i7s are still miles ahead in every regard.
The $280 i7s are duos at 2.8 GHz. And I've said numerous times I'll be doing video encoding unrelated to gaming. Resetting CMOS is easy without a button, and I don't plan to spend $60 for one. And I plan to set up at least 2 HP LP3065s.
also i7s are not duals if that's what you mean. there really is almost no reason to go AMD if you're spending $300 on a cpu the 1090T is simply not worth it. unless you're going to do some professional encoding an i7 860 does just as well as a 1090T and does far better in gaming thanks to turbo. this of course is for the sake of discussion, in almost all cases i7 860 > 1090T. of course, the 1055T would be a different matter altogether.
I'd honestly like to build my own, but I get so bogged down in the details, trying to figure out where to save and where to splurge. I've been thinking that the time savings from buying a premade might be worth the cost difference.
is coretemp a reliable program for determining cpu temps?
I've been trying to determine what temp my cpu is at when playing games, but pcprobe and coretemp give me drastically different numbers. Coretemp's numbers are much lower, by about 6-7 degrees
G0dly: Real Temp is generally what people end up using
What CPU is it? In the past years (not sure when), Intel and AMD changed where the heat sensor is. So older monitors like Speed Fan give a lower temperature. Anyways you generally want to go with the higher temperature :p
Rho_ you won't spend any time if we put together a list of parts for you :p
On July 09 2010 09:35 FragKrag wrote: G0dly: Real Temp is generally what people end up using
What CPU is it? In the past years (not sure when), Intel and AMD changed where the heat sensor is. So older monitors like Speed Fan give a lower temperature. Anyways you generally want to go with the higher temperature :p
Rho_ you won't spend any time if we put together a list of parts for you :p
after all that is what this thread is for!
yeah, about putting a computer together it's just like an afternoon as a bonus you get no bloat ware on your computer you need to remove.
If it's your first time it's likely an afternoon, i can do it in like an hour, 10-30 mins to install windows haha yeah.
depends a lot on the parts you get and the effort you put in though. The more effort you put in, the cleaner the build is and the better your airflow (though have a good case makes this so much easier)
I'm actually pretty comfortable getting all up in the guts of a computer, it's more the part selection part that intimidates me. Therefore, I'll take you guys up on your kind offer to build me a part list. I'll try to give you as much information as possible; lets see what you can do
Expected usage: 90% gaming. 10% general computing. I do enjoy having music, chat, and internet browsing programs running while I game, but it's not 100% necessary. I guess that I'd like to be able to stream/fraps while I game, but that's really just a bonus, not a high priority.
Priorities: Most important thing is that this computer be quiet; not necessarily silent, but pretty darn close. Beyond that, I really don't give a fuck how light/cool looking a case is (these are, of course, nice bonus features, but I'm not sacrificing other features for it). I've had a jet engine for the past 5 years, and I'm ready for something that isn't that way.
Next, I'd like to be able to upgrade in the future, so I'm looking at Crossfire ready mobos and the LGA 1366 or AM3 processors. If this isn't feasible due to cost, I understand, but I'd like to future proof as much as is possible (somewhat of a pipe dream, I know).
Ram can be 4GB, as long as I have the option to boost that down the road (I think that 4GB would be sufficient for what I want to do, if I'm wrong, correct me). I have no preference in terms of Intel vs. AMD. For GPU, from what I understand ATI is generally the better brand choice at the moment, but I'm not particularly choosy, and if you can tell me that a nVidia card is just as good or better for whatever reason, I'll listen.
Finally, I've never overclocked before, so I'm a little gunshy when it comes to that. However, as long as there is a solid precedent for the parts overclocking reliably, I'm willing to give it a go (hopefully you cats would be willing to help me out with that, as well).
Budget: Lets say 1300, since someone a few posts up had that as their budget.
I'm looking forward to what you guys come up with, and I'd like to thank you in advance for your help.
Antec 300 AMD Phenom II X4 3.2GHz MSI 870A-G54 mobo 4GB G.Skill Ripjaws RAM Sapphire HD 5770 SeaSonic M12II 520W modular PSU Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB HD Windows 7 install disc
Now I'm just waiting on the Gelid Tranquillo heatsink/fan, which should be here tomorrow.
Working 10 to 3 tomorrow, and UPS delivers around 2PM on my street, so I should be able to come home to all my parts, take a quick cool shower (working in a Country Club's cramped poolside snack bar/grill/frying area in 95° weather...), and get assembling. The amount of wires with the power supply kind of overwhelmed me, but I'm assuming a lot of them won't be used. Everything seems pretty straightforward, although I'm going to be nervous when I install the RAM and the 5770.
This build is not particularly quiet, and considering how poorly crossfire scales, it's not particularly upgradeable either, not to mention the board only supports x8 x8 with 2 gpus. It is also slightly over your budget, assuming you don't count mail in rebates. I was originally planning a 1366/470 build since SLI scales so nicely, but I was having difficulty staying within budget with even a single 470.
That being said, you have rather high standards, wanting a build that is both high-end and quiet. If you start using crossfire or SLI, I don't think there's any feasible way to keep your build particularly quiet given the amount of air you're going to have to move to cool the case.
Just to ask, is there any way for you to get an operating system through school or work? Also, if you live near a Microcenter, you can get an i7-930 for only $200, which helps your budget greatly. I might edit in an intel build if either of these options are feasible for you.
First, I realize my standards are kinda high, but I also don't have a real grasp of what's possible at what price points, so I was just throwing those out there to help guide you fellows.
For W7, I might be able to handle that myself, need to do some investigation (Friend works for a uni, might be able to hook me up).
Do my priorities make sense to you guys? Or do you think I'm better off going cheaper (single card, i5, etc) rather than trying to be ready to upgrade?
Well my preference for the processor is based mainly on the discussion on the first page of this thread. Specifically, it states that there is concern for the longevity of the LGA 1156. Do I really even need to worry about that, given what I want to do? Is the LGA 1366/AMD3 strictly overkill? If it's easier to do i5 and make it nice and quiet without hampering what I want to do, then I'm all about that.
The difference between LGA 1156 and LGA 1366 in terms of upgradability is moot. LGA 1366 dies Q3 or so next year and LGA 1156 dies Q1-Q2. Either way they are both out by mid/late 2011. You won't be getting any new CPUs (maybe a six core on LGA 1366, though I doubt it'll be worth it).
The main difference here between LGA 1156 and LGA 1366 is that LGA 1366 offers full PCIe 2.0 X16 bandwidth to both cards in Crossfire/SLI while LGA 1156 offers half of that per card. Unless you are going above a 5850, it will probably shave off a very insignificant amount of performance, and the LGA 1156 should end up coming out a bit cheaper.
AM3 is the only socket which should still be upgradable come 2011. Bulldozer should be able to work with AM3 according to AMD. If you want to be able to upgrade, AM3 is your only option.
If being able to upgrade is important to you, I think you should go with an AMD build and a 470. As far as I can tell, if you do an intel build the 1366 is basically a dead socket, meaning you won't be able to upgrade your processor without buying an entirely new motherboard in the future. Of course, I highly doubt that you'll be able to bottleneck an i7, so that might not be particularly important. Also, SLI scales much more effectively than crossfire, so that's why I'm recommending nvidia.
Then again, nvidia isn't known for being particularly cool or quiet this generation. If it's more important for your computer to be quiet, I think an i5 build would be a better choice. An i5 won't really be bottlenecking your gpu anytime soon either, and the money you save can be put into extra fans and heatsinks that will help your computer run as quietly as possible. You would then probably get something like a 5850 with a plan to crossfire later on.
Thanks for the input guys. I am strongly leaning towards that AMD build. That should be plenty quiet right? If I can swing the Win 7 deal, would I be advised to drop a little more on a better case for more quiet?
Considering how much the shipping is on those cases, you don't seem to be saving very much money at all. Is there a particular reason you're considering a full tower?
Considering how much the shipping is on those cases, you don't seem to be saving very much money at all. Is there a particular reason you're considering a full tower?
There's no preference for me between full tower and mid tower. The full tower looks like a good deal considering its MSRP and huge cooling fans. I already have a low budget setup on newegg atm and I'm just looking to cut corners now.
On July 10 2010 09:30 semantics wrote: well besides there some bloat like a tv tuner hdmi cables, 850w psu etc
There is alot of bloat in there for parts that aren't necessarily bad but don't necessarily belong together.
Yeah, I built almost this same system but with better ram, a better mobo, a better case, better PSU (corsair!) and no bloat for just over $1000 canadian, which is just under a thousand US.
On July 10 2010 09:33 R04R wrote: There's no preference for me between full tower and mid tower. The full tower looks like a good deal considering its MSRP and huge cooling fans. I already have a low budget setup on newegg atm and I'm just looking to cut corners now.
Edit: Thanks FragKrag, just saw your post
I'll second the LianLi if you want to stick with those combos.
You could also get a cm 692 basic and ram for the same price even without a combo, considering shipping on cm 692 is free.
Pick the cheaper one. Most RAM doesn't even get hot enough to warrant heatspreaders, and I've heard that some RAM actually runs warmer with heatspreaders than without.
On July 10 2010 10:53 G0dly wrote: I just built a computer with an antec 300 and the case fans won't spin
the LED lights are on and it looks like it's plugged in correctly. They're directly connected to the PSU
yet they don't spin -.-
am I doing something wrong?
So you connected the 4 pin Molex connectors from the fans to the PSU?
hm that sounds very odd. Are you sure all 4 of the connections are in and that it is tight? Molex is a bitch sometimes. Do you have a Molex to fan header extension that you can use to see if it's a problem with the fan?
So I spent 5 hours putting my computer together... I did something wrong, because while the computer turns on and all of the fans spin, the monitor acts like nothing is happening.
I've googled many different things, but is there a site I can go to that has detail on the wiring?
I have a DVD drive as well as a DVD+RW drive hooked up with those floppy ribbon cables, connected to the mobo. The DVD+RW drive works, but the DVD drive isn't responding.
I hooked the two case fans up to the power supply as opposed to the SYSFAN1/2 spots on the mobo, and they're working fine.
The heatsink/fan seems to be working fine.
The graphics card lights are on, but like I said, something has to be wrong because I hooked the monitor up and nothing happened when I powered the computer on.
I'm done working on it for the day. Ugh I was really looking forward to jumping back into the beta, with playable performance.
Depends on the mobo most will have a 8pin, but all should have a 4 pin on the mobo.
Yeah normally when i can't get a computer to book i unplug everything, it's just a good practice sometimes connections aren't seated properly but look all the way in unpluging and resetting those connections can be sometimes a help oddly enough.
Then i only leave in the video card 1 stick on ram in the proper slot and see if i can get it to post.
Then i work up adding parts to ensure i can tell when or what is causing the problem.
On July 10 2010 11:42 FragKrag wrote: Try booting up with just 1 stick of RAM in the A1 position of your mobo (wherever that may be)
If you have an ASUS mobo and have the memOK! feature, try that. Memory instability can cause an inability to boot.
I can't get to the 1st RAM slot - the heatsink is in the way. I'm currently using slots 3 and 4 because that's really all I can use.
It's an MSI 870A-G54 mobo.
Just to make sure, your CPU is receiving power right? If the 4/8 pin connector near the cpu isn't plugged in, then you'll get the exact problems you described.
I just went through Newegg's reviews... The last 3-4 days, multiple people have given 1/5 ratings for receiving a dead mobo or one that didn't display video. Hopefully one of your solutions will help me avoid tearing my face off.
"Cons: When plugged in, everything worked except for the monitor. All fans, lights etc came on. I asked around, was told that it was DOA. I asked my IT friend to come over and take a look. He came over, took my processor out, looked at it , put it in again and turned everything on. Same thing."
On July 10 2010 11:42 FragKrag wrote: Try booting up with just 1 stick of RAM in the A1 position of your mobo (wherever that may be)
If you have an ASUS mobo and have the memOK! feature, try that. Memory instability can cause an inability to boot.
I can't get to the 1st RAM slot - the heatsink is in the way. I'm currently using slots 3 and 4 because that's really all I can use.
It's an MSI 870A-G54 mobo.
Just to make sure, your CPU is receiving power right? If the 4/8 pin connector near the cpu isn't plugged in, then you'll get the exact problems you described.
Wow, the 4/8 pin one WASN'T connected.
I have an 8 pin cable that fits, but I also have a cable that is two blocks of 4, that also fits if I just plug one of the blocks in. It came with a (removable) piece of plastic covering up one of the blocks of 4 on the mobo. Should I use the regular 8 pin one, or only use a 4 pin one in the slot that was initially open?
I have an 8 pin cable that fits, but I also have a cable that is two blocks of 4, that also fits if I just plug one of the blocks in. It came with a (removable) piece of plastic covering up one of the blocks of 4 on the mobo. Should I use the regular 8 pin one, or only use a 4 pin one in the slot that was initially open?
Use the 4 pin on the slot that was initially open.
That's a pretty easy mistake to make, I recognized the symptoms so quickly because I did that on my first build a while back and couldn't figure it out for hours.
I found a xfx hd 4870 that's cheaper than the xfx hd 4850 after MIR and shipping is factored, but the reviews say the 4870s get reallllly hot because of an incompetent fan.
On July 10 2010 12:58 R04R wrote: I found a xfx hd 4870 that's cheaper than the xfx hd 4850 after MIR and shipping is factored, but the reviews say the 4870s get reallllly hot because of an incompetent fan.
4870s get very hot in general. Mine idles at about 42C, but really it only matters if you care about fan noise. That and you'll pay a couple more dollars a year on electricity, but it's fairly insignificant.
On July 10 2010 12:58 R04R wrote: I found a xfx hd 4870 that's cheaper than the xfx hd 4850 after MIR and shipping is factored, but the reviews say the 4870s get reallllly hot because of an incompetent fan.
4870s get very hot in general. Mine idles at about 42C, but really it only matters if you care about fan noise. That and you'll pay a couple more dollars a year on electricity, but it's fairly insignificant.
lol you call that hot my 8800gtx idled at 60c until i installed an aftermarket heat-sink all over that dam thing so it idled at 40 and at load at 50
On July 10 2010 12:58 R04R wrote: I found a xfx hd 4870 that's cheaper than the xfx hd 4850 after MIR and shipping is factored, but the reviews say the 4870s get reallllly hot because of an incompetent fan.
