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On February 09 2009 01:28 Atrioc wrote:
You guys.
You guys!
Motherfucking Bisu vs Jaedong Best of 5
with about $8,000 on the line! (depending on the exchange rate by that time)
*Edit*
WITH TASTELESS COMMENTARY
Thanks. This is the first I've seen of what the stakes are. I'm glad money is on the line rather than it just being an exhibition so it's worth preparing for.
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On February 09 2009 02:26 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2009 02:15 Darth Peter wrote:On February 09 2009 02:05 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Bisu is not bonjwa in my opinion for these couple reasons:
He has not dominated long enough.
There are too many players as good as he is.
He is affected by maps. How much do you have to dominate? Bisu won 2 MSL's in a row,was in a Final of another and made it to the semifinals of an OSL. After that,he dominates the scene since October. That's at least one year of domination. What more do you need? And of course there are players just as good right now. But they didn't dominate for so long,they didn't win 4 titles,they are not considered Revolutionists. And with all due respect, his wins aren't that much influenced by the maps. Why can't anybody else besides him and Jangbi win on these maps now if they are so imbalanced? Because they are the best. And Bisu also won on maps which do not favour Protoss over terran or zerg. I am not saying that Bisu should be Bonjwa right now,but if he continues his domination,reaches his new Elo peak and wins the OSL,even in these circumstances,he should be one. But of course,there are haters,who,no matter what he does will say that he doesn't deserve to be Bonjwa. "How much do you have to dominate? Bisu won 2 MSL's in a row,was in a Final of another and made it to the semifinals of an OSL. After that,he dominates the scene since October." The nail in his coffin is his extended absence after his domination, he was no where to be found for a very long time. An extended period of time doesn't have any gaps, he played so helplessly for a good half year. "And of course there are players just as good right now. But they didn't dominate for so long,they didn't win 4 titles,they are not considered Revolutionists." Yes, but people like Savior would consistently beat his "rivals" whenever they met, Bisu still has a under 50% against Flash + JD, that was the point I was making. If I remember correctly, Savior denied many of his rivals titles many, many times (except Chojja), Bisu got knocked out by his rivals many, many times. (Bacchus, GOMS4, Arena). "And with all due respect, his wins aren't that much influenced by the maps. Why can't anybody else besides him and Jangbi win on these maps now if they are so imbalanced? Because they are the best. " He himself said that maps influenced the outcomes of his games. (Interview after losing to by.hero) Savior did not have the same weakness (Shinhan OSL). "But of course,there are haters,who,no matter what he does will say that he doesn't deserve to be Bonjwa." I hope you're not referring to me, my post wasn't laden with hate or anything, since the standard for bonjwa is very high.
Then what do you consider Savior???
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
ipx was so much more dominant than bisu at any point in his career. it is not a discussion.
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Who do you currently consider "on par" with Bisu? Surely not JaeDong who's about 100 (!) Elo below Bisu. Maybe, just very maybe, Flash is 50 points down and was recently beaten by Bisu.
Bisu for bonjaw! Clearly, the best Protoss that ever walked the earth.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
not on par per se, but jaedong would be favored against bisu, and there are a bunch of players who just recently were doing very well. flash, stork etc who were in the spotlight.
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Bisu nr 1 kespa, nr 1 elo, should be nr 1 powerrank aswell imo.
thats pretty good yo
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I have such a hard time thinking of Bisu as bonjwa ever just because of his tendency to drop random games. Like back in his 3 straight MSL finals run, he was still dropping some games randomly in proleague. I never can consider anything as a "freewin" for Bisu because he can lose games to the worse of people at times. And it feels worse every time it happens. Hell, in the last 2 months prior of the MSL and OSL exits, he was playing brilliantly, and showing some consistency in proleague even. And then he loses what I ALMOST considered to be freewins.
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People who say Bisu isn't Bonjwa aren't necessarily Bisu haters. There are some good arguments as to what defines a Bonjwa player from the rest.
A Bonjwa player is a player who, in his prime, is considered untouchable in terms of skill, head and shoulders above the rest to the point where there is a vast chasm between first and second, feared by all competition and whose name itself brings about a certain aura. That is Bonjwa.
Bisu is good yes, one of the best, but he is not head and shoulders above the rest. He hasn't won an OSL yet, and though he managed to hang on in the OSL due to Backho's injury the fact that he was in the wildcard in the first place is indicative of this. Bisu is one of the best, but he is not necessarily the best, and hence the difference between a player who is Bonjwa and one who is not.