4870s get very hot in general. Mine idles at about 42C, but really it only matters if you care about fan noise. That and you'll pay a couple more dollars a year on electricity, but it's fairly insignificant.
lol you call that hot my 8800gtx idled at 60c until i installed an aftermarket heat-sink all over that dam thing so it idled at 40 and at load at 50
I dunno... some of the reviews on the 4870 claim 60-80C Idles and one got to 98C on a full load :S
I am now posting from my new computer! Thanks a TON nineninja9 - I was about to cry tears of agony and despair.
Everything is recognized and working. I was honestly too lazy to remove the components one by one so I just prayed that the 8-pin connector (which is what I used) would make the difference, and it did.
Windows 7 is going to take some getting used to...
Thank you all so much for all the help and answers you gave me over the last week or two!
Decided the XFXs were too expensive. I found these 2 4850s
I know Sapphire isn't the best brand, but for what it's worth, it has Vapor-X(?gimmick?) cooling that keeps temps pretty low according to reviews with respect to most 4850s. Only thing I hope for is to not get a faulty card. 650mhz/1000mhz http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102834 $80 after MIR
I was going begin looking at GT250s but I'm a bit iffy on that spectrum of graphics cards.
Edit: I'm a bit confused in finding a PSU. I used Newegg's "Which Power Supply Do I Need?" feature where you input what parts you're using and it determines an amount of wattage recommended for you.
How much should I scale up from that? I noticed the efficiencies of (good) PSUs are a little above 80%, so should I get the recommended wattage after factoring the 80% efficiency of the PSU or just a little over?
On July 10 2010 20:04 R04R wrote: How much should I scale up from that? I noticed the efficiencies of (good) PSUs are a little above 80%, so should I get the recommended wattage after factoring the 80% efficiency of the PSU or just a little over?
Afaik power supplies, transformers, etc. are rated for the power delivered on the output, not the input power required to deliver that output. If it's a 450W PSU, it's supposed to be able to deliver 450W to the computer, drawing 562.5W from the wall if at 80% efficiency at full load or 530W if at 85% efficiency. I think this is what you were talking about, for "factoring the 80% efficiency of the PSU?" Also, keep in mind that PSU calculators are probably some back-of-the-envelope conservative estimates, and decent PSUs can deliver somewhat over their rated value before shutting down.
By decent I think you just mean underrated psus. Corsair is quite famous for it since they want to keep their efficiencies up. They just get a higher wattage PSU and rate it lower.
PSUs are rated for their output, though essentially you can get the amount of power you can expect from the PSU by multiplying the 12V rail(s) by 12 and adding them together.
some best buys acually have some computer parts at competitive prices, like their cpu coolers aren't half bad now or their psu's they do tend to stock antenc corsair and bfg.
Some things like their DVI or Cat6 cables are horribly expensive
Yeah the generic brand i think is dynex which is priced bad for a shitty psu.
Your selected power supply has a "1" in place of an "i". Ew. And your mobo supports 6GB/s transfer rate, but your HDD is only 3GB/s. Maybe consider a different HDD?
Rho_ This is just my corsair bias here, but I'd take the 750HX. The CP 850 only fits in a few cases and if you ever decide to change (though if you have a P183 that day might not come for a while), it won't work out. The Corsair also has better efficiency. If you're looking at it from a price point of view, Antec no contest.
tofucake, not a single convential HDD can saturate the full 3GB/s so all of those 6GB/s HDDs are just a complete waste of money. As far as I know, there is only ONE drive on the market that actually surpasses 3GB/s (Crucial C300 RealSSD)
Can you explain your motherboard choice? I can't figure out why you chose that board. It doesn't seem to be particularly feature-rich for its cost, and it's also not one of the cheapest am3 boards, so I can't tell what you're going for.
This is just an example, but I'm fairly certain you can get a build that is either cheaper and does almost the same thing, or one that costs the same but uses slightly better components.
On July 11 2010 10:12 FragKrag wrote: Rho_ This is just my corsair bias here, but I'd take the 750HX. The CP 850 only fits in a few cases and if you ever decide to change (though if you have a P183 that day might not come for a while), it won't work out. The Corsair also has better efficiency. If you're looking at it from a price point of view, Antec no contest.
tofucake, not a single convential HDD can saturate the full 3GB/s so all of those 6GB/s HDDs are just a complete waste of money. As far as I know, there is only ONE drive on the market that actually surpasses 3GB/s (Crucial C300 RealSSD)
:d if you wanted to take teh cake on quality i'd get a seasonic X fan off = sexy silent.
really the fact that the fan doesn't go on doesn't say much. I can never hear my HX650 anyways. I run furmark + prime95 and can't hear the PSU at all even with an open case. The Seasonic is more about the efficiency imho.
nineninja9 that actually is a fairly good board. The 890 chipset comes with onboard SATA III support (though uselses, is a feature), and the board has USB 3.0 running off of some spare PCIe lanes.
Oh wow my bad, I just picked the combo with the cheapest board. I believe my point still stands though. I mean, this is a budget build, I don't see sata3 or usb3 are particularly important features to pay extra for.
On July 11 2010 19:35 haduken wrote: thinking of sound proofing my rig. what do you guys suggest?
I'm interested in this as well. Building a new machine for playing SC2, and I want it to be as quiet as possible. Budget is around $700. Is there anything in particular I should aim for to minimize sound?
GTX 460 was just released today for those looking to hit the $200-$225 range. It received rave reviews and overclocks like a champ (even beating out stock 5850). If you're in the market for a card between a 5770 and 5850, this is the one to get.
The 460 has now replaced the 5770 as my midrange recommendation. Its $50 more, but on average provides 10-20fps more than the 5770. Then there's the OC capability which pushes the value even higher. The 460 is also achieving 100% increase with SLI, which is astounding.
I already have everything else, GPU: gforce 7600gt.
Some questions:
1.- Will this run sc2 medium ok? 2.- Should I go for 2gb of ram only and get a new gpu? 3.- Is any 500w psu ok or should I get this one? : * cooler master extreme 500w rs500-pcara3-us thx in advance.
Looks like a solid build, but why are you choosing Kingston HyperX? If I'm not mistaken that is a performance line of RAM.
1. I think the GPU might be a bit weak for medium, but I don't know. Depends on the resolution you intend to play at I guess. 2. If your purpose is to play SC2, you can always upgrade your GPU later, but if you buy a 2gb stick of RAM, it may make upgrading your RAM later troublesome. I would just get the full 4gb and then add a GPU later if the 7600GT is not capable of running it. 3. 500W should be enough. Do you know how much is on the 12V Rail? Ideally it should be around the mid 30s to high 30s.
I already have everything else, GPU: gforce 7600gt.
Some questions:
1.- Will this run sc2 medium ok? 2.- Should I go for 2gb of ram only and get a new gpu? 3.- Is any 500w psu ok or should I get this one? : * cooler master extreme 500w rs500-pcara3-us thx in advance.
I'm not sure if 7600GT can run SC2 smoothly... as for RAM, 4GB is recommended.
Any thoughts on the pricing, quality of the deal? Thoughts on the video card? Thoughts on the PSU?
Here are my other parts: Mobo: MSI 880GMA-E45 Processor: AMD Phenom II X6 2.8 GHz Processor Case: Antec Three Hundred HDD: f3 Spinpoint 7200rpm 1GB edit: 4gb Corsair Ram (2x2)
I just read reviews regarding both of the cases... pretty much won me over with the CM 690II. And I already knew the corsair was better than that antec psu. Just seeing the nine hundred two as a shell shocker made me want it.
Going to purchase Phenom X4 965 off of newegg around Fall, not sure about the X6 right now... though its $200 with free-shipping.
Most importantly a decent AM3 mobo that isnt too pricey, lets say around no more than $100. Any recommendations? Gonna swap out the DDR2 RAM too, pretty much an overhaul except for my GPU and PSU(Sapphire 4770 and 650W EarthWatts).
I dont really have much of a problem with cooling, during those really hot-humid days here. Ive done a few tests under-load my GPU usually maxes out at 60C(Usually goes down when I set my fan to 80% Speed, usually kept at 50%) and my CPU around 50C.
On July 14 2010 15:04 Disregard wrote: Going to purchase Phenom X4 965 off of newegg around Fall, not sure about the X6 right now... though its $200 with free-shipping.
Most importantly a decent AM3 mobo that isnt too pricey, lets say around no more than $100. Any recommendations? Gonna swap out the DDR2 RAM too, pretty much an overhaul except for my GPU and PSU(Sapphire 4770 and 650W EarthWatts).
I dont really have much of a problem with cooling, during those really hot-humid days here. Ive done a few tests under-load my GPU usually maxes out at 60C(Usually goes down when I set my fan to 80% Speed, usually kept at 50%) and my CPU around 50C.
I would get a 945 / 955BE, with a little overclocking they can get the clocks of a 965 with stock voltage and cooling.
If you are going to use the PC to play games, no use in getting the X6.
On July 14 2010 15:04 Disregard wrote: Going to purchase Phenom X4 965 off of newegg around Fall, not sure about the X6 right now... though its $200 with free-shipping.
Most importantly a decent AM3 mobo that isnt too pricey, lets say around no more than $100. Any recommendations? Gonna swap out the DDR2 RAM too, pretty much an overhaul except for my GPU and PSU(Sapphire 4770 and 650W EarthWatts).
I dont really have much of a problem with cooling, during those really hot-humid days here. Ive done a few tests under-load my GPU usually maxes out at 60C(Usually goes down when I set my fan to 80% Speed, usually kept at 50%) and my CPU around 50C.
The Phenom II X4 965 is really a bit of a waste. It's just a 955 with a +1 multiplier and since both are black edition, there is really no reason to get a Phenom II X4 965 unless you are concerned with binning (and that is only a concern for extreme overclockers). You can get the same performance as the 965 with the 955 easily.
If all goes well I'll be buying parts for a new build on friday. Below is the build I am think of. Do you guys have any more comments if I should change anything? This is supposed to be a very quiet and reliable/stable mid-performance PC with no overclocking, something like 80% productivity and 20% gaming. Thanks for all the help so far!
Is there any way you could get windows 7 through school or work and save some money?
How necessary is a bluray drive for you?
Also, it might be beneficial to wait a little while before going through with your purchase, since prices on ati graphics cards might drop some time soon.
Going to purchase Phenom X4 965 off of newegg around Fall, not sure about the X6 right now... though its $200 with free-shipping.
Most importantly a decent AM3 mobo that isnt too pricey, lets say around no more than $100. Any recommendations? Gonna swap out the DDR2 RAM too, pretty much an overhaul except for my GPU and PSU(Sapphire 4770 and 650W EarthWatts).
I dont really have much of a problem with cooling, during those really hot-humid days here. Ive done a few tests under-load my GPU usually maxes out at 60C(Usually goes down when I set my fan to 80% Speed, usually kept at 50%) and my CPU around 50C.
The Phenom II X4 965 is really a bit of a waste. It's just a 955 with a +1 multiplier and since both are black edition, there is really no reason to get a Phenom II X4 965 unless you are concerned with binning (and that is only a concern for extreme overclockers). You can get the same performance as the 965 with the 955 easily.
I have never OC'ed before, dont have experience with it. Never seen it done... though it has become quite simple. My CPU right now is a E6420, its great for OCing but I never bothered.
On July 14 2010 15:18 R04R wrote: 4770 will be a bit of a bottleneck though. What games will you be playing?
I play my fair share of games, but not Crysis tier. But I would say I need a upgrade later. The 4770 is fine for now, best to replace my ancient E6420 and the mobo that doesnt even support PCI-E 2.0.
Not that it really matters, the 4770 still runs fine on just good old PCI-E.
Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC (still went this one since the one fragkrag suggested was only 5€ cheaper) Intel® Core™ i5-750 - cause of the comments I went from X6-> i5, apparently better for games and about 90€ cheaper. MSI P55-GD65 - dont know nothing about motherboards, this one seemed fine - Tell me if you have better suggestions XFX XPS 850W Black Edition - as recommended by FragKrag Antec Twelve Hundred - Big Tower, got excellent reviews everywhere Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB - are there faster/better ones than this? Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit LG DH-16NS (=13,49€ dvd drive)
+90€ for Windows 7
What do you guys think?? Thx for the help already given, appreciate it, I think I already have a better AND cheaper system than before
Not sure why you went with the Antec 1200, but it isn't a terrible choice for a case.
As for the hard drive, the Western Digital Caviar Blacks have the fastest access times of the HDDs available (excluding the 10k RPM Velociraptor), but the Samsung F3 1TB generally has much faster sequential read/write.
ok thx fragkrag, I think I'm gonna get the samsung hdd then and I think my setup is pretty much complete then. Motherboard is fine?
On July 15 2010 02:04 Disregard wrote: Im hoping I could get Windows 7 for free since Im a CS major.
What bugs me is that I already have Win7 on my laptop, so I find it really stupid that I have to buy windows 7 again since it was preinstalled and I didnt get a CD with it.
On July 15 2010 02:51 7mk wrote: ok thx fragkrag, I think I'm gonna get the samsung hdd then and I think my setup is pretty much complete then. Motherboard is fine?
On July 15 2010 02:04 Disregard wrote: Im hoping I could get Windows 7 for free since Im a CS major.
What bugs me is that I already have Win7 on my laptop, so I find it really stupid that I have to buy windows 7 again since it was preinstalled and I didnt get a CD with it.
The GD65 is a fairly solid motherboard that has some good features and SLI/Crossfire support. Really can't go wrong with it.
Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC (still went this one since the one fragkrag suggested was only 5€ cheaper) Intel® Core™ i5-750 - cause of the comments I went from X6-> i5, apparently better for games and about 90€ cheaper. MSI P55-GD65 - dont know nothing about motherboards, this one seemed fine - Tell me if you have better suggestions XFX XPS 850W Black Edition - as recommended by FragKrag Antec Twelve Hundred - Big Tower, got excellent reviews everywhere Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB - are there faster/better ones than this? Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit LG DH-16NS (=13,49€ dvd drive)
+90€ for Windows 7
What do you guys think?? Thx for the help already given, appreciate it, I think I already have a better AND cheaper system than before
I don't know if you plan to have multiple graficcards in there, but i think the power supply is overkill. You don't ened 850W with that pc, 500W would be sufficient. E.g. the Cooler Master Silent Pro M500 or the Enermax Pro82+ II 525W. Those have 80Plus and 80Plus bronce instead of the 80Plus silver that the XFX has, but the difference is not that big and if you don't need 850W certainly not worth the really big price difference.
Sapphire HD5850 TOXIC (still went this one since the one fragkrag suggested was only 5€ cheaper) Intel® Core™ i5-750 - cause of the comments I went from X6-> i5, apparently better for games and about 90€ cheaper. MSI P55-GD65 - dont know nothing about motherboards, this one seemed fine - Tell me if you have better suggestions XFX XPS 850W Black Edition - as recommended by FragKrag Antec Twelve Hundred - Big Tower, got excellent reviews everywhere Western Digital WD6400AADS 640 GB - are there faster/better ones than this? Corsair DIMM 8 GB DDR3-1333 Quad-Kit LG DH-16NS (=13,49€ dvd drive)
+90€ for Windows 7
What do you guys think?? Thx for the help already given, appreciate it, I think I already have a better AND cheaper system than before
I don't know if you plan to have multiple graficcards in there, but i think the power supply is overkill. You don't ened 850W with that pc, 500W would be sufficient. E.g. the Cooler Master Silent Pro M500 or the Enermax Pro82+ II 525W. Those have 80Plus and 80Plus bronce instead of the 80Plus silver that the XFX has, but the difference is not that big and if don't need 850W certainly not worth the really big price difference.
yeah I plan on getting another HD5850 at some point in the future... would you still think that 850W is too much or is it ok then?
Many universities allow students to get Microsoft software free through MSDNAA, you might want to look it up just to make sure.
I think 750W, maybe even 650 is enough for two 5850s, but it's always nice to have some headroom, especially since power supplies are most efficient around 50% load.
5850 under crossfire doesn't draw that much, crossfire tends to only use like 60-80% of the gpu nvidia tends to nearly double the draw needed.
You can crossfire 5850's under a good 650w psu or a decient 750w psu.
If i recalled correctly 5850 TDP is 160? so at max even it only does 320w so the rest of your system can deal with the rest.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5850-review-crossfire/9 Radeon HD 5850 CrossfireX A second card requires you to add another 170 Watts. You need a 650+ Watt power supply unit if you use it in a high-end system. That power supply needs to have (in total accumulated) at least 55~60 Amps available on the +12 volts rails.
And that's something that's likely only going to matter under a thing like furmark.
TDP is the amout of power that is wasted through heat. they are completely different.
Antec 1200 has like 6 fans and if he plans on adding other hard drives, the 850W will come in handy. 750W should be more than enough, but I don't think 650W will account for any overclocking/extra hdds.
And in general, stay away from Enermax PSUs. They may be some of the best, but they are so overpriced that it nulls any advantage. Even the highest end Seasonic X-750 is cheaper than an Enermax 750. Corsair is cheaper too generally.
On July 15 2010 04:10 FragKrag wrote: TDP is not the amount of power it sucks up
TDP is the amout of power that is wasted through heat. they are completely different.
Antec 1200 has like 6 fans and if he plans on adding other hard drives, the 850W will come in handy. 750W should be more than enough, but I don't think 650W will account for any overclocking/extra hdds.
And in general, stay away from Enermax PSUs. They may be some of the best, but they are so overpriced that it nulls any advantage. Even the highest end Seasonic X-750 is cheaper than an Enermax 750. Corsair is cheaper too generally.
I'm pretty sure I'm never gonna get another HDD (except for the 1TB External I already have, that one will barely ever be plugged in though) but I'll most likely overclock. so I guess I'll get the 750W XFX XPS?
On July 15 2010 04:10 FragKrag wrote: TDP is not the amount of power it sucks up
TDP is the amout of power that is wasted through heat. they are completely different.
Antec 1200 has like 6 fans and if he plans on adding other hard drives, the 850W will come in handy. 750W should be more than enough, but I don't think 650W will account for any overclocking/extra hdds.
And in general, stay away from Enermax PSUs. They may be some of the best, but they are so overpriced that it nulls any advantage. Even the highest end Seasonic X-750 is cheaper than an Enermax 750. Corsair is cheaper too generally.
you are wrong and right
160 TDP is actually called 160 watt TDP meaning it is designed to displace 160 watts of power. Although most times TDP doesn't mean the max power the thing can draw it usually does mean around the power it will draw under avg usage(in other words it's designed thermal displacement, which for a gpu is around the max draw) which is a good way to measure power requirements on gpus.
Although it's not actually the wattage drawn by the gpu it is around the intended wattage.
On July 15 2010 04:10 FragKrag wrote: TDP is not the amount of power it sucks up
TDP is the amout of power that is wasted through heat. they are completely different.
Antec 1200 has like 6 fans and if he plans on adding other hard drives, the 850W will come in handy. 750W should be more than enough, but I don't think 650W will account for any overclocking/extra hdds.
And in general, stay away from Enermax PSUs. They may be some of the best, but they are so overpriced that it nulls any advantage. Even the highest end Seasonic X-750 is cheaper than an Enermax 750. Corsair is cheaper too generally.
I'm pretty sure I'm never gonna get another HDD (except for the 1TB External I already have, that one will barely ever be plugged in though) but I'll most likely overclock. so I guess I'll get the 750W XFX XPS?
Yeah that should be more than adequate.
semantics TDP Power draw correlations are wrong all the time, and it should be a number that is ignored unless you want to know how much heat it gives off. It does not mean the average power it would draw under average usage either. It's the power that it would dissipate under average usage.
Also one more question: Do I not need an additional CPU cooler? Basically on alternate.de when I select a CPU (i5 750) it automatically checks the CPU category AND the CPU cooler category, meaning that I have both. But is that enough? Might I need some sort of additional CPU cooler if I wanna overclock?
On July 15 2010 06:38 nineninja9 wrote: That motherboard has onboard LAN support, though if you want to use wireless you'll have to buy an adapter of some sort.
My build was pretty cheap, and well worth it. Almost everything was purchased from NewEgg.
Antec 300 Black Steel ATX MidTower Case $54.95 CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready $109.99 G.SKILL 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM $169.99 GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard $209.99 Intel Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor $288.99 ^If you're near a Micro Center, you can get it in-store pickup for 200$^ ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 7 Pro Rev.2 92mm Fluid Dynamic CPU Cooler $39.98 ATI Radeon HD 5670 $79.99 (Need to upgrade, this is the bottleneck of the system.)
Overall price was around 1,000$. (A tad cheaper with the processor deal)
Hey guys, I've been reading through all the posts and still am not 100% sure in what I want for a new PC and I hope you guys can help me out with some suggestions
Basically, this is what I'm looking for: - Gaming PC (SC2, LoL, CS:S) - Streaming capabilities for said games - Reliable (aka, no heating issues and prob not looking to OC, but am open to it if it's worth it)
Budget: $500-$1000 (The reason I give a range is if a much better option is available for a slightly higher price then I'll opt for that)
Also, can anyone recommend a good monitor that has hdmi/comonent input so I can use my ps3 with it?
This will run SC2 on Ultra at any resolution below 1680x1050 and give you plenty of headroom for streaming. Almost definitely capable of Ultra at 1920x1080 as well. However, if you are playing at around 1920x1080 you will probably want to spend an extra $20 on a 1GB version of the GTX 460.
Windows7 not included. The motherboard was chosen because of price, so if you want to xfire/sli or use usb3/sata2 you should spend an extra $15 on a better one. Shipping on most items are free so shipping comes out to about $5, and promo code EMCYVYW52 saves you another $10 on the monito. It also comes with a $10 gift card which basically translates into a free hdmi cable if you don't already have one.
If you can't tell I was trying to keep it under $1000, but again since I didn't include windows I somewhat cheated.
This will run SC2 on Ultra at any resolution below 1680x1050 and give you plenty of headroom for streaming. Almost definitely capable of Ultra at 1920x1080 as well. However, if you are playing at around 1920x1080 you will probably want to spend an extra $20 on a 1GB version of the GTX 460.
Thanks for the prompt reply Frag! Anyways, if I was to sink in $1000 at least, do you think it would be worth it price wise? I like the build you gave me though and I'll do some more research b4 i go ahead and buy the parts.
If you were to sink an extra $150 into your build, it would let you get a better heatsink for overclocking, and probably a better GPU. Depending on what heatsink/fan configuration you chose.\
You could also sink $40 or so into a 6 core, though I don't recommend it for your purposes.
haha, I wont be doing too much encoding so I think I'm fine with the suggested CPU. Ill post a final build later today just to make sure everything looks good.
Hello TL my current computer basically crapped itself out and I am wondering if you guys could help me and answer a few questions. I looked at the super build computer thread and saw some of the computers but have absolutely no idea what I am doing so I was super confused at it. What are the necessary parts to build a computer for scratch like I know you need a graphics card a motherboard a mobo and a ton of other shit 2. What are some of the better computer parts my budget is around 800ish and im looking for something that wont really have to much trouble running current gen games at a mediumish setting. Thanks and sorry I know this probably comes up a lot here.
I just read it a couple hours ago and I thought it was super helpful for beginner builders even though the original intent of the post was to test computer build specs against SCII.
You should be able to differentiate what information isn't needed and what is needed to shorten your read if you feel it's too tedious.
nas3 if it's your first time, a few youtube videos + around 3-4 hours will be good enough. It's not hard at all if you read the direction THOROUGHLY and don't proceed before you FULLY know what you are doing.
Computer cases follow specifications that indicate what and what cannot fit in them. The two largest things (that are usually afflicted by case size) in your computer will probably be the motherboard and the graphics card.
Motherboards follow different size forms. Most common are micro-ATX and ATX. The case specifications should tell what motherboard sizes it will fit.
The graphics card is also pretty large for the higher-end models. They usually give the length of the card and then you compare that with either user reviews detailing how well their cards fit or the dimensions of the case.
Building a computer is piss easy these days. Literally plug and play (and screw) and install drivers. You have to be careful where and how you touch the hardware but really there's no fiddly computer jumpers to deal with anymore and any good motherboard will take care of you automatically.
As FragKrag said, just watch a few youtube videos and after your first time installing hardware it'll be easy.
Lol, what do you want your computer to be able to do? Do you want something that can be easily upgraded later? Or the best possible deal to do what you want right now? And with that include a definite budget. It won't have to meet that budget but it will help us gauge what it might turn out to be.
If you don't know much about computers I would recommend putting how much you want to spend, and you want to be able to do with your PC + any other requirements ("I want to download loads of porn", "I want to be able to stream sc2", etc).
We can put up a list of things that would be good for you : )
If you want to build your own computer it's going to take some reading (pre-building) and some reading (motherboard manual probably) while doing so.
Ok, so this is my *final* list (thanks to Frag and nineninja), what do you guys think? [ Is OC'ing this rig worth it? If so, what else am I looking at getting like cooling? How does OC'ing affect the lifetime of the system?]
I don't think it's needed for your setup. x4 gets a bit hotter than the core i's but it's nothing to worry about. GTX 460 doesn't get hot either and should be fine with stock fans
EDIT: If you're a college student you can save money on Windows 7.
On July 15 2010 14:26 FragKrag wrote: no, it's not worth it at all :/
I'd say it's worth it if you 1 have a bad case, 2 want a silent pc.
I have built near 100% passive computers in the past that make no noticeable noise unless you fire up the hdd's or use the dvd drive and i can mitigate the hdd's making noise.
Passive psu's cost way too much
but a aftermarket cpu cooler for 20-30 bucks can significantly lower the noise coming from your computer, and also lower the heat on your cpu.
It's just not as useful as someone who does oc.
I like to think quiet pc's are like phsyx or eyefinity you wont miss if you don't have it but once you go to it you never want to go back.
I would personally wait until some 1gb 460s are in stock again, but if you really need it now a 768mb is fine too. That being said, it is a 1920x1080 monitor, so that extra vram would help greatly.
On July 15 2010 13:44 FragKrag wrote: You can get a better, cheaper GTS 250 from MSI.
You are pairing an outdated Intel motheroard with an outdated AMD CPU
You are buying an external HDD instead of an internal HDD
so essentially throw out everything you have so far and start over.
Updated thanks for Fragkrag what im looking for in this is that it will be able to play some of the current gen games eg starcraft 2 MWF2 and stuff at a nice medium quality rate
Im about 100$ under my budget so if there is room to improve things that would end up making a nice difference im all for it. I want to know if all the parts are compatible and if it can meet my requirements. Sorry for being a total noob at this
The build that KulSsunG just bought is pretty much perfect if you take out the Windows 7 and Monitor.
+ another SATA Cable.
All these builds being posted... usually you get 1 sata cable from the Mobo. That's enough for either optical or HD. So aren't they still lacking an extra sata cable?
Yeah I could take out the sound card I just read some thingy and it said that I NEEDED to get a sound card but if I really dont im not some soundwhore and all that stuff is compatible and looks good thanks a bunch frag
With tax of 62.20 and shipping of 1.99 Grand total is $818.12 a bit over but you could replace the ram with a less "flashy" version like this or this with EMCYVYW28 promo code <-actually this one is better than the one in your build so might as well switch it.
Why spend $50 more on a power supply or $20 more on a motherboard if you aren't going to use all of the features? You could spend it on something that provides more immediate benefit. A 5850 1GB is better than a 460 768MB, though it's overkill for SC2.
That being said, if you are planning on upgrading in the future, better options have been posted.
On July 15 2010 18:11 haduken wrote: So GTX460 is the new bang for buck huh?