And no, I don't hate Bisu, but all the people who are spewing talk of the next "Bonjwa" need to realize that the title is not something to be bandied about. Jaedong, Flash, Best, Leta etc. are all very similar in skill to Bisu and capable of beating Bisu and until Bisu overcomes them in dominant fashion and wins an OSL he cannot be considered "Bonjwa".
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Braavos36402 Posts
i heard Samsung is bringing a new Zerg player onto their team back from retirement
+ Show Spoiler +
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On February 09 2009 04:04 Aurioch wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 09 2009 02:26 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2009 02:15 Darth Peter wrote:On February 09 2009 02:05 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Bisu is not bonjwa in my opinion for these couple reasons:
He has not dominated long enough.
There are too many players as good as he is.
He is affected by maps. How much do you have to dominate? Bisu won 2 MSL's in a row,was in a Final of another and made it to the semifinals of an OSL. After that,he dominates the scene since October. That's at least one year of domination. What more do you need? And of course there are players just as good right now. But they didn't dominate for so long,they didn't win 4 titles,they are not considered Revolutionists. And with all due respect, his wins aren't that much influenced by the maps. Why can't anybody else besides him and Jangbi win on these maps now if they are so imbalanced? Because they are the best. And Bisu also won on maps which do not favour Protoss over terran or zerg. I am not saying that Bisu should be Bonjwa right now,but if he continues his domination,reaches his new Elo peak and wins the OSL,even in these circumstances,he should be one. But of course,there are haters,who,no matter what he does will say that he doesn't deserve to be Bonjwa. "How much do you have to dominate? Bisu won 2 MSL's in a row,was in a Final of another and made it to the semifinals of an OSL. After that,he dominates the scene since October." The nail in his coffin is his extended absence after his domination, he was no where to be found for a very long time. An extended period of time doesn't have any gaps, he played so helplessly for a good half year. "And of course there are players just as good right now. But they didn't dominate for so long,they didn't win 4 titles,they are not considered Revolutionists." Yes, but people like Savior would consistently beat his "rivals" whenever they met, Bisu still has a under 50% against Flash + JD, that was the point I was making. If I remember correctly, Savior denied many of his rivals titles many, many times (except Chojja), Bisu got knocked out by his rivals many, many times. (Bacchus, GOMS4, Arena). "And with all due respect, his wins aren't that much influenced by the maps. Why can't anybody else besides him and Jangbi win on these maps now if they are so imbalanced? Because they are the best. " He himself said that maps influenced the outcomes of his games. (Interview after losing to by.hero) Savior did not have the same weakness (Shinhan OSL). "But of course,there are haters,who,no matter what he does will say that he doesn't deserve to be Bonjwa." I hope you're not referring to me, my post wasn't laden with hate or anything, since the standard for bonjwa is very high. Then what do you consider Savior???
I made many distinctions between Savior's run and Bisu's run and those distinctions make Savior a bonjwa while Bisu is not. I don't understand your post, I already answered your question in my explanations.
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Jangbi totally misplayed when he sacrificed his entire ground forces in his third game. He would've won economically if he just waited instead of trying to destroy that expansion nexus.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On February 09 2009 05:18 Hot_Bid wrote:i heard Samsung is bringing a new Zerg player onto their team back from retirement + Show Spoiler +
o rly?
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On February 09 2009 05:18 Hot_Bid wrote:i heard Samsung is bringing a new Zerg player onto their team back from retirement + Show Spoiler +
OMG please dont tease me HB!! I love that guy!
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Great games   .
And I am really happy that Bisu won   .
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United States12607 Posts
Game 4: WTF!?!?! Bisu's probe + dragoon micro was so godly...no idea how he could hold off that attack. This looked like a straight BO loss.
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Man, all of the games (Except the last) were really close. I thought that Bisu would lose to Jangbi's 4 gate especially because he expo'ed and then got a robo. I guess Bisu's probes are just imbalanced. Bisu really showed how strong a player he is all around and there is no doubt that he will win the OSL or atleast make it in to the Final 4
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BISU YES~~
are the games worth watching? sounds like it was a good series;;
i unfortunately fell asleep during oz vs ktf -___________-
edit: wow just saw the interview
jaedong vs bisu bo5. epic~
and good interview too thanks mrhoon;;; bisu fighting!!
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It's so stupid to argue that Bisu is not a strong candidate for bonjwa. First of all, there cannot be a "true" bonjwa as nowadays, everyone is just so much better and it's so much harder to stay consistently on top. Even then, Bisu has done so much to prove that he is undoubtedly on top of his game. Plus, if any of you could choose anyone to play against, I'm 100% sure you would think twice about Bisu.
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Korea (South)3086 Posts
Holy shit at Bisu's ELO...
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EPT