Its so good that its made the 465, 470, and 480 useless. Its cheap, small, quiet, doesn't draw a stupid amount of power, isn't very hot, performs well, overclocks well, and in a few cases has nearly 100% SLI scaling (double FPS which means it crushes the 5970 and 480 for only $400).
Sweet, was waiting for a nvidia card. All my friends with 5770 had nothing but trouble with stability + needed something that has good Linux support as well.
Make sure you get a good 1gb version. It seems like 768mb is a bit of a bottleneck for some games, especially at higher resolutions. At a $20 premium it's more than worth it.
I'd say this looks like a good bet (that heatsink fan is huuuuge and looks like it actually works), but there's no reviews for it yet so don't take my word.
There's an article on it on hardwaresecrets.com if you search that video card on google, but you can't access it yet I'm assuming it's still being written.
Overall the impact of overclocking is heavily game dependent. Core overclocking favors games that are ROP/shader limited and has little effectiveness on games that are limited by the total available RAM or by memory bandwidth. For this reason out of our subset of games core overclocking was most effective on Battleforge and Bad Company 2, while only moderately effective on Crysis and STALKER. On Crysis and STALKER overclocking was at best only marginally more useful than having a 1GB card.
The big winner here with respect to performance is the Zotac card, thanks almost exclusively to its 1GB configuration, affording additional RAM/L2/ROPs. Of our 768MB cards the Asus comes ahead most of the time as expected thanks to its greater core overclock, but it does manage to fall to the overclocked EVGA card under Crysis where the latter’s greater stock memory clock clearly offers an advantage.
Currently the sweet spot would look to be a 1GB card with a lesser overclock, which isn’t great news for the overclocking-focused EVGA and Asus cards in this roundup. While they are cheaper than a full 1GB card, they still carry a price over MSRP which cuts in to the gap between 768MB and 1GB cards. Ultimately the additional RAM/L2/ROPs more than makes up for the higher overclocks the 768MB cards can attain in most situations.
Yeah, according to the benchmarks, at 1920x1200 you need more physical RAM to keep up. Overclocking doesn't compensate well enough.
You're reading his comment wrong. Many games are not as demanding on the memory as Crysis and STALKER and are more intensive in what the GPU actually has to do. Memory bandwidth and total RAM are also two different things. Memory bandwidth is actually helped by overclocking the memory of the card.
Its so good that its made the 465, 470, and 480 useless. Its cheap, small, quiet, doesn't draw a stupid amount of power, isn't very hot, performs well, overclocks well, and in a few cases has nearly 100% SLI scaling (double FPS which means it crushes the 5970 and 480 for only $400).
Let's not try to overhype this card. It may be the best thing since the 5850, but the GTX 470 is still a very valid card (considering how cheap those things go for now). The GTX 465 was obsolete the second it came out :>
Hey guys, looking the best low-profile video card that would allow me to run SC2 on lowest settings but at optimal performance.. Trying to spend around $50 if Absolutely necessary I can go up to around $100 (I only use this computer during breaks at work and when I'm working late so It doesn't have to be the best).. Also please note that this rig only has a 250w Power supply so that would be an issue to consider.
On July 16 2010 06:01 Easy772 wrote: Hey guys, looking the best low-profile video card that would allow me to run SC2 on lowest settings but at optimal performance.. Trying to spend around $50 if Absolutely necessary I can go up to around $100 (I only use this computer during breaks at work and when I'm working late so It doesn't have to be the best).. Also please note that this rig only has a 250w Power supply so that would be an issue to consider.
Pretty much any current video card can handle SC2 well on lowest settings. My three year old laptop with integrated graphics does just fine, so anything you get nowadays should have no problems.
On July 16 2010 06:01 Easy772 wrote: Hey guys, looking the best low-profile video card that would allow me to run SC2 on lowest settings but at optimal performance.. Trying to spend around $50 if Absolutely necessary I can go up to around $100 (I only use this computer during breaks at work and when I'm working late so It doesn't have to be the best).. Also please note that this rig only has a 250w Power supply so that would be an issue to consider.
Pretty much any current video card can handle SC2 well on lowest settings. My three year old laptop with integrated graphics does just fine, so anything you get nowadays should have no problems.
Awesome, thanks! So what low-profile card (~ $50) would give me the best "bang for my buck" sort of speak.
I'm not exactly sure, seeing as how I haven't owned a desktop computer in almost a decade, but desktop graphics capabilities are generally better than those of laptops, so you should have no trouble finding something to suit your needs. Hopefully someone else can give you a specific recommendation.
On July 16 2010 06:11 Empyrean wrote: I'm not exactly sure, seeing as how I haven't owned a desktop computer in almost a decade, but desktop graphics capabilities are generally better than those of laptops, so you should have no trouble finding something to suit your needs. Hopefully someone else can give you a specific recommendation.
Yeah, I'm probably ordering it tonight, so maybe I'll just check out some reviews.
I'm wondering if I will get a noticeable improvement (i.e. be able to play sc2 on at least medium and world of warcraft on the settings I want with a good frame rate) by upgrading my video card.
Current performance: Currently 3v3/4v4 late game in sc2 even on low settings causes big problems.. 1v1 and 2v2 I have no problems running on medium except if carrier mother ship comes out.
In wow i get about 25 fps in dalaran.. 40ish outside of a city.. but in 25 man raids boss fights it drops down to 6 fps (that has forced me to pretty much only run 10 man raids to avoid the issue)
Current stats: Acer AM5100-E5402A OS: win7 64bit Processor: AMD Phenom 9500 quad Ram: 4GB DDR2 nVidia GeForce 8600 GS (OEM version of an 8600.. I did run some program to tell me the specs awhile ago but I forget exactly what they were. basically its a slower underclock card)
Question: Would upgrading the vid card let me run 30+ fps in 25 man raids and let me play 3v3 games in sc2??? Or would the system just bottle neck somewhere else.. I figure new vid card and psu to power the new card and I would be good to go. And what card should I get, that does what I want but is not overkill.. My Goal is to run sc2 and wow smoothly for another year or maybe two and then get a new computer.
I would suggest getting an Nvidia GTS 250 512MB for around $100 if you want a card that will get you over. If you want to spend the full $150-200, then you can get an ATi HD 5770 or an Nvidia GTX 460.
yeah I was looking at the 9600 gso as well.. For sure this will run with a 250w power supply? I'm looking on Amazon because I get free shipping from them
TDP for 9600 GSO 84~90W TDP for 4650 48W TDP for 4670 59W
I got all my stuff I ordered today... For my CM 690 II I could put in the tool-less pins for the hard drives on the... side where you connect the sata cable, but I can't/don't know how to put the pins on the other side. should I be fine or how do I figure this out?
yeah but they have these rubber "grommets" that keep them in place. I can't find out how to install both the front and back. I can only install either the front, or the back, but not both.
Never built inside a 690, but I did build inside a 922 which should use the same hdd system. I don't remember any grommets and I just slid the HDDs in. I don't really think you need them...
For those people looking to buy a $200 card, the GTX 470 can be gotten for $205 out-the-door about now (free shipping, no tax in most states). I went for the GTX 460 myself because I plan to eventually SLI it + I wanted a shorter card, but the GTX 470 is pretty decent for $205.
Now the optical drive holes on the sides don't align correctly with the locking latch on the cm 690... If I want them to align the drive sticks out about an inch.
On July 16 2010 12:00 R04R wrote: Now the optical drive holes on the sides don't align correctly with the locking latch on the cm 690... If I want them to align the drive sticks out about an inch.
Not too important if you're like me the tool less option works just fine not as good and probably produces more noise but i rare use my dvd drive.
People really need to stop jumping for the AS5 at every stop. (I realize he didn't choose AS5)
Tuniq TX-2 and Arctic Cooling MX-2 both perform around the same (if not better) and don't need the long curing time. And they aren't capacitive
A lot of the time your money is better spent on a better heatsink anyways. Higher end heatsinks come with higher end compound (H50 comes with Shin-Etsu, Megahalem comes with their own high end rebranded OEM)
Might as well post my build. If you're patient enough and collect parts over months at bargain prices, you can save upwards of hundreds of dollars. Note all prices are after tax/shipping.
Total Cost w/o monitor: $1,011 Total Cost w/ monitor: $1,481
Note: I probably could have saved like $30-$40 waiting for a better deal on the GTX 460 as well as an additional $10-$20 on the PSU (they drop down to $60 sometimes). I could have also gotten a i7 930, MSI X58 mobo for like $280 ($30 more) but they ran out of stock at Fry's Also, no optical drive because I already had a USB DVD-RW lying around.
Links to deals below. I'm not trying to advertise slickdeals, but that is where I get most of my deals from. + Show Spoiler +
On July 16 2010 12:05 FragKrag wrote: People really need to stop jumping for the AS5 at every stop. (I realize he didn't choose AS5)
Tuniq TX-2 and Arctic Cooling MX-2 both perform around the same (if not better) and don't need the long curing time. And they aren't capacitive
A lot of the time your money is better spent on a better heatsink anyways. Higher end heatsinks come with higher end compound (H50 comes with Shin-Etsu, Megahalem comes with their own high end rebranded OEM)
MX-2 and TX-2 don't have any cure time if i recall correctly and cool better then as5, the TX-3 and MX-3 cooled even better but had 1 problem, they were hard as hell to apply. I've only done the MX-3 but i had to warm it up in my pocket for like half an hour before it became plyable enough to even try to apply.
The TX-4 and MX-4 have even better cooling performance only beat out by some super hard to apply japannese brand which is hard to get. But the mx/tx-4 have much better application then the 3 did according to reviews i've read.
Currently i'm using IC diamond 7 tim which frankly does a great job, if it only is a bit hard to apply.
Also being non capacitive is what i love, i have a copper modded laptop and frankly i wouldn't put as5 on anything for that laptop. I also replace my NB and SB cooling on my computers ususally and that again calls for a non capacitive tim. So does my gpu but just not as much.
semantics that hard to apply Japanese brand would be Shin-Etsu. Shin-Etsu provides some really thick thermal pastes. Corsair has a certain kind (I think it's like G7521 or something) stock with the H50.
Yeah, but MX-4 and TX-4 tend to be more expensive and less available. I didn't even know Newegg had MX-4 or TX-4 in stock since I could never find MX-3.
Yup shin-etsu, from forums i've read around it's even harder to use the mx-3 which i find hard to believe because my experience with the mx-3 is that you have to heat it up else it's like trying to put clay on your cpu.
Might as well post my build. If you're patient enough and collect parts over months at bargain prices, you can save upwards of hundreds of dollars. Note all prices are after tax/shipping.
Total Cost w/o monitor: $1,011 Total Cost w/ monitor: $1,481
Might as well post my build. If you're patient enough and collect parts over months at bargain prices, you can save upwards of hundreds of dollars. Note all prices are after tax/shipping.
Total Cost w/o monitor: $1,011 Total Cost w/ monitor: $1,481
You seem to be spending a great deal of money on stuff that, in my opinion, isn't a good use of money. For example, why is so much of your budget spent on a monitor, especially if you won't even be able to run games at high settings? Why are you spending so much on a 2TB storage drive, especially if it's a boot drive? Also, the Case/PSU is somewhat questionable.
Here's a build that will give you better performance for the about same price, though much of the extra money came through the use of smaller monitor. Personally, I'd rather be able to play Crysis on max on a 21" monitor instead of struggling to play even SC2 on high on a 28" monitor, but that is up to preference. There's also room in the budget for the mx518, but it was sold out on newegg.
I would trust an OCZ PSU over a no-name that came in a case any day. Just because it isn't Seasonic doesn't mean it's worthless, as you can see with a little googling. I personally find hardwaresecret's PSU reviews to be the most reliable, and they seem to have no problem with it.
And like I said, the monitor size is up for debate, but I would much rather be able to play games on high settings on a smaller size monitor than mediocre settings on a larger monitor with lower pixel density. Again though, that is my preference, as are many of the recommendations in this thread.
EDIT: I just realized, he has an ATX motherboard and a microATX case. That's probably a slightly bigger deal than which graphics card or PSU he gets.
Wow that is a pretty nice deal, it comes out to about $20 cheaper than what I had with comparable components. Well that doesn't include the rebate on the OCZ, but rebates are always pretty iffy. Odd that they don't include a power cable though.
1 x ($23.99) DVD BRN ASUS | DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS% - OEM $23.99 1 x ($59.99) CPU COOL TR|TRUE BLACK 120REV.C R $59.99 1 x ($19.99) FAN SCYTHE|S-FLEX SFF21F(1600rpM) R $19.99 1 x ($4.99) HDMI CABLES UNLIMITED|PCM-2295-06 R $4.99 1 x ($98.99) MEM 2Gx2|GSKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL $98.99 1 x ($154.99) CASE ANTEC|P183 BK RT $154.99 1 x ($5.98) CABLE NIPPON| SATA3L-1M RT $5.98 1 x ($199.99) MB MSI 890FXA-GD70 AM3 R $199.99 1 x ($294.99) VGA XFX|HD-585X-ZAFC HD5850 1G RT $294.99 1 x ($119.99) PSU ANTEC|CP-850 850W RT $119.99 1 x ($159.99) CPU AMD|PH II X4 955BE 3.2G AM3 $159.99 1 x ($94.99) HD 1T|WD 7K 64M SATAIII WD1002FAEX - OEM $94.99 1 x ($99.99) WIN HOME PREM 7 64-BIT ENG 1PK DSP - OEM $99.99 1 x ($-10.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #437534$-10.00 1 x ($-30.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #430450$-30.00 1 x ($-5.39) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #409138$-5.39 1 x ($-35.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #432049$-35.00 1 x ($0.00) Newegg Promotional Gift Card(The total amount of Gift Cards: $10.00)
Total cost after shipping was: $1279.38
There are a few mail in rebates too, so I think it'll be closer to 1225$
1 x ($23.99) DVD BRN ASUS | DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS% - OEM $23.99 1 x ($59.99) CPU COOL TR|TRUE BLACK 120REV.C R $59.99 1 x ($19.99) FAN SCYTHE|S-FLEX SFF21F(1600rpM) R $19.99 1 x ($4.99) HDMI CABLES UNLIMITED|PCM-2295-06 R $4.99 1 x ($98.99) MEM 2Gx2|GSKILL F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL $98.99 1 x ($154.99) CASE ANTEC|P183 BK RT $154.99 1 x ($5.98) CABLE NIPPON| SATA3L-1M RT $5.98 1 x ($199.99) MB MSI 890FXA-GD70 AM3 R $199.99 1 x ($294.99) VGA XFX|HD-585X-ZAFC HD5850 1G RT $294.99 1 x ($119.99) PSU ANTEC|CP-850 850W RT $119.99 1 x ($159.99) CPU AMD|PH II X4 955BE 3.2G AM3 $159.99 1 x ($94.99) HD 1T|WD 7K 64M SATAIII WD1002FAEX - OEM $94.99 1 x ($99.99) WIN HOME PREM 7 64-BIT ENG 1PK DSP - OEM $99.99 1 x ($-10.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #437534$-10.00 1 x ($-30.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #430450$-30.00 1 x ($-5.39) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #409138$-5.39 1 x ($-35.00) DISCOUNT FOR COMBO #432049$-35.00 1 x ($0.00) Newegg Promotional Gift Card(The total amount of Gift Cards: $10.00)
Total cost after shipping was: $1279.38
There are a few mail in rebates too, so I think it'll be closer to 1225$
I've been thinking of buying the Phenom II X4 955 BE, but I just wanted to know how good is the stock heatsink and fan, and whether or not it's worth to buy a better one.
On July 17 2010 14:40 Lanyth wrote: I've been thinking of buying the Phenom II X4 955 BE, but I just wanted to know how good is the stock heatsink and fan, and whether or not it's worth to buy a better one.
If you don't plan on overclocking it isn't worth it. Even if you plan on overclocking, the HSF that comes with AMD BE CPUs is one of the best stock HSFs on the market (although this doesn't say too much). You can probably get 400MHz off of it without extra cooling.
On July 17 2010 14:40 Lanyth wrote: I've been thinking of buying the Phenom II X4 955 BE, but I just wanted to know how good is the stock heatsink and fan, and whether or not it's worth to buy a better one.
If you don't plan on overclocking it isn't worth it. Even if you plan on overclocking, the HSF that comes with AMD BE CPUs is one of the best stock HSFs on the market (although this doesn't say too much). You can probably get 400MHz off of it without extra cooling.
Thanks. I wasn't planning on overclocking so I probably won't be getting another HSF.
Updating drivers and stuff for everything. Hope I don't miss anything.
Edit: After playing around with the BIOS settings it seems like my 3rd core is faulty =/. Sure I could enable it but I won't get past Windows starting up.
I guess I'm a 3-core kinda guy now :3
Do I have to overclock the CPU through BIOS? There's OC Genie Lite, Easy OC, and manual OC. So many options I'm confused which to touch.
Yeah I overclocked through BIOS. Thing is OC Genie Lite does it all for you. I just enabled that through BIOS, restarted, then it got bumped up from 200 x 16.0 to 227 x 16.0. Now I'm at 3.648Ghz or something along that. I don't know how safe it is to go any further manually, so I'll just leave it at that as I'm content.
OC genie depending how old the variant is is pretty decient at finding max oc, it def wont do as good as manual tweaking of every value but it gets close within usually 200-400mhz
I'm looking to get a new desktop for anywhere between $800-$1k, and since I know next to nothing about computer hardware I turn to TL for help :D. As far as what I want to do with it goes, there aren't a lot of super high-end programs that I need to run (ie. I don't need "computer that can run SC2 on ultra"), but I mean if it's doable in that price range without sacrificing much else that would definitely be fine too. Of course being a nerd, a decent video card is still necessary for those times I feel like playing some new asian MMO grindfest or whatever. This will just be a home computer for me to play games and homework and all that other standard junk.
So if anybody could help me out with a build or point to one earlier in the thread that's similar (I tried reading through this thread and just drowned in technobabble) that'd be great .
On July 18 2010 10:39 Kyuukyuu wrote: I'm looking to get a new desktop for anywhere between $800-$1k, and since I know next to nothing about computer hardware I turn to TL for help :D. As far as what I want to do with it goes, there aren't a lot of super high-end programs that I need to run (ie. I don't need "computer that can run SC2 on ultra"), but I mean if it's doable in that price range without sacrificing much else that would definitely be fine too. Of course being a nerd, a decent video card is still necessary for those times I feel like playing some new asian MMO grindfest or whatever. This will just be a home computer for me to play games and homework and all that other standard junk.
So if anybody could help me out with a build or point to one earlier in the thread that's similar (I tried reading through this thread and just drowned in technobabble) that'd be great .
sounds like this build would probably do you best, it was posted a couple of days ago
On July 15 2010 16:05 R04R wrote: ^Build posted above with GTX 460
With tax of 62.20 and shipping of 1.99 Grand total is $818.12 a bit over but you could replace the ram with a less "flashy" version like this or this with EMCYVYW28 promo code <-actually this one is better than the one in your build so might as well switch it.
I endorse that build. It's been a couple days, but normally prices on Newegg don't change every day, so many of those components will still cost the same. (I haven't seen the Phenom II X4 955 change in price in a long time).
Hey guys, I'm currently working on building my first rig. Compared to the average person I know a good amount about the hardware I'm looking at, but I'm by no means an expert. I've been researching a ton and at a point my brain just sort of overloads, this being one of those points.
I'm also looking at another fan, but I would order this one after I had everything else, many reviews said to check the dimensions of leftover space to make sure it would fit. Thermaltake SpinQ CPU Cooler $55
With the fan and without one very obvious part total is: $755 before tax
What I'm looking for with this computer is to build a powerful gaming rig, because the laptop I use to play games now basically tops out at SC2 on the lowest settings. Unfortunately for my wallet I'm also pretty committed to getting an i7-930, so I'm not going to be able to take advantage of AMD's more budget friendly processors.
And to make matters worse, I'm having a bit of a crisis over what GPU I should get. Had I been about a day faster, I would have been able to get a GTX 470 for under 200, but I missed the deal and am lost. My original plan was to grab 2 5770s and jam them in there, but I'm not sure anymore. I'd like to keep the GPU price around 200, I'll probably try to get a double of whatever I get around Christmas. So my question to you is: what Video Card should I buy?
My requirements: Preferably below 250$, lower is better HDMI output, as I'll be playing on a TV most (read: all) of the time. DirectX 11, because I want it
If you guys could give me a hand deciding on my Video Card and if anyone has any ideas as to how I could shave a few dollars off my total, that would be much appreciated. Although I've done plenty of price reducing since I first started.
Ditch the Thermaltake SpinQ. It sucks. I would suggest buying a cheaper heatsink (or not buying one at all) and investing that money in a quality 650-750W PSU since you will be putting a large load on your PSU.
The PSU that comes with that case is probably not very good. For PSUs you have to find a reputable brand because one shortage and all your parts could be fried.
Hey guys, I'm currently working on building my first rig. Compared to the average person I know a good amount about the hardware I'm looking at, but I'm by no means an expert. I've been researching a ton and at a point my brain just sort of overloads, this being one of those points.
I'm also looking at another fan, but I would order this one after I had everything else, many reviews said to check the dimensions of leftover space to make sure it would fit. Thermaltake SpinQ CPU Cooler $55
With the fan and without one very obvious part total is: $755 before tax
What I'm looking for with this computer is to build a powerful gaming rig, because the laptop I use to play games now basically tops out at SC2 on the lowest settings. Unfortunately for my wallet I'm also pretty committed to getting an i7-930, so I'm not going to be able to take advantage of AMD's more budget friendly processors.
And to make matters worse, I'm having a bit of a crisis over what GPU I should get. Had I been about a day faster, I would have been able to get a GTX 470 for under 200, but I missed the deal and am lost. My original plan was to grab 2 5770s and jam them in there, but I'm not sure anymore. I'd like to keep the GPU price around 200, I'll probably try to get a double of whatever I get around Christmas. So my question to you is: what Video Card should I buy?
My requirements: Preferably below 250$, lower is better HDMI output, as I'll be playing on a TV most (read: all) of the time. DirectX 11, because I want it
If you guys could give me a hand deciding on my Video Card and if anyone has any ideas as to how I could shave a few dollars off my total, that would be much appreciated. Although I've done plenty of price reducing since I first started.
You can get an i7 930 for $200 from Microcenter. You can also cut some money by getting just 4gbs of RAM for now. If you really ned to you can add another 2gb later in time.
Ditch the Thermaltake SpinQ. It sucks. I would suggest buying a cheaper heatsink (or not buying one at all) and investing that money in a quality 650-750W PSU since you will be putting a large load on your PSU.
Thanks for the quick response, that was the direction I was leaning towards. The only reservation I had on the 460 is that I couldn't find a 1GB one made by a manufacturer I recognized, and it was a bit unsettling for me. A bit deeper of a search and most of my worries are put to rest.
Also, you say I should put that money in a quality 650-750W PSU. Is there something wrong with the one I have listed? I'm not very familiar with PSUs as a whole, any advice would be appreciated.
Ditch the Thermaltake SpinQ. It sucks. I would suggest buying a cheaper heatsink (or not buying one at all) and investing that money in a quality 650-750W PSU since you will be putting a large load on your PSU.
Thanks for the quick response, that was the direction I was leaning towards. The only reservation I had on the 460 is that I couldn't find a 1GB one made by a manufacturer I recognized, and it was a bit unsettling for me. A bit deeper of a search and most of my worries are put to rest.
Also, you say I should put that money in a quality 650-750W PSU. Is there something wrong with the one I have listed? I'm not very familiar with PSUs as a whole, any advice would be appreciated.
I have never used (or had any experience) with Ultra PSUs. I merely know that they exist so I can't attest to the quality of the PSU. Just saying that PSUs are important really. And that the SpinQ sucks. Get a Hyper 212 from Microcenter!
The 1GB ones should be rolling out early this week.
Hey, I too was hoping could make a computer for SC2. Would like some feedback. I'm really just hoping to get a desktop under $750 that will run it on decent settings perfectly. My friend is willing to sell me his CPU and PSU for 250, but it could only use LGA 1366 socket motherboard.
Comes to $714, which is about what I want to pay. Wouldn't mind cheaper or better recommendations that will keep me in that area. I'd probably keep the game on medium settings anyway.
Edit: Oh, I was just going to steal 2GB of RAM I have in my laptop, and just throw a 512MB I have in the laptop.
Laptop memory does not fit on desktop motherboards, and it seems you haven't budgeted for a graphics card either.
Even at that price for a 920, I find it hard to justify a 1366 build for such a small budget, especially when new i7-930s can be found for $200 at certain retailers.
Games are typically GPU limited, and AMD typically performs better for the same price, especially on low to mid end builds. Coincidentally, anyone spending less than $500 on graphics cards won't need anything above an i5 or phenom ii x4 to avoid being gpu limited, so i7 builds aren't recommended given most people's budgets. I think 480s in SLI (and anything higher) require i7s to avoid being cpu limited, but I'm not completely sure on that.
If you are interested in an i7 build, someone (I think fragkrag) posted one a few pages back, or i could throw something together if you have a particular budget in mind.
I don't have a particular budget. I could throw $1500 at it. I'm looking for primarily a Linux build but I could run windows 7 as well.
The budget and limited funds is one I knew might come into play. The best GPUs out are AMD/ATI right? I was wondering if they might work better with AMD or some technical reason rather than a financial one.
Antec 900 is not a good case for the money. It has trouble with larger HSFs, and you would be better off investing in a better motherboard with an AM3 socket and DDR3 instead of getting that Antec 900.
I would rather see that go into a after market heatsink/better mobo.
At your price range although a case is a good investment, it's not something that should be high on the list of things to prioritize. At the 1k+ i like to see people spend more on a case because likely they can afford one of great size and quality one they will use over and over.
Oh, I mean my current computer is an Intel i7. I could make you an i7 build if given a budget, though I wouldn't recommend spending less than $1200 or so on an i7 build.
Great points on the case; it was definitely a bit overkill... Changed to the Cooler Master 534 and saved 30 bucks =)
One thing I don't understand... What is not so good about the Biostar A785G3? It seems to have most of the functions I needed (PCI-E, DDR1066 support for my RAM, AC3)...
Also, is DDR3 @1600 worth to get more than @1333 right now?
How about this Gokey? By the way, the $30 in promo codes only last for another day. Also, you can fit in a 460 if you insist on AM2 to save money.
Tangeng, there are combo deals quite regularly, you should be able to find comparable ones no matter what. In addition, if you live close to a microcenter, pick up an i7-930 $200.
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned how much ATI Linux driver support blows, or is that not as true anymore? I heard that since AMD acquired ATI, they started pushing towards better driver support (and of course driver development is a slow and difficult process), but Nvidia Linux drivers are probably still a lot better.
Also I think there's probably a lot of diminishing price/performance for CPU/GPU/etc. at the $1000-1500 range, especially considering how fast those parts get outdated. I think a decent SSD and slightly less top-of-the-line CPU/GPU/etc. would be the better value for day-to-day usage. Sure, current SSDs will become outdated too, but SSD random access times are already a couple orders of magnitude better than HDD random access. The difference between SSD and HDD will just go from huge to (slightly more) huge.
I think you want an SSD with TRIM btw, unless there's been some magic developments in SSD technology I don't know about. One caveat: TRIM was integrated in Linux kernel 2.6.33 (according to wiki), which some/many distros aren't up to yet.
On July 18 2010 15:06 nineninja9 wrote: Tangeng, there are combo deals quite regularly, you should be able to find comparable ones no matter what. In addition, if you live close to a microcenter, pick up an i7-930 $200.
On July 18 2010 15:07 Myrmidon wrote: Also I think there's probably a lot of diminishing price/performance for CPU/GPU/etc. at the $1000-1500 range, especially considering how fast those parts get outdated. I think a decent SSD and slightly less top-of-the-line CPU/GPU/etc. would be the better value for day-to-day usage. Sure, current SSDs will become outdated too, but SSD random access times are already a couple orders of magnitude better than HDD random access. The difference between SSD and HDD will just go from huge to (slightly more) huge.
I'm considering an SSD for my build. I'm also considering a GTX 470. I'm just thinking that the fermi architecture might be something I want to play with.
How about this Gokey? By the way, the $30 in promo codes only last for another day. Also, you can fit in a 460 if you insist on AM2 to save money.
Tangeng, there are combo deals quite regularly, you should be able to find comparable ones no matter what. In addition, if you live close to a microcenter, pick up an i7-930 $200.
Thanks for the suggestions!
Questions:
1. Do you or anyone know whether the 32mb hard drive cache in the 1TB Samsung Spinpoint makes a huge difference over the 16mb hard drive cache in the 500GB Spinpoint?
2. Also, is DDR3 1600 much faster than DDR3 1333 in DDR3 right now?
3. Lastly, the 400W power supply doesn't seem to be enough?
On July 18 2010 14:14 TanGeng wrote: I'm looking at 1000-1500 for the box unless there is already an extreme amount of diminishing bang for the buck at that price.
If I were you I would throw 2 GTX 460 1GB in SLI with an i7 930. Best bang for the buck combo atm that fits in your budget.
Gokey: Cache tends to serve very little purpose other than sequential reads/writes. DDR3 1600 vs 1333 makes almost no difference.
On July 18 2010 15:31 FragKrag wrote: If I were you I would throw 2 GTX 460 1GB in SLI with an i7 930. Best bang for the buck combo atm that fits in your budget.
Nice suggestion. I was just thinking that the PCI-e was going to be a bottleneck. Having two of them would work nicely, but I've thought that SLI wasn't implemented optimally. Maybe it has improved.
Thanks for help FragKrag and nineninja and semantics and everyone... I feel like I'm coming to deciding on the final build now...
1. I do like the BioStar mobo... It has all the basics I need (DDR3 1333, AM3, PCI-E 2.0...). Only thing it's missing is USB 3.0 and that it has only 2 memory slots...
2. The other thing I'm a little worried about is whether the processor (Athlon II 635) is lagging a bit and may be outdated too soon? (although this is a min-max budget build...)
3. Also, any tips on how to save on the Operating System? I think I can transfer an old Vista or XP operating system to this computer without spending $100 on Windows 7. I've done it a while ago, by calling Microsoft and saying I replaced a hard drive and needed to have the Windows unique key replaced... Although, if you guys think Windows 7 is worth the $100, maybe I'll buy it?...
Gokey, 400W is fine as long as you aren't planning on xfiring in the future. Considering the motherboard you picked out only has a single pci2 slot, I assumed you weren't planning on it.
I'd personally go with a 480. Even though 2x 460 outperforms a 480 for slightly less, I think throwing in another 480 later on as an upgrade is simpler than 4x sli with the 460, not to mention single cards can avoid the random issues that seem to pop up with multi card configurations. I guess it also saves him the trouble of getting SLI to work on Linux, but they are admittedly all minor issues. I guess my point is if he's doing an i7 build, I don't think bang for buck is as high of a priority for him, and it's easier to upgrade a single card.
If you're a college student you can get a ~70% discount on Windows 7. If you're in a computer-related major and your school has signed up for it, you can get Windows 7 for free.
That's what I'm doing once I enter college this Fall.
Right now I'm using a legal 90 day trial of Windows 7 Enterprise until then.
Why are you spending $18 more on RAM than you have to? Is it because you don't trust ram without heatspreaders for some reason?
Similarly, if you're willing to spend $18 more on RAM for a rather arbitrary reason, why do you prefer to save $5 on a motherboard, and lose the ability to use 2 extra RAM slots, an extra PCI lane, and USB3 support? Especially with a 550W PSU, which is enough to power 2 5770s for a future upgrade as long as you don't go crazy with extra hard drives and overclocking.
Athlons are a bit outdated, but you aren't risking bottlenecking your cpu with one so it's not a bad choice if you want to save some money.
R04R has already pointed out a nice combo with your psu and hard drive, so that's a nice way to save some money.
And like FragKrag said, the difference in hard drive cache is minimal for the average user.
On July 18 2010 15:47 nineninja9 wrote: Gokey, 400W is fine as long as you aren't planning on xfiring in the future. Considering the motherboard you picked out only has a single pci2 slot, I assumed you weren't planning on it.
I'd personally go with a 480. Even though 2x 460 outperforms a 480 for slightly less, I think throwing in another 480 later on as an upgrade is simpler than 4x sli with the 460, not to mention single cards can avoid the random issues that seem to pop up with multi card configurations. I guess it also saves him the trouble of getting SLI to work on Linux, but they are admittedly all minor issues. I guess my point is if he's doing an i7 build, I don't think bang for buck is as high of a priority for him, and it's easier to upgrade a single card.
Though the SLI GTX 460 will net him better performance at the moment for less heat consumption and lower temps. It seems like a win-win situation to me. The GTX 460 SLI solutions should hold very well for the next couple years so there shouldn't be a need to upgrade.
TanGeng: SLI scaling is an absolute beauty. It approaches 90% in just about every game :>
Thanks for finding the HD + PSU combo!! That's awesome...
I wish the OCZ + GPU combo was good too... But reading the reviews of the OCZ ram, it seems that it only works with Intel i-series CPUs (there are a TON of negative reviews of the OCZ Platinum 1333 RAM...
555BE is a great buy if you manage to unlock the extra cores, but the problem with the 555BE is that it is never a guaranteed unlock. Overclocking a disabled core isn't a very good idea most of the time because it was probably locked for voltage leaks that are above spec. A Quad core will carry him through further than a dual core :>
Yes, OCZ DDR3 has become notorious for its failures on the AMD platforms :<
On July 18 2010 16:18 FragKrag wrote: Though the SLI GTX 460 will net him better performance at the moment for less heat consumption and lower temps. It seems like a win-win situation to me. The GTX 460 SLI solutions should hold very well for the next couple years so there shouldn't be a need to upgrade.
TanGeng: SLI scaling is an absolute beauty. It approaches 90% in just about every game :>
He's already forking over cash for a 1366 build, so I'm just saying that if he's going to upgrade in 1-2 years, a 480 makes it simpler. I don't think anyone with an i7 can honestly say that price per performance or heat is one of their higher priorities.
I've heard that OCZ RAM is fairly mediocre, but I have no personal experience with it.
On July 18 2010 16:14 nineninja9 wrote: Why are you spending $18 more on RAM than you have to? Is it because you don't trust ram without heatspreaders for some reason?
Similarly, if you're willing to spend $18 more on RAM for a rather arbitrary reason, why do you prefer to save $5 on a motherboard, and lose the ability to use 2 extra RAM slots, an extra PCI lane, and USB3 support? Especially with a 550W PSU, which is enough to power 2 5770s for a future upgrade as long as you don't go crazy with extra hard drives and overclocking.
I was thinking the Ripjaw ones had latency 7-7-7-21 as opposed to the 9-9-9-24 of the $81 ones, and plus the heat sink... Dunno, maybe it doesn't make a difference? I'm not sure...
Which mobo are you talking about that is only 5 bucks more?
I'm using the OCZ RAM that I suggested on my AMD PC and I haven't had any errors so far. \(O_o)/
The latencies are nice but it also has more voltage. They just overclocked it for you.
Edit: All-in-all though most RAM after a certain speed around 1066 is fine. Any more and it's usually a diminishing return (which isn't bang-for-buck )
If you look up some benchmarks, you'll see that faster RAM has maybe a 1% difference in games. I personally don't think it's worth a 15% or so premium, but you may have some other use for your computer that makes it relevant.
The motherboard I posted on the last page is $5 more expensive after the promo code and mail in rebate. Of course these types of rebates are always somewhat questionable, so if you say that it costs $25 more, I guess it seems less reasonable.
EDIT: I think lower latency also makes overclocking easier? But then you'd probably want to consider an extra $30 on a heatsink, so again the cost/benefit is kind of hard to determine.
Low latency ram helps certain types of applications. Usually, you'd only care about throughput. In an OS environment it's multi-threaded and time sliced anyways. If you stall for memory fetch from RAM, the processor can try to move onto another thread or another program. The ram latencies are always tiny when compared to the huge cycles in navigating the cache architecture and then doing the memory fetch.
They get more important if you have real time computing requirements.
On July 18 2010 16:18 FragKrag wrote: Though the SLI GTX 460 will net him better performance at the moment for less heat consumption and lower temps. It seems like a win-win situation to me. The GTX 460 SLI solutions should hold very well for the next couple years so there shouldn't be a need to upgrade.
TanGeng: SLI scaling is an absolute beauty. It approaches 90% in just about every game :>
He's already forking over cash for a 1366 build, so I'm just saying that if he's going to upgrade in 1-2 years, a 480 makes it simpler. I don't think anyone with an i7 can honestly say that price per performance or heat is one of their higher priorities.
I've heard that OCZ RAM is fairly mediocre, but I have no personal experience with it.
Good to know SLI is working well now. I'm going with the top line Fermi. What the hell.
hi I'm a computer newbie, but i put together some parts for a PC:
Intel Celeron E3300 2,4GHz FSB 800 2GB DDR3 1333 MHz nVIDIA GF9500 GT 1024MB DDR2 128 bit HDD 250GB-S-ATA + the rest of the stuff you need for a pc to work
and a Filtek F288 headphone-microphone as a gift
it costs me 360$ (291 + VAT), i think it's a pretty good deal
6gb/s are lies. They're capable of reaching that speed if you Raid 0 them (right?) but aren't significantly faster by themselves when compared to say Samsung Spinpoint F3s.
So, you'll saved about 40-50 just getting F3s
I don't know about Intel building so I'll leave that to someone else.
On July 18 2010 17:50 R04R wrote: 6gb/s are lies. They're capable of reaching that speed if you Raid 0 them (right?) but aren't significantly faster by themselves when compared to say Samsung Spinpoint F3s.
So, you'll saved about 40-50 just getting F3s
I don't know about Intel building so I'll leave that to someone else.
Yes, 6gb/s is completely useless for mechanical drives. RAID 0 is suicide for the normal user (basically everyone here) so why even bother risking data loss for a small increase in speed.
On July 18 2010 12:02 FragKrag wrote: Very easy question to answer:
Get a GTX 460 1GB at around $230
Ditch the Thermaltake SpinQ. It sucks. I would suggest buying a cheaper heatsink (or not buying one at all) and investing that money in a quality 650-750W PSU since you will be putting a large load on your PSU.
Thermaltake these days are simply awful. Can't even say that their stuff is cheap because it generally isn't.
Hey guys, I just recently built this computer. My goal was to run SC2 on ultra settings for as cheap as possible. I'm not computer illiterate, however my knowledge is not in the advanced category. So I read a few articles and brushed up on some research before compiling this list. I'm currently running my build, and its worked flawlessly, not a single problem to this date. The idea of the build is to use a triple core processor, as opposed to the more expensive quad core, due to the fact that many, if not all, games that are currently out do not utilize the 4th core. This alone saves you $75-100.
Note, these are the bare essentials. You will still need a power supply, a hard drive, and DVD-ROM. But if you are building a computer, chances are you most likely have these lying around somewhere, waiting to be put into this cheap power rig.
On July 18 2010 17:50 R04R wrote: 6gb/s are lies. They're capable of reaching that speed if you Raid 0 them (right?) but aren't significantly faster by themselves when compared to say Samsung Spinpoint F3s.
So, you'll saved about 40-50 just getting F3s
I don't know about Intel building so I'll leave that to someone else.
I suspected as much. Ok I'm replacing them with the F3s.
Here's a "cheap" build that can actually run SC2 on ultra at 1920x1200. An extra $100 will get you a psu, case, and HDD, assuming you don't just have those laying around. If I dropped down to athlon, I'd beat your build by ~$30, and still be able to run SC2 on ultra.
On July 18 2010 23:39 AmbitiousNub wrote: AmbitiousNub's Sub $500 Starcraft 2 Ultra Build
Hey guys, I just recently built this computer. My goal was to run SC2 on ultra settings for as cheap as possible. I'm not computer illiterate, however my knowledge is not in the advanced category. So I read a few articles and brushed up on some research before compiling this list. I'm currently running my build, and its worked flawlessly, not a single problem to this date. The idea of the build is to use a triple core processor, as opposed to the more expensive quad core, due to the fact that many, if not all, games that are currently out do not utilize the 4th core. This alone saves you $75-100.
Note, these are the bare essentials. You will still need a power supply, a hard drive, and DVD-ROM. But if you are building a computer, chances are you most likely have these lying around somewhere, waiting to be put into this cheap power rig.
a triple core will not run a game equal to a quad core. there is so much more that went into that quad core besides the extra core that just makes it that much better than a trip core.
This is not to say that triple cores are not a good value buy, they are actually excellent for cheap builds.
Your case and motherboard are too much for what you are trying to achieve. As nineninja9 posted, making use of combo deals can greatly lower your cost allowing you to upgrade to a quad core and even a much better GPU.
I would doubt that your build could even run Ultra at 1680x1050.
On July 18 2010 23:39 AmbitiousNub wrote: AmbitiousNub's Sub $500 Starcraft 2 Ultra Build
Hey guys, I just recently built this computer. My goal was to run SC2 on ultra settings for as cheap as possible. I'm not computer illiterate, however my knowledge is not in the advanced category. So I read a few articles and brushed up on some research before compiling this list. I'm currently running my build, and its worked flawlessly, not a single problem to this date. The idea of the build is to use a triple core processor, as opposed to the more expensive quad core, due to the fact that many, if not all, games that are currently out do not utilize the 4th core. This alone saves you $75-100.
Note, these are the bare essentials. You will still need a power supply, a hard drive, and DVD-ROM. But if you are building a computer, chances are you most likely have these lying around somewhere, waiting to be put into this cheap power rig.
a triple core will not run a game equal to a quad core. there is so much more that went into that quad core besides the extra core that just makes it that much better than a trip core.
This is not to say that triple cores are not a good value buy, they are actually excellent for cheap builds.
Your case and motherboard are too much for what you are trying to achieve. As nineninja9 posted, making use of combo deals can greatly lower your cost allowing you to upgrade to a quad core and even a much better GPU.
I would doubt that your build could even run Ultra at 1680x1050.
a triple core will perform nearly exactly the same in sc2 as a similar quad. sc2 as far as i know is still not threaded for quads and even if they are the advantage is minimal. i don't think you fully understand the article you linked. the conclusion says that clearly an X3 440 won't match a i7 920 in high-end GPU setups but that's because the i7 920 retails for $200 (and they spent a total of $600 on graphics) more than the 440. if you were to compare an X4 640 to an X3 440 you'd see the extra money you pay would make almost no difference in the end.
however, i echo the sentiment that if you want to run 1680x1050 at ultra in gigantic 4v4s then you might want to consider upgrading your graphics card. other than that the build looks fine.
On July 18 2010 23:39 AmbitiousNub wrote: AmbitiousNub's Sub $500 Starcraft 2 Ultra Build
Hey guys, I just recently built this computer. My goal was to run SC2 on ultra settings for as cheap as possible. I'm not computer illiterate, however my knowledge is not in the advanced category. So I read a few articles and brushed up on some research before compiling this list. I'm currently running my build, and its worked flawlessly, not a single problem to this date. The idea of the build is to use a triple core processor, as opposed to the more expensive quad core, due to the fact that many, if not all, games that are currently out do not utilize the 4th core. This alone saves you $75-100.
Note, these are the bare essentials. You will still need a power supply, a hard drive, and DVD-ROM. But if you are building a computer, chances are you most likely have these lying around somewhere, waiting to be put into this cheap power rig.
a triple core will not run a game equal to a quad core. there is so much more that went into that quad core besides the extra core that just makes it that much better than a trip core.
This is not to say that triple cores are not a good value buy, they are actually excellent for cheap builds.
Your case and motherboard are too much for what you are trying to achieve. As nineninja9 posted, making use of combo deals can greatly lower your cost allowing you to upgrade to a quad core and even a much better GPU.
I would doubt that your build could even run Ultra at 1680x1050.
That article by Tomhardware is the most stupid thing i have read in a long long while.
Athlon II X3 + 2x5870 is CPU limited !!!!! ORLYYYYY ????? This is a terrible article adressing the wrong issues and/or stating the obvious.
The Athlon II x3 is the best thing for gaming at < 100$. I7 and Phenom II aren't in the same category duh. The Athlon II x4 are slightly more expensive and aren't really better for gaming.
However i think you are right about the case and maybe the mobo. He can save some $ and get a better GPU. I have a 4870 and i can't run the game well in High / full HD ( small freezes in battles ). I think a 5770 or something more powerful could help more than a cool case :p
The sole thing that article is trying to address is the fact that high end graphics are cpu limited by the athlon ii x3, that's all. It's a fairly obvious point, but it's never detrimental to have some concrete proof.
Basically, the article says "We decided to run a series of tests to really explore whether or not there's any point in investing in a CPU more powerful than the Athlon II X3 440 for gaming duty." And yes, if you have high end graphics, there is a point in investing in a better cpu, which again was the entire point of the article.
My build wasn't supposed to imply that a 955 was in any way required for games, it was simply to show that you could easily build a better system, that actually did what his build claimed to, at essentially the same price. It doesn't take an idiot to realize that you can replace the phenom x4 with an athlon x3, save $80, and then you get a significantly cheaper build that also manages to run SC2 more effectively than what was posted by ambitiousnub.
EDIT: I still don't believe that a 5770 outperforms a 4870. Maybe in SC2 specifically, according to some benchmarks, but overall I still think the 4870 is a more powerful card. I haven't had any problems running sc2 on ultra at 1920x1080 with a 4870, but I also have an i7 build, so it's not a particularly straightforward comparison.
Personally i've changed my recommendation of minimum for a pc to run sc2 on ultra 955 if you oc else i5-750 plz oc! haha At-least 4 gigs of ram And a GTX 460 as the 5770 has shown to have problems maintaining 60fps at 1920x1080 Although i haven't seen specific benches the 460 is stronger vs a 5770 and cost similar to 5830 but requires less power is cooler and is still a strong all around performer for not drastically more.
SC2 may not be threaded for more then 2 cores but those 2 cores don't just idle there are techniques windows 7 and other crap uses to put those cores into action, although the benefit may not be as great as the first 2 cores, number 3 and 4 do add more fps and security
I don't think I need to say much more about gaming purposes, but let's just flesh out what you might want to fast core or more cores for. In fact we can talk about what you might want any part for.
GPUs For GPUs there is the gaming and graphics world and then there is the GPGPU/physics world. For graphics the primary mode of operation is simply sending data over to the hardware having it do a lot of computations for rendering and then pushing video out the video connector out to the monitor. When anyone talks about beautiful visuals, high resolution, DX11, or frame rates, it's primarily talking about GPU performance.
There are some limitations though. A GPU cannot compute unless it's fed the data. There is only one option for this - PCI-e 2.0 @ theoretical of 10.0 GB/s bidirectional throughput. The GPU can only work on as much data as it can keep around or it will have to swap data in and out of graphics memory with system memory. The swap is on the order of a 100 times worse. This is why you might want more GPU memory.
For the GPGPU world the challenges are about the same, but the GPGPU programmers might care about ECC offered by nVidia's Fermi series. Graphics people will simply laugh at the idea of ECC. Graphical anomalies caused by background radiation are nearly unnoticeable. GPGPU crowd might also care about significant bidirectional traffic over the PCI-e 2.0 bus, but there is simply not a lot of choices available. It's PCI-e 2.0 or nothing. PCI-e 2.0 put a ceiling on how good GPUs can get before there is no more possible benefit.
And without going into too much detail about GPU architecture, the bottleneck for most GPU applications is its memory system. So pay some careful attention to the width of the memory bus, its clock rate, and the type of GPU memory (like GGDR5).
Just ordered this off newegg last night after a few days of research:
SAPPHIRE VAPOR-X Radeon 5770 AMD Phenom II x4 955 BE ROSEWILL CHALLENGER Mid Tower Case Western Digital 500GB 7200 RPM HD ASUS M4A77TD AM3 ATX Mobo OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W G.SKILL Eco Series 4 GB (2x2) DDR3 1600 ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm LITE-ON DVD/ CD Writer/ Reader EDIMAX PCI Wireless Card
With the promotional savings that end tomorrow, I get 46 dollars off and then an additional 50 dollars off in eventual rebates, so the final cost is like $662.
I was going for a budget build in the 600s that would last me a while, will probably do overclocking eventually and get some more 120mm fans. Now I just have to wait for the parts and hope it works fine when I build (my first computer).
Oh I purchased my set up. I think it's going to come out to 1850 or so with all the other peripherals that I added and I still don't have a dual port DVI KVM.
Just ordered this off newegg last night after a few days of research:
SAPPHIRE VAPOR-X Radeon 5770 AMD Phenom II x4 955 BE ROSEWILL CHALLENGER Mid Tower Case Western Digital 500GB 7200 RPM HD ASUS M4A77TD AM3 ATX Mobo OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W G.SKILL Eco Series 4 GB (2x2) DDR3 1600 ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm LITE-ON DVD/ CD Writer/ Reader EDIMAX PCI Wireless Card
With the promotional savings that end tomorrow, I get 46 dollars off and then an additional 50 dollars off in eventual rebates, so the final cost is like $662.
I was going for a budget build in the 600s that would last me a while, will probably do overclocking eventually and get some more 120mm fans. Now I just have to wait for the parts and hope it works fine when I build (my first computer).
You could have saved ~$25 comboing your PSU with a 500gb Samsung Spinpoint F3. You also could have saved another $15-20 choosing a cheaper RAM. Overall it's good.
Any last second tips/comments/warnings are welcome. :3
Do you have an optical drive?
Yeah, I think I can scavenge one from computer from back at parent's house.
I'm pretty happy with the build, with 2 exceptions:
1. With the info given about the GPU max memory speed, should I buy the 4870 instead of the 5770? Will the lack of DirectX 11 support matter a lot in the next couple of years?
2. I didn't get a name brand Power Supply... A bit of a risk I know =\
Just ordered this off newegg last night after a few days of research:
SAPPHIRE VAPOR-X Radeon 5770 AMD Phenom II x4 955 BE ROSEWILL CHALLENGER Mid Tower Case Western Digital 500GB 7200 RPM HD ASUS M4A77TD AM3 ATX Mobo OCZ Fatal1ty OCZ550FTY 550W G.SKILL Eco Series 4 GB (2x2) DDR3 1600 ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro 92mm LITE-ON DVD/ CD Writer/ Reader EDIMAX PCI Wireless Card
With the promotional savings that end tomorrow, I get 46 dollars off and then an additional 50 dollars off in eventual rebates, so the final cost is like $662.
I was going for a budget build in the 600s that would last me a while, will probably do overclocking eventually and get some more 120mm fans. Now I just have to wait for the parts and hope it works fine when I build (my first computer).
You could have saved ~$25 comboing your PSU with a 500gb Samsung Spinpoint F3. You also could have saved another $15-20 choosing a cheaper RAM. Overall it's good.
Damn I guess I should've checked all the items some more. I'll have to keep combo deals in mind for next time...
EDIT: Only lost 9 bucks in savings though, since the promos on my HD and PSU was like 26 dollars off total, so they totaled 108.98, while the combo costs 99.98 - not too bad.
I've got another quick question. I was searching through Newegg deals and I found this motherboard. With the 200 dollar i7 930 from MicroCenter the total price for the mobo/CPU would be the same as the combo I found. So I'd like to know, which mobo is better?
Be careful about open box components, especially if it's your first time building a computer. If something is wrong with it (which is obviously more likely with an open box), you might have trouble figuring out what the problem is. Also there's likely some cables missing, which again shouldn't matter if you've built one before and have spares laying around, but you might need to buy extra cables.
Wow, that Gigabyte one is 30 less than the one I got for pretty much the same feature set. The only downside is that by the reviews it received, it's slightly less reliable than the ASUS comparable. The links is here:
Your open box one doesn't have any of the SATA 6.0 (no available devices yet) or USB 3.0 (available devices?)
On July 19 2010 06:12 Gokey wrote: Yeah, I think I can scavenge one from computer from back at parent's house.
I'm pretty happy with the build, with 2 exceptions:
1. With the info given about the GPU max memory speed, should I buy the 4870 instead of the 5770? Will the lack of DirectX 11 support matter a lot in the next couple of years?
About this. Software support is more important than possible performance. Without the software, the hardware does nothing. Better software support by ATI is part of what you are purchasing.
I haven't followed the gaming world enough to know about DX 11 adoption. It's probably going to be slow. That stuff is harder than it looks.
HD4870 (because of the packaging) is a power-hog. That might reduce the lifetime on your GPU, but you'll buy another before that happens.
Ah, thanks. This is my first time building so I don't think I'll risk it, I'll see if I can pick up the combo at Fry's some time this week. I was thinking the ASUS wasn't as good as the Gigabyte (especially open box), but I wasn't sure.
On July 19 2010 08:19 Craton wrote: Is there any expectation of a price drop on i5's or i7's in the next few months? Few things I've come across says its unlikely.
there was rumor about an i5-760 coming out but that's just a 750 with an increased multiplier and will end up replacing it. same price but more performance!
Factory overclocked for $15 more, not a particularly good deal. Maybe they're binned better. Even then, i7-930 is $200 some places.
Rumors say the i7-950 will replace the 930 at the $290 price point, but all I've come across is hearsay.
EDIT: Oh right i5-760 is using 32nm architecture, so they probably will be more efficient and overclock slightly better. Actually on second glance it might not really be using 32nm, I can't find another source confirming it other than newegg.
EDIT2: Actually the 760 is still 45nm, never mind. Newegg is either lying or misinformed. Basically the 750/760 is like the 920/930, same chip, higher multiplier.
Err... what do you want for CPU? Prices are probably not going to fluctuate anytime soon at the $100 price point. And RAM you could possibly combo them to make them $70, but 80-90 is the cheapest around.
I doubt you're going to overclock to the point where heatspreaders are necessary for RAM. Not to mention that some heatspreaders are so poorly designed that they end up making the RAM run warmer.
What do you want the 120 Hz for? If you want less ghosting and more smoothness, most 120 Hz monitors deliver this by increasing the frame buffer and interpolating between frames, etc. to insert extra frames between the original 60 frames a second. This increases the display latency, which isn't desirable, particularly for gaming.
The Asus VH236H is a pretty good budget 23" 1920x1080 TFT panel display. It's usually around $180. For the price and size it has really good response time and display latency (average is less than 1/60th of a second). Of course, more expensive monitors may have better swiveling/color accuracy/display quality/other features, but that's often at the expense of display latency and/or response time anyhow.
I'm having a hard time finding any 120HZ monitors that aren't incredibly expensive and have a resolution of 1920x1080. If I had to recommend a monitor I'd probably go with the asus ms228h, mostly because it's an affordable monitor with LED backlighting.
I personally have a vh236h, and while I think it's a pretty decent monitor, there's some noticeable backlight bleed along the edges which is rather disappointing.
The Acer GD235HZ seems like a fairly affordable 1080p 120hz monitor, but apparently the picture quality isn't great.
This is what I'm currently thinking of ordering. My budget is currently $900~ and this currently ends up being $919.39 after taxes and shipping cost. I was thinking if anyone had any second opinions on this.
The mobo supports 1600 as OC... Not sure if it's worth it if it's like that...
Also, the mobo has "Core Unlocking", whatever that means... (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130275)... Is this usually a difficult/risky process?
Unlocking is easy. You just select enable Core Unlocking and then your computer restarts. If it unlocked you're good to go. Even if they do unlock they might be unstable though. So trial and error is the way to go.
On July 19 2010 11:43 Lanyth wrote: This is what I'm currently thinking of ordering. My budget is currently $900~ and this currently ends up being $919.39 after taxes and shipping cost. I was thinking if anyone had any second opinions on this.
You can cut costs by selecting a cheaper model of RAM. Also you can pair up the Spinpoint F3 with a 550w Fatal1ty PSU and save some more.
What did you pair your 955 with? Did you try this?
Same stuff, a bit cheaper overall. If you're really set on the cm692 you can get it.
Gokey: L3 cache makes the phenom series a bit speedier overall. Basically the way a processor works is if it doesn't have access to required data in registers, it goes to cache, then memory (RAM), then to the hard disk. Since cache is faster than getting data from memory, a third level of cache means your system wastes less time reading from RAM. I'd explain it more in depth but I'm a bit lazy to.
Tom's Hardware doesn't have the Phenom II 555 or the Athlon II 635... But comparing the Phenom 550 and the Athlon 630 (which should be similar?), the Athlon 630 destroys the Phenom 550 in almost every benchmark... Hmm
Many benchmarks are highly multithreaded, which means the quadcore athlon will beat a dual core phenom. Games generally don't use more than 2 cores, and in those situations I'm fairly certain a dual core phenom will perform better.
What's the % chance of unlocking cores on the Phenom 555 BE? And are there any ways to maximze the chance, or is it entirely on how it was manufactured?
Gokey: It's entirely how they're manufactured. The 555 BEs originally started as 955s, but if the 955s had faulty cores they would be turned into 555s to make up the loss. If that was the only way 555s were manufactured there obviously wouldn't be enough 555s in the market. There are also some 955s that are perfectly fine but are turned into 555s.
AMD doesn't manufacture the 555 chip because that would require a completely different assembly line, so they just disable cores on the 955.
Maybe try and work this combo RAM+Mobo into your build? It's the same one as we get in the states, and I still think it's a very good deal. It's a shame you guys get so few cpu/gpu combos, but I think the $39 savings on this combo is still the better choice overall.
On July 19 2010 12:42 nineninja9 wrote: Can't believe I missed that, my mistake Lanyth.
Maybe try and work this combo RAM+Mobo into your build? It's the same one as we get in the states, and I still think it's a very good deal. It's a shame you guys get so few cpu/gpu combos, but I think the $39 savings on this combo is still the better choice overall.
Yeah, I think I'll go with that the RAM isn't much different and I can save more money than the CPU + Mobo combo before. Thanks.
On July 19 2010 09:48 FragKrag wrote: heatspreaders really aren't all that useful if you don't plan on pushing the ram.
in general for ddr3 they aren't that useful most of the times the micro layer used to thinly cover them works just fine., but it's an ascetic choice for alot of ram makers.
yeah, it works to some degree too. I wouldn't have any trouble putting down an extra $40 for some Corsair Dominator heatsinks (though the ICs in the Dominators are probably superior as well) because they are pretty fucking sexy.
Just my personal opinion for Canadian consumers, even since newegg now has a Canadian site, www.ncix.com has always been better whenever I needed computer parts and such.
So I've been looking into self-contained CPU water-coolers, but I've been having trouble finding good benchmarking articles to get a handle on which actually perform better than high-end air cooling.
is one of the better sites for heatsink reviews. Craton, most reviews find that self contained water cooling performs about on par with (or a little better/worse than) high end air cooling like the Megahalems.
On July 19 2010 13:59 Craton wrote: So I've been looking into self-contained CPU water-coolers, but I've been having trouble finding good benchmarking articles to get a handle on which actually perform better than high-end air cooling.
well it usually depends on the type of fan that you have for the coolers. Some heatsinks react very well to high static pressure while others prefer CFM. Really hard to actually distinguish the heatsinks when you're only using a set amount of fans.
On July 20 2010 09:13 R04R wrote: Is DDR1333 supposed to be clocked at 666Mhz? I'm running memtest right now and RAM at a time and it says it's at 666.
Update while typing: Lol it just said it failed a huge amount of tests.
On July 20 2010 11:09 nineninja9 wrote: Well nvidia had to get something right this gen. Maybe this will drive down prices on ati cards before 6xxx come out.
nvidia got plenty right, just got a lot wrong as well. 6XXX is going to be uninteresting for the most part
Admittedly they do have the best performing cards this gen, but efficiency and the fact that they had very few choices for the <$300 market was unfortunate.
I think 6xxx is still 40nm architecture, so it's hard to expect any significant performance improvements.
6xxx has already came out for nvidia :D haha, 6xxx isn't a major revision it's just another step in ati's crap about production, die shrinking etc over arch of the gpu, likely just being another minor revision worked well for them, but the 5xxx->6xxx isn't too interesting it's still going to be 40nm and not that much of a tweak. Nvidia was interesting this around because of a from scratch arch which due to manufacture problems and still not that mature drivers will a year probably before optimizations get really in there nvidia still boasts a more promising product. Although likely by late next year ATI will try to get a 28nm revision of their product out there.
What's sad is it's clear Nvidia has been working on SC2 drivers, in-fact awhile back they had one during beta phase 1 clearly meant just for the beta.
So now there is a small terrain detail and the x4AA that nvidia cards get along with the stronger overall performance.
I thought ATI may be working with blizzard on drivers because with the release of 10.6 the problem of missing graphics on ati cards went away according to blizzard tech support.
The 460 is the clear winning in recommending for ultra settings in sc2 currently.
It's why Nvidia products can generally be worth their price premium. The benefit of the drivers that enhances gaming performance, and superior SLI scaling along with more game devs working with Nvidia.
Wow, that Fermi GPU architecture so much better than before it's is unfair. No wonder it's so much better. I'd estimated that it's about twice as efficient with its memory and compute scheduling than previous generations of GPUs.
Previous GPUs were all massive massive hammers you could throw at any graphics problem. But it didn't matter if you had a massive problem or just one tiny nail. So it was really inefficient with the odd small task that would make the GPU waste over 80% of its cycles. It's also got multi-layer caches like the CPUs and that saves on taxing the memory system.
Fermi is a step towards a physics engine and GPGPU and a large away from pure graphics acceleration, but that has to make the Fermi drivers a lot easier to program / optimize / get performance out of. Damn.
It's no secret that GPUs have been moving towards the idea of CPUs for a long time now. The new GF104 apparently also incorporates superscalar architecture which I don't think has ever been used in a GPU before. CUDA was already a step in the direction of GPGPU and ATI Stream is going for the same idea.
Not sure what you mean by physics engine since Nvidia has been pushing their dedicated PhysX stuff for as long as anybody can remember.
it may be a very impressive gpgpu arch and has a benefit of running dx11 due to that, but it still needs to be refine and properly spun during making the chip, lower the gate leakage and die size so it competes with ATI in terms of realestate and then it has something.
The arch shows promise much more then the heavily recycled R600 which is what all ATI chips are based on past the HD2000.
On July 20 2010 14:05 FragKrag wrote: It's no secret that GPUs have been moving towards the idea of CPUs for a long time now. The new GF104 apparently also incorporates superscalar architecture which I don't think has ever been used in a GPU before. CUDA was already a step in the direction of GPGPU and ATI Stream is going for the same idea.
Not sure what you mean by physics engine since Nvidia has been pushing their dedicated PhysX stuff for as long as anybody can remember.
Just because they market it doesn't mean that it's any good, or even correct. If I remember correctly, they were getting answers fast but the answers could often be wrong. This time they got their math a bit more accurate, it's no longer an unreliable answer.
On July 20 2010 14:06 semantics wrote: it may be a very impressive gpgpu arch and has a benefit of running dx11 due to that, but it still needs to be refine and properly spun during making the chip, lower the gate leakage and die size so it competes with ATI in terms of realestate and then it has something.
The arch shows promise much more then the heavily recycled R600 which is what all ATI chips are based on past the HD2000.
That may be true, but chances are Nvidia is making more money per gpu than ATI anyways since ATI is always going to be pressured to lower prices. I never understood why Nvidia insisted on crafting these super massive GPUs. Nvidia's SLI scaling and drivers are still a level above ATI's and they could easily rely on SLI scaling to cover the high end like ATI was doing with CrossFire RV770, except much more efficiently.
GF104 is in the right direction though. 1.95 billion instead of that massive 3 billion :>. Performs amazing and we still haven't seen the full potential because TSMC sucks at 40nm ;_;
On July 20 2010 14:05 FragKrag wrote: It's no secret that GPUs have been moving towards the idea of CPUs for a long time now. The new GF104 apparently also incorporates superscalar architecture which I don't think has ever been used in a GPU before. CUDA was already a step in the direction of GPGPU and ATI Stream is going for the same idea.
Not sure what you mean by physics engine since Nvidia has been pushing their dedicated PhysX stuff for as long as anybody can remember.
Just because they market it doesn't mean that it's any good, or even correct. If I remember correctly, they were getting answers fast but the answers could often be wrong. This time they got their math a bit more accurate, it's no longer an unreliable answer.
I believe this would be a driver issue, and not an issue with the GPU itself. Unless you're referring to the double precision accuracy (which has been crippled in GF104 and GT200 had) or ECC (which GF104 lacks completely).
Gokey: It's entirely how they're manufactured. The 555 BEs originally started as 955s, but if the 955s had faulty cores they would be turned into 555s to make up the loss. If that was the only way 555s were manufactured there obviously wouldn't be enough 555s in the market. There are also some 955s that are perfectly fine but are turned into 555s.
AMD doesn't manufacture the 555 chip because that would require a completely different assembly line, so they just disable cores on the 955.
so when you buy a 555 for the purpose of trying to get the extra cores, it's basically a lottery to see whether you are able to unlock the extra cores or not?
yeah GTR. The cores can be disabled for any number of reasons. Out of spec voltage leaks, completely disfunctional cores, etc. I've heard of Athlon II X3s that unlock into full Phenom IIs and those seem to be the best bets since they are cheap, and if you can't unlock you get a decently powered trip core.
Yeah I got lucky and my new X3 435 unlocked into a full Phenom X4 with the 6mb L3 cache as well. No problems with it at all really, just can't OC ut very much.
is there a way to switch to AHCI mode after installing OS? I have a customized ubuntu installed in IDE mode, got a windows 7 on SSD and I would prefer to change everything to AHCI or RAID but everytime i try to change it at BIOS, it would hang at post.
On July 20 2010 14:06 semantics wrote: it may be a very impressive gpgpu arch and has a benefit of running dx11 due to that, but it still needs to be refine and properly spun during making the chip, lower the gate leakage and die size so it competes with ATI in terms of realestate and then it has something.
The arch shows promise much more then the heavily recycled R600 which is what all ATI chips are based on past the HD2000.
That may be true, but chances are Nvidia is making more money per gpu than ATI anyways since ATI is always going to be pressured to lower prices. I never understood why Nvidia insisted on crafting these super massive GPUs. Nvidia's SLI scaling and drivers are still a level above ATI's and they could easily rely on SLI scaling to cover the high end like ATI was doing with CrossFire RV770, except much more efficiently.
GF104 is in the right direction though. 1.95 billion instead of that massive 3 billion :>. Performs amazing and we still haven't seen the full potential because TSMC sucks at 40nm ;_;
I thought that the nVidia parts were too big for good yields, so it's probably not a good business for them.
The thing with ATI is that they are really good at packing in those compute engines and not so great at getting the I/O to flow well. They have the right idea in that at the higher quality levels it's more about the compute, but their parts look so much harder to program. My guess is that ATI's software is going to lag behind. If ATI spends a lot of money on software/firmware, they might burn nVidia badly on both benchmarks and visual quality.
I wish I would have read that before I spec'd my friends machine out with a ATI Radeon 5770. I remember thinking "Is the 460 really going to be worth the extra $70? For SC2, probably not...". Oops. Ah well, live and learn. Here's hoping AMD/ATI improves driver performance when the game goes live.
I just got my MSI 1GB GTX 460 and I got lucky. Just tested overclocking last night and I hit 900 Mhz core with 4000 Mhz effective memory on stock voltage of 1.012. My temps are stable at 66C on load, so I am definitely happy with how it came out. Also note that the design of this card basically dumps out all the heat into the case (there is no back exhaust fan), but it does a really good job getting heat away from the GPU. With my setup, I basically have nothing in my case so I have great air circulation and this particular combination worked well.
Alternatively if you're willing to go through Bing Cashback and a bunch of rebates and other such buffoonery, you can get an EVGA GTX 470 for 227 before tax/shipping. If you don't count the price of the coupon books it's 215. But as I said, there's a lot of hoops to jump through. GTX 470
EDIT: Also do you guys think a 1000 Watt PSU would be enough for SLI 470s? Because I can get a 1000 Watt PSU for a little over 100 whereas a cheap 1200 Watt PSU is 170, and is probably pretty shoddy.
Does anyone have any criticisms of this laptop? I am going to purchase this for sc2 and college and was wondering if anyone had anything to say about it.
15.6” FHD 16: 9 LED Backlit Wide screen (1920x1080) Super Clear Glare Type Screen Intel® Core™ i5-540M, 2.53-3.06GHz, (3MB L3 cache) ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD5650 1024MB PCI-Express GDDR3 4,096MB (2 SODIMMS) DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory 500GB 7200RPM 8MB Cache Buffer (Serial-ATA II 3GB/s) $1030
One of my minor concerns is that that the fn key and the ctrl are swapped so the fn key is on the far left. I was wondering if its possible to change this in the BIOS or does sc2 allow you to rebind it to something else like capslock?
On July 21 2010 06:16 1312020 wrote:Also do you guys think a 1000 Watt PSU would be enough for SLI 470s? Because I can get a 1000 Watt PSU for a little over 100 whereas a cheap 1200 Watt PSU is 170, and is probably pretty shoddy.
1000w is enough for SLI, you'd want a bigger psu if you plan on doing tri or quad sli in the future.
EPT
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So the Grand Total would be about $3.630.
With a lesser budget i5 750 / phenom ii 955's are much better for the money of course. I personally play almost every high end game for the hell of it, fuck my 5970 can't even play metro2033 at max so I'm going to be getting a 5850 to tri-fire it D: Also looking forward to Crysis 2, and whatever is coming after Bad Company 2. ![[image loading]](http://lh6.ggpht.com/_F52QCPAQ4mY/TCGz9vT-E5I/AAAAAAAAAWc/RG11mq-jnis/s288/2010-06-23%2017.08.17.jpg)
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